Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
what's causing RUST on my Stainless Steel?
Hey everyone,
I build sculpture out of 316L Stainless Steel and am having serious RUST issues. It seem anywhere I grind using a hard disk to grind down welds will ends up with a ton of surface rust where ever the sparks of the grinding hit the sculpture. I'm having to RE-finish pieces to remove the millions of specks of rust that develop. What's going on here? Is there carbide precipitation happening in each spark? (I can't get away from hard grinding some areas of my work after final assembly and the finish polish is already on 90% of sculpture.) Is it the grinding wheel I'm using? (Do some disks have Ferrous material in them or something??) I usually don't use grinding wheels stamped "for stainless" because of their cost, but I always thought that was a matter of HOW they remove material, not that they would contaminate stainless steel. Any suggestions???? James, Port Orchard www.jameskelseystudios.com |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
what's causing RUST on my Stainless Steel?
"RainLover" wrote in message ... Hey everyone, I build sculpture out of 316L Stainless Steel and am having serious RUST issues. It seem anywhere I grind using a hard disk to grind down welds will ends up with a ton of surface rust where ever the sparks of the grinding hit the sculpture. I'm having to RE-finish pieces to remove the millions of specks of rust that develop. What's going on here? Is there carbide precipitation happening in each spark? (I can't get away from hard grinding some areas of my work after final assembly and the finish polish is already on 90% of sculpture.) Those bits of steel that have been heated past incandesence to the 'sparking' stage by the grinder have lost their non-corrodable properties. The bits are so hot when projected by the wheel that they weld to the surface around. Each bit then rusts, and deposits that rust on the surface around it. LLoyd |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
what's causing RUST on my Stainless Steel?
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"RainLover" wrote in message ... Hey everyone, I build sculpture out of 316L Stainless Steel and am having serious RUST issues. It seem anywhere I grind using a hard disk to grind down welds will ends up with a ton of surface rust where ever the sparks of the grinding hit the sculpture. I'm having to RE-finish pieces to remove the millions of specks of rust that develop. What's going on here? Is there carbide precipitation happening in each spark? (I can't get away from hard grinding some areas of my work after final assembly and the finish polish is already on 90% of sculpture.) Those bits of steel that have been heated past incandesence to the 'sparking' stage by the grinder have lost their non-corrodable properties. The bits are so hot when projected by the wheel that they weld to the surface around. Each bit then rusts, and deposits that rust on the surface around it. LLoyd reeeeally big vat of nitric acid should do the trick....... don't try this at home kids, or at least let me watch |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
what's causing RUST on my Stainless Steel?
I have been doing a lot of welding and grinding of 316L lately. After 316
has been heated for any reason it needs to be passivated to remove the free iron. I give the parts a 10-20 minute dip in Citrisurf 2250 between the grinding and polishing stage. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com "RainLover" wrote in message ... Hey everyone, I build sculpture out of 316L Stainless Steel and am having serious RUST issues. It seem anywhere I grind using a hard disk to grind down welds will ends up with a ton of surface rust where ever the sparks of the grinding hit the sculpture. I'm having to RE-finish pieces to remove the millions of specks of rust that develop. What's going on here? Is there carbide precipitation happening in each spark? (I can't get away from hard grinding some areas of my work after final assembly and the finish polish is already on 90% of sculpture.) Is it the grinding wheel I'm using? (Do some disks have Ferrous material in them or something??) I usually don't use grinding wheels stamped "for stainless" because of their cost, but I always thought that was a matter of HOW they remove material, not that they would contaminate stainless steel. Any suggestions???? James, Port Orchard www.jameskelseystudios.com |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
what's causing RUST on my Stainless Steel?
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:08:28 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote: Citrisurf 2250 Would this work for electropolishing? Randy Replogle |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
what's causing RUST on my Stainless Steel?
I was considering getting some Citrisurf when I remebered that the UK
food chain Sainbury's sold own brand appliance descaler that was citric acid based with added surfactants, though it might be worth playing with to see what it did. I had used the last I had so went into the shops and they didn't have any, local branch is poor like that these days. Unfortunately for me other branches seem to be out as well so I suspect they have stopped doing it, damn. Must try Tesco, Asda, Waitrose, Safeway or just buy some Citrisurf. Randy Replogle wrote: On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:08:28 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore" wrote: Citrisurf 2250 Would this work for electropolishing? Randy Replogle |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
what's causing RUST on my Stainless Steel?
RainLover wrote:
I build sculpture out of 316L Stainless Steel and am having serious RUST issues. It seem anywhere I grind using a hard disk to grind down welds will ends up with a ton of surface rust where ever the sparks of the grinding hit the sculpture. I'm having to RE-finish pieces to remove the millions of specks of rust that develop. .... Any suggestions???? Lloyd Sponenburgh's idea that sparked bits are welding to the surface and then rusting sounds plausible. I suggest you drape a welding canvas to keep grinding sparks from hitting the rest of the work. If you don't have a welding area shield, perhaps try cardboard or aluminum flashing. I've occasionally used aluminum foil to shield an area from grinding sparks; it works ok, but gets little holes after a while. The ground-down areas themselves probably need Citrisurf passivation treatment like Glenn Ashmore mentions. -jiw |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
what's causing RUST on my Stainless Steel?
