Hello, all,

I got an autodarkening welding hood on eBay when I got my TIG welder
(Lincoln Square Wave TIG 300) and am still learning my way around the
process.

This is a cheapie Chinese autodark hood with a very green filter.
I went down to Cee-Kay for more Argon and looked at the hoods
they recommend for TIG. Gasp, $450 is a BIT high for my budget.

But, I noticed the filters were much closer to neutral density, and
I could see the red on a US flag with them. With my hood (I took it
with me) the red in the flag was TOTALLY black.

I took the autodark filter module apart and there is a dichroic filter
that looks very reddish-purple in reflection, and very green in
transmission. (It has a piece of clear glass next to it that I'm
assuming is an IR or UV blocking filter.) SO, the question is, can
I swap out this green filter for something closer to neutral density
in color? The LCD unit seems to be a pretty good ND (colorless)
filter by itself.

My problem is I can't see any of the red or yellow color of the
workpiece as it heats up. All I can see is the liquid-look of the weld
pool, but I have no idea how close I'm getting to melting the whole
piece.

I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that despite the staggering light
output of the arc, you can see some red or yellow to tell you the
general heat level of the area around the weld pool when you are
doing TIG with a high-quality autodark hood.

The booklet with the hood indicates it is a # 4 filter when "clear",
so I'm guessing this is essentially the rating of the green filter
I want to replace.

Anybody ever done this, run into this trouble, comments?

Thanks in advance,

Jon

In article rs.com,
Jon Elson wrote:

Hello, all,

I got an autodarkening welding hood on eBay when I got my TIG welder
(Lincoln Square Wave TIG 300) and am still learning my way around the
process.

This is a cheapie Chinese autodark hood with a very green filter.
I went down to Cee-Kay for more Argon and looked at the hoods
they recommend for TIG. Gasp, $450 is a BIT high for my budget.

But, I noticed the filters were much closer to neutral density, and
I could see the red on a US flag with them. With my hood (I took it
with me) the red in the flag was TOTALLY black.

I took the autodark filter module apart and there is a dichroic filter
that looks very reddish-purple in reflection, and very green in
transmission. (It has a piece of clear glass next to it that I'm
assuming is an IR or UV blocking filter.) SO, the question is, can
I swap out this green filter for something closer to neutral density
in color? The LCD unit seems to be a pretty good ND (colorless)
filter by itself.


DO NOT DO THIS.
That lens may suck, but it can't be harmful or they couldn't sell it in
the US.
It had to pass a ANSI and OSHA spec to be sold.
Messing with any of the filters is incredibly dangerous.
Your eyes deserve more respect than that.



My problem is I can't see any of the red or yellow color of the
workpiece as it heats up. All I can see is the liquid-look of the weld
pool, but I have no idea how close I'm getting to melting the whole
piece.

I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that despite the staggering light
output of the arc, you can see some red or yellow to tell you the
general heat level of the area around the weld pool when you are
doing TIG with a high-quality autodark hood.

The booklet with the hood indicates it is a # 4 filter when "clear",
so I'm guessing this is essentially the rating of the green filter
I want to replace.

Anybody ever done this, run into this trouble, comments?

Thanks in advance,

Jon


You can get hoods that will work for TIG down to about $150.
A basic Speedglas 9002F is around there.
Check eBay for better deals on hoods.

Ernie,

I also have one of the el-cheapo auto hoods like Jon's.

I have one hell of a time with AL, telling if I've got a good melt puddle.
(My son has no trouble at all with the same hood - he's a GREAT welder) Will
one of these better hoods help much? Or, as my son says, is it just an
operator problem?

Karl

Jon Elson wrote in message servers.com...
Hello, all,

I got an autodarkening welding hood on eBay when I got my TIG welder
(Lincoln Square Wave TIG 300) and am still learning my way around the
process.

This is a cheapie Chinese autodark hood with a very green filter.
I went down to Cee-Kay for more Argon and looked at the hoods
they recommend for TIG. Gasp, $450 is a BIT high for my budget.

But, I noticed the filters were much closer to neutral density, and
I could see the red on a US flag with them. With my hood (I took it
with me) the red in the flag was TOTALLY black.

I took the autodark filter module apart and there is a dichroic filter
that looks very reddish-purple in reflection, and very green in
transmission. (It has a piece of clear glass next to it that I'm
assuming is an IR or UV blocking filter.) SO, the question is, can
I swap out this green filter for something closer to neutral density
in color? The LCD unit seems to be a pretty good ND (colorless)
filter by itself.

