This question is probably akin to: "How long is a piece of string?".
However, having done as much research as I reasonably can and with no local
resources to fall back upon I feel compelled to ask this he

If you had to equip a small workshop dealing mainly with hobby manufacture
of small parts, space being at a premium as well as finances, would you:
a) Buy a lathe first
b) Buy a mill first
c) Buy a combination machine

Then, of course, the question is which ones. Here is a current crop of
lathes available on EBay:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=017

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=013

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=017

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=023

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=007

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=012

Forget for a moment issues like shipping from Australia etc. I guess I am
trying to get a better handle on what I should be focusing on in future. I
tried to find courses locally on either milling or lathe but without
success.

For instance if I understood some of the recent threads correctly, a big
lathe is not necessarily the way to go as it will not handle small work.
Then of course the question is how small is big enough etc, etc.

I shall be grateful for any advice.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:01:03 -0700, "Michael Koblic"
wrote:

This question is probably akin to: "How long is a piece of string?".
However, having done as much research as I reasonably can and with no local
resources to fall back upon I feel compelled to ask this he

If you had to equip a small workshop dealing mainly with hobby manufacture
of small parts, space being at a premium as well as finances, would you:
a) Buy a lathe first
b) Buy a mill first
c) Buy a combination machine

Then, of course, the question is which ones. Here is a current crop of
lathes available on EBay:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=017

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=013

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=017

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=023

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=007

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=012

Forget for a moment issues like shipping from Australia etc. I guess I am
trying to get a better handle on what I should be focusing on in future. I
tried to find courses locally on either milling or lathe but without
success.

For instance if I understood some of the recent threads correctly, a big
lathe is not necessarily the way to go as it will not handle small work.
Then of course the question is how small is big enough etc, etc.

I shall be grateful for any advice.


It really depends on the parts you are going to make. Are there more
mill parts, or lathe parts?

You can mill on a lathe sorta..and you can turn on a mill..kinda sorta

Combination machines give you the worst of both millers and lathes.

This is actually a decent enough lathe...

http://cgi.ebay.ca/JET-1440D-GAP-BED-METAL-LATHE-EXCELLENT-TOOLED-UP_W0QQitemZ250282811274QQihZ015QQcategoryZ97230QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

#1 question...what is the biggest part you are likely to very turn on
a lathe, both diameter and length?

Id say that for most hobby work...a 12x24 or 13 x 36 would hande
99.99% of everything most folks will be doing.

Next big question..are you needing to work in metric, or English
units? Many lathes wont do metric and if they do...they dont do
English.

Since the value of the dollar is low now compared to the
Canadian...lots of lathes available in California, if you are in
BC..its entirely doable.
http://cgi.ebay.com/JET-MDL-GH-1340A-GEARED-HEAD-ENGINE-LATHE_W0QQitemZ150282132644QQcmdZViewItem?hash=ite m150282132644&_trkparms=72%3A552%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2 %7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1308&_trksid=p4011.c0.m14


Gunner

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those
who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality",
John F. Kennedy.

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:01:03 -0700, "Michael Koblic"
wrote:


Then, of course, the question is which ones. Here is a current crop of
lathes available on EBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/TAKISAWA-14-x-30-PRECISION-GEARED-HEAD-ENGINE-LATHE_W0QQitemZ360079672117QQcmdZViewItem?hash=ite m360079672117&_trkparms=72%3A552%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2 %7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1308&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Good ****, Maynard.


The hottest places in hell are reserved for those
who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality",
John F. Kennedy.

I would buy a good mill, first. My mill gets used quite a bit for all
sorts of things. Much more so than the lathe.
--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:01:03 -0700, "Michael Koblic"
wrote:


Then, of course, the question is which ones. Here is a current crop of
lathes available on EBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/TAKISAWA-14-x-30-PRECISION-GEARED-HEAD-ENGINE-LATHE_W0QQitemZ360079672117QQcmdZViewItem?hash=ite m360079672117&_trkparms=72%3A552%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2 %7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1308&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Good ****, Maynard.


The hottest places in hell are reserved for those
who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality",
John F. Kennedy.

Nice looking lathe, shame about the butchery around the collet closer.
It may be cosmetic and hopefully doesn't indicate the regard held for
the rest of the lathe if any other work has been done.

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:01:03 -0700, "Michael Koblic"
wrote:

This question is probably akin to: "How long is a piece of string?".
However, having done as much research as I reasonably can and with no local
resources to fall back upon I feel compelled to ask this he

If you had to equip a small workshop dealing mainly with hobby manufacture
of small parts, space being at a premium as well as finances, would you:
a) Buy a lathe first
b) Buy a mill first
c) Buy a combination machine


buy a lathe and a vertical slide and you also have the equivalent of a
small mill.

Stealth Pilot

On Aug 19, 1:01 am, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
This question is probably akin to: "How long is a piece of string?".
However, having done as much research as I reasonably can and with no local
resources to fall back upon I feel compelled to ask this he

If you had to equip a small workshop dealing mainly with hobby manufacture
of small parts, space being at a premium as well as finances, would you:
a) Buy a lathe first
b) Buy a mill first
c) Buy a combination machine
....
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

To oversimplify, a lathe makes moving parts that transmit power and a
mill makes the stationary structures that hold them. The small
companies I've worked for typically made their structures on a mill
and bought the round moving parts, or occasionally had a small local
shop make them. I've seen very little lathe work within those
companies, even the one developing ink-jet printers. OTOH the clock
and model engine makers seem able to do everything on a lathe.

I've used a Smithy lathe, an RF-31 mill-drill and the smallest Enco
knee mill, 100-5100, which Grizzly now sells. While they weren't
nearly as well made and nice to operate as my old Clausing mill and
South Bend lathe they did the job well enough after I figured out
their peculiarities and weaknesses. I also used a Prazi lathe clone
which was OK for small parts and the Sherline mill and lathe which
were ridiculously inadequate even for the electronics parts I was
making.

I originally learned machining on a 15" lathe and Bridgeport. I think
they are the right size for an inventor or commercial research and
development, the maximum for a hobbyist and difficult to stuff into a
basement. Smaller machines like mine are more fun to use.

I could have made the parts for my front end loader and sawmill with a
bandsaw and drill press by redesigning them and buying new valves and
cylinders instead of adapting used ones. Otherwise I mainly used the
mill to drill accurately sized and located parallel holes, the lathe
for grease passages in the pivot pins. Usually I visit a local supply
house first, buy whatever shafting, bearings or hydraulics they have
or can order, then design the machine to fit them. All I need to know
beforehand is what size shaft will handle the horsepower and speed. I
can figure out the details at the counter.

Tell us what you're doing. Are you building new stuff (mill) or
replacing worn parts (lathe)? Depending on your interests there may be
ways to do the work of a lathe on a mill or vice-versa. For instance
you can turn a snap-ring groove on a short shaft by chucking it in a
mill collet, or machine flat surfaces on small parts on a lathe face
plate. You can thread the end of a shaft to attach something, or drill
and pin it. These substitutions can let you live with only one machine
tool if you can adapt to them.

Jim Wilkins
Clicked 'Send', results inconclusive.

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:40:41 +0100, David Billington
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:01:03 -0700, "Michael Koblic"
wrote:


Then, of course, the question is which ones. Here is a current crop of
lathes available on EBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/TAKISAWA-14-x-30-PRECISION-GEARED-HEAD-ENGINE-LATHE_W0QQitemZ360079672117QQcmdZViewItem?hash=ite m360079672117&_trkparms=72%3A552%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2 %7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1308&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Good ****, Maynard.


