From: "Phil Kangas"
Subject: Freezing pipes
Date: December 26, 2004 5:37 PM

Interesting link there, kklein! I'm surprised more posters
have not paid more attention to the phenomena of supercooling!
That is more interesting to me. I have seen this _many_ times in
my sauna, a separate building out back, in the water pails. The
temp can go down into the upper twenties and the water in the
pails is not frozen but all it takes is the slightest movement and the
water crystallizes completely to the bottom!

Phil;

I do not see the original post or the link...
Please repost the link and / or the text of that post...
I am very interested and curious...
Thanks,
JHbs

"Phants" wrote in message
Date: December 26, 2004 5:37 PM

Interesting link there, kklein! I'm surprised more
posters
have not paid more attention to the phenomena of
supercooling!
That is more interesting to me. I have seen this _many_
times in
my sauna, a separate building out back, in the water
pails. The
temp can go down into the upper twenties and the water
in the
pails is not frozen but all it takes is the slightest
movement and the
water crystallizes completely to the bottom!

Phil;

I do not see the original post or the link...
Please repost the link and / or the text of that post...
I am very interested and curious...
Thanks,
JHbs

Here's that link again:
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physic...hot_water.html

scroll to the end of it and there is a section on
supercooling.
I wonder how many people have actually seen this happen!
Phil

I know years back when I kept beer in my car and the temp went below
freezing you would need be open and drink the beer real careful, if not it
would turn to slush. You needed to open real slow and just do light sips. If
you just opened and chugged the beer it would turn to a beer slush, and beer
slush is not all the good.


"Phil Kangas" wrote in message
...

"Phants" wrote in message
Date: December 26, 2004 5:37 PM

Interesting link there, kklein! I'm surprised more
posters
have not paid more attention to the phenomena of
supercooling!
That is more interesting to me. I have seen this _many_
times in
my sauna, a separate building out back, in the water
pails. The
temp can go down into the upper twenties and the water
in the
pails is not frozen but all it takes is the slightest
movement and the
water crystallizes completely to the bottom!

Phil;

I do not see the original post or the link...
Please repost the link and / or the text of that post...
I am very interested and curious...
Thanks,
JHbs

Here's that link again:
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physic...hot_water.html

scroll to the end of it and there is a section on
supercooling.
I wonder how many people have actually seen this happen!
Phil

"Waynemak" wrote in message
....
I know years back when I kept beer in my car and the temp went below
freezing you would need be open and drink the beer real careful, if
not it
would turn to slush. You needed to open real slow and just do light
sips. If
you just opened and chugged the beer it would turn to a beer slush,
and beer
slush is not all the good.

Let me guess... You worked night shift and left the beer in the car to
drink with the other guys when you got out in the morning...

That's what I did... ;-}

Did you know that repeatedly freezing maple sap is one of the ways the
Indians made maple sugar... Freezing the water in a solution will "push
all "contaminants" (all not-water) aside or to the center while it
freezes... discard the Ice and do it again... Alternate to "boiling it
down"

JHbs

"Phants" wrote in message
...

Did you know that repeatedly freezing maple sap is one of the ways the
Indians made maple sugar... Freezing the water in a solution will "push
all "contaminants" (all not-water) aside or to the center while it
freezes... discard the Ice and do it again... Alternate to "boiling it
down"

A similar process with apple cider yields apple jack. Mmmmm!
Brian, in Cedar

"Phil Kangas" wrote in message
....
"Phants" wrote in message

snipped

... The temp can go down into the upper twenties and the water
in the pails is not frozen but all it takes is the slightest
movement
and the water crystallizes completely to the bottom!
Phil

Here's that link again:
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physic...hot_water.html


Thanks for the link...

I have not seen this happen but have heard about it twice before.

I have watched ice form - it takes patience... What I saw, several
times, was a long straight line on the surface of the water form very
suddenly..! It actually was several stright lines, intersecting... And
it happened so fast that I did not actually "see it" happen, it was just
suddenly there...

The phrase that interested me in your description is: "crystallizes
completely (to the bottom)" and the description on that page reinforces
the accuracy of your descriiption. Snipped and edited section:

Since the precise time of supercooling is inherently unpredictable,
many experiments have chosen to measure not the time for the
sample to actually become ice, but the time for which the sample's
equilibrium ground state is ice -- that is, ...

The mention of "equilibrium" and "ground state" while it is still water,
not ice though colder than required for ice, is actually what you state,
and this may be the reason that the "precise time of supercooling is
inherently unpredictable" - it hasn't "become ice" yet...

Maybe high speed and highly magnified photography...?
Now I have a theory for this but I am not a physicist and I might be all
wet... :-} but if you like, I will post it ...

JHbs

MY HOT WATER FROZE FIRST why
cold water did not freeze????????
cap locks did not freeze and i am not retyping thank you one finger typing

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...


This is not at all uncommon.... and probably gave rise to the myth
that hot water freezes faster than cold water.


http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/explan4.html#mpemba

--

SVL

PrecisionMachinisT wrote:

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...


This is not at all uncommon.... and probably gave rise to the myth
that hot water freezes faster than cold water.


http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/explan4.html#mpemba

--

SVL



Its not really a myth. The hot water melts some of the ice wnen the
tray is initially put in the freezer and refreezes making a better heat
transfer to the freezer floor. The cold water doesnt make as good of
heat transfer bond and the cooling process is slower.

John