http://www.hundredpercenter.com/HumveeArmorFacts.html

Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem.
To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized,
merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

Gunner wrote:
http://www.hundredpercenter.com/HumveeArmorFacts.html

Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem.
To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized,
merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

While your facts about Humvee Armor is interesting it still doesn't
cover the real problem. The Humvee armor thing is more about the two
factions with in the department of defense over which paradyme the US
military will embrace over the next 20 to 30 years.

One side in the pentagon is all for this lighter, faster, more agile and
lethal military, (Which interestingly enough is also much cheaper than
the heavy armored forces favored by the more traditional minded of at
the Pentagon. Of course you know which side of the isle the cheaper
military falls on don't you.

The problem with the Humvee is that it wasn't designed to do the job we
are asking it to do, as it was never supposed to be an armored personnel
carrier. Even when armored up the troops in th field don't like it. As
I have talked to a goodly number of returning Oregon national guardsmen
and to the man they support having more APC's and less Humvee s.

As one Guardsman said, you know that when a armored Humvee rolls over on
you you are just as dead as if you had been shot by an AK-47. Check out
he number of GI's that have been killed in traffic accidents verses
those killed in fire fights. (most traffic accidents are vehicle roll overs)


The Independent of Clackamas County

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 17:45:03 -0800, The Independent of Clackamas
County wrote:

Gunner wrote:
http://www.hundredpercenter.com/HumveeArmorFacts.html

Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem.
To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized,
merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

While your facts about Humvee Armor is interesting it still doesn't
cover the real problem. The Humvee armor thing is more about the two
factions with in the department of defense over which paradyme the US
military will embrace over the next 20 to 30 years.

One side in the pentagon is all for this lighter, faster, more agile and
lethal military, (Which interestingly enough is also much cheaper than
the heavy armored forces favored by the more traditional minded of at
the Pentagon. Of course you know which side of the isle the cheaper
military falls on don't you.

The problem with the Humvee is that it wasn't designed to do the job we
are asking it to do, as it was never supposed to be an armored personnel
carrier. Even when armored up the troops in th field don't like it. As
I have talked to a goodly number of returning Oregon national guardsmen
and to the man they support having more APC's and less Humvee s.

As one Guardsman said, you know that when a armored Humvee rolls over on
you you are just as dead as if you had been shot by an AK-47. Check out
he number of GI's that have been killed in traffic accidents verses
those killed in fire fights. (most traffic accidents are vehicle roll overs)


The Independent of Clackamas County


Ayup. Seems like its time to get all those APCs that are stockpiled in
Kuwait dusted off. But then...having armored behemoths running over
little kids is always the way to make friends and influence enemies.
No matter if an RPG will kill one just as well as a Hummer...shrug.

Gunner

"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem.
To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized,
merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show The Independent of
Clackamas County wrote back on Mon, 13 Dec 2004
17:45:03 -0800 in misc.survivalism :
One side in the pentagon is all for this lighter, faster, more agile and
lethal military, (Which interestingly enough is also much cheaper than
the heavy armored forces favored by the more traditional minded of at
the Pentagon. Of course you know which side of the isle the cheaper
military falls on don't you.

Complicating the picture is the old "the better is the enemy of the
good." Seems that one problems Hummers have is the windshield frames can
hold the weight of four layer ballistic glass. Putting a two layer piece
will work, is better than nothing, but the army doesn't want to go with
"interim measures." More of the "Do it right or don't do it at all."
mentality.

--
pyotr filipivich
"MTV may talk about lighting fires and killing children,
but Janet Reno actually does something about it." --Spy Magazine

--The only problem with the Humvee is the Army's insistance on
using it at all; domestic contract and keeping our workers employed making
a ****ty product. If this vehicle had been "outsourced" there would have
been many superior vehicles to choose from and they would have been
cheaper. For a good rundown on the Humvee problem check out the latest
issue of Janes IDR. Check out the ads for similar vehicles, too. Humvee is
the bottom of the barrel for urban assault vehicles; they should all be
driven off a cliff.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Somehow related
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : to Lumpy Adams...
http://www.nmpproducts.com/intro.htm
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show steamer
wrote back on Tue, 14 Dec 2004 18:34:55 GMT in misc.survivalism :
--The only problem with the Humvee is the Army's insistance on
using it at all; domestic contract and keeping our workers employed making
a ****ty product. If this vehicle had been "outsourced" there would have
been many superior vehicles to choose from and they would have been
cheaper. For a good rundown on the Humvee problem check out the latest
issue of Janes IDR. Check out the ads for similar vehicles, too. Humvee is
the bottom of the barrel for urban assault vehicles; they should all be
driven off a cliff.

Minor problem: the HMMWV is not an "urban assault vehicle", it is a
replacement for the Jeep, One Each. It is a "small" personal
transportation mode, not meant for combat operations. Think "staff car"
for those who don't have a staff.
Of course, this being the Army, sooner or later, everything winds up in
combat.

--
pyotr filipivich
"MTV may talk about lighting fires and killing children,
but Janet Reno actually does something about it." --Spy Magazine

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show pyotr filipivich
wrote back on Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:17:06 GMT in
misc.survivalism :
I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show The Independent of
Clackamas County wrote back on Mon, 13 Dec 2004
17:45:03 -0800 in misc.survivalism :
One side in the pentagon is all for this lighter, faster, more agile and
lethal military, (Which interestingly enough is also much cheaper than
the heavy armored forces favored by the more traditional minded of at
the Pentagon. Of course you know which side of the isle the cheaper
military falls on don't you.

Complicating the picture is the old "the better is the enemy of the
good." Seems that one problems Hummers have is the windshield frames can

Dang it, I need a new keyboard. That's suppose to read "the windshield
frames can't hold the weight.."

hold the weight of four layer ballistic glass. Putting a two layer piece
will work, is better than nothing, but the army doesn't want to go with
"interim measures." More of the "Do it right or don't do it at all."
mentality.

--
pyotr filipivich
"MTV may talk about lighting fires and killing children,
but Janet Reno actually does something about it." --Spy Magazine