The hottest places in hell are reserved for those
who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality",
John F. Kennedy.

Nice looking lathe, shame about the butchery around the collet closer.
It may be cosmetic and hopefully doesn't indicate the regard held for
the rest of the lathe if any other work has been done.

Hey David,

Yeah. Makes me think that they may have had, or tried, a power collet
closer at one time.

Webb is pretty good stuff, but I'd question the 1-1/8 spindle bore.
Doesn't seem quite as big as it needs to be for 5C collets does it?
And the chuck mounting is quite a bit rarer than the D1-4's common on
this size and so easily found available used.

No tooling either, although I would trust Reliable to give you
everything that came with it.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

Tell us roughly where you are. Who knows, one of us may live a mile
(km?) away or closer!

How small is "small"?. If you are going to make parts for a bicycle,
then any lathe you listed is small enough. If you are going to make
parts for a watch, then that's a different story. You have listed quite
a variety of lathe sizes here.
I have an old Atlas 10 inch lathe and I can turn a sharp point on a
piece of 1/18" diameter tool steel. I seldom use speeds of over 1000
rpm. But if you are constantly turning tiny things, sure, smaller is
better. If you see yourself every turning things a couple of inches in
diameter or bigger, I'd go with a 10 inch lathe. But if you get a used
one, then you immediately have the issue of chuck quality, collets,
etc.. You can easily pay as much for a new 3 jaw chuck and a set of
collets as you did for the lathe.
As you probably know, you can easily invest more in the tooling than
you have in the original piece of equipment. I know I did.

I don't have any personal experience with the combination machines.
They have always looked like a neat solution to your problem, but they
certainly are a "compromise" machine. If you consider getting one, I'd
try to get a feel for the rigidity of the one you want. The tool posts
are always so high in the air that I can't see how they can take very
large accurate cuts on steel parts.

I know I probably will get a lot of heat for this, but if you get a
small lathe, you can forget about carbide inserted tooling for the most
part. You will need sharper tool geometry than carbide will permit to
minimize springiness and the lack of predictable accuracy that follows.

You can mill on a lathe, but you can't do much turning on a mill.

Consider putting an adverstisement in your local papers to look for
others in your area who do what you want to do. I'll bet there are
people not far away who could help you in this area.
If there are any secondary schools in your area that do have machine
shop facilities, how about contacting the school and talking to the shop
teachers. Maybe you could make a connection there?

Finally: Nothing is forever. Get something and get started. Save the
mill for later.

Pete Stanaitis
---------------------------------------


Michael Koblic wrote:

snip
If you had to equip a small workshop dealing mainly with hobby manufacture
of small parts, space being at a premium as well as finances, would you:
a) Buy a lathe first
b) Buy a mill first
c) Buy a combination machine

snip

"Michael Koblic" wrote in message
...
This question is probably akin to: "How long is a piece of string?".

A piece of string is precisely 12.203452345928345623762358697 inches long.
A-nuther piece of string may be a different length.

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 01:56:24 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:01:03 -0700, "Michael Koblic"
wrote:


Then, of course, the question is which ones. Here is a current crop of
lathes available on EBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/TAKISAWA-14-x-30-PRECISION-GEARED-HEAD-ENGINE-LATHE_W0QQitemZ360079672117QQcmdZViewItem?hash=ite m360079672117&_trkparms=72%3A552%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2 %7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1308&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Good ****, Maynard.

I wonder how many of those 32 bids are shills, given the bidders'
histories of zero and minus one auctions. =:-o

--
It is pretty hard to tell what does bring happiness;
poverty and wealth have both failed.
-- Kin Hubbard

Michael Koblic wrote:
This question is probably akin to: "How long is a piece of string?".
No, there is ONE correct answer to the string question, but the
lathe/mill answer is "it depends on what you make!"
However, having done as much research as I reasonably can and with no local
resources to fall back upon I feel compelled to ask this he

If you had to equip a small workshop dealing mainly with hobby manufacture
of small parts, space being at a premium as well as finances, would you:
a) Buy a lathe first
b) Buy a mill first
c) Buy a combination machine
Answer C is definitely out, unless your shop is limited to the
floor of a small closet. They are awful, I could write a long
article on why, but generally there are big limitations on
workpiece size and adjustment of height range of the head.
We have one of those combo machines just like your 3rd link at
work, it is abominable. No head height adjustment at all!
It is not a REALLY bad lathe, but nearly worthless as a mill.
I take work home to do because I'd rather do "work work" in my
free time than use that klunker. It is also just a poorly made
piece of Chinese crap that will give you a lot of maintenance
headaches if you use it a lot. Just dumping on this particular
item as I know how bad it is. (Also calling it a 16" lathe with
a 3" chuck is quite funny! Maybe you could turn wooden bowls on
it, but no way could it turn a 16" piece of steel.

If you make a lot of round parts, then a lathe is a good choice.
If you make a lot of rectangular parts, a lathe is the wrong
tool. Either machine can serve as the other in a pinch. I made
some serious lathe parts on my mill when I needed spherical
ends, basically I was making ball joints, and didn't have a
radius turning attachment. But, I had a CNC mill. Put work in
spindle, mount lathe tool in mill vise, and go to it.

So, I can't go further without knowing what you need to make. I
make a lot of machine panels and electronic cabinets out of
sheet metal, a mill is clearly the tool of choice for that. So,
years ago, when I started out, I bought the mill first, then the
lathe. The only advice for the mill is check the X-Y travels
and think carefully about the biggest work you will need to
make, and also avoid those round-ram "mill-drills" as the head
loses the X-Y alignment any time you raise or lower the head.

On Aug 19, 12:05 pm, Jon Elson wrote:
Michael Koblic wrote:
This question is probably akin to: "How long is a piece of string?".

No, there is ONE correct answer to the string question, but the
lathe/mill answer is "it depends on what you make!" However, having done as much research as I reasonably can and with no local
resources to fall back upon I feel compelled to ask this he

If you had to equip a small workshop dealing mainly with hobby manufacture
of small parts, space being at a premium as well as finances, would you:
a) Buy a lathe first
b) Buy a mill first
c) Buy a combination machine

Answer C is definitely out, unless your shop is limited to the
floor of a small closet. They are awful, I could write a long
article on why, but generally there are big limitations on
workpiece size and adjustment of height range of the head.
We have one of those combo machines just like your 3rd link at
work, it is abominable. No head height adjustment at all!
It is not a REALLY bad lathe, but nearly worthless as a mill.
I take work home to do because I'd rather do "work work" in my
free time than use that klunker. It is also just a poorly made
piece of Chinese crap that will give you a lot of maintenance
headaches if you use it a lot. Just dumping on this particular
item as I know how bad it is. (Also calling it a 16" lathe with
a 3" chuck is quite funny! Maybe you could turn wooden bowls on
it, but no way could it turn a 16" piece of steel.

If you make a lot of round parts, then a lathe is a good choice.
If you make a lot of rectangular parts, a lathe is the wrong
tool. Either machine can serve as the other in a pinch. I made
some serious lathe parts on my mill when I needed spherical
ends, basically I was making ball joints, and didn't have a
radius turning attachment. But, I had a CNC mill. Put work in
spindle, mount lathe tool in mill vise, and go to it.

