I bought a couple straight holders and some TNMG 1604 (Iron Root)
inserts a while back. Shipped from China. I bought a bunch of bright
and some coated ones. So far I have just used one point on one bright
insert. Its turned some stainless 304 pens before Christmas. A few
days ago I used it to turn down the hard HSS shank on a carbide chucking
reamer. Today I was turn a roughly 2 x 2 square aluminum assembly with
stainless pins and screws through it down to a 1 inch round. Not much
feed, but a lot of depth of cut. I had it going THUNK THUNK THUNK
pretty darned hard to get the corners off, and when I got into the pins
I was still taking off a lot. I'm going to have to finish to final
dimension with the insert, because I no amount of polishing could match
the finish I am seeing. I've put aluminum on the buffing wheel that
doesn't look that shiny.

So, I guess my question is this. Can I run this same insert in a right
hand, left hand, and boring holder and expect similar results?
Obviously insert tools set up for them at the proper angle. Not just
any old insert tool.

Just one point so far, and there are six of them on each insert. Holy
crap! I bought two boxes of them because they were cheap and I figured
I'd go through them pretty quick.

Haven't even tried the coated ones yet. In fact I forgot I had them
until I dug in the lathe tool cart to look up what these inserts are. DANG!

On Tuesday, July 3, 2018 at 10:27:50 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:


So, I guess my question is this. Can I run this same insert in a right
hand, left hand, and boring holder and expect similar results?
Obviously insert tools set up for them at the proper angle. Not just
any old insert tool.


Since no one else has replied............... I think you can use the same insert on both right and left holders. And in a boring bar, but would not expect the boring bar to be as stiff. Carbide comes in different grades. Some are harder, some less likely to chip. So what you have may not be the best for a job, but I think it can be used.

Now for something completely diffecent. Can anyone explain why they use the shape they use. I have a couple of holders that use triangle inserts. Why would I want a different shape? Why is as 86 degree so popular? Why is a Square not as popular? Where is there information on choosing an insert shape.
CarbideDepot.com has a pretty good chart on insert designations, but not on choosing an insert shape.

Dan

On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 13:43:42 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, July 3, 2018 at 10:27:50 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:


So, I guess my question is this. Can I run this same insert in a right
hand, left hand, and boring holder and expect similar results?
Obviously insert tools set up for them at the proper angle. Not just
any old insert tool.


Since no one else has replied............... I think you can use the same insert on both right and left holders. And in a boring bar, but would not expect the boring bar to be as stiff. Carbide comes in different grades. Some are harder, some less likely to chip. So what you have may not be the best for a job, but I think it can be used.

Now for something completely diffecent. Can anyone explain why they use the shape they use. I have a couple of holders that use triangle inserts. Why would I want a different shape? Why is as 86 degree so popular? Why is a Square not as popular? Where is there information on choosing an insert shape.
CarbideDepot.com has a pretty good chart on insert designations, but not on choosing an insert shape.

Dan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFQVTYh-Tjw

http://www.carbidedepot.com/resources.htm

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/arc...p/t-25756.html

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...mvztdLOxSd6UZH

https://www.ebay.com/gds/Carbide-Ins...7627179/g.html

https://www.mmsonline.com/articles/t...milling-insert

I hope I presented these links in a logical order, where one brings
one up to a knowledge level to understand the next one.


I should mention that inserts are not just lathe tools..but are used
in milling cutters along with drill bits.

I probably have humm...6 basic types of inserts (and holders) ..and in
total..probably have 60 lbs of inserts of these types and 25 or so
insert holders, from round to square. Each has their place, with some
being able to do two types of jobs (or more) at the same time, simply
using a different set up.

Most..not all..but most modern inserts are right/center/left handed.
Many of the older inserts (and holders) are either right or center
handed. You asked a question about square not being popular. Square
inserts are used to cut either square bottomed grooves, or when used
in a mill..to cut square corners in tight spots at high speeds. Now
if you are asking about Parallegram shaped inserts..these are
typically used for od cutting of long surfaces in gnarly material.
Most will be negative rake..and are used to dig DEEP into the
material, with .100 deep cuts being the norm on machines on the large
end of "hobby shop" type machines.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...8sP3UzstWkvQFJ


Gunner



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On 7/4/2018 2:31 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 13:43:42 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, July 3, 2018 at 10:27:50 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:


So, I guess my question is this. Can I run this same insert in a right
hand, left hand, and boring holder and expect similar results?
Obviously insert tools set up for them at the proper angle. Not just
any old insert tool.


