On 05/19/2016 11:32 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
....

I saw them in electronic labs, cubicles and light manufacturing plants
where the floor layout changed for new products or equipment. IIRC the
drops hung low enough to be tied to benches or were coiled and
tie-wrapped above head height in more open areas. They might be a
nuisance in a wood shop where you handle long stock.
....

Can be (nuisance, that is) in some geometries; it's better if can have
raised floor so everything is out of the way, certainly.

But, in some layouts it can be arranged so there's not a need to swing
long stock in the direction where the ceiling drop will interfere; in
others, "not so much".

The planer for which this run is being done sits along an outside wall
and has dedicated outlet for it on that wall -- it's arranged to be a
little closer on the exit end to a door(*) so anything up to 18-ft can
be handled easily. _Really_ long stuff could actually be fed thru
another partition break and, theoretically at least, go in the door on
the opposite end of the barn and all the way thru!

(*) This corner of the barn originally held the milking stalls; they
were removed 60 yr ago when put in the feedmill bins in the mow and the
elevator leg and roller mill, etc. We no longer run the feed lot or
cattle so I've dismantled the chutes from the bins to the return leg so
there's about 10' x 32' open area outside the outer column row. The
planer takes up a fair chunk of the width where it sits; while I've not
actually taken a measurement it's at least 4' wide as the motor is
mounted on a bolt-on stand on one side so it adds almost 2' on its own...

The TS sits in another corner at the moment in a section where it has
only 10' or so unobstructed. That corner was the only area that was
still dry when we came back to the farm after Dad died; he had decided
not to invest any more in the old barn so it hadn't been re-roofed.
That was the first major project after--almost 3 full years of fairly
major rework including the roof. Hired hand deserted over one Christmas
while we were off visiting daughter in WA and that kinda' brought the
project to a halt with so much to get done with only me...I'm trying to
get back to it...

--

--

On Thu, 19 May 2016 10:36:13 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 05/19/2016 9:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 05/18/2016 3:06 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
...

So you probably know about overhead service drop cord, then?

Yeah, sorta' at least but don't get the connection (so to speak
)???
...

Conduit on the ceiling, drops to the machines.

Well, yeah, that I got; just couldn't see that it had any bearing on
previous comment...it's what I've done for stationary machines in middle
of shop floor but at least I've never seen in an industrial plant
application although I'm sure there must be places where is...
The factory I will be in half an hour from now has ALL equipment
powered witth cable drops from the ceiling including about 35
computers and over a dozen lacer printers, as well as presses, sewing
machines, skivers etc.

On 05/19/2016 11:54 AM, dpb wrote:
....

The planer for which this run is being done sits along an outside wall
and has dedicated outlet for it on that wall --...

And, pleased to say, made the connection to single-phase power this
morning and powered up -- all is well!!!

--

On Thu, 19 May 2016 16:16:11 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

dpb wrote:
On 05/18/2016 11:19 AM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
...

I'm not bull****ting anybody here, it seems like these are just impossible
to find for some reason. ...

Don't doubt it; likely stricter Code enforcement led to such reduced
demand they have simply been dropped by manufacturers for lack of demand.

Searching eBay or the like for one that just shows up from an estate
sale is likely the current recourse unless you happen to know a local
contractor who might just happen to have one you could borrow (or offer
to rent).

How many of such bends and how tight are you talking here? Unless you
can afford to wait to find the proper tool, I'd say give the sand-fill
freehand bend a shot--if you ruin one short section testing it'd be no

No super crazy bends need, just short ones that fit in less than the
standard radius and to go around some existing conduit. I found a supply
house that claims to have 3 of the Ideal hickeys in stock, so I placed an
order, we'll see if they materialize or not when they try to pick them.

big economic loss. You could even start with the standard bender and
have a 5" 90-setback at whatever angle you want past that as a starting
point then simply work on getting the radius down where you want it.

And, of course, there's always heat to help so it is almost like a wet
noodle if you can stomach the discoloration in the end.

The weedburner is an interesting approach.

"Fishing Els" are probably the cheapest short term fix. Just
saying....

http://www.cooperindustries.com/cont...tfittings.html

On Thu, 19 May 2016 13:08:11 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 19 May 2016 10:36:13 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 05/19/2016 9:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 05/18/2016 3:06 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
...

So you probably know about overhead service drop cord, then?

Yeah, sorta' at least but don't get the connection (so to speak
)???
...

Conduit on the ceiling, drops to the machines.