Citrisurf 2250
Would this work for electropolishing? Kinda, sorta but not really. It is really a passivating bath. The main thing it does is prevent rust. OTOH it is nowhere near as nasty as the real stuff. I help my bath along with a 5V 40A power supply just so the Citrisurf will eat off any smears that happen during grinding before I waste a lot of time with the cutting compound. I have tried it as an "electropolishing" bath after the final color pass but while it does whiten the finish it gives a slight mat texture. However, a quick once over with the color compound on a loose muslin wheel brings it out as well as the stuff I send out to be professionally electropolished. Definitely better than a color buff alone. Just keep in mind that electropolishing is not a panacea for all a part's faults. It will not remove scratches much coarser than about 600 grit. The better you can get the finish before electropolishing the better the final product. Where is Ernie Leimkuhler? He is the stainless expert. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com "Randy Replogle" wrote in message ... On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:08:28 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore" wrote: Randy Replogle |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
what's causing RUST on my Stainless Steel?
"RainLover" wrote in message ... Hey everyone, I build sculpture out of 316L Stainless Steel and am having serious RUST issues. It seem anywhere I grind using a hard disk to grind down welds will ends up with a ton of surface rust where ever the sparks of the grinding hit the sculpture. I'm having to RE-finish pieces to remove the millions of specks of rust that develop. What's going on here? Is there carbide precipitation happening in each spark? (I can't get away from hard grinding some areas of my work after final assembly and the finish polish is already on 90% of sculpture.) Is it the grinding wheel I'm using? (Do some disks have Ferrous material in them or something??) I usually don't use grinding wheels stamped "for stainless" because of their cost, but I always thought that was a matter of HOW they remove material, not that they would contaminate stainless steel. Any suggestions???? Try a can of anti spatter spray (welding) - we used that in repairs of SS road tankers for year and it always worked. |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
what's causing RUST on my Stainless Steel?
RainLover wrote:
Hey everyone, I build sculpture out of 316L Stainless Steel and am having serious RUST issues. It seem anywhere I grind using a hard disk to grind down welds will ends up with a ton of surface rust where ever the sparks of the grinding hit the sculpture. I'm having to RE-finish pieces to remove the millions of specks of rust that develop. What's going on here? Is there carbide precipitation happening in each spark? (I can't get away from hard grinding some areas of my work after final assembly and the finish polish is already on 90% of sculpture.) Is it the grinding wheel I'm using? (Do some disks have Ferrous material in them or something??) I usually don't use grinding wheels stamped "for stainless" because of their cost, but I always thought that was a matter of HOW they remove material, not that they would contaminate stainless steel. Any suggestions???? James, Port Orchard www.jameskelseystudios.com Just one. Google the phrase "passivating stainless steel" This is well known and common. Cheers Trevor Jones |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
what's causing RUST on my Stainless Steel?
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 21:00:54 GMT, "Roger" wrote:
Is it the grinding wheel I'm using? (Do some disks have Ferrous material in them or something??) I usually don't use grinding wheels stamped "for stainless" because of their cost, but I always thought that was a matter of HOW they remove material, not that they would contaminate stainless steel. Any suggestions???? Try a can of anti spatter spray (welding) - we used that in repairs of SS road tankers for year and it always worked. An engineer that used to work at Pratt & Whitney told me they used Milk of Magnesia in order to protect metal from welding splatter. He said that they specifically had to use the Philips brand, if someone bought generic, the entire project would have to be scrapped and done over. Sounds a bit messy to clean up, though. --- http://www.FenrirOnline.com Computer services, custom metal etching, arts, crafts, and much more. |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
what's causing RUST on my Stainless Steel?
An engineer that used to work at Pratt & Whitney told me they used
Milk of Magnesia in order to protect metal from welding splatter. He said that they specifically had to use the Philips brand, if someone bought generic, the entire project would have to be scrapped and done over. Sounds a bit messy to clean up, though. But if you had a dose of Delhi belly after a nasty curry the night before, ther'd be no excuse for not turning up to work. |
#13
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
what's causing RUST on my Stainless Steel?
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:08:28 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote: I have been doing a lot of welding and grinding of 316L lately. After 316 has been heated for any reason it needs to be passivated to remove the free iron. I give the parts a 10-20 minute dip in Citrisurf 2250 between the grinding and polishing stage. Thanks for all the responses everyone. Here's my problem... due to the construction technique I need to use, SOME parts of the sculpture are completely FINISHED before I can do final assembly. That's because once assembed, it would be impossible to put my final grind treatment on many locations. WHAT ABOUT THIS: Is there any sort of oil or coating I can apply that will keep the grinding sparks from sticking and yet wash off or presure wash off? (or peel off)??? Thanks, James www.jameskelseystudios.com |
#14
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
what's causing RUST on my Stainless Steel?