My problem is I can't see any of the red or yellow color of the
workpiece as it heats up. All I can see is the liquid-look of the weld
pool, but I have no idea how close I'm getting to melting the whole
piece.

I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that despite the staggering light
output of the arc, you can see some red or yellow to tell you the
general heat level of the area around the weld pool when you are
doing TIG with a high-quality autodark hood.

The booklet with the hood indicates it is a # 4 filter when "clear",
so I'm guessing this is essentially the rating of the green filter
I want to replace.

Anybody ever done this, run into this trouble, comments?

Thanks in advance,

Jon

Don't forget you're also dealing with UV and IR radiation that can't
be seen, so don't monkey around with those filters. One good case of
solar keratitis in your eyes and $450 seems cheap. Good Jackson and
Speedglas helmets can be had for 2-300.00, especially off Ebay. I have
a Miller auto-dark that was $165.00, I'm not overly impressed with it
and will change to the Jackson in the near future.
Ronnie

In article .net,
Karl Townsend wrote:

Ernie,

I also have one of the el-cheapo auto hoods like Jon's.

I have one hell of a time with AL, telling if I've got a good melt puddle.
(My son has no trouble at all with the same hood - he's a GREAT welder) Will
one of these better hoods help much? Or, as my son says, is it just an
operator problem?

Karl






SOme of it is just individual eyesight, but a better quality hood will
almost always improve the image.

Speedglas and Jackson are my favorites.
Selstrom, Optrel, and Uvex are also good.

Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:

In article rs.com,
Jon Elson wrote:



Hello, all,

I got an autodarkening welding hood on eBay when I got my TIG welder
(Lincoln Square Wave TIG 300) and am still learning my way around the
process.

This is a cheapie Chinese autodark hood with a very green filter.
I went down to Cee-Kay for more Argon and looked at the hoods
they recommend for TIG. Gasp, $450 is a BIT high for my budget.

But, I noticed the filters were much closer to neutral density, and
I could see the red on a US flag with them. With my hood (I took it
with me) the red in the flag was TOTALLY black.

I took the autodark filter module apart and there is a dichroic filter
that looks very reddish-purple in reflection, and very green in
transmission. (It has a piece of clear glass next to it that I'm
assuming is an IR or UV blocking filter.) SO, the question is, can
I swap out this green filter for something closer to neutral density
in color? The LCD unit seems to be a pretty good ND (colorless)
filter by itself.




DO NOT DO THIS.
That lens may suck, but it can't be harmful or they couldn't sell it in
the US.


I have absolutely no intention of just taking the filter OUT, or putting
some random
piece of material in there. I was wondering if there were filters of
this type
available in different color shades, etc. The auto-dark component of
the filter
seems to work fine, and is a pretty neutral color. I just want to get a
more
neutral color to the safety lens, and it seems that $450 is a bit high
just to get
this one piece replaced. I know you can get standard welding filters in a
variety of shades to fit welding hoods of the non-automatic type. Or,
at least,
you USED to be able to buy them.

Jon

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:45:30 +0000, Karl Townsend wrote:

Ernie,

I also have one of the el-cheapo auto hoods like Jon's.

I have one hell of a time with AL, telling if I've got a good melt puddle.
(My son has no trouble at all with the same hood - he's a GREAT welder) Will
one of these better hoods help much? Or, as my son says, is it just an
operator problem?

Do you happen to us bi-focals and are near-sighted? If so adding a
magnifier to the hood is a big help in being able to see what you are
doing. One wants to ping a lens such that the upper portion of the
bi-focal is usable at the close distances that one has when welding.

--
The instructions said to use Windows 98 or better, so I installed RedHat.

Karl,

Try a 2x or 2.5x magnifying lens for your hood. Most good
welding supply shops have them. These were suggested by
my TIG instructor and it sure makes it easy to see what
your doing with the puddle.

Bart D. Hull

Tempe, Arizona

Check http://www.inficad.com/~bdhull/engine.html
for my Subaru Engine Conversion
Check http://www.inficad.com/~bdhull/fuselage.html
for Tango II I'm building.

Remove -nospam to reply via email.



Karl Townsend wrote:

Ernie,

I also have one of the el-cheapo auto hoods like Jon's.