Well, yeah, that I got; just couldn't see that it had any bearing on
previous comment...it's what I've done for stationary machines in middle
of shop floor but at least I've never seen in an industrial plant
application although I'm sure there must be places where is...
The factory I will be in half an hour from now has ALL equipment
powered witth cable drops from the ceiling including about 35
computers and over a dozen lacer printers, as well as presses, sewing
machines, skivers etc.

Some places use only conduit. I prefer conduit AND raceway if I have a
lot of wire to hang

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-m...127_165348.jpg

Gunner

On 05/21/2016 2:46 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
....

"Fishing Els" are probably the cheapest short term fix. Just
saying....

Suggested that in first suggestion, too...

--

That looks nice. We had large buss bars across the ceiling area.
One carried 50 cycle and the rest 60. Had large handle boxes that
plugged into the buss with internal breakers. A drop box. When the
machines needed power we used 6" pipe to bring it to the second floor
and then into a service box. It was a 5 wire 3 phase 440v service.

Martin

On 5/21/2016 2:52 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 13:08:11 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 19 May 2016 10:36:13 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 05/19/2016 9:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 05/18/2016 3:06 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
...

So you probably know about overhead service drop cord, then?

Yeah, sorta' at least but don't get the connection (so to speak
)???
...

Conduit on the ceiling, drops to the machines.

Well, yeah, that I got; just couldn't see that it had any bearing on
previous comment...it's what I've done for stationary machines in middle
of shop floor but at least I've never seen in an industrial plant
application although I'm sure there must be places where is...
The factory I will be in half an hour from now has ALL equipment
powered witth cable drops from the ceiling including about 35
computers and over a dozen lacer printers, as well as presses, sewing
machines, skivers etc.

Some places use only conduit. I prefer conduit AND raceway if I have a
lot of wire to hang

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-m...127_165348.jpg

Gunner

On Sat, 21 May 2016 13:10:43 -0500, Martin Eastburn
wrote:

That looks nice. We had large buss bars across the ceiling area.
One carried 50 cycle and the rest 60. Had large handle boxes that
plugged into the buss with internal breakers. A drop box. When the
machines needed power we used 6" pipe to bring it to the second floor
and then into a service box. It was a 5 wire 3 phase 440v service.

Martin

On 5/21/2016 2:52 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 13:08:11 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 19 May 2016 10:36:13 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 05/19/2016 9:22 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 05/18/2016 3:06 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
...

So you probably know about overhead service drop cord, then?

Yeah, sorta' at least but don't get the connection (so to speak
)???
...

Conduit on the ceiling, drops to the machines.

Well, yeah, that I got; just couldn't see that it had any bearing on
previous comment...it's what I've done for stationary machines in middle
of shop floor but at least I've never seen in an industrial plant
application although I'm sure there must be places where is...
The factory I will be in half an hour from now has ALL equipment
powered witth cable drops from the ceiling including about 35
computers and over a dozen lacer printers, as well as presses, sewing
machines, skivers etc.

Some places use only conduit. I prefer conduit AND raceway if I have a
lot of wire to hang

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-m...127_165348.jpg

Gunner


https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...iesCostaMesaCa

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...osscoShutdown#

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...osscoShutdown#

Cydrome Leader wrote:
I was looking for a 1/2" EMC hickey for some tight, ugly bends, but don't
see any in any catalogs. A few places still make rigid/IMC hickeys for 1/2
but are these compatible or they too loose, and will collapse thinwall?

Finally found an old stock, in the box Ideal 74-011 1/2 EMT hickey. It's
iron with the standard 3/4" thread for a handle. If you need it, the good
folks at frostelectric.com have one left.

If you try a full bend it will kink any EMT I've dug up. If you go easy
and walk the bender along a bend, you can get a nice looking, short
radius. Wasn't really expecting too much more than that, but it's way
cooler than the standard bender.

The next question is has the wall thickness of EMT dropped over the years
to save fractions of a cent? I don't have any decades old scraps to
compare to stuff made recently.

Will try some salt or sand next to see if I can really crank in a tight
bend without getting that one kink on the inside of the radius, just for
the hell of it.

On 05/26/2016 11:05 AM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
....
Finally found an old stock, in the box Ideal 74-011 1/2 EMT hickey. It's
iron with the standard 3/4" thread for a handle. If you need it, the good
folks at frostelectric.com have one left.

