Hi Guys,

Two Welders:
Welder 1: Weld-pak100.
Is there any way to convert this to 220v? They make a similar 220 version and I am wondering if it is just a wiring thing to the transformer. The wiring diagram -- Page 47,
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...ln3/imt460.pdf

This shows three H2 connections. Is the 220v version just wired with a different plug and cable using the third H2? If so, can someone please give me an amended diagram on how to do this to reduce Amp draw.

Welder 2: Power MIG 255
When I bought this many years back the weld-shop guy gave me a stubby extension cable that plugs the welder to a dryer outlet. I have used the welder for 10+ years in an outlying shed at a hobby level and never had an issue popping dual-20A breakers.

For reasons yet to be understood, {grin} yesterday I got to reading the back panel and it stated 50A-Outlet. Holy **** Batman! But nothing even gets warm at the outlet or the wires leading to it.

I set it up with a clamp meter on one wire and my phone recording video of the meter and it peaked for about 1/4-second at 23.7A. But it mostly stayed around the 20A - 22A marks. Obviously that was not enough to trip the breakers under intermittent load, thus never having had a problem.

Now if you are about to jump on me about burning the shed down then go warn someone else, I don't really give a ****. Over the years, I have put through probably 5 large reels of wire and nary a popped breaker. I put in two new 20A breakers yesterday just in case and they never popped either.

Now here's the question, should I really run three 250-feet lengths of 25A-rated (or whatever) wire from the house panel just to be sure --or-- not bother until I pop the breakers -- if ever?

Helpful thoughts other than mindless cautionary trolling?

Might just mention awesome welder, makes me look better at it than I really am.

On Thursday, May 24, 2018 at 11:11:41 AM UTC-4, Dave, I can't do that wrote:
Hi Guys,

For reasons yet to be understood, {grin} yesterday I got to reading the back panel and it stated 50A-Outlet. Holy **** Batman! But nothing even gets warm at the outlet or the wires leading to it.

I set it up with a clamp meter on one wire and my phone recording video of the meter and it peaked for about 1/4-second at 23.7A. But it mostly stayed around the 20A - 22A marks. Obviously that was not enough to trip the breakers under intermittent load, thus never having had a pr
Two Welders:
Welder 1: Weld-pak100.
Is there any way to convert this to 220v? They make a similar 220 version and I am wondering if it is just a wiring thing to the transformer. The wiring diagram -- Page 47,
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...or-publicither.

Now here's the question, should I really run three 250-feet lengths of 25A-rated (or whatever) wire from the house panel just to be sure --or-- not bother until I pop the breakers -- if ever?

Helpful thoughts other than mindless cautionary trolling?

Might just mention awesome welder, makes me look better at it than I really am.

The wiring diagram only shows two connections for the power coming in. That pretty much says the only way to convert it to 220 is to replace the transformer or sell the welder and buy one that is 220 v input.

Lincoln would be advertising it as being good on 120 and 220 if it were.

Some where in the electrical code is a paragraph that says that welders can be used on circuits that are not rated for as much current as the welder uses at full output. I don't have a copy of the electric code so can't quote the exact verbiage
\
Dan.

On 2018-05-24, wrote:
On Thursday, May 24, 2018 at 11:11:41 AM UTC-4, Dave, I can't do that wrote:
Hi Guys,

For reasons yet to be understood, {grin} yesterday I got to reading the back panel and it stated 50A-Outlet. Holy **** Batman! But nothing even gets warm at the outlet or the wires leading to it.

I set it up with a clamp meter on one wire and my phone recording video of the meter and it peaked for about 1/4-second at 23.7A. But it mostly stayed around the 20A - 22A marks. Obviously that was not enough to trip the breakers under intermittent load, thus never having had a pr
Two Welders:
Welder 1: Weld-pak100.
Is there any way to convert this to 220v? They make a similar 220 version and I am wondering if it is just a wiring thing to the transformer. The wiring diagram -- Page 47,
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...or-publicither.

[ ... ]

Helpful thoughts other than mindless cautionary trolling?

The wiring diagram only shows two connections for the power coming in.
That pretty much says the only way to convert it to 220 is to replace
the transformer or sell the welder and buy one that is 220 v input.

And -- if a new transformer, you would also need a third tap ont
he transformer, so it could drop the 240 VAC to 120 VAC for the fan and
the gas solenoid, both of which are rated at 120 VAC.

You would also need a step-down transformer for the feeds to the
control PC board, too, to keep from frying it.

Lincoln would be advertising it as being good on 120 and 220 if it were.

Some where in the electrical code is a paragraph that says that
welders can be used on circuits that are not rated for as much current
as the welder uses at full output. I don't have a copy of the electric
code so can't quote the exact verbiage

So -- if you don't use full output current, you can get away
with lower input current. The real clue that you need more input
current is if you trip the circuit breaker. :-)

Dan.