Since no one else has replied............... I think you can use the same insert on both right and left holders. And in a boring bar, but would not expect the boring bar to be as stiff. Carbide comes in different grades. Some are harder, some less likely to chip. So what you have may not be the best for a job, but I think it can be used.

Now for something completely diffecent. Can anyone explain why they use the shape they use. I have a couple of holders that use triangle inserts. Why would I want a different shape? Why is as 86 degree so popular? Why is a Square not as popular? Where is there information on choosing an insert shape.
CarbideDepot.com has a pretty good chart on insert designations, but not on choosing an insert shape.

Dan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFQVTYh-Tjw

http://www.carbidedepot.com/resources.htm

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/arc...p/t-25756.html

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...mvztdLOxSd6UZH

https://www.ebay.com/gds/Carbide-Ins...7627179/g.html

https://www.mmsonline.com/articles/t...milling-insert

I hope I presented these links in a logical order, where one brings
one up to a knowledge level to understand the next one.


I should mention that inserts are not just lathe tools..but are used
in milling cutters along with drill bits.

I probably have humm...6 basic types of inserts (and holders) ..and in
total..probably have 60 lbs of inserts of these types and 25 or so
insert holders, from round to square. Each has their place, with some
being able to do two types of jobs (or more) at the same time, simply
using a different set up.

Most..not all..but most modern inserts are right/center/left handed.
Many of the older inserts (and holders) are either right or center
handed. You asked a question about square not being popular. Square
inserts are used to cut either square bottomed grooves, or when used
in a mill..to cut square corners in tight spots at high speeds. Now
if you are asking about Parallegram shaped inserts..these are
typically used for od cutting of long surfaces in gnarly material.
Most will be negative rake..and are used to dig DEEP into the
material, with .100 deep cuts being the norm on machines on the large
end of "hobby shop" type machines.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...8sP3UzstWkvQFJ



I'll review some of those videos. I learn a lot from YouTUbe guys.
Sometimes how not to do things, but I learn LOL.

These are not my first insert tooling. Just the best results I've ever
had. I'm totally blown away with how badly I have abused this one
insert, and I just did a fine finish pass with it that looks almost like
a mirror.

On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 20:06:43 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:

On 7/4/2018 2:31 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 13:43:42 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Tuesday, July 3, 2018 at 10:27:50 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:


So, I guess my question is this. Can I run this same insert in a right
hand, left hand, and boring holder and expect similar results?
Obviously insert tools set up for them at the proper angle. Not just
any old insert tool.


Since no one else has replied............... I think you can use the same insert on both right and left holders. And in a boring bar, but would not expect the boring bar to be as stiff. Carbide comes in different grades. Some are harder, some less likely to chip. So what you have may not be the best for a job, but I think it can be used.

Now for something completely diffecent. Can anyone explain why they use the shape they use. I have a couple of holders that use triangle inserts. Why would I want a different shape? Why is as 86 degree so popular? Why is a Square not as popular? Where is there information on choosing an insert shape.
CarbideDepot.com has a pretty good chart on insert designations, but not on choosing an insert shape.

Dan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFQVTYh-Tjw

http://www.carbidedepot.com/resources.htm

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/arc...p/t-25756.html

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...mvztdLOxSd6UZH

https://www.ebay.com/gds/Carbide-Ins...7627179/g.html

https://www.mmsonline.com/articles/t...milling-insert

I hope I presented these links in a logical order, where one brings
one up to a knowledge level to understand the next one.


I should mention that inserts are not just lathe tools..but are used
in milling cutters along with drill bits.

I probably have humm...6 basic types of inserts (and holders) ..and in
total..probably have 60 lbs of inserts of these types and 25 or so
insert holders, from round to square. Each has their place, with some
being able to do two types of jobs (or more) at the same time, simply
using a different set up.

Most..not all..but most modern inserts are right/center/left handed.
Many of the older inserts (and holders) are either right or center
handed. You asked a question about square not being popular. Square
inserts are used to cut either square bottomed grooves, or when used
in a mill..to cut square corners in tight spots at high speeds. Now
if you are asking about Parallegram shaped inserts..these are
typically used for od cutting of long surfaces in gnarly material.
Most will be negative rake..and are used to dig DEEP into the
material, with .100 deep cuts being the norm on machines on the large
end of "hobby shop" type machines.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...8sP3UzstWkvQFJ



I'll review some of those videos. I learn a lot from YouTUbe guys.
Sometimes how not to do things, but I learn LOL.

These are not my first insert tooling. Just the best results I've ever
had. I'm totally blown away with how badly I have abused this one
insert, and I just did a fine finish pass with it that looks almost like
a mirror.