If you try a full bend it will kink any EMT I've dug up. If you go easy
and walk the bender along a bend, you can get a nice looking, short
radius. Wasn't really expecting too much more than that, but it's way
cooler than the standard bender.

The next question is has the wall thickness of EMT dropped over the years
to save fractions of a cent? I don't have any decades old scraps to
compare to stuff made recently.

AFAIK the spec's haven't changed; I think the current large-market
retailers are carrying Chinese or Indian or similar import stuff that
looks to me to be softer/sorrier steel even though wall thickness seems
the same as the old stuff here, some of which probably dates from the
late 40s, I know much is late 50/early '60 vintage and it is stiffer it
seems.

Will try some salt or sand next to see if I can really crank in a tight
bend without getting that one kink on the inside of the radius, just for
the hell of it.

Will be interested to hear how that works; the one demo showed a guy
making a "spring" coiling a 10-ft section I forget how many times...but,
it was still on the order of the radius of a standard bend.

Don't think you'll get sharper than the pull elbow would have given
right off the shelf, though... yeah, de debbil made me say it

--

dpb wrote:
On 05/26/2016 11:05 AM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
...
Finally found an old stock, in the box Ideal 74-011 1/2 EMT hickey. It's
iron with the standard 3/4" thread for a handle. If you need it, the good
folks at frostelectric.com have one left.

If you try a full bend it will kink any EMT I've dug up. If you go easy
and walk the bender along a bend, you can get a nice looking, short
radius. Wasn't really expecting too much more than that, but it's way
cooler than the standard bender.

The next question is has the wall thickness of EMT dropped over the years
to save fractions of a cent? I don't have any decades old scraps to
compare to stuff made recently.

AFAIK the spec's haven't changed; I think the current large-market
retailers are carrying Chinese or Indian or similar import stuff that
looks to me to be softer/sorrier steel even though wall thickness seems
the same as the old stuff here, some of which probably dates from the
late 40s, I know much is late 50/early '60 vintage and it is stiffer it
seems.

I've not seen any import junk here in Chicago yet. We have one of the
largest conduit makers (Wheatland) in the city and another just ouside it
(Allied). It's all even the big box places carry, and they love the
cheapest junk.

Lots of the die cast fittings are from India these days though.

Will try some salt or sand next to see if I can really crank in a tight
bend without getting that one kink on the inside of the radius, just for
the hell of it.

Will be interested to hear how that works; the one demo showed a guy
making a "spring" coiling a 10-ft section I forget how many times...but,
it was still on the order of the radius of a standard bend.

Don't think you'll get sharper than the pull elbow would have given
right off the shelf, though... yeah, de debbil made me say it

--

On 05/26/2016 1:37 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
wrote:
On 05/26/2016 11:05 AM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
....

The next question is has the wall thickness of EMT dropped over the years
to save fractions of a cent? I don't have any decades old scraps to
compare to stuff made recently.

AFAIK the spec's haven't changed; I think the current large-market
retailers are carrying Chinese or Indian or similar import stuff that
looks to me to be softer/sorrier steel even though wall thickness seems
the same as the old stuff here, some of which probably dates from the
late 40s, I know much is late 50/early '60 vintage and it is stiffer it
seems.

I've not seen any import junk here in Chicago yet. We have one of the
largest conduit makers (Wheatland) in the city and another just ouside it
(Allied). It's all even the big box places carry, and they love the
cheapest junk.
....

Just checked at Allied site; the spec's are the same as those from an
old (60s college-days) handbook--0.042" wall thickness for 1/2" EMT.

I hadn't really paid any attention; just thought it likely the local
Mead Lumber/DoItBest chain would be import; turns out it's actually
Allied. I _still_ think despite the spec's it isn't as hard and
certainly the exterior finish isn't as clean/uniform as the old, old stuff.

I'd say they've "cheapened-up" the manufacturing still keeping to at
least the minimum of the pertinent UL and ANSI Standards.

--

On 05/26/2016 2:19 PM, dpb wrote:
....

I hadn't really paid any attention; just thought it likely the local
Mead Lumber/DoItBest chain would be import; turns out it's actually
Allied. ...

Just out of curiosity, what can you get it for there? 10-ft 1/2" E-Z
Pull is $2.29/stick at Mead; Ace and a farm/home store were more like
$3+, didn't even bother to ask at the local Stannion distributor; they'd
probably be $5 or more given they won't give me a discount since don't
do enough work on regular basis to meet their monthly minimums...