I have one hell of a time with AL, telling if I've got a good melt puddle.
(My son has no trouble at all with the same hood - he's a GREAT welder) Will
one of these better hoods help much? Or, as my son says, is it just an
operator problem?

Karl

Do you happen to us bi-focals and are near-sighted? If so adding a
magnifier to the hood is a big help in being able to see what you are
doing. One wants to ping a lens such that the upper portion of the
bi-focal is usable at the close distances that one has when welding.


This is a real good point. I have to keep my head cocked back to look
through the bottom of my bi-focals or I can't see sh$%. I think I'll pop for
a magnify auto dark glass.

Of course, when it turns out that the kid still welds circles around me, I'm
going to catch a lot of grief. Oh well...

Karl

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:50:23 -0500, Jim Levie
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:45:30 +0000, Karl Townsend wrote:

Ernie,

I also have one of the el-cheapo auto hoods like Jon's.

I have one hell of a time with AL, telling if I've got a good melt puddle.
(My son has no trouble at all with the same hood - he's a GREAT welder) Will
one of these better hoods help much? Or, as my son says, is it just an
operator problem?

Do you happen to us bi-focals and are near-sighted? If so adding a
magnifier to the hood is a big help in being able to see what you are
doing. One wants to ping a lens such that the upper portion of the
bi-focal is usable at the close distances that one has when welding.

I got single focal length glasses with about an 18" focal length for
use under the hood. Side shields, too. Big improvement over the
gradient bifocals I normally wear.

Pete Keillor

What Peter said!!! Still digesting the trifocals after bifocals.

Peter T. Keillor III wrote:

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:50:23 -0500, Jim Levie
wrote:


On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:45:30 +0000, Karl Townsend wrote:


Ernie,

I also have one of the el-cheapo auto hoods like Jon's.

I have one hell of a time with AL, telling if I've got a good melt puddle.
(My son has no trouble at all with the same hood - he's a GREAT welder) Will
one of these better hoods help much? Or, as my son says, is it just an
operator problem?


Do you happen to us bi-focals and are near-sighted? If so adding a
magnifier to the hood is a big help in being able to see what you are
doing. One wants to ping a lens such that the upper portion of the
bi-focal is usable at the close distances that one has when welding.


I got single focal length glasses with about an 18" focal length for
use under the hood. Side shields, too. Big improvement over the
gradient bifocals I normally wear.

Pete Keillor

Karl, I have a Jackson EQC with magnifiers in it, I doubt that I'm
as good a welder as your son is, but I have no excuse of not being
able to see the puddle!

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:26:23 GMT, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:


Do you happen to us bi-focals and are near-sighted? If so adding a
magnifier to the hood is a big help in being able to see what you are
doing. One wants to ping a lens such that the upper portion of the
bi-focal is usable at the close distances that one has when welding.


This is a real good point. I have to keep my head cocked back to look
through the bottom of my bi-focals or I can't see sh$%. I think I'll pop for
a magnify auto dark glass.

Of course, when it turns out that the kid still welds circles around me, I'm
going to catch a lot of grief. Oh well...

Karl

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:43:56 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:
In article rs.com,
Jon Elson wrote:
I took the autodark filter module apart and there is a dichroic filter
that looks very reddish-purple in reflection, and very green in
transmission. (It has a piece of clear glass next to it that I'm
assuming is an IR or UV blocking filter.) SO, the question is, can
I swap out this green filter for something closer to neutral density
in color? The LCD unit seems to be a pretty good ND (colorless)
filter by itself.

DO NOT DO THIS.
That lens may suck, but it can't be harmful or they couldn't sell it in
the US.

I have absolutely no intention of just taking the filter OUT, or putting some random
piece of material in there. I was wondering if there were filters of this type
available in different color shades, etc. The auto-dark component of the filter
seems to work fine, and is a pretty neutral color. I just want to get a more
neutral color to the safety lens, and it seems that $450 is a bit high just to get
this one piece replaced. I know you can get standard welding filters in a
variety of shades to fit welding hoods of the non-automatic type. Or, at least,
you USED to be able to buy them.

The problem is that the dichroic filter in your lens is designed to
*complement* the spectral characteristics of your LCD. If you use
a different filter, it may not properly complement the LCD, and
you could be exposed to harmful levels of UV.

