I am going to be replacing the hydraulic pump on my Case 580 CK
backhoe this winter. Some time back the hydraulics heat exchanger in
the radiator leaked. This leak led to lots of oil in the water and a
some water in the oil. I fixed the problem by bypassing the internal
heat exchanger and then drained the coolant and hydraulic oil from the
machine. So after new coolant, new oil filters, and new hydraulic oil
all seemed well. After a few years the oil pressure dropped, a gradual
process, to the point where I knew there was a problem. It turns out
the pump is worn out. Checking the pressure where the Case manual says
to check it affirmed my suspicion that the pump is worn. So it will
either be repaired by me or replaced. It also turns out that I did not
get all the water out of the hydraulics. I think this may be why the
pump wore out. Even though the oil looked clear after I drained and
refilled the system I apparently didn't do it right because now the
oil is milky. There is no way for water to enter the system now except
by through the breathers and I run the machine long enough to get the
oil hot enough that this shouldn't be a problem. Speaking with my
neighbor who is a retired backhoe operator who owned his own business
about this I was told that I did not get all the water out the first
time and that this was not unusual. Especially for someone with my
limited experience. So to avoid ruining a new pump I have a plan and
need advice.
First I will replace the filters (there are only two).
Second I will drain and replace the hydraulic oil.
Third I will replace the pump.
Fourth will be bleeding the system.
The advice I need is how to be sure I get all the water out of the
hydraulic system, how best to bleed the system, and is my order of
operations above correct? Should I try to get the system water free
before I change the filters? Or should I do as above but then change
the filters again after changing the oil and making sure it is free of
water?
Thanks,
Eric

Eric, things like pumps can be rebuilt. Ask around for a reputable
hydraulics shop. This is bread and butter for them.

i

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 20:18:22 -0500, Ignoramus14408
wrote:

Eric, things like pumps can be rebuilt. Ask around for a reputable
hydraulics shop. This is bread and butter for them.

i
The D41390 pump is a very common Case part - used on a lot of their
equipment, and is very widely available in both OEM and aftermarket
for prices in the $400 US range. Hardly worth taking the risk on an
unknown rebuild for $300.

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 17:03:31 -0700, wrote:

I am going to be replacing the hydraulic pump on my Case 580 CK
backhoe this winter. Some time back the hydraulics heat exchanger in
the radiator leaked. This leak led to lots of oil in the water and a
some water in the oil. I fixed the problem by bypassing the internal
heat exchanger and then drained the coolant and hydraulic oil from the
machine. So after new coolant, new oil filters, and new hydraulic oil
all seemed well. After a few years the oil pressure dropped, a gradual
process, to the point where I knew there was a problem. It turns out
the pump is worn out. Checking the pressure where the Case manual says
to check it affirmed my suspicion that the pump is worn. So it will
either be repaired by me or replaced. It also turns out that I did not
get all the water out of the hydraulics. I think this may be why the
pump wore out. Even though the oil looked clear after I drained and
refilled the system I apparently didn't do it right because now the
oil is milky. There is no way for water to enter the system now except
by through the breathers and I run the machine long enough to get the
oil hot enough that this shouldn't be a problem. Speaking with my
neighbor who is a retired backhoe operator who owned his own business
about this I was told that I did not get all the water out the first
time and that this was not unusual. Especially for someone with my
limited experience. So to avoid ruining a new pump I have a plan and
need advice.
First I will replace the filters (there are only two).
Second I will drain and replace the hydraulic oil.
Third I will replace the pump.
Fourth will be bleeding the system.
The advice I need is how to be sure I get all the water out of the
hydraulic system, how best to bleed the system, and is my order of
operations above correct? Should I try to get the system water free
before I change the filters? Or should I do as above but then change
the filters again after changing the oil and making sure it is free of
water?

Have you called Case repair shop or corporate headquarters to find out
how they do it, or what they recommend?

My background isn't hydraulics, and I've never done one, but
experience tells me that I'd probably want to:

1- start it up to temperature and get the hydraulic oil hot, then
cycle through every single possible action to run oil through each and
every circuit.

2- then I'd disconnect every single line and blow each one out,

3- then R&R the cylinders and cycle them with the exhaust port down,
(dual actions flipped end to end to accomplish that)

4- remove the filter and blow that circuit out

5- R&R the tank and do the same, etc. If I couldn't remove the tank,
I'd find a way to angle it so I could get a hose down to the bottom
corner and siphon the last of the liquids out of it.

6- replace the pump, add new filter(s), fill with oil,

7- bring it up to temperature, and start running it through the
motions to get fresh oil in every circuit.

I'd think many are self-bleeding, but if not, try to cycle it with the
exhaust port as close to vertical as possible. Having disconnected
each fitting, you'll know which lines are what. I'd diagram all of
those circuits, too, for future reference, if it's not in the manual.