--

dpb wrote:
On 05/26/2016 1:37 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
wrote:
On 05/26/2016 11:05 AM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
...

The next question is has the wall thickness of EMT dropped over the years
to save fractions of a cent? I don't have any decades old scraps to
compare to stuff made recently.

AFAIK the spec's haven't changed; I think the current large-market
retailers are carrying Chinese or Indian or similar import stuff that
looks to me to be softer/sorrier steel even though wall thickness seems
the same as the old stuff here, some of which probably dates from the
late 40s, I know much is late 50/early '60 vintage and it is stiffer it
seems.

I've not seen any import junk here in Chicago yet. We have one of the
largest conduit makers (Wheatland) in the city and another just ouside it
(Allied). It's all even the big box places carry, and they love the
cheapest junk.
...

Just checked at Allied site; the spec's are the same as those from an
old (60s college-days) handbook--0.042" wall thickness for 1/2" EMT.

Thanks for looking this up.

I hadn't really paid any attention; just thought it likely the local
Mead Lumber/DoItBest chain would be import; turns out it's actually
Allied. I _still_ think despite the spec's it isn't as hard and
certainly the exterior finish isn't as clean/uniform as the old, old stuff.

The new stuff has the shiny spangled zinc coating, older stuff seem to
have a thicker, dull grey coating. Neither flake off, but the grey looking
stuff looks like it's galvanealed. I don't see any conduit with the inch
markings on it anymore either, but it may exist somewhere or be an options
you can pay for.

I'd say they've "cheapened-up" the manufacturing still keeping to at
least the minimum of the pertinent UL and ANSI Standards.

That's quite possible. I'm sort of surprised they still make this stuff
here and not in mexico. Maybe the plant costs too much to move, and I know
the union is involved. The Wheatland plants are pretty large.

dpb wrote:
On 05/26/2016 2:19 PM, dpb wrote:
...

I hadn't really paid any attention; just thought it likely the local
Mead Lumber/DoItBest chain would be import; turns out it's actually
Allied. ...

Just out of curiosity, what can you get it for there? 10-ft 1/2" E-Z
Pull is $2.29/stick at Mead; Ace and a farm/home store were more like
$3+, didn't even bother to ask at the local Stannion distributor; they'd
probably be $5 or more given they won't give me a discount since don't
do enough work on regular basis to meet their monthly minimums...

Usually right at $2 give or take 10 cents. Even if you don't have an
account and pay cash at an electrical distrubutor it's under $2 a piece
even if you just get a few, and a nice place will even load them into your
vehicle while you drink their coffee and watch them fuss with the 3 part
dot matrix printer for a few minutes while trying to print a receipt.

The nearest home depot claims over 52,000 in stock and if you get 100 or
more the price drops to $1.89.

On Thu, 26 May 2016 21:52:43 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:


Just checked at Allied site; the spec's are the same as those from an
old (60s college-days) handbook--0.042" wall thickness for 1/2" EMT.

Thanks for looking this up.

I hadn't really paid any attention; just thought it likely the local
Mead Lumber/DoItBest chain would be import; turns out it's actually
Allied. I _still_ think despite the spec's it isn't as hard and
certainly the exterior finish isn't as clean/uniform as the old, old stuff.

The new stuff has the shiny spangled zinc coating, older stuff seem to
have a thicker, dull grey coating. Neither flake off, but the grey looking
stuff looks like it's galvanealed. I don't see any conduit with the inch
markings on it anymore either, but it may exist somewhere or be an options
you can pay for.

http://www.republicconduit.com/

http://www.republicconduit.com/en/Products.aspx

On Thu, 26 May 2016 22:01:56 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

dpb wrote:
On 05/26/2016 2:19 PM, dpb wrote:
...

I hadn't really paid any attention; just thought it likely the local
Mead Lumber/DoItBest chain would be import; turns out it's actually
Allied. ...

Just out of curiosity, what can you get it for there? 10-ft 1/2" E-Z
Pull is $2.29/stick at Mead; Ace and a farm/home store were more like
$3+, didn't even bother to ask at the local Stannion distributor; they'd
probably be $5 or more given they won't give me a discount since don't
do enough work on regular basis to meet their monthly minimums...

Usually right at $2 give or take 10 cents. Even if you don't have an
account and pay cash at an electrical distrubutor it's under $2 a piece
even if you just get a few, and a nice place will even load them into your
vehicle while you drink their coffee and watch them fuss with the 3 part
dot matrix printer for a few minutes while trying to print a receipt.