--
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On 5/24/2018 10:11 AM, Dave, I can't do that wrote:
Hi Guys,

Two Welders:
Welder 1: Weld-pak100.
Is there any way to convert this to 220v? They make a similar 220 version and I am wondering if it is just a wiring thing to the transformer. The wiring diagram -- Page 47,
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...ln3/imt460.pdf

This shows three H2 connections. Is the 220v version just wired with a different plug and cable using the third H2? If so, can someone please give me an amended diagram on how to do this to reduce Amp draw.

Welder 2: Power MIG 255
When I bought this many years back the weld-shop guy gave me a stubby extension cable that plugs the welder to a dryer outlet. I have used the welder for 10+ years in an outlying shed at a hobby level and never had an issue popping dual-20A breakers.

For reasons yet to be understood, {grin} yesterday I got to reading the back panel and it stated 50A-Outlet. Holy **** Batman! But nothing even gets warm at the outlet or the wires leading to it.

I set it up with a clamp meter on one wire and my phone recording video of the meter and it peaked for about 1/4-second at 23.7A. But it mostly stayed around the 20A - 22A marks. Obviously that was not enough to trip the breakers under intermittent load, thus never having had a problem.

Now if you are about to jump on me about burning the shed down then go warn someone else, I don't really give a ****. Over the years, I have put through probably 5 large reels of wire and nary a popped breaker. I put in two new 20A breakers yesterday just in case and they never popped either.

Now here's the question, should I really run three 250-feet lengths of 25A-rated (or whatever) wire from the house panel just to be sure --or-- not bother until I pop the breakers -- if ever?

Helpful thoughts other than mindless cautionary trolling?

Might just mention awesome welder, makes me look better at it than I really am.

Â*Â* I have a Weldpak100 also , and no it's not convertible to 220 - or I
would . Best thing you can do is be sure if you use an extension cord
that it's heavy enough - 12ga preferred . BTW , is yours set up for
shield gas ?Â* As far as the other welder , if it's working fine I don't
see any reason the change anything . If you start doing heavier welding
and it starts popping the breaker , then it's time to upgrade .

--
Snag
Ain't no dollar sign on
peace of mind - Zac Brown

On Thu, 24 May 2018 08:11:37 -0700 (PDT), "Dave, I can't do that"
wrote:


http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...ln3/imt460.pdf

This shows three H2 connections. Is the 220v version just wired with a different plug and cable using the third H2? If so, can someone please give me an amended diagram on how to do this to reduce Amp draw.

I only see one connection to the transformer primary, H1 and H2. The
secondary has several taps that go to the voltage control switch on
the front panel.

If you found a 240 volt transformer, you'd also need to change the fan
and the gas solenoid valve and maybe the control board to 240 volts.

Welder 2: Power MIG 255

Now here's the question, should I really run three 250-feet lengths of 25A-rated (or whatever) wire from the house panel just to be sure --or-- not bother until I pop the breakers -- if ever?

One would hope that the electrician ran #8 or #6 Type NM direct burial
wire. If he used lighter wire then you'll be losing significant
voltage through that wire. If the voltage drop causes you to have to
go to a higher voltage setting on the welder then the welder will draw
more current that if it had the proper voltage.

I would not recommend running multiple lengths of lightweight wire.
First, it will be expensive. Second reason is that while you're
digging in the dirt, you might sever one strand and not realize it.

It should be cheaper to simply abandon the old cable in place and run
the correct size cable. Renting a dirt slitter will make the job very
easy.

It is very unlikely that the home-type breaker will ever trip. Several
years ago when we were looking to have our inductor heaters certified,
I had a long talk with an ETL engineer, mainly about breaker
selection. I was thinking that I'd use a residential-type breaker.
This guy said NO! He said that residential breakers are designed to
carry twice the rated load for a minute. That would have been plenty
of time for the induction heater to become crispy inside. In the end I
found a ChiCom magnetic hydraulic breaker with the second fastest
curve. The fastest is instantaneous.

I tested a sample of the breaker with a direct short while looking at
the current with a Rowkowsky coil. It tripped in a quarter-cycle. I
never knew breakers could be that fast.

Back on-topic, it's very unlikely that you'll trip the panel breaker.
You probably don't need to do anything BUT make sure. You need to
measure the voltage at the welder outlet. A meter with max/min hold
is ideal. Second best is to use your smart phone to video the
multi-meter's display.

Get that set up and then go do some welding. Set the voltage as high
as you'd ever run it and weld away. Then check your min/max meter or
the video and see what you got. At a 5 volt sag, I'd think hard about
doing something. At 10 volt sag, I'd definitely install larger
wiring. While you're laying the new cable, also lay a run of white
THHN wire of the same gauge into the trench.