So, I can't go further without knowing what you need to make. I
make a lot of machine panels and electronic cabinets out of
sheet metal, a mill is clearly the tool of choice for that. So,
years ago, when I started out, I bought the mill first, then the
lathe. The only advice for the mill is check the X-Y travels
and think carefully about the biggest work you will need to
make, and also avoid those round-ram "mill-drills" as the head
loses the X-Y alignment any time you raise or lower the head.


Actually one can do quite a bit of turning work on a horizontal mill,
even turning between centres. I have a small Japanese H mill with
vertical head and it is ideal for me. Son and I regularly re-machine
brake rotors for our RX7s.

As was pointed out above you have to decide what work is most
prevalent, precision turning ie. fitting round parts together for
sliding, press, or transition fits. Ability to turn accurate dia. and
holes is vital if you plan on using commercial items such as ball
bearings. If this is the case, get a lathe first. A decent sized
lathe, say a robust 10" lathe and larger equipped with a good milling
attachment will permit milling of smallish parts with reasonable
accuracy.

If your parts have many flat features and bores of various sizes then
a mill first is the way to go. Here I am swimming against the stream
in advising a horizontal mill which for my money is more VERSATILE
than a vertical mill. By placing a faceplate or chuck in the H
spindle it makes a pretty decent lathe for short parts. Add a boring
head and you have a small horizontal boring mill.

A horizontal mill will do everything that a vertical mill will do, but
NOT VICE VERSA! It is agreed that a vertical mill is more CONVENIENT
for many milling operations... That's why I have a vertical head on
mine. But if we are talking about versatility, my advice/opinion
stands.

Although there are many here advocating "bigger is better", on a lathe
that isn't necessarily so. Turning small dia. on a large lathe is a
royal pain because the top speed is too low for efficient chip flow.
Even though my 10" lathe has a top speed of 2500 rpm, I also have a
watchmaker's lathe with a top speed in excess of 10,000 rpm. For
turning and drilling small parts it is a real joy to use.

I build models, the largest of which is a 3/4' scale (1/16" to the
foot) Hudson steam locomotive. And we turn brake rotors. Repair
stuff, make custom components for whatever, build stirling/hot air
engines.

My equipment, backed by a full complement of attachments many home-
built, is a 10" EMCO-MAIER lathe of 1976 vintage. A Japanese H mill
6" x 20" table with V head, 1960's vintage. A post type vertical mill
built from a robust X-Y table and the milling head that came with the
lathe. 1950's bench type drill press, Atlas 7" shaper, 12 Rockwell
bandsaw converted to metal cutting, small gear hobbing machine,
homebuilt blade welder and EDM machine, brazing/silver soldering
equipment, and lately a home-built tig welder Son built from my
father's old Lincoln Tombstone.

With this equipment there is very little we can't do, and except for
the welder, it all fits into a 13' x 14' basement shop suitable for 2
people working, 3 if they are good friends :-)).

Decisions decisions. Perhaps if you could elaborate on your interests
we could give you more specific answers.

Wolfgang

Michael Koblic wrote:
This question is probably akin to: "How long is a piece of string?".
However, having done as much research as I reasonably can and with no local
resources to fall back upon I feel compelled to ask this he

If you had to equip a small workshop dealing mainly with hobby manufacture
of small parts, space being at a premium as well as finances, would you:
a) Buy a lathe first
b) Buy a mill first
c) Buy a combination machine

Then, of course, the question is which ones. Here is a current crop of
lathes available on EBay:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=017

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=013

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=017

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=023

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=007

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=012

Forget for a moment issues like shipping from Australia etc. I guess I am
trying to get a better handle on what I should be focusing on in future. I
tried to find courses locally on either milling or lathe but without
success.

For instance if I understood some of the recent threads correctly, a big
lathe is not necessarily the way to go as it will not handle small work.
Then of course the question is how small is big enough etc, etc.

I shall be grateful for any advice.

Per the tenor of the group, a string is as long as it is.

If I were just making car parts I'd go with a mill. Every bit of
car-part stuff I've made has been turned, and it all would have come out
better on a mill.

Since I'm (very slowly) teaching myself how to build small engines, I
bought a combination machine, which was a big mistake. I wish that
instead I'd spent my money on a lathe and a milling attachment -- if you
choose your designs carefully, you can build working engines on just a
lathe.

One day I'll get a mill, then I'll get a real lathe, then I'll have a
party when I dispose of the damn Smithy.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

you would do much better to describe the work, materials involved, quality
needed, quantity of parts...


"Michael Koblic" wrote in message
...
This question is probably akin to: "How long is a piece of string?".
However, having done as much research as I reasonably can and with no
local resources to fall back upon I feel compelled to ask this he

If you had to equip a small workshop dealing mainly with hobby manufacture
of small parts, space being at a premium as well as finances, would you:
a) Buy a lathe first
b) Buy a mill first
c) Buy a combination machine

Then, of course, the question is which ones. Here is a current crop of
lathes available on EBay:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=017

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=013

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=017

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=023

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=007

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=012

Forget for a moment issues like shipping from Australia etc. I guess I am
trying to get a better handle on what I should be focusing on in future. I
tried to find courses locally on either milling or lathe but without
success.

For instance if I understood some of the recent threads correctly, a big
lathe is not necessarily the way to go as it will not handle small work.
Then of course the question is how small is big enough etc, etc.

I shall be grateful for any advice.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:40:41 +0100, David Billington
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:01:03 -0700, "Michael Koblic"
wrote:


Then, of course, the question is which ones. Here is a current crop of
lathes available on EBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/TAKISAWA-14-x-30-PRECISION-GEARED-HEAD-ENGINE-LATHE_W0QQitemZ360079672117QQcmdZViewItem?hash=ite m360079672117&_trkparms=72%3A552%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2 %7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1308&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Good ****, Maynard.


The hottest places in hell are reserved for those
who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality",
John F. Kennedy.

Nice looking lathe, shame about the butchery around the collet closer.
It may be cosmetic and hopefully doesn't indicate the regard held for
the rest of the lathe if any other work has been done.


Actually pretty common. Thats an aftermarket collet closer, probably a
Royal or JFK, and that sort of cutout is pretty common on most lathes
Ive seen that had an aftermarket CC installed. In fact..most look FAR
worse...shrug

Its only a fiberglass cover. Machine shops have drill motors
(sometimes) but they seldom have a sabre saw.

Gunner

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those
who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality",
John F. Kennedy.

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:09:58 -0400, Brian Lawson
wrote:



Then, of course, the question is which ones. Here is a current crop of
lathes available on EBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/TAKISAWA-14-x-30-PRECISION-GEARED-HEAD-ENGINE-LATHE_W0QQitemZ360079672117QQcmdZViewItem?hash=ite m360079672117&_trkparms=72%3A552%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2 %7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1308&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Good ****, Maynard.


The hottest places in hell are reserved for those
who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality",
John F. Kennedy.

Nice looking lathe, shame about the butchery around the collet closer.
It may be cosmetic and hopefully doesn't indicate the regard held for
the rest of the lathe if any other work has been done.

Hey David,

Yeah. Makes me think that they may have had, or tried, a power collet
closer at one time.

Webb is pretty good stuff, but I'd question the 1-1/8 spindle bore.

Thats about the average size for 5C bores. Allows you to sometimes use
a 1 1/16th collet.