But the call to Case would be my first step. Perhaps ask local
rebuilders and operators for their advice, too. An old friend (the
best swamp dozer, belly scraper, and backhoe operator I've ever met, a
real -natural-) would be happy to relate that to me, but I lost track
of Jeff a couple decades ago. Sorry.

--
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 22:08:37 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 17:03:31 -0700, wrote:

I am going to be replacing the hydraulic pump on my Case 580 CK
backhoe this winter. Some time back the hydraulics heat exchanger in
the radiator leaked. This leak led to lots of oil in the water and a
some water in the oil. I fixed the problem by bypassing the internal
heat exchanger and then drained the coolant and hydraulic oil from the
machine. So after new coolant, new oil filters, and new hydraulic oil
all seemed well. After a few years the oil pressure dropped, a gradual
process, to the point where I knew there was a problem. It turns out
the pump is worn out. Checking the pressure where the Case manual says
to check it affirmed my suspicion that the pump is worn. So it will
either be repaired by me or replaced. It also turns out that I did not
get all the water out of the hydraulics. I think this may be why the
pump wore out. Even though the oil looked clear after I drained and
refilled the system I apparently didn't do it right because now the
oil is milky. There is no way for water to enter the system now except
by through the breathers and I run the machine long enough to get the
oil hot enough that this shouldn't be a problem. Speaking with my
neighbor who is a retired backhoe operator who owned his own business
about this I was told that I did not get all the water out the first
time and that this was not unusual. Especially for someone with my
limited experience. So to avoid ruining a new pump I have a plan and
need advice.
First I will replace the filters (there are only two).
Second I will drain and replace the hydraulic oil.
Third I will replace the pump.
Fourth will be bleeding the system.
The advice I need is how to be sure I get all the water out of the
hydraulic system, how best to bleed the system, and is my order of
operations above correct? Should I try to get the system water free
before I change the filters? Or should I do as above but then change
the filters again after changing the oil and making sure it is free of
water?

Have you called Case repair shop or corporate headquarters to find out
how they do it, or what they recommend?

My background isn't hydraulics, and I've never done one, but
experience tells me that I'd probably want to:

1- start it up to temperature and get the hydraulic oil hot, then
cycle through every single possible action to run oil through each and
every circuit.

2- then I'd disconnect every single line and blow each one out,

3- then R&R the cylinders and cycle them with the exhaust port down,
(dual actions flipped end to end to accomplish that)

4- remove the filter and blow that circuit out

5- R&R the tank and do the same, etc. If I couldn't remove the tank,
I'd find a way to angle it so I could get a hose down to the bottom
corner and siphon the last of the liquids out of it.

6- replace the pump, add new filter(s), fill with oil,

7- bring it up to temperature, and start running it through the
motions to get fresh oil in every circuit.

I'd think many are self-bleeding, but if not, try to cycle it with the
exhaust port as close to vertical as possible. Having disconnected
each fitting, you'll know which lines are what. I'd diagram all of
those circuits, too, for future reference, if it's not in the manual.

But the call to Case would be my first step. Perhaps ask local
rebuilders and operators for their advice, too. An old friend (the
best swamp dozer, belly scraper, and backhoe operator I've ever met, a
real -natural-) would be happy to relate that to me, but I lost track
of Jeff a couple decades ago. Sorry.
I'd agree. If at all possible NEVER run oil that has gone through a
pooched pump through a new one. And if you absolutely have to, drain
and flush the system immediately after

wrote in message
...

I'd agree. If at all possible NEVER run oil that has gone through a
pooched pump through a new one. And if you absolutely have to, drain
and flush the system immediately after


I pressed button magnets into the pipe-plug drains on my tractor's
homemade hydraulic system. It also has a Northern Tool strainer screen
before the pump inlet and the sintered bronze filter from a Bobcat in
the return line,
http://www.loaderpartssource.com/cas...661022.htmlbut the magnets collect most of the debris, typically drilling andtapping chips left over from making or modifying it that initialflushing didn't remove.-jsw