It would *probably* work, but you can't *know* without laboratory
style measurements. Your eyes are too important to depend on
"probably".

Gary

Ernie,

How come nobody ever mentions Huntsman Auto View lenses.

http://www.wesco-gas.com/products/safety/huntsman.html

Is there something wrong with them? I have had one for about 10 years that
has been great.

Randy

Gary Coffman wrote:

The problem is that the dichroic filter in your lens is designed to
*complement* the spectral characteristics of your LCD. If you use
a different filter, it may not properly complement the LCD, and
you could be exposed to harmful levels of UV.

It would *probably* work, but you can't *know* without laboratory
style measurements. Your eyes are too important to depend on
"probably".


Right, I agree, I would want to use a filter designed to work with
an LCD mask, not one for a fixed shade mask. That seems pretty
reasonable.

But, maybe I'm asking the wrong question! Should I be able to see the
color of the weld puddle and surrounding metal with ANY mask at
all? Or, is the glow from the arc and TIG electrode so brilliant that
it washes out all the glow from the workpiece? Maybe I'm after
something that can't exist due to the physics of TIG welding. I started
thinking about this more, as the red or yellow glow from the weld puddle
is not all that much light, while the arc is fantastically bright, and
lights
up the whole area near it with a huge intensity.

Any comments along this line? Do I have to just learn to judge temperature
by how big the weld puddle is, or stop the arc every once in a while to
switch the hood to clear?

Thanks,

Jon

In article
, Randal
O'Brian wrote:

Ernie,

How come nobody ever mentions Huntsman Auto View lenses.

http://www.wesco-gas.com/products/safety/huntsman.html

Is there something wrong with them? I have had one for about 10 years that
has been great.

Randy



Because they are made in the same factory as Jackson, I tend to lump
them in with Jackson.

The Huntsman line is often a little lower in features than the Jackson
line in lenses, but their hoods have better headgear.

Hence why I have my Jackson Nexgen lens in a Huntsman 951P hood.
It can be ordered that way from the factory, but few stores know that.

"Bart D. Hull" wrote in
:

Karl,

Try a 2x or 2.5x magnifying lens for your hood. Most good
welding supply shops have them. These were suggested by
my TIG instructor and it sure makes it easy to see what
your doing with the puddle.

Bart, just got back from Praxair, full bottle, some rod and a 2X magnifying
lens...my AL welding should improve right? :-)
See you tomorrow!

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:53:42 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:


But, maybe I'm asking the wrong question! Should I be able to see the
color of the weld puddle and surrounding metal with ANY mask at all? Or,
is the glow from the arc and TIG electrode so brilliant that it washes out
all the glow from the workpiece?

I've never been able to see anything other than the light from the arc.
It's many times brighter than the metal.

Any comments along this line? Do I have to just learn to judge
temperature by how big the weld puddle is, or stop the arc every once in
a while to switch the hood to clear?

Learning to judge how much current to dial in for the weld you are making
is part of the trick. You might have your son get things set up and
complete part of a weld and let him watch what you're doing. You'd know
the heat would be right so then it's just a matter of technique. In my
hands I find that less current (or a smaller tip/flame on oxyacetylene)
works better, if a bit slower, and there's less risk of melting through
the parts.

--
The instructions said to use Windows 98 or better, so I installed RedHat.

Jim Levie wrote:
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:53:42 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:


But, maybe I'm asking the wrong question! Should I be able to see the
color of the weld puddle and surrounding metal with ANY mask at all? Or,
is the glow from the arc and TIG electrode so brilliant that it washes out
all the glow from the workpiece?


I've never been able to see anything other than the light from the arc.
It's many times brighter than the metal.

Any comments along this line? Do I have to just learn to judge
temperature by how big the weld puddle is, or stop the arc every once in
a while to switch the hood to clear?


Learning to judge how much current to dial in for the weld you are making
is part of the trick. You might have your son get things set up and
complete part of a weld and let him watch what you're doing. You'd know
the heat would be right so then it's just a matter of technique. In my
hands I find that less current (or a smaller tip/flame on oxyacetylene)
works better, if a bit slower, and there's less risk of melting through
the parts.


