I'm toying with the idea of running a buried natural gas line out to
the garage for a hot air furnace as well as my foundry furnace (now
propane)

I'de have to cover about 25 feet from the basement to the detached
garage.

What are my options for piping? I recall hearing about a direct burial
stainless product, but cant seem to find any info on it for a DIY
installation.

I relaize cast iron is not suitable for direct burial, but is is OK
within a counduit of some sort?

I'de prefer something flexible for easy of installation, but will
gladly make do with whatever works best.

Vin

On 18 Dec 2004 13:46:12 -0800, wrote:

I'm toying with the idea of running a buried natural gas line out to
the garage for a hot air furnace as well as my foundry furnace (now
propane)

I'de have to cover about 25 feet from the basement to the detached
garage.

What are my options for piping? I recall hearing about a direct burial
stainless product, but cant seem to find any info on it for a DIY
installation.

I relaize cast iron is not suitable for direct burial, but is is OK
within a counduit of some sort?

I'de prefer something flexible for easy of installation, but will
gladly make do with whatever works best.

Vin

Its yellow and ya heat it together. the risers are what costs.

Around here, nothing but a yellow flex poly tubing is acceptable. Has to be the
right plastic so gas will not weep through and has to be yellow or orange so
people will reconize it when they find it accidently. Uses special conectors
with glads to prevent leaks. Years ago, I used black poly tubing and every time
my property flooded, I could fine the location of the buried gas line from the
tiny bubbles in the floodwater.

Find a local propane supplier in your Yellow Pages. They routinely bury
flexible tubing in trenches from the tank to the buildings, and you could
probably just buy the tubing and end fittings from them.

Tom Dacon

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm toying with the idea of running a buried natural gas line out to
the garage for a hot air furnace as well as my foundry furnace (now
propane)

I'de have to cover about 25 feet from the basement to the detached
garage.

What are my options for piping? I recall hearing about a direct burial
stainless product, but cant seem to find any info on it for a DIY
installation.

I relaize cast iron is not suitable for direct burial, but is is OK
within a counduit of some sort?

I'de prefer something flexible for easy of installation, but will
gladly make do with whatever works best.

Vin

Cast iron gas line????? You better hire a licensed plumber to do the job
before you blow yourself up.


wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm toying with the idea of running a buried natural gas line out to
the garage for a hot air furnace as well as my foundry furnace (now
propane)

I'de have to cover about 25 feet from the basement to the detached
garage.

What are my options for piping? I recall hearing about a direct burial
stainless product, but cant seem to find any info on it for a DIY
installation.

I relaize cast iron is not suitable for direct burial, but is is OK
within a counduit of some sort?

I'de prefer something flexible for easy of installation, but will
gladly make do with whatever works best.

Vin

"Tony" wrote in news:6z2xd.2021$pM7.1689
@fe08.lga:

Cast iron gas line????? You better hire a licensed plumber to do the job
before you blow yourself up.



The OP was probably referring to black iron, the hard pipe of choice for
gas lines inside a building.



--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

Bamboo joined with tree sap...just like indoor air lines!


wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm toying with the idea of running a buried natural gas line out to
the garage for a hot air furnace as well as my foundry furnace (now
propane)

I'de have to cover about 25 feet from the basement to the detached
garage.

What are my options for piping? I recall hearing about a direct burial
stainless product, but cant seem to find any info on it for a DIY
installation.

I relaize cast iron is not suitable for direct burial, but is is OK
within a counduit of some sort?

I'de prefer something flexible for easy of installation, but will
gladly make do with whatever works best.

Vin

The code for buried lines is different, so you can't just use
above-ground products. Where I live, poly flex pipe is typically used in
a trench 24" deep with a copper tracer wire attached so it can be
located later on. An alternative (if code allows) is the coated iron
pipe, or tin lined copper tubing. These are metal, so no tracer wire is
needed, but they can have corrosion problems in certain soils.

Plumbing supply houses should have the pipe and fittings and some won't
even balk at a DIY if you don't seem too dumb. But be aware that the gas
company might cut you off if they find any hack work attaching your line
to their meter.