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 7:03:21 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I am going to be replacing the hydraulic pump on my Case 580 CK
backhoe this winter. Some time back the hydraulics heat exchanger in
the radiator leaked. This leak led to lots of oil in the water and a
some water in the oil. I fixed the problem by bypassing the internal
heat exchanger and then drained the coolant and hydraulic oil from the
machine. So after new coolant, new oil filters, and new hydraulic oil
all seemed well. After a few years the oil pressure dropped, a gradual
process, to the point where I knew there was a problem. It turns out
the pump is worn out. Checking the pressure where the Case manual says
to check it affirmed my suspicion that the pump is worn. So it will
either be repaired by me or replaced. It also turns out that I did not
get all the water out of the hydraulics. I think this may be why the
pump wore out. Even though the oil looked clear after I drained and
refilled the system I apparently didn't do it right because now the
oil is milky. There is no way for water to enter the system now except
by through the breathers and I run the machine long enough to get the
oil hot enough that this shouldn't be a problem. Speaking with my
neighbor who is a retired backhoe operator who owned his own business
about this I was told that I did not get all the water out the first
time and that this was not unusual. Especially for someone with my
limited experience. So to avoid ruining a new pump I have a plan and
need advice.
First I will replace the filters (there are only two).
Second I will drain and replace the hydraulic oil.
Third I will replace the pump.
Fourth will be bleeding the system.
The advice I need is how to be sure I get all the water out of the
hydraulic system, how best to bleed the system, and is my order of
operations above correct? Should I try to get the system water free
before I change the filters? Or should I do as above but then change
the filters again after changing the oil and making sure it is free of
water?
Thanks,
Eric

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...g-water-in-oil
This site has some good info. I like the vacuum method at only 28 in. hg.

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 20:18:22 -0500, Ignoramus14408
wrote:

Eric, things like pumps can be rebuilt. Ask around for a reputable
hydraulics shop. This is bread and butter for them.

i
Thanks Ig. Years ago I rebuilt gear pumps several times when I was a
machinist at a lumber mill. I won't know if my pump is rebuildable
until I open it up. I am hoping that the leakage is mostly at the ends
of the gears. If the perimeter of the gear pockets are too worn the
pump may be trash.
Eric

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 22:08:37 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 17:03:31 -0700, wrote:

I am going to be replacing the hydraulic pump on my Case 580 CK
backhoe this winter. Some time back the hydraulics heat exchanger in
the radiator leaked. This leak led to lots of oil in the water and a
some water in the oil. I fixed the problem by bypassing the internal
heat exchanger and then drained the coolant and hydraulic oil from the
machine. So after new coolant, new oil filters, and new hydraulic oil
all seemed well. After a few years the oil pressure dropped, a gradual
process, to the point where I knew there was a problem. It turns out
the pump is worn out. Checking the pressure where the Case manual says
to check it affirmed my suspicion that the pump is worn. So it will
either be repaired by me or replaced. It also turns out that I did not
get all the water out of the hydraulics. I think this may be why the
pump wore out. Even though the oil looked clear after I drained and
refilled the system I apparently didn't do it right because now the
oil is milky. There is no way for water to enter the system now except
by through the breathers and I run the machine long enough to get the
oil hot enough that this shouldn't be a problem. Speaking with my
neighbor who is a retired backhoe operator who owned his own business
about this I was told that I did not get all the water out the first
time and that this was not unusual. Especially for someone with my
limited experience. So to avoid ruining a new pump I have a plan and
need advice.
First I will replace the filters (there are only two).
Second I will drain and replace the hydraulic oil.
Third I will replace the pump.
Fourth will be bleeding the system.
The advice I need is how to be sure I get all the water out of the
hydraulic system, how best to bleed the system, and is my order of
operations above correct? Should I try to get the system water free
before I change the filters? Or should I do as above but then change
the filters again after changing the oil and making sure it is free of
water?

Have you called Case repair shop or corporate headquarters to find out
how they do it, or what they recommend?

My background isn't hydraulics, and I've never done one, but
experience tells me that I'd probably want to:

1- start it up to temperature and get the hydraulic oil hot, then
cycle through every single possible action to run oil through each and
every circuit.

2- then I'd disconnect every single line and blow each one out,

3- then R&R the cylinders and cycle them with the exhaust port down,
(dual actions flipped end to end to accomplish that)

4- remove the filter and blow that circuit out

5- R&R the tank and do the same, etc. If I couldn't remove the tank,
I'd find a way to angle it so I could get a hose down to the bottom
corner and siphon the last of the liquids out of it.

6- replace the pump, add new filter(s), fill with oil,

7- bring it up to temperature, and start running it through the
motions to get fresh oil in every circuit.

I'd think many are self-bleeding, but if not, try to cycle it with the
exhaust port as close to vertical as possible. Having disconnected
each fitting, you'll know which lines are what. I'd diagram all of
those circuits, too, for future reference, if it's not in the manual.