What they did was measure the ass end of the spindle bore, made a best
guess, and not the front. I know how Reliable does things.....

Doesn't seem quite as big as it needs to be for 5C collets does it?
And the chuck mounting is quite a bit rarer than the D1-4's common on
this size and so easily found available used.

Still common enough.

No tooling either, although I would trust Reliable to give you
everything that came with it.

KDK 100 series or Nix (KDK clone) set of tool holders have been
pretty common on Ebay recently. A KDK 150 series MAY..MAY
fit...probably not, maybe ...on this lathe.




Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those
who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality",
John F. Kennedy.

Michael Koblic wrote:
This question is probably akin to: "How long is a piece of string?".
However, having done as much research as I reasonably can and with no
local resources to fall back upon I feel compelled to ask this he

If you had to equip a small workshop dealing mainly with hobby
manufacture of small parts, space being at a premium as well as
finances, would you: a) Buy a lathe first
b) Buy a mill first
c) Buy a combination machine


I started with a Wards (Logan) 10X31 lathe , and recently added a benchtop
mill (RF45 clone) . I also have quite a bit of other stuff , a fairly well
equipped metalworking hobby shop , all in a shed that's 8 X 12 .
Organization and wall cabinets/shelving are the key to maximizing small
spaces .
--
Snag
even got a wireless computer connection out there ...

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 08:27:28 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 01:56:24 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:01:03 -0700, "Michael Koblic"
wrote:


Then, of course, the question is which ones. Here is a current crop of
lathes available on EBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/TAKISAWA-14-x-30-PRECISION-GEARED-HEAD-ENGINE-LATHE_W0QQitemZ360079672117QQcmdZViewItem?hash=ite m360079672117&_trkparms=72%3A552%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2 %7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1308&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Good ****, Maynard.

I wonder how many of those 32 bids are shills, given the bidders'
histories of zero and minus one auctions. =:-o


Its Reliable Tools...think they woul shill bid?

Its been alleged quite widely...that yes...they do indeed.

As has been my experience in dealing with them on some items, "sold"
and found sitting in their warehouse a year later...ebay sticker still
attatched....



The hottest places in hell are reserved for those
who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality",
John F. Kennedy.

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:40:41 +0100, David Billington
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:01:03 -0700, "Michael Koblic"
wrote:



Then, of course, the question is which ones. Here is a current crop of
lathes available on EBay:


http://cgi.ebay.com/TAKISAWA-14-x-30-PRECISION-GEARED-HEAD-ENGINE-LATHE_W0QQitemZ360079672117QQcmdZViewItem?hash=ite m360079672117&_trkparms=72%3A552%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2 %7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1308&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Good ****, Maynard.


The hottest places in hell are reserved for those
who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality",
John F. Kennedy.


Nice looking lathe, shame about the butchery around the collet closer.
It may be cosmetic and hopefully doesn't indicate the regard held for
the rest of the lathe if any other work has been done.



Actually pretty common. Thats an aftermarket collet closer, probably a
Royal or JFK, and that sort of cutout is pretty common on most lathes
Ive seen that had an aftermarket CC installed. In fact..most look FAR
worse...shrug

Its only a fiberglass cover. Machine shops have drill motors
(sometimes) but they seldom have a sabre saw.

Gunner

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those
who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality",
John F. Kennedy.

I'll give you that as you have far more experience with these things
from what I read here. I would make it clean and neat or it would annoy
me but that's not really a problem if it is functional. I do work for
myself and others and try to maintain a high standard that I am happy
with or they can get someone else to do it. Regarding the cover, I had
assumed from the picture that it was cast aluminium, or aluminum for the
US market, due to the apparent finish and as the collet closer looks to
be mounted to it so a hefty piece of fibreglass if so like old corvettes.

"Michael Koblic" wrote:

This question is probably akin to: "How long is a piece of string?".
However, having done as much research as I reasonably can and with no local
resources to fall back upon I feel compelled to ask this he

If you had to equip a small workshop dealing mainly with hobby manufacture
of small parts, space being at a premium as well as finances, would you:
a) Buy a lathe first
b) Buy a mill first
c) Buy a combination machine

d) buy a lathe and a mill.

I'd look at what projects interest you and decide which machine to get first if that is
what you can afford.

I bought a mill first. I've used it for lathe work. It will do some of it but I have to
tell you, most of the time, a mill truely sucks as a lathe.

I bet a guy trying to mill on a lathe would tell you that a lathe really sucks as a mill.


If I had to do this again, I'd buy whatever machine type was available first and then get
the other type.

Now if you are making fairly small stuff, I have seen impressive work from combination
machines. Just not very big work.

Wes

A bit cryptic but if you do round parts get a lathe and if you do flat
parts get a mill.

Round parts are things with threads, fittings, etc. Flat parts are those
with flat surfaces, holes, slots and similar.

Michael Koblic wrote:
This question is probably akin to: "How long is a piece of string?".
However, having done as much research as I reasonably can and with no local
resources to fall back upon I feel compelled to ask this he

If you had to equip a small workshop dealing mainly with hobby manufacture
of small parts, space being at a premium as well as finances, would you:
a) Buy a lathe first
b) Buy a mill first
c) Buy a combination machine

Then, of course, the question is which ones. Here is a current crop of
lathes available on EBay:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=017

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=013

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=017

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=023

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=007

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=012

Forget for a moment issues like shipping from Australia etc. I guess I am
trying to get a better handle on what I should be focusing on in future. I
tried to find courses locally on either milling or lathe but without
success.

For instance if I understood some of the recent threads correctly, a big
lathe is not necessarily the way to go as it will not handle small work.
Then of course the question is how small is big enough etc, etc.

I shall be grateful for any advice.

On 2008-08-20, RoyJ wrote:
A bit cryptic but if you do round parts get a lathe and if you do flat
parts get a mill.

Round parts are things with threads, fittings, etc. Flat parts are those
with flat surfaces, holes, slots and similar.

But what about round things with holes?

i

Michael Koblic wrote:
This question is probably akin to: "How long is a piece of string?".
However, having done as much research as I reasonably can and with no local
resources to fall back upon I feel compelled to ask this he

If you had to equip a small workshop dealing mainly with hobby manufacture
of small parts, space being at a premium as well as finances, would you:
a) Buy a lathe first
b) Buy a mill first
c) Buy a combination machine

Then, of course, the question is which ones. Here is a current crop of
lathes available on EBay:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=017

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=013

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=017

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=023

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=007

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=012

Forget for a moment issues like shipping from Australia etc. I guess I am
trying to get a better handle on what I should be focusing on in future. I
tried to find courses locally on either milling or lathe but without
success.

For instance if I understood some of the recent threads correctly, a big
lathe is not necessarily the way to go as it will not handle small work.
Then of course the question is how small is big enough etc, etc.

I shall be grateful for any advice.


--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:09:55 +0100, David Billington
wrote:




Actually pretty common. Thats an aftermarket collet closer, probably a
Royal or JFK, and that sort of cutout is pretty common on most lathes
Ive seen that had an aftermarket CC installed. In fact..most look FAR
worse...shrug

Its only a fiberglass cover. Machine shops have drill motors
(sometimes) but they seldom have a sabre saw.

Gunner

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those
who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality",
John F. Kennedy.