Since you mentioned a foundry furnace, please consider the capacity of
your existing meter before you add on any more appliances. Look at the
tag on the front of the meter and it will list the cu.ft./hour rating.
Multiply that by 1000, and that's about how many BTU you can get through
the regulator in the meter. If the meter maxes out at 175000 BTU, and
your house needs 100K BTU for the water heater and furnace, you aren't
going to have any pressure to run a million BTU foundry furnace in the
garage.

My advice is for you to dig the ditch and hire a licensed heating
contractor to size and lay the gas line. That will save you some money
and it will keep the gas company happy.


wrote:
I'm toying with the idea of running a buried natural gas line out to
the garage for a hot air furnace as well as my foundry furnace (now
propane)

I'de have to cover about 25 feet from the basement to the detached
garage.

What are my options for piping? I recall hearing about a direct burial
stainless product, but cant seem to find any info on it for a DIY
installation.

I relaize cast iron is not suitable for direct burial, but is is OK
within a counduit of some sort?

I'de prefer something flexible for easy of installation, but will
gladly make do with whatever works best.

Vin

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 00:18:19 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
calmly ranted:

Bamboo joined with tree sap...just like indoor air lines!

Du ma nhieu, Tahm.


--
Sex is Evil, Evil is Sin, Sin is Forgiven.
Gee, ain't religion GREAT?
---------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Sin-free Website Design

Better check with your local Building Code and your insurance company. A
non-code installation may very well be legal grounds for denying a claim.

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm toying with the idea of running a buried natural gas line out to
the garage for a hot air furnace as well as my foundry furnace (now
propane)

I'de have to cover about 25 feet from the basement to the detached
garage.

What are my options for piping? I recall hearing about a direct burial
stainless product, but cant seem to find any info on it for a DIY
installation.

I relaize cast iron is not suitable for direct burial, but is is OK
within a counduit of some sort?

I'de prefer something flexible for easy of installation, but will
gladly make do with whatever works best.

Vin

Tom Dacon wrote:

Find a local propane supplier in your Yellow Pages. They routinely bury
flexible tubing in trenches from the tank to the buildings, and you could
probably just buy the tubing and end fittings from them.

Tom Dacon

wrote in message
oups.com...

I'm toying with the idea of running a buried natural gas line out to
the garage for a hot air furnace as well as my foundry furnace (now
propane)

I'de have to cover about 25 feet from the basement to the detached
garage.

What are my options for piping? I recall hearing about a direct burial
stainless product, but cant seem to find any info on it for a DIY
installation.

I relaize cast iron is not suitable for direct burial, but is is OK
within a counduit of some sort?

I'de prefer something flexible for easy of installation, but will
gladly make do with whatever works best.

Vin




They might do that at your house, but not here! It is semi-solid high pressure
to a regulator. The Regulator sits on a Yellow coated black iron pipe.
That pipe connects to the house black iron pipe.

The Flexible is used from iron pipe to Hot water heater. Only the coated ones.

That is standard code.

If you go to the Lumber or Building Yard and ask them - they will show you the
pipe.

Talk to a plumber or the Gas people - they don't lay lines the plumbers do.
Gas types attach their tank to the plumbers lines.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:59:10 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 00:18:19 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
calmly ranted:

Bamboo joined with tree sap...just like indoor air lines!

Du ma nhieu, Tahm.

ROFLMAO!

Though Id have to say Tom is not the tahm type.

Maybe re tien or khinh ai

Gunner
"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem.
To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized,
merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

On 18 Dec 2004 13:46:12 -0800, wrote:

I'm toying with the idea of running a buried natural gas line out to
the garage for a hot air furnace as well as my foundry furnace (now
propane)

I'de have to cover about 25 feet from the basement to the detached
garage.

What are my options for piping? I recall hearing about a direct burial
stainless product, but cant seem to find any info on it for a DIY
installation.

I relaize cast iron is not suitable for direct burial, but is is OK
within a counduit of some sort?

I'de prefer something flexible for easy of installation, but will
gladly make do with whatever works best.

Vin

Been there, and have taken the SoCal Gas Appliance Clinic classes...

You need to use the special poly pipe made for buried Natural Gas
service, with the swaged on steel "yard ell" fittings where it comes
above ground - if you measure the route you may be able to get one
pre-assembled, just drop it in the trench and backfill. (Have seen it
done that way for pool heaters.)

That, or the green ScotchKote plastic coated Black Steel pipe, and
tape all the splices and ends with the thick 20-mil corrosion
protection tape.