RainLover wrote: Is there any sort of oil or coating I can apply that will keep the grinding sparks from sticking and yet wash off or presure wash off? (or peel off)??? Thanks, James www.jameskelseystudios.com If it is grinding sparks, try some PAM or equivalent from your grocery store. Why bother to wash it off. It is clear and won't hurt the stainless. Dan |
#15
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
what's causing RUST on my Stainless Steel?
wrote in message oups.com... RainLover wrote: Is there any sort of oil or coating I can apply that will keep the grinding sparks from sticking and yet wash off or presure wash off? (or peel off)??? Y'know... If the final finish were that important to me, and a little extra cost and time weren't critical issues, I think I'd slather on a nice thick coat of paint - even a tough enamel -, do the work, then use a chemical stripper to remove the protective coating. LLoyd |
#16
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
what's causing RUST on my Stainless Steel?
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:04:53 GMT, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Y'know... If the final finish were that important to me, and a little extra cost and time weren't critical issues, I think I'd slather on a nice thick coat of paint - even a tough enamel -, do the work, then use a chemical stripper to remove the protective coating. How about an aqueous gel? In firefighting we've got a substance known as AFG (Aqueous Firefighting Gel...sometimes the names are so descriptive) that puts a coating of, well, goo, onto a surface. Sticks well, rinses off with water, and isn't prohibitively expensive. Here's a link of something he could try for proably low cost: http://www.scottyfire.com/AFG/AFG3.html Works at 3GPM on a garden hose. No clue on the price and I've never dealt with those guys, but it'd be an interesting experiment and worth talking to the vendor. Hope this helps? Dave Hinz |
#17
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
what's causing RUST on my Stainless Steel?
How about an aqueous gel? In firefighting we've got a substance
known as AFG (Aqueous Firefighting Gel...sometimes the names are so descriptive) that puts a coating of, well, goo, onto a surface. Sticks well, rinses off with water, and isn't prohibitively expensive. Just curious, but what do you use it for in firefighting? It seems like it would work to protect surfaces. I wonder if you could adhere some plastic or paper film to the surface, like the stuff that comes on sheets of acrylic or polycarbonate plastic. |
#18
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
what's causing RUST on my Stainless Steel?
On 30 Mar 2006 12:49:29 -0800, woodworker88 wrote:
How about an aqueous gel? In firefighting we've got a substance known as AFG (Aqueous Firefighting Gel...sometimes the names are so descriptive) that puts a coating of, well, goo, onto a surface. Sticks well, rinses off with water, and isn't prohibitively expensive. Just curious, but what do you use it for in firefighting? It seems like it would work to protect surfaces. It's very much like using a foam; it provides a coating, an airtight film. The fact that it has so much water in it helps it to have more thermal mass than just foam bubbles, and the slime stays there longer than the foam which tends to burn off. On barn fires, for instance, you can slime a side and as long as you don't let it evaporate off, that exposure is protected. It's messy but effective, and a couple rains (or a hose) takes it off. I wonder if you could adhere some plastic or paper film to the surface, like the stuff that comes on sheets of acrylic or polycarbonate plastic. Well, the sparks are hot. Any plastic or fabric coating would either burn or melt, making the problem worse I would think. You want something that has protection and a way to cool the spark; I think the slime is worth investigating. Same stuff is in absorbant disposable diapers, I think. This is just far more diluted. |
#19
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
what's causing RUST on my Stainless Steel?
RainLover wrote:
WHAT ABOUT THIS: Is there any sort of oil or coating I can apply that will keep the grinding sparks from sticking and yet wash off or presure wash off? (or peel off)??? Thanks, James www.jameskelseystudios.com Check with a supplier to commercial bodywork and automotive paint shops. There is a product that can be sprayed on the walls of spray booths to keep the paint overspray from building up. Liquid Mask IIRC. Water soluble, should come off with a soak with a garden hose. Dunno what a 5 gallon bucket is worth, but I have sprayed a bunch of it onto walls. Should work for something like this. Cheers Trevor Jones |
#20
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
what's causing RUST on my Stainless Steel?
"RainLover" wrote in message ... On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:08:28 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore" wrote: I have been doing a lot of welding and grinding of 316L lately. After 316 has been heated for any reason it needs to be passivated to remove the free iron. I give the parts a 10-20 minute dip in Citrisurf 2250 between the grinding and polishing stage. Thanks for all the responses everyone. Here's my problem... due to the construction technique I need to use, SOME parts of the sculpture are completely FINISHED before I can do final assembly. That's because once assembed, it would be impossible to put my final grind treatment on many locations. WHAT ABOUT THIS: Is there any sort of oil or coating I can apply that will keep the grinding sparks from sticking and yet wash off or presure wash off? (or peel off)??? Thanks, James www.jameskelseystudios.com Mig welding spatter guard / rich detergent solution? or even wallpaper glue? |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Joining stainless tube to steel pipe | Metalworking | |||
Best paint for steel garage door with minor rust | Home Repair | |||
How to tell if screws are stainless steel or not? | UK diy | |||
Satin finish Fridge & Stainless Steel Appliances OK? | Home Ownership |