I'll give you that as you have far more experience with these things
from what I read here. I would make it clean and neat or it would annoy
me but that's not really a problem if it is functional. I do work for
myself and others and try to maintain a high standard that I am happy
with or they can get someone else to do it. Regarding the cover, I had
assumed from the picture that it was cast aluminium, or aluminum for the
US market, due to the apparent finish and as the collet closer looks to
be mounted to it so a hefty piece of fibreglass if so like old corvettes.


Looking at it again..it is cast aluminum. But yes..such is all to
common in good machine shops

Gunner

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those
who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality",
John F. Kennedy.

Lathe.


Ignoramus31289 wrote:
On 2008-08-20, RoyJ wrote:
A bit cryptic but if you do round parts get a lathe and if you do flat
parts get a mill.

Round parts are things with threads, fittings, etc. Flat parts are those
with flat surfaces, holes, slots and similar.

But what about round things with holes?

i

Michael Koblic wrote:
This question is probably akin to: "How long is a piece of string?".
However, having done as much research as I reasonably can and with no local
resources to fall back upon I feel compelled to ask this he

If you had to equip a small workshop dealing mainly with hobby manufacture
of small parts, space being at a premium as well as finances, would you:
a) Buy a lathe first
b) Buy a mill first
c) Buy a combination machine

Then, of course, the question is which ones. Here is a current crop of
lathes available on EBay:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=017

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=013

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=017

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=023

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=007

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...MEWA:IT&ih=012

Forget for a moment issues like shipping from Australia etc. I guess I am
trying to get a better handle on what I should be focusing on in future. I
tried to find courses locally on either milling or lathe but without
success.

For instance if I understood some of the recent threads correctly, a big
lathe is not necessarily the way to go as it will not handle small work.
Then of course the question is how small is big enough etc, etc.

I shall be grateful for any advice.

"Jon" wrote in message
news:vJFqk.297$lf2.56@trnddc07...
you would do much better to describe the work, materials involved, quality
needed, quantity of parts...

First of all, I would like to thank everybody for the overwhelming response
and a thoughtful approach on everyone's part.

As picture is worth a thousand words, here is some of the stuff I do:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...7605638700703/

I am sure that these will sway the answers to the lathe side on account of
most things being round, however consider that I use * what is available*
and *what is cheap*. So mild steel most often, occasionally brass. Many a
time something grabs me in a garage sale and is put away for later use when
I suddenly find its place in a project.

I am located about half-way up the Vancouver Island. I have had people make
things for me in the past: The largest dial wheel (Thames) was machined for
me in a Quesnel machine shop. It cost me $30 in 1994 dollars. The final
piece is still around admired by many who are unwilling to part with the
$195. At one stage I was toying with the idea of having the face designs
etched by laser, however the cost of this process would have rendered the
smaller pieces uneconomical.

Thus in general I would prefer to do as much of my own work as possible.
Also it is an excuse to spend large sums on tools. At this point I am still
at a stage of collecting information and, as somebody said, there are still
a few avenues open for me to get my hands on a lathe or a mill for a trial.

There is no rush. Until then I shall stick with the 18th century methods :-)

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Very nice!

You are going to want a standard size mill with a rotary table plus a
lathe with suitable swing for your largest pieces. I suspect that you
are not holding close tolerances so really expensive equipment is not
necessary.

But a CNC conversion is in your $$$$ future!!!

Michael Koblic wrote:
"Jon" wrote in message
news:vJFqk.297$lf2.56@trnddc07...
you would do much better to describe the work, materials involved, quality
needed, quantity of parts...

First of all, I would like to thank everybody for the overwhelming response
and a thoughtful approach on everyone's part.

As picture is worth a thousand words, here is some of the stuff I do:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...7605638700703/

I am sure that these will sway the answers to the lathe side on account of
most things being round, however consider that I use * what is available*
and *what is cheap*. So mild steel most often, occasionally brass. Many a
time something grabs me in a garage sale and is put away for later use when
I suddenly find its place in a project.

I am located about half-way up the Vancouver Island. I have had people make
things for me in the past: The largest dial wheel (Thames) was machined for
me in a Quesnel machine shop. It cost me $30 in 1994 dollars. The final
piece is still around admired by many who are unwilling to part with the
$195. At one stage I was toying with the idea of having the face designs
etched by laser, however the cost of this process would have rendered the
smaller pieces uneconomical.

Thus in general I would prefer to do as much of my own work as possible.
Also it is an excuse to spend large sums on tools. At this point I am still
at a stage of collecting information and, as somebody said, there are still
a few avenues open for me to get my hands on a lathe or a mill for a trial.

There is no rush. Until then I shall stick with the 18th century methods :-)

Michael Koblic wrote:
"Jon" wrote in message
news:vJFqk.297$lf2.56@trnddc07...

you would do much better to describe the work, materials involved, quality
needed, quantity of parts...


First of all, I would like to thank everybody for the overwhelming response
and a thoughtful approach on everyone's part.

As picture is worth a thousand words, here is some of the stuff I do:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...7605638700703/

I am sure that these will sway the answers to the lathe side on account of
most things being round, however consider that I use * what is available*
and *what is cheap*. So mild steel most often, occasionally brass. Many a
time something grabs me in a garage sale and is put away for later use when
I suddenly find its place in a project.

I am located about half-way up the Vancouver Island. I have had people make
things for me in the past: The largest dial wheel (Thames) was machined for
me in a Quesnel machine shop. It cost me $30 in 1994 dollars. The final
piece is still around admired by many who are unwilling to part with the
$195. At one stage I was toying with the idea of having the face designs
etched by laser, however the cost of this process would have rendered the
smaller pieces uneconomical.

Thus in general I would prefer to do as much of my own work as possible.
Also it is an excuse to spend large sums on tools. At this point I am still
at a stage of collecting information and, as somebody said, there are still
a few avenues open for me to get my hands on a lathe or a mill for a trial.

There is no rush. Until then I shall stick with the 18th century methods :-)



Nice work, Michael.

Jim

"RoyJ" wrote in message
m...
Very nice!

You are going to want a standard size mill with a rotary table plus a
lathe with suitable swing for your largest pieces. I suspect that you are
not holding close tolerances so really expensive equipment is not
necessary.

But a CNC conversion is in your $$$$ future!!!

Thank you.
You are absolutely right - this equipment is essential! I shall tell my
wife...
Seriously though, you are right about the tolerances. The times I get
frustrated is when I run into problems with symmetry rather than size not
being quite right. Also matching angles - to get the gnomon to come out
where it should there have to be sometimes 4 different angles just right.
The smaller the piece the more critical it is. I have overcome many of these
problems by designing things so that there is room for final adjustment but
that goes only so far.

Still, if it was easy what would be the point of doing it?

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:57:45 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 08:27:28 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 01:56:24 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:01:03 -0700, "Michael Koblic"
wrote:


Then, of course, the question is which ones. Here is a current crop of
lathes available on EBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/TAKISAWA-14-x-30-PRECISION-GEARED-HEAD-ENGINE-LATHE_W0QQitemZ360079672117QQcmdZViewItem?hash=ite m360079672117&_trkparms=72%3A552%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2 %7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1308&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Good ****, Maynard.

I wonder how many of those 32 bids are shills, given the bidders'
histories of zero and minus one auctions. =:-o


Its Reliable Tools...think they woul shill bid?

I hadn't noticed. Is this one of Al Whassisname's stores?