Either way the line needs to be sized very large, because your
natural gas to the house is less than 1 PSI and flow restriction is a
big problem. Look up the BTUH flow you need in the garage for the
footage of pipe (and each elbow in the line adds another 5' to 10' of
resistance IIRC) and then go the next size (or two) larger. Pipe is
cheap, the labor to redo it again later is expensive.

Don't tap into the existing gas lines under the house, that will put
too much flow through them. Take the new line all the way back to the
gas meter so you can have a separate shutoff valve there, and then
connect the 1" line to the house and the 1-1/2" line to the garage
into one 2" manifold for the meter.

Call the Gas Company when you finish, they will probably need to
install a larger gas meter to provide enough flow.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Big copper line covers the distance from the house to the propane tank. The
propane company put it 12" deep. I've also got copper running across the
basement ceiling to extend the line from the furnace to the fireplace
upstairs for the gas logs.

Steve.


wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm toying with the idea of running a buried natural gas line out to
the garage for a hot air furnace as well as my foundry furnace (now
propane)

I'de have to cover about 25 feet from the basement to the detached
garage.

What are my options for piping? I recall hearing about a direct burial
stainless product, but cant seem to find any info on it for a DIY
installation.

I relaize cast iron is not suitable for direct burial, but is is OK
within a counduit of some sort?

I'de prefer something flexible for easy of installation, but will
gladly make do with whatever works best.

Vin

Had NG plumbed into the garage 6 years ago,nice having a warm garage to work
in!
Do yourself a big,big favour.
Dig a decent trench and lay in 4" conduit or weeping tile FIRST ! Then pull
the approved gas line(yellow palstic up here) through. While your at it
pull some Bell quad,2 or 3 circuits.Good for phone and alarm circuits.
Where the plastic terminates inside, transition to black iron pipe. Put a
Tee here,for future expansion to the gas BBQ and put extras Tees next to the
furnace and the final termination. Again for 'future' uses. You will need
them...glad I did it.

Oh yeah, when you backfill the trench,lots of gravell first, then a layer of
1x6 PT fence boards then dirt.Boards will warn you when you dig in that
area.


Jay

?Translation?



"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:59:10 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 00:18:19 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
calmly ranted:

Bamboo joined with tree sap...just like indoor air lines!

Du ma nhieu, Tahm.

ROFLMAO!

Though Id have to say Tom is not the tahm type.

Maybe re tien or khinh ai

Gunner
"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem.
To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized,
merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 08:43:01 GMT, Gunner
calmly ranted:

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:59:10 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 00:18:19 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
calmly ranted:

Bamboo joined with tree sap...just like indoor air lines!

Du ma nhieu, Tahm.

ROFLMAO!

See what endless bounds of joy that reading various books can bring?
I'd heard the phrase "doom on you" before but never knew what it
meant until I read "Rogue Warrior", then I was in tears from laughing
so hard.


Though Id have to say Tom is not the tahm type.

Over on the Wreck, the "ah" replaces the "o" for a Boston accent.
Bahstahn. Bahstahd. I hadn't even considered taht it might translate
into Viet. titter


Maybe re tien or khinh ai

Darn, I don't speak Vietnamese. Translation, please?
Google translates the Viet or Thai pages from simplified Chinese
into Chinese with half the text as question marks. Real good, folks.
Never mind. I found http://www.ksvn.com/cgi-bin/vietanh2.cgi
(BTW, Tahm doesn't translate.)


--
Sex is Evil, Evil is Sin, Sin is Forgiven.
Gee, ain't religion GREAT?
---------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Sin-free Website Design

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 15:09:48 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
calmly ranted:

?Translation?

It was a gentle "FY" said between friends.
FahQue, but in a nice way, knowwhatImean?


On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 00:18:19 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
calmly ranted:

Bamboo joined with tree sap...just like indoor air lines!

Du ma nhieu, Tahm.

--
Save the Endangered ROAD NARROWS! -|- www.diversify.com
Ban SUVs today! -|- Full Service Websites

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 07:13:03 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Maybe re tien or khinh ai

Darn, I don't speak Vietnamese. Translation, please?
Google translates the Viet or Thai pages from simplified Chinese
into Chinese with half the text as question marks. Real good, folks.
Never mind. I found http://www.ksvn.com/cgi-bin/vietanh2.cgi
(BTW, Tahm doesn't translate.)