Review ALL of the links I provided. You will learn a great deal in a
short amount of time. I picked them for their relevance and content.

And yeah..I do know a smidgeon about insert tooling..given that I have
spent the last 22 years working in machine shops.

Am I an expert? **** no..but...shrug..review the links and learn
something.


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On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 8:37:20 AM UTC-4, Gunner Asch wrote:
..

Am I an expert? **** no..but...shrug..review the links and learn
something.


---
Thanks. That is a great selection of information on inserts. It will take me some time to absorb all of what you posted.

Dan

wrote in message
...

On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 8:37:20 AM UTC-4, Gunner Asch wrote:
..

Am I an expert? **** no..but...shrug..review the links and learn
something.


---
Thanks. That is a great selection of information on inserts. It will take
me some time to absorb all of what you posted.

Dan

*************
The first video "Inserts for Noobs by a Noob" was ok, but it didn't really
do anything for insert selection. I already knew most of the letter
designations, and I have a copy of the Engineer's Black Book next to the
keyboard on my desk with a nice lookup table for the rest. Found a table of
usage (choosing an insert) for the various shapes on the Carbide Depot site.
That was really useful. Interestingly a triangle (T) had more boxes checked
in usage than any other shape. Roughing was not listed as high as others,
but it was checked. Hard materials was not checked, but maybe a zero rake
angle (N) makes the triangle insert I was using just strong enough since I
have used it for 4140QT (medium hard) and HSS (harder) with good results. I
may print a copy of that table and add it to my "Pink Book." The Pink Book
is a 3 ring binder my daughter gave me that I keep copies of useful tables
in on the shop floor. It provides faster reference than the Machinery's
Handbook (my copy is circa WWII) or even my more current Engineer's Black
Book.

I have not yet gone through all the provided material, but there is atleast
one jewel in the mix already. Its enough to tell me I may want to pick up
atleast a right hand and left hand TNMG insert holder in the same size as
my straight holder, and take a couple other less often used tools out of my
tool holders.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
news
wrote in message
...

...Found a table of usage (choosing an insert) for the various
shapes on the Carbide Depot site. That was really useful.
Interestingly a triangle (T) had more boxes checked in usage than
any other shape. Roughing was not listed as high as others, but it
was checked. Hard materials was not checked, but maybe a zero rake
angle (N) makes the triangle insert I was using just strong enough
since I have used it for 4140QT (medium hard) and HSS (harder) with
good results. ...

This one?
http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-insert-shape.htm

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
news
wrote in message
...

...Found a table of usage (choosing an insert) for the various
shapes on the Carbide Depot site. That was really useful.
Interestingly a triangle (T) had more boxes checked in usage than
any other shape. Roughing was not listed as high as others, but it
was checked. Hard materials was not checked, but maybe a zero rake
angle (N) makes the triangle insert I was using just strong enough
since I have used it for 4140QT (medium hard) and HSS (harder) with
good results. ...

This one?
http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-insert-shape.htm

*******************

Yep, that's the one.

On Fri, 6 Jul 2018 08:40:33 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
...

On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 8:37:20 AM UTC-4, Gunner Asch wrote:
.

Am I an expert? **** no..but...shrug..review the links and learn
something.


---
Thanks. That is a great selection of information on inserts. It will take
me some time to absorb all of what you posted.

Dan

*************
The first video "Inserts for Noobs by a Noob" was ok, but it didn't really
do anything for insert selection. I already knew most of the letter
designations, and I have a copy of the Engineer's Black Book next to the
keyboard on my desk with a nice lookup table for the rest. Found a table of
usage (choosing an insert) for the various shapes on the Carbide Depot site.
That was really useful. Interestingly a triangle (T) had more boxes checked
in usage than any other shape. Roughing was not listed as high as others,
but it was checked. Hard materials was not checked, but maybe a zero rake
angle (N) makes the triangle insert I was using just strong enough since I
have used it for 4140QT (medium hard) and HSS (harder) with good results. I
may print a copy of that table and add it to my "Pink Book." The Pink Book
is a 3 ring binder my daughter gave me that I keep copies of useful tables
in on the shop floor. It provides faster reference than the Machinery's
Handbook (my copy is circa WWII) or even my more current Engineer's Black
Book.

I have not yet gone through all the provided material, but there is atleast
one jewel in the mix already. Its enough to tell me I may want to pick up
atleast a right hand and left hand TNMG insert holder in the same size as
my straight holder, and take a couple other less often used tools out of my
tool holders.


I didnt know what you knew..so started you off from the very
beginning. Glad you are crusing right along.

Gunner

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