But the call to Case would be my first step. Perhaps ask local
rebuilders and operators for their advice, too. An old friend (the
best swamp dozer, belly scraper, and backhoe operator I've ever met, a
real -natural-) would be happy to relate that to me, but I lost track
of Jeff a couple decades ago. Sorry.
I have not called Case yet. The last time I spoke with the Case guys
they were reluctant to help with such a small time guy like me. But I
will give them a call. I will not be taking any cylinders apart but I
can remove the lines from each and blow them out. Fortunately there is
a drain at the bottom of each oil reservoir, as the reservoirs are
part of the frame of the machine.
Eric

On Thu, 1 Oct 2015 06:22:23 -0700 (PDT), wws
wrote:

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 7:03:21 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I am going to be replacing the hydraulic pump on my Case 580 CK
backhoe this winter. Some time back the hydraulics heat exchanger in
the radiator leaked. This leak led to lots of oil in the water and a
some water in the oil. I fixed the problem by bypassing the internal
heat exchanger and then drained the coolant and hydraulic oil from the
machine. So after new coolant, new oil filters, and new hydraulic oil
all seemed well. After a few years the oil pressure dropped, a gradual
process, to the point where I knew there was a problem. It turns out
the pump is worn out. Checking the pressure where the Case manual says
to check it affirmed my suspicion that the pump is worn. So it will
either be repaired by me or replaced. It also turns out that I did not
get all the water out of the hydraulics. I think this may be why the
pump wore out. Even though the oil looked clear after I drained and
refilled the system I apparently didn't do it right because now the
oil is milky. There is no way for water to enter the system now except
by through the breathers and I run the machine long enough to get the
oil hot enough that this shouldn't be a problem. Speaking with my
neighbor who is a retired backhoe operator who owned his own business
about this I was told that I did not get all the water out the first
time and that this was not unusual. Especially for someone with my
limited experience. So to avoid ruining a new pump I have a plan and
need advice.
First I will replace the filters (there are only two).
Second I will drain and replace the hydraulic oil.
Third I will replace the pump.
Fourth will be bleeding the system.
The advice I need is how to be sure I get all the water out of the
hydraulic system, how best to bleed the system, and is my order of
operations above correct? Should I try to get the system water free
before I change the filters? Or should I do as above but then change
the filters again after changing the oil and making sure it is free of
water?
Thanks,
Eric

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...g-water-in-oil
This site has some good info. I like the vacuum method at only 28 in. hg.
Thanks, that is an interesting article. In my case though it doesn't
really apply except maybe the vacuum option when the oil is hot. This
is because the oil and water have formed an emulsion and even though
the oil has gotten plenty hot the water won't come out. When I say
plenty hot I mean as hot as it can get when operating the backhoe
during the hottest days we get here. If I had a vacuum pump I would
try pulling a vacuum on the oil reservoir when the oil is hot, then
letting the oil cool and try draining the reservoirs. Right now if I
draain any oil out it comes out milky. I guess this is a common
problem with hydraulic oil.
Eric
Eric

On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 10:57:06 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 1 Oct 2015 06:22:23 -0700 (PDT), wws
wrote:

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 7:03:21 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I am going to be replacing the hydraulic pump on my Case 580 CK
backhoe this winter. Some time back the hydraulics heat exchanger in
the radiator leaked. This leak led to lots of oil in the water and a
some water in the oil. I fixed the problem by bypassing the internal
heat exchanger and then drained the coolant and hydraulic oil from the
machine. So after new coolant, new oil filters, and new hydraulic oil
all seemed well. After a few years the oil pressure dropped, a gradual
process, to the point where I knew there was a problem. It turns out
the pump is worn out. Checking the pressure where the Case manual says
to check it affirmed my suspicion that the pump is worn. So it will
either be repaired by me or replaced. It also turns out that I did not
get all the water out of the hydraulics. I think this may be why the
pump wore out. Even though the oil looked clear after I drained and
refilled the system I apparently didn't do it right because now the
oil is milky. There is no way for water to enter the system now except
by through the breathers and I run the machine long enough to get the
oil hot enough that this shouldn't be a problem. Speaking with my
neighbor who is a retired backhoe operator who owned his own business
about this I was told that I did not get all the water out the first
time and that this was not unusual. Especially for someone with my
limited experience. So to avoid ruining a new pump I have a plan and
need advice.
First I will replace the filters (there are only two).
Second I will drain and replace the hydraulic oil.
Third I will replace the pump.
Fourth will be bleeding the system.
The advice I need is how to be sure I get all the water out of the
hydraulic system, how best to bleed the system, and is my order of
operations above correct? Should I try to get the system water free
before I change the filters? Or should I do as above but then change
the filters again after changing the oil and making sure it is free of
water?
Thanks,
Eric

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...g-water-in-oil
This site has some good info. I like the vacuum method at only 28 in. hg.
Thanks, that is an interesting article. In my case though it doesn't
really apply except maybe the vacuum option when the oil is hot. This
is because the oil and water have formed an emulsion and even though
the oil has gotten plenty hot the water won't come out. When I say
plenty hot I mean as hot as it can get when operating the backhoe
during the hottest days we get here. If I had a vacuum pump I would
try pulling a vacuum on the oil reservoