While reading the many posts about the outrageous pricing that Le Blond was
trying to charge for a simple tailstock ram, I did some search about South
Bend and found this article
http://www.cesj.org/vbm/casestudies-...bendlathe.html

It makes for interesting reading and really gets to the issue of why our
manufacturing is going overseas.
On a note of irony, I see that the same guys defending this pricing are the
ones who always tout the values of buying old " American Iron" over new
imports.

In article , EdFielder
says...

On a note of irony, I see that the same guys defending this pricing are the
ones who always tout the values of buying old " American Iron" over new
imports.

Hmm. You're right. They should have just fired those 500 guys
and liquidated the company in the '70s. That would have been
much better.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
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On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 13:46:30 GMT, "EdFielder"
wrote:

While reading the many posts about the outrageous pricing that Le Blond was
trying to charge for a simple tailstock ram, I did some search about South
Bend and found this article
http://www.cesj.org/vbm/casestudies-...bendlathe.html

It makes for interesting reading and really gets to the issue of why our
manufacturing is going overseas.
On a note of irony, I see that the same guys defending this pricing are the
ones who always tout the values of buying old " American Iron" over new
imports.

While this is an interesting financial story, it has what exactly to
do with the price of tailstock tubes or the price of parts?

Throughout the article, I see constant references to pension plans,
big labor interferance and power structure struggles, but no mention
of parts costings.

Gunner


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

On 18 Jan 2005 06:09:48 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , EdFielder
says...

On a note of irony, I see that the same guys defending this pricing are the
ones who always tout the values of buying old " American Iron" over new
imports.

Hmm. You're right. They should have just fired those 500 guys
and liquidated the company in the '70s. That would have been
much better.

Jim

Ayup..then the tailstock tubes wouldnt be available NOS at any price.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke

"Gunner" wrote in message
While this is an interesting financial story, it has what exactly to
do with the price of tailstock tubes or the price of parts?

Throughout the article, I see constant references to pension plans,
big labor interferance and power structure struggles, but no mention
of parts costings.

Gunner

The point is that the problems with South Bend resulted from high cost of
production, mostly stemming from labor, pension etc., not necessarily
materials costs. South Bend then did an innovative thing in the ESOP, but
failed to make fundamental changes in the lock step mentality of the
workforce. Your typical union guy says " Today I am getting 20.00 per hour
for 8 hours work and by God tomorrow I should be getting at least 21.00 per
hour OR only work 7.5 hours." In other words, as the world economy evolves
and changes, he locks himself rigidly into the system to which he is
accustomed and crys like a baby when his plant finally closes.
So what does this have to do with that 330.00 tailstock ram? Its the
same mentality that is driving these people. How did they arrive at that
price? If its NOS, then the WWII price was probably under 1.00- did they
just multiply the old price by some arbitrary figure like the distance from
Cleveland to Cincinnatti? Do you think any one from Le Blond ever went to
the warehouse and picked up this piece and said to himself " Boy what a
bargain - only 330.00 !!" Do you think the parts guy would gleefully pay
330.00 for a set of spark plugs for his Studebaker Champion just because
they had been sitting on the shelf for 50 years?

Gunner wrote:
On 18 Jan 2005 06:09:48 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:


In article , EdFielder
says...


On a note of irony, I see that the same guys defending this pricing are the
ones who always tout the values of buying old " American Iron" over new
imports.

Hmm. You're right. They should have just fired those 500 guys
and liquidated the company in the '70s. That would have been
much better.

Jim


Ayup..then the tailstock tubes wouldnt be available NOS at any price.

....and we'd be discussing how one would go about building one on a
machine tool, rather than this overlong OT thread

EdFielder wrote:

The point is that the problems with South Bend resulted from high cost of
production, mostly stemming from labor, pension etc., not necessarily
materials costs.

Yep, Pension funds get a big mention as a way that companies loose cash
to keep working.

South Bend then did an innovative thing in the ESOP, but
failed to make fundamental changes in the lock step mentality of the
workforce.

Whoa. There was also the typical "managment attitude" problem where "we
have to be in control and make all the decisions" where they set it up
so they controlled "unallocatted shares", which dwarfed the other
shares.

The other problem was that the workers union let them down. It was the
union that was unable to adapt to representing their members in a
different environment.

So, you had a situation where everyone was suppossed to have a stake in
the situation, but the workers really didn't.

In article , Rex B says...

Hmm. You're right. They should have just fired those 500 guys
and liquidated the company in the '70s. That would have been
much better.

Ayup..then the tailstock tubes wouldnt be available NOS at any price.

...and we'd be discussing how one would go about building one on a
machine tool, rather than this overlong OT thread

Where've you been, the OP has fixed one up about 20 posts
ago. It's all over but the hollering. And there's always
plenty of that!

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 13:46:30 GMT, "EdFielder"
wrote:

While reading the many posts about the outrageous pricing that Le Blond was
trying to charge for a simple tailstock ram, I did some search about South
Bend and found this article
http://www.cesj.org/vbm/casestudies-...bendlathe.html

It makes for interesting reading and really gets to the issue of why our
manufacturing is going overseas.
On a note of irony, I see that the same guys defending this pricing are the
ones who always tout the values of buying old " American Iron" over new
imports.

Perhaps I'm slow, but I don't see the connection between the story of
South Bend as told in the article and the issues you're discussing. It
sounds like the root cause was the union's inwillingness to get
involved exacerbated by poor management techniques. (The reason for
putting it in that order is that if the union had been more involved
the management could have been replaced.)

Of course I could be wrong. :-)

--RC
"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.

Maybe if they would have spent some of there time on product design they
may have stood a chance in the marketplace. South Bend sold the same
lathe that they built in 1929 (with the addition of a threading gear box
and L00 spindle) in 1981 - o wait that was a 10"

Brad Morgan - proud owner of a 9" model C

sparkplug question if you cannot find them any were pay the money he has it
you need it the intrest on the money