That can be your neutral wire which will allow you both 120 and 240
volt outlets in the shop. You can't just connect both the ground and
neutral connections together in your sub-panel. That is both
dangerous and it'll instantly trip any GFI-equipped appliance.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

On Fri, 25 May 2018 14:53:55 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Thu, 24 May 2018 08:11:37 -0700 (PDT), "Dave, I can't do that"
wrote:


http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...ln3/imt460.pdf

This shows three H2 connections. Is the 220v version just wired with a different plug and cable using the third H2? If so, can someone please give me an amended diagram on how to do this to reduce Amp draw.

I only see one connection to the transformer primary, H1 and H2. The
secondary has several taps that go to the voltage control switch on
the front panel.

If you found a 240 volt transformer, you'd also need to change the fan
and the gas solenoid valve and maybe the control board to 240 volts.

Unless you got a 120/240 transformer and ran the control and gas
solenoid off the centertap like any intelligent manufacturer would.
Qwuitr possibly the control board and gas valve are already running
off 12 or 24 volts anyway.


Welder 2: Power MIG 255

Now here's the question, should I really run three 250-feet lengths of 25A-rated (or whatever) wire from the house panel just to be sure --or-- not bother until I pop the breakers -- if ever?

One would hope that the electrician ran #8 or #6 Type NM direct burial
wire. If he used lighter wire then you'll be losing significant
voltage through that wire. If the voltage drop causes you to have to
go to a higher voltage setting on the welder then the welder will draw
more current that if it had the proper voltage.

I would not recommend running multiple lengths of lightweight wire.
First, it will be expensive. Second reason is that while you're
digging in the dirt, you might sever one strand and not realize it.

It should be cheaper to simply abandon the old cable in place and run
the correct size cable. Renting a dirt slitter will make the job very
easy.

It is very unlikely that the home-type breaker will ever trip. Several
years ago when we were looking to have our inductor heaters certified,
I had a long talk with an ETL engineer, mainly about breaker
selection. I was thinking that I'd use a residential-type breaker.
This guy said NO! He said that residential breakers are designed to
carry twice the rated load for a minute. That would have been plenty
of time for the induction heater to become crispy inside. In the end I
found a ChiCom magnetic hydraulic breaker with the second fastest
curve. The fastest is instantaneous.

I tested a sample of the breaker with a direct short while looking at
the current with a Rowkowsky coil. It tripped in a quarter-cycle. I
never knew breakers could be that fast.

Back on-topic, it's very unlikely that you'll trip the panel breaker.
You probably don't need to do anything BUT make sure. You need to
measure the voltage at the welder outlet. A meter with max/min hold
is ideal. Second best is to use your smart phone to video the
multi-meter's display.

Get that set up and then go do some welding. Set the voltage as high
as you'd ever run it and weld away. Then check your min/max meter or
the video and see what you got. At a 5 volt sag, I'd think hard about
doing something. At 10 volt sag, I'd definitely install larger
wiring. While you're laying the new cable, also lay a run of white
THHN wire of the same gauge into the trench.

That can be your neutral wire which will allow you both 120 and 240
volt outlets in the shop. You can't just connect both the ground and
neutral connections together in your sub-panel. That is both
dangerous and it'll instantly trip any GFI-equipped appliance.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

On 5/24/2018 8:11 AM, Dave, I can't do that wrote:
Hi Guys,

Two Welders:
Welder 1: Weld-pak100.
Is there any way to convert this to 220v? They make a similar 220 version and I am wondering if it is just a wiring thing to the transformer. The wiring diagram -- Page 47,
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...ln3/imt460.pdf

This shows three H2 connections. Is the 220v version just wired with a different plug and cable using the third H2? If so, can someone please give me an amended diagram on how to do this to reduce Amp draw.

Welder 2: Power MIG 255
When I bought this many years back the weld-shop guy gave me a stubby extension cable that plugs the welder to a dryer outlet. I have used the welder for 10+ years in an outlying shed at a hobby level and never had an issue popping dual-20A breakers.

For reasons yet to be understood, {grin} yesterday I got to reading the back panel and it stated 50A-Outlet. Holy **** Batman! But nothing even gets warm at the outlet or the wires leading to it.

I set it up with a clamp meter on one wire and my phone recording video of the meter and it peaked for about 1/4-second at 23.7A. But it mostly stayed around the 20A - 22A marks. Obviously that was not enough to trip the breakers under intermittent load, thus never having had a problem.

Now if you are about to jump on me about burning the shed down then go warn someone else, I don't really give a ****. Over the years, I have put through probably 5 large reels of wire and nary a popped breaker. I put in two new 20A breakers yesterday just in case and they never popped either.

Now here's the question, should I really run three 250-feet lengths of 25A-rated (or whatever) wire from the house panel just to be sure --or-- not bother until I pop the breakers -- if ever?

Helpful thoughts other than mindless cautionary trolling?

Might just mention awesome welder, makes me look better at it than I really am.


Break out your meter:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/AC-WORKS...-100/303426691

Very likely a 30 AMP 120V outlet.