The nearest home depot claims over 52,000 in stock and if you get 100 or
more the price drops to $1.89.


I pay $1.50 a stick at Hanks Electric, and $1.75 a stick at Home
Despot, So Cal.

On 05/26/2016 6:06 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Thu, 26 May 2016 22:01:56 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:
wrote:
....
Just out of curiosity, what can you get it for there? 10-ft 1/2" E-Z
Pull is $2.29/stick at Mead; Ace and a farm/home store were more like
$3+, didn't even bother to ask at the local Stannion distributor; they'd
probably be $5 or more given they won't give me a discount since don't
do enough work on regular basis to meet their monthly minimums...

Usually right at $2 give or take 10 cents. Even if you don't have an
account and pay cash at an electrical distrubutor it's under $2 a piece
even if you just get a few, and a nice place will even load them into your
vehicle while you drink their coffee and watch them fuss with the 3 part
dot matrix printer for a few minutes while trying to print a receipt.

The nearest home depot claims over 52,000 in stock and if you get 100 or
more the price drops to $1.89.


I pay $1.50 a stick at Hanks Electric, and $1.75 a stick at Home
Despot, So Cal.

Sometimes it would be advantageous to have a larger market nearby...the
nearest HD/Menards are 60+ mi and were, when I checked online, higher
than Mead and I don't _think_ that's the price direction in which could
make up for it with the mileage...

--

On 05/26/2016 4:52 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
wrote:
....

Just checked at Allied site; the spec's are the same as those from an
old (60s college-days) handbook--0.042" wall thickness for 1/2" EMT.

Thanks for looking this up.

I hadn't really paid any attention; just thought it likely the local
Mead Lumber/DoItBest chain would be import; turns out it's actually
Allied. I _still_ think despite the spec's it isn't as hard and
certainly the exterior finish isn't as clean/uniform as the old, old stuff.

The new stuff has the shiny spangled zinc coating, older stuff seem to
have a thicker, dull grey coating. Neither flake off, but the grey looking
stuff looks like it's galvanealed. I don't see any conduit with the inch
markings on it anymore either, but it may exist somewhere or be an options
you can pay for.

I'd say they've "cheapened-up" the manufacturing still keeping to at
least the minimum of the pertinent UL and ANSI Standards.

That's quite possible. I'm sort of surprised they still make this stuff
here and not in mexico. Maybe the plant costs too much to move, and I know
the union is involved. The Wheatland plants are pretty large.

Other than the color difference from the zinc, what I see are fairly
sizable imperfections in the surface, the tubing seams are obvious,
etc., etc., etc., ... that is, it just "looks cheap" in comparison plus
bending it it simply isn't as stiff.

Not that it really matters that much; it still functions...and when it's
in place it pretty much gets ignored, anyway.

I've not seen any marked, either, altho there are a few sticks of it in
the salvage pile. I suspect as you say it's a premium but probably
somebody still makes it.

I saw Allied has some variations with formed-in compression or screw
connectors in their product line now (and probably for quite some time
but I hadn't seen that before)

--

On 05/26/2016 6:05 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
....
http://www.republicconduit.com/en/Products.aspx

I see the "indenter" couplings in the top picture above...found some of
them in the reycle here that had to have been some contractor Dad used
at some time; there's no crimper around. I really like those but while
some searching uncovered some available pretty cheaply, the crimp tool
is too pricey for such a small amount of work -- unfortunately, none
showed up in estate or similar distress sales on eBay or elsewhere...

--

dpb wrote:
On 05/26/2016 6:05 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
...
http://www.republicconduit.com/en/Products.aspx

I see the "indenter" couplings in the top picture above...found some of
them in the reycle here that had to have been some contractor Dad used
at some time; there's no crimper around. I really like those but while
some searching uncovered some available pretty cheaply, the crimp tool
is too pricey for such a small amount of work -- unfortunately, none
showed up in estate or similar distress sales on eBay or elsewhere...

asking $14 with shipping and you can make an offer:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electrical-C...AAAOSwll1Wu58-

On 05/27/2016 3:56 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
wrote:
....

... the crimp tool
is too pricey for such a small amount of work -- unfortunately, none
showed up in estate or similar distress sales on eBay or elsewhere...

asking $14 with shipping and you can make an offer:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electrical-C...AAAOSwll1Wu58-

Huh! I had just searched a day or so ago again...thanks! I may just
jump on that just on general principles...

Thanks again...

--