Its been alleged quite widely...that yes...they do indeed.

sigh


As has been my experience in dealing with them on some items, "sold"
and found sitting in their warehouse a year later...ebay sticker still
attatched....

Bad juju, bwana.

--
It is pretty hard to tell what does bring happiness;
poverty and wealth have both failed.
-- Kin Hubbard

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 22:42:38 -0500, RoyJ
wrote:

Very nice!

You are going to want a standard size mill with a rotary table plus a
lathe with suitable swing for your largest pieces. I suspect that you
are not holding close tolerances so really expensive equipment is not
necessary.


Very nice indeed! and I agree..a decent mill with rotary table would
be your first choice

CLOSELY followed by a clunker lathe.

Gunner

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those
who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality",
John F. Kennedy.

On Aug 19, 10:18 pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
As picture is worth a thousand words, here is some of the stuff I do:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...7605638700703/

I am sure that these will sway the answers to the lathe side on account of
most things being round, however consider that I use * what is available*
and *what is cheap*. So mild steel most often, occasionally brass. Many a
time something grabs me in a garage sale and is put away for later use when
I suddenly find its place in a project......
There is no rush. Until then I shall stick with the 18th century methods :-)
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Nice work!

Other than being round and artsy the parts aren't much different from
electronic control panels; large and thin with free-hand shapes cut in
them. They could be done on a low end mill-drill like the RF-31 and a
rotary table with plywood top covers.

You could make the gnomon on a very small lathe, turn the end of it in
the mill, or get a rotary table that stands upright and put a chuck on
it. You can cut a large variety of angled flats and curves with 5C
collet blocks, which will hold a long one-piece rod.

If you turn it on the mill don't let the stock extend more than 3 - 5
diameters from the collet and take light cuts. Otherwise the rod is
likely to catch on the tool, bend, and then crash into the tool on the
next revolution. It can bend the same way in a collet block but at
least it isn't spinning. A lathe (or rotary table tailstock) supports
both ends so you can cut anywhere along the rod.

Old-time mechanics cut metal with hand held chisels on wood lathes. My
small lathe is set up for similar work with a 1/2" drill chuck on the
spindle and a Dremel drill on the tool post. I kept it after buying
the larger South Bend because it spins much faster and disassembles
easily to clean off grinding grit. A lathe is fairly easy to cobble up
from a drill or motor if you don't need the precision bed.

Free-hand milling is easier on a mill with a fairly short table so you
can reach the cranks comfortably. That's one of the few things I don't
like about a Bridgeport. The RF-31 I bought for electronics had enough
table travel to drill both ends of a 19" rack panel but it was short
enough that I could stand at either end of the table and turn the
handle while watching the end mill approach a scribed line.

I don't think a medium-sized lathe would help you much for these
projects. Possibly a combo would work if you get a really good deal on
a used one that doesn't have stripped gears. You could build up a
wooden support table under the end mill and use the carriage feed to
move the disk for engraving. The Smithy I used was an acceptable lathe
but it was crudely finished and needed cleanup. If I owned it I could
have made something useful out of it eventually. That shop had a CNC
lathe and Bridgeport and I only used the Smithy when they were busy.

I have an original, unused milling attachment for my South Bend. The
first time I tried it I found out why it was unused. The carriage is
meant to take downward thrust only and it jumps around from sideways
milling forces. The clamps under the rear are only good enough for
knurling.

Jim Wilkins

On Aug 20, 8:49 am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Aug 19, 10:18 pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:

As picture is worth a thousand words, here is some of the stuff I do:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2768312...7605638700703/

I am sure that these will sway the answers to the lathe side on account of
most things being round, however consider that I use * what is available*
and *what is cheap*. So mild steel most often, occasionally brass. Many a
time something grabs me in a garage sale and is put away for later use when
I suddenly find its place in a project......
There is no rush. Until then I shall stick with the 18th century methods :-)
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Nice work!

Other than being round and artsy the parts aren't much different from
electronic control panels; large and thin with free-hand shapes cut in
them. They could be done on a low end mill-drill like the RF-31 and a
rotary table with plywood top covers.

You could make the gnomon on a very small lathe, turn the end of it in
the mill, or get a rotary table that stands upright and put a chuck on
it. You can cut a large variety of angled flats and curves with 5C
collet blocks, which will hold a long one-piece rod.

If you turn it on the mill don't let the stock extend more than 3 - 5
diameters from the collet and take light cuts. Otherwise the rod is
likely to catch on the tool, bend, and then crash into the tool on the
next revolution. It can bend the same way in a collet block but at
least it isn't spinning. A lathe (or rotary table tailstock) supports
both ends so you can cut anywhere along the rod.

Old-time mechanics cut metal with hand held chisels on wood lathes. My
small lathe is set up for similar work with a 1/2" drill chuck on the
spindle and a Dremel drill on the tool post. I kept it after buying
the larger South Bend because it spins much faster and disassembles
easily to clean off grinding grit. A lathe is fairly easy to cobble up
from a drill or motor if you don't need the precision bed.

Free-hand milling is easier on a mill with a fairly short table so you
can reach the cranks comfortably. That's one of the few things I don't
like about a Bridgeport. The RF-31 I bought for electronics had enough
table travel to drill both ends of a 19" rack panel but it was short
enough that I could stand at either end of the table and turn the
handle while watching the end mill approach a scribed line.

I don't think a medium-sized lathe would help you much for these
projects. Possibly a combo would work if you get a really good deal on
a used one that doesn't have stripped gears. You could build up a
wooden support table under the end mill and use the carriage feed to
move the disk for engraving. The Smithy I used was an acceptable lathe
but it was crudely finished and needed cleanup. If I owned it I could
have made something useful out of it eventually. That shop had a CNC
lathe and Bridgeport and I only used the Smithy when they were busy.

I have an original, unused milling attachment for my South Bend. The
first time I tried it I found out why it was unused. The carriage is
meant to take downward thrust only and it jumps around from sideways
milling forces. The clamps under the rear are only good enough for
knurling.

Jim Wilkins



MK,

Nice work indeed!

Looking at your work I would recommend a post-type milling machine
with a very wide (Y direction) table, along with the largest rotary
table you can handle/afford/fit. 12" diameter would not be too big.
Fit motor drive to the rotary table if you can. Use a piece of MDF
for custom work holding fixtures.

With a little attention to fixturing, the production of those dials
would be a breeze.

Perhaps you should also consider a metal-cutting bandsaw to cut blanks
from larger plate/sheet, although a recip. saw with appropriate blade
would suffice.

Because accuracy is not a primary concern, Ebay and other advertisers
are your friends.

For all that engraving it would be worthwhile to fit CNC control.

Let us know what you decide.

Wolfgang

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
Its Reliable Tools...think they woul shill bid?

Its been alleged quite widely...that yes...they do indeed.

As has been my experience in dealing with them on some items, "sold"
and found sitting in their warehouse a year later...ebay sticker still
attatched....

Am I mising something? If the shill bid wins the seller still has to pay
EBay the final value fee, right? That has got to get expensive in the long
run or if done with any frequency.

Presumably the shill account will not be paying by PayPal :-) However, soon
nobody will be allowed to use cheques or money orders anyway.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

"Michael Koblic" wrote in message
...

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
Its Reliable Tools...think they woul shill bid?

Its been alleged quite widely...that yes...they do indeed.