Tham (minus the punctuation marks...) means greedy or avaricious

ret tien or khinh ai means roughly..frugal and wise with his
money...or a cheap skate depending on slang G

We would have to download an additonal charector set to display the
punctuations...G

Working in Viet machine shops all week has some advantages, once I got
over the hair rising on the back of my neck issues for the first year
or so.

Tommy...he Numba One Giiii!!

btw...one of the better online dictionaries for Vietnamese is
http://vdict.com/ I have to use it occasionally when my pocket guide
fails me, as my book is a little light on technical terms.
Fortunately. most of my little people speak pretty good english,
though the accents can be a bit tricky to understand. Particularly
if its the end of the day and they are playing cards and drinking Ba
mi Ba beer.

Its been said repeatedly with great accuracy, that a group of happy
Viets sounds just like a flock of ducs....er...ducks...G

One other thing about the viet shops...there are usually ashtrays on
each machine. Non of that anti-smoking California crap in thos
shops..."555" or Marlbourgh cigarettes are the preference. And fancied
up Honda Civics in the parking lot....G

Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem.
To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized,
merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 19:46:21 GMT, Gunner
calmly ranted:

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 07:13:03 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Maybe re tien or khinh ai

Darn, I don't speak Vietnamese. Translation, please?
Google translates the Viet or Thai pages from simplified Chinese
into Chinese with half the text as question marks. Real good, folks.
Never mind. I found http://www.ksvn.com/cgi-bin/vietanh2.cgi
(BTW, Tahm doesn't translate.)

Tham (minus the punctuation marks...) means greedy or avaricious

ret tien or khinh ai means roughly..frugal and wise with his
money...or a cheap skate depending on slang G

We would have to download an additonal charector set to display the
punctuations...G

Working in Viet machine shops all week has some advantages, once I got
over the hair rising on the back of my neck issues for the first year
or so.

Yeah, I thought you might have a good Viet vocabulary working in
HelL.A. machine shops. Was the hair raised from memories of fighting
in Vietnam 30 years ago, abut the time I escaped it by the hair of
my chinny chin chin? (Moved from Phoenix back to Vista just after
turning 18 and drew a draft lottery number of 53. Luckily, the San
Diego draft board didn't need any more bodies. Whew!)


Tommy...he Numba One Giiii!!

Yeah, I'm just giving him some ribbing^H^H^H^H^H^H^hchit for the
bamboo/sap comment.


btw...one of the better online dictionaries for Vietnamese is
http://vdict.com/ I have to use it occasionally when my pocket guide
fails me, as my book is a little light on technical terms.
Fortunately. most of my little people speak pretty good english,
though the accents can be a bit tricky to understand. Particularly
if its the end of the day and they are playing cards and drinking Ba
mi Ba beer.

I used to work with a Viet gal (electronics test techs, both) at
Palomar Technology back in the late 80s. She was a lot of fun and
could make fun of her own accent. Every once in awhile, she'd ask
us guys if we wanted any penis. When our eyebrows went up, she
laughed and repronounced it "Pea Nuss". And we all went over with
our hands out for a handful of peanuts. Another of her favorites
was "I speak very English." I still laugh when I think about that
one. Lien (Lyn) was a great little lady.


Its been said repeatedly with great accuracy, that a group of happy
Viets sounds just like a flock of ducs....er...ducks...G

Did you ever eat at that L.A. restaurant, the Phat Phuc?


One other thing about the viet shops...there are usually ashtrays on
each machine. Non of that anti-smoking California crap in thos
shops..."555" or Marlbourgh cigarettes are the preference. And fancied
up Honda Civics in the parking lot....G

I can't -believe- all the money that's tossed into those little rice
burners. Amazing, to say the least.

--
Save the Endangered ROAD NARROWS! -|- www.diversify.com
Ban SUVs today! -|- Full Service Websites

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm toying with the idea of running a buried natural gas line out to
the garage for a hot air furnace as well as my foundry furnace (now
propane)

Now that everybody has given you the answers to code problems and other
such stuff, there's one problem with using the natural gas with your
foundry furnace. After the gas goes through the meter it comes out at
about, IIRC, at 7psi or something like that. Not enough pressure and
volume to run a foundry furnace.