Sorry, MY son is not the pro welder (at least not yet). I have a finger
control on this Lincoln machine, so I can turn it up and down as I go.
My problem that started this thread is that I can't see any difference
in "color" around the weld pool as the material heats up. I am used to
being able to see this with stick welding, and can control the heat to
some extent before things melt completely and fall to the floor. I get
NO HINT of light from the workpiece to tell me how hot things are
getting. Now, maybe this is the difference between stick and TIG, and
the brightness of the arc and electrode totally wash out any light
emitted by the work. If so, grumbling about the green tint of the
auto-dark mask is NOT the problem! The more I think about this, the
more I think this may actually be the case! Any comments comparing
visibility between TIG and stick? What cues do you use to tell when you
are getting close to overheating the work?

Jon (still in the EARLY learning stage with TIG)

Jon Elson wrote in
rvers.com:

Jim Levie wrote:
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:53:42 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:


But, maybe I'm asking the wrong question! Should I be able to see
the color of the weld puddle and surrounding metal with ANY mask at
all? Or, is the glow from the arc and TIG electrode so brilliant
that it washes out all the glow from the workpiece?


I've never been able to see anything other than the light from the
arc. It's many times brighter than the metal.

Any comments along this line? Do I have to just learn to judge
temperature by how big the weld puddle is, or stop the arc every once
in a while to switch the hood to clear?


Learning to judge how much current to dial in for the weld you are
making is part of the trick. You might have your son get things set
up and complete part of a weld and let him watch what you're doing.
You'd know the heat would be right so then it's just a matter of
technique. In my hands I find that less current (or a smaller
tip/flame on oxyacetylene) works better, if a bit slower, and there's
less risk of melting through the parts.


Sorry, MY son is not the pro welder (at least not yet). I have a
finger control on this Lincoln machine, so I can turn it up and down
as I go. My problem that started this thread is that I can't see any
difference in "color" around the weld pool as the material heats up.
I am used to being able to see this with stick welding, and can
control the heat to some extent before things melt completely and fall
to the floor. I get NO HINT of light from the workpiece to tell me
how hot things are getting. Now, maybe this is the difference between
stick and TIG, and the brightness of the arc and electrode totally
wash out any light emitted by the work. If so, grumbling about the
green tint of the auto-dark mask is NOT the problem! The more I think
about this, the more I think this may actually be the case! Any
comments comparing visibility between TIG and stick? What cues do you
use to tell when you are getting close to overheating the work?

Jon (still in the EARLY learning stage with TIG)

In my case, never having welded aluminum before, I had a local club
member come over to check things out and he gave me some pointers. What
he told me to watch for was the shiny spot, that shiny spot on the
aluminum is the weld pool and what to watch for. The tough thing for me
was not developing the "shiny spot" rather, learning to back off the heat
and not weld too hot...never going to get that "stacked look of dimes"
that way. I did manage to do it a couple times. I know this is gonna take
a bunch of practice!

I use a NexGen EQC, I also picked up a 2X magnification lens, should help
the aging eyes. TIG demo today at my house, going to have a crowd of club
members there!

Marty

Marty Escarcega wrote:


In my case, never having welded aluminum before, I had a local club
member come over to check things out and he gave me some pointers. What
he told me to watch for was the shiny spot, that shiny spot on the
aluminum is the weld pool and what to watch for. The tough thing for me
was not developing the "shiny spot" rather, learning to back off the heat
and not weld too hot...never going to get that "stacked look of dimes"
that way. I did manage to do it a couple times. I know this is gonna take
a bunch of practice!

I use a NexGen EQC, I also picked up a 2X magnification lens, should help
the aging eyes. TIG demo today at my house, going to have a crowd of club
members there!
I don't think magnification is any problem. Doing test samples, I can
get plenty close to see what I'm doing. The "shiny spot" is quite
clear. I guess the idea is to keep that weld pool very small.

I hadn't found my thoriated electrodes when I was last trying the
aluminum, and was having a HELL of a problem with pure Tungsten
electrodes. I found those Thoriated electrodes, and they made a huge
difference when welding steel. So, I will have to try a few pieces of
aluminum and see how it works. I just got a refill on the Argon bottle.

Jon

Jon Elson wrote:

I hadn't found my thoriated electrodes when I was last trying the
aluminum, and was having a HELL of a problem with pure Tungsten
electrodes. I found those Thoriated electrodes, and they made a huge
difference when welding steel.

They would. Thoriated work fine on DC (steel) but NOT on AC
(Aluminum). You need Zirconated or one of the newer types Ernie has
recommended for AC.

Ted