As has been my experience in dealing with them on some items, "sold"
and found sitting in their warehouse a year later...ebay sticker still
attatched....


my observation is that reliable tools gets top $ on their ebay auction -
however, to their credit, if there is something wrong they make it right - I
haven't bought a $$$ thing from them, but I did get a small tool holder,
which they sent to me - it was damaged, I picked it up locally (when they
still had a retail store) and they credited me immediately, no questions and
I got some other stuff.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Thank you.

There is a lot of information to digest. I have been all over Google to find
out e.g. what the heck is a rotary table etc. :-).
I am trying to relate it all to what I do and it always comes down to the
same thing: I gotta see it! I believe there are some good videos out there I
shall try to look at.

Today, for instance, I cut off a lip off a small (9cm diameter) circular
brass ashtray with a coping saw. That was easy. To restore a circular
profile cleanly was done with some difficulty by rotating the ashtray with
the edge along the disk sander. The clean up of the surface was even more
tricky as the concave shape did not allow the use of my favorite pam sander:
It was all done by hand and patience. Scotchbrite pads really helped. The
result is not too bad and it is ready to receive a face of some sort.

In relation to this thread I was wondering how the machinery would have
helped. Would I be able to mill the circumference with greater precision on
a rotary table? What about the surface - is milling the answer? I have been
trying to find a way to spin these pieces at relatively low speeds and apply
the abrasives to them in a more controlled fashion. I cannot get past the
issue of clamping them securely but I suspect you will tell me that there
are chuck configurations that will do all that.

I was interested in your comments about cobbling up a sort-a-lathe from a
drill press. I have been wondering about that for some time (and now even
have a drill press to spare). I even have a live centre of sorts for the use
with sanding drums. Maybe I should have a look at this again. The only
problem - the said drill press does not go lower that 720 rpm. But for small
parts it sould not be a problem.

It's an adventure...

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...

Nice work!

Other than being round and artsy the parts aren't much different from
electronic control panels; large and thin with free-hand shapes cut in
them. They could be done on a low end mill-drill like the RF-31 and a
rotary table with plywood top covers.

You could make the gnomon on a very small lathe, turn the end of it in
the mill, or get a rotary table that stands upright and put a chuck on
it. You can cut a large variety of angled flats and curves with 5C
collet blocks, which will hold a long one-piece rod.

If you turn it on the mill don't let the stock extend more than 3 - 5
diameters from the collet and take light cuts. Otherwise the rod is
likely to catch on the tool, bend, and then crash into the tool on the
next revolution. It can bend the same way in a collet block but at
least it isn't spinning. A lathe (or rotary table tailstock) supports
both ends so you can cut anywhere along the rod.

Old-time mechanics cut metal with hand held chisels on wood lathes. My
small lathe is set up for similar work with a 1/2" drill chuck on the
spindle and a Dremel drill on the tool post. I kept it after buying
the larger South Bend because it spins much faster and disassembles
easily to clean off grinding grit. A lathe is fairly easy to cobble up
from a drill or motor if you don't need the precision bed.

Free-hand milling is easier on a mill with a fairly short table so you
can reach the cranks comfortably. That's one of the few things I don't
like about a Bridgeport. The RF-31 I bought for electronics had enough
table travel to drill both ends of a 19" rack panel but it was short
enough that I could stand at either end of the table and turn the
handle while watching the end mill approach a scribed line.

I don't think a medium-sized lathe would help you much for these
projects. Possibly a combo would work if you get a really good deal on
a used one that doesn't have stripped gears. You could build up a
wooden support table under the end mill and use the carriage feed to
move the disk for engraving. The Smithy I used was an acceptable lathe
but it was crudely finished and needed cleanup. If I owned it I could
have made something useful out of it eventually. That shop had a CNC
lathe and Bridgeport and I only used the Smithy when they were busy.

I have an original, unused milling attachment for my South Bend. The
first time I tried it I found out why it was unused. The carriage is
meant to take downward thrust only and it jumps around from sideways
milling forces. The clamps under the rear are only good enough for
knurling.

Jim Wilkins

Thank you.

Your advice coincides with a few others and shall be looking in that
direction in a more focussed fashion.

When you say "rotary table with motor drive" is this to allow repositioning
of the table to allow, e.g. milling slots, or is it a drive to spin the
table sufficiently fast to allow some lathe type operations (right now I
would find it helpful to be able to spin some fo the pieces around 50 rpm
and apply abrasives, particularly if the pieces are not completey flat)?

A month ago I walked away from a 7x10 band saw with a hydraulic feed in a
garage sale. For the rest of the day I felt like someone cut off my
arm...:-)

At this point I can still cut OK, it is the other stuff that is a priority.

Also, there has to be room for fencing in the garage!

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

wrote in message
...
Nice work indeed!

Looking at your work I would recommend a post-type milling machine
with a very wide (Y direction) table, along with the largest rotary
table you can handle/afford/fit. 12" diameter would not be too big.
Fit motor drive to the rotary table if you can. Use a piece of MDF
for custom work holding fixtures.

With a little attention to fixturing, the production of those dials
would be a breeze.

Perhaps you should also consider a metal-cutting bandsaw to cut blanks
from larger plate/sheet, although a recip. saw with appropriate blade
would suffice.

Because accuracy is not a primary concern, Ebay and other advertisers
are your friends.

For all that engraving it would be worthwhile to fit CNC control.

Let us know what you decide.

Wolfgang

Michael Koblic wrote:
Thank you.

There is a lot of information to digest. I have been all over Google to find
out e.g. what the heck is a rotary table etc. :-).
I am trying to relate it all to what I do and it always comes down to the
same thing: I gotta see it! I believe there are some good videos out there I
shall try to look at.

Today, for instance, I cut off a lip off a small (9cm diameter) circular
brass ashtray with a coping saw. That was easy. To restore a circular
profile cleanly was done with some difficulty by rotating the ashtray with
the edge along the disk sander. The clean up of the surface was even more
tricky as the concave shape did not allow the use of my favorite pam sander:
It was all done by hand and patience. Scotchbrite pads really helped. The
result is not too bad and it is ready to receive a face of some sort.

In relation to this thread I was wondering how the machinery would have
helped. Would I be able to mill the circumference with greater precision on
a rotary table? What about the surface - is milling the answer? I have been
trying to find a way to spin these pieces at relatively low speeds and apply
the abrasives to them in a more controlled fashion. I cannot get past the
issue of clamping them securely but I suspect you will tell me that there
are chuck configurations that will do all that.

I was interested in your comments about cobbling up a sort-a-lathe from a
drill press. I have been wondering about that for some time (and now even
have a drill press to spare). I even have a live centre of sorts for the use
with sanding drums. Maybe I should have a look at this again. The only
problem - the said drill press does not go lower that 720 rpm. But for small
parts it sould not be a problem.

It's an adventure...

In your research, be sure to look up "Lathe faceplate". You may also
consider ways to slow down the drill press.

--


Ron Thompson
Riding my '07 XL883C Sportster
On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast,
right beside the Kennedy Space Center,
USA

http://www.plansandprojects.com
My hobby pages are he
http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/

Visit the castinghobby FAQ:
http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/

Add yourself to the member map he
http://www.frappr.com/castinghobby

Want to have some fun? The next time you're at McDonald's, wait until
the kid has your change ready and then say "Wait, I've got the two cents."
-Ron Thompson

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 22:09:46 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Michael Koblic" quickly quoth:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
Its Reliable Tools...think they woul shill bid?