Bernd

Natural gas from the meter is regulated at 7 inches water column --
about 1/2 psi. If the meter can supply the required volume in cuft/hr,
it will run kilns and furnaces.

Bernd wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

I'm toying with the idea of running a buried natural gas line out to
the garage for a hot air furnace as well as my foundry furnace (now
propane)


Now that everybody has given you the answers to code problems and other
such stuff, there's one problem with using the natural gas with your
foundry furnace. After the gas goes through the meter it comes out at
about, IIRC, at 7psi or something like that. Not enough pressure and
volume to run a foundry furnace.

Bernd

"Tim Killian" wrote in message
...
Natural gas from the meter is regulated at 7 inches water column --
about 1/2 psi. If the meter can supply the required volume in cuft/hr,
it will run kilns and furnaces.

Tim,

I know it will run a furnace since I have natural gas. What I meant is
that I don't believe there is enough pressure and flow to properly run a
"foundry furnace" since you'll need about 30psi to get a flame. That's
my experience with propane for a 5 gallon style furnace and a Ron Reil
burner. So I would think you would need approximately the same amount of
pressure to run on natural gas. The foundry furnace I'm talking about is
al Gingery style. Now the 1/2 psi and a good volume with a blower motor
might work.

Bernd

On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:51:52 -0700, Tim Killian
wrote:
Bernd wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

I'm toying with the idea of running a buried natural gas line out to
the garage for a hot air furnace as well as my foundry furnace (now
propane)

Now that everybody has given you the answers to code problems and other
such stuff, there's one problem with using the natural gas with your
foundry furnace. After the gas goes through the meter it comes out at
about, IIRC, at 7psi or something like that. Not enough pressure and
volume to run a foundry furnace.

Natural gas from the meter is regulated at 7 inches water column --
about 1/2 psi. If the meter can supply the required volume in cuft/hr,
it will run kilns and furnaces.

If you connect it, it will work. But the pipe will be whistling at
very high flow rates, and pressure drop becomes a bigger problem.

If you can get the local gas company to do it, they can deliver the
gas from their regulator and gas meter at 5 or 10 PSI instead of 7" WC
/ ~1/2 PSI, and then you use a second pressure regulator near the
appliance to knock it down to 7" WC. That allows you to flow a lot
more gas for the pipe size and distance involved.

But this is usually used for commercial and industrial applications,
getting a medium-pressure feed done at a residence - even if only for
the line back to the garage workshop - may be a huge problem.

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:45:48 GMT, "Bernd" wrote:
"Tim Killian" wrote in message
...

Natural gas from the meter is regulated at 7 inches water column --
about 1/2 psi. If the meter can supply the required volume in cuft/hr,
it will run kilns and furnaces.

I know it will run a furnace since I have natural gas. What I meant is
that I don't believe there is enough pressure and flow to properly run a
"foundry furnace" since you'll need about 30psi to get a flame. That's
my experience with propane for a 5 gallon style furnace and a Ron Reil
burner. So I would think you would need approximately the same amount of
pressure to run on natural gas. The foundry furnace I'm talking about is
al Gingery style. Now the 1/2 psi and a good volume with a blower motor
might work.

Oh, that's what you meant... ;-) Yes, they use the gas delivery
pressure to get forced air induction, the gas drags the air along and
into the burner. You can do the same thing with an electric powered
forced draft blower on the burner to get the air moving, then the low
gas pressure will mix into the combustion air flow.

This is how they build new hot-air furnaces and commercial water
heater & boiler burners for Low NoX, the forced air and gas runs in
"inshot" burners and gives a nice intense flamefront.

You can also use a draft blower in suction on the flue side of a
sealed combustion chamber, but they are more trouble - the blower
wheel is running in the flue gases and corrosion is a big problem.

Note: If this is going to be running unattended for more than a few
seconds, be sure to add a diaphragm pressure switch on the blower
output, and some sort of 'flame out sensor' linked to the gas valve
control circuit. So if the forced draft blower quits for any reason
the gas is shut off automatically.

(A simple low-tech KISS way to shut off the gas is the old standby
Penn-BASO B-60 valve and a millivolt thermopile pilot light [used in
millions of floor and wall furnaces] with the diaphragm switch in
series, or you can get fancy...) ;-)

-- Bruce --
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.