Its been alleged quite widely...that yes...they do indeed.

As has been my experience in dealing with them on some items, "sold"
and found sitting in their warehouse a year later...ebay sticker still
attatched....

Am I mising something? If the shill bid wins the seller still has to pay
EBay the final value fee, right? That has got to get expensive in the long
run or if done with any frequency.

The shill bidder can hike up the auction amount by tens, hundreds,
maybe even a thousand dollars. What're a few bucks in eBay fees to
that? Shills also seldom win the bid.


Presumably the shill account will not be paying by PayPal :-) However, soon
nobody will be allowed to use cheques or money orders anyway.

Yeah, we'll all have to buy eBay Bucks or something...

--
It is pretty hard to tell what does bring happiness;
poverty and wealth have both failed.
-- Kin Hubbard

On Aug 21, 2:02 am, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
Thank you....

Today, for instance, I cut off a lip off a small (9cm diameter) circular
brass ashtray with a coping saw. That was easy. To restore a circular
profile cleanly was done with some difficulty by rotating the ashtray with
the edge along the disk sander. The clean up of the surface was even more
tricky as the concave shape did not allow the use of my favorite pam sander:
It was all done by hand and patience. Scotchbrite pads really helped. The
result is not too bad and it is ready to receive a face of some sort.

I get into jobs like that where machine tools don't help much.
Currently I'm making a catalytic converter heat shield out of a
damaged stainless steel chimney section. I haven't quite figured out
how to make louvers on a curved surface yet. A new heat shield from
the dealer is $120 and NOT stainless.

Sheet metal is easier to profile if you attach it to plywood. I put
screws and washers around the edges and in waste areas and then fasten
temporary wooden strips across the sheet close to the edges being cut
to keep them from lifting, which is a problem with end mills.

My circular routing jig consists of a tapped block bolted to a
laminate trimmer (small router) connected to a ball rod end (for go-
kart steering) with threaded rod. The rod end pivots on a bolt, held
squarely upright by a tee nut, in the center of the plywood. To feed
it in or out I flip the rod end half a turn, which is more certain
than two opposed nuts and accurate enough for most such jobs. You
could make a similar rig without machining by bolting strips of
slotted angle to opposites sides of the tool's base plate, with the
holes for the threaded rod far enough out to clear the collet wrench.
To start a cut I slide it onto the center bolt with the rod end raised
upward and lower it level to feed outward. The rod end is a close fit
on the bolt even at an angle.

In relation to this thread I was wondering how the machinery would have
helped. Would I be able to mill the circumference with greater precision on
a rotary table? What about the surface - is milling the answer? I have been
trying to find a way to spin these pieces at relatively low speeds and apply
the abrasives to them in a more controlled fashion.

My rotary table is too lightweight for serious circular milling, not
that I haven't tried. Its 40:1 reduction ratio means all rotation is
relatively low speed like a clock's minute hand. That's one reason for
a motorized one. A hand-held tool becomes harder to control as the
metal thickness increases and the rotary table keeps the cutter and
work from jumping around and your hands further away. I think you
could use it and the table feed to engrave the Roman numerals.

Maybe you could find or make a pottery wheel with a frame around it to
support your tools. If you set it up right the rotating tool will
drive the wheel. That's how I ground down the front motorcycle tire
for my sawmill. I could control the speed by changing the angle that
the grinding disk crossed the tire. The top speed my 7" angle grinder
could drive it to was about 80 MPH which is reasonable as long as the
wheel is balanced and the axle is bolted to 150 pounds of steel.

A motorcycle front wheel might work well for you since you can easily
attach plywood to the brake rotor and your work to the plywood. They
have enough inertia that momentarily grinding parallel to the
circumference won't speed them up dangerously. The axle will catch
your disk if it comes loose although spinning particle board weakened
by screw holes is a hazard to whatever part of you is in line.

I cannot get past the
issue of clamping them securely but I suspect you will tell me that there
are chuck configurations that will do all that.

The chuck configuration is plywood or particle board with screws,
soldered tabs, clamps, low-strength glue, XC ski wax, whatever you can
loosen to remove the work. The traditional woodworking trick is to put
a sheet of newspaper in the glue joint. The newspaper splits when you
push a chisel into the joint.

Supposedly if you first turn the OD of the disk round you can hold it
very securely in a shallow press-fit recess turned in the wood and
have the entire face free. The heat from polishing tightens the grip.
You can pop it out with a dowel through a small predrilled hole. The
Holtzapffel book that came from says the press fit only lasts a day
because the wood changes size with humidity overnight.

I flatten large surfaces with an angle grinder, sander and (rarely)
buffing pad and check for flatness with a straight edge or the
reflection of fluorescent light tubes. The tiny fraction of my work
that could be called "art" has a matte finish to avoid the problem. I
was looking over my neighbor's custom Harley the other day and noticed
that none of the hand-buffed chromed surfaces were really flat, but I
had to look hard to see that. It's good to have loud neighbors when
you run a chop saw outdoors.

I was interested in your comments about cobbling up a sort-a-lathe from a
drill press. I have been wondering about that for some time (and now even
have a drill press to spare). I even have a live centre of sorts for the use
with sanding drums. Maybe I should have a look at this again. The only
problem - the said drill press does not go lower that 720 rpm. But for small
parts it sould not be a problem.
It's an adventure...

The trouble with using a drill press is that the head and table twist
easily on the round column unless you add more fasteners. I chiseled
out the flange at the top of the column so the head can move down and
added an extra clamp screw. If necessary I could make a tailstock
plug that fits the center hole in the baseplate and use the table
collar to attach a toolrest. The quill's antirotation key was a
setscrew that I replaced with a longer clamp screw with the end filed
cylindrical to fit the quill slot and a nail for the tee handle. That
was before I had any other machine tools.

A hand drill attached to a heavy plank would work if you could clamp
it tight enough, maybe bed it in Bondo. You could use a steady rest
instead of a tailstock and cut out to the very end of the gnomon. I've
seen a suggestion (Lautard?) for a home-made wooden steady rest that
simply had a screw bearing downward and another behind the work.
Cutting pressure pushed the work back and up against the screws.

If I had to make a lathe by hand I'd mount four 1" pillow blocks on a
heavy wooden beam, two for the headstock and two for the tail. The
large drive pulley with a 1" bore came off an old clothes dryer. The
first spindle would be keyed shafting and I'd grind and hand-turn a
center point on the head and tail spindles. Then I'd use it to turn
3/4" pipe (1.050" OD) down to fit into the pillow blocks for a hollow
threaded spindle and attach a wooden face plate with a floor flange.

The chuck would be a 1/2" Jacobs drill chuck on a long 1/2-20 bolt,
centered by four setscrews at each end and driven by a cross pin. I
have one on my little AA lathe where it fits the spindle thread and a
larger Jacobs headstock chuck for the SB in an adapter made from a
pipe coupling. They are very handy but not too rigid, so tailstock or
steady rest support is necessary.

The riser blocks to increase the lathe's capacity only have to be
identical, not any exact height, and the spindles can be aligned with
a long shaft through all the bearings. Instead of a carriage on a
precise bed it would have an X-Y table that clamps to the beam
wherever it's needed, like lathes before Maudslay.

I've collected most of the parts except that the head and tailstocks
came off scrapped lathes. It will be assembled only when needed for
large-diameter wheels and pulleys.

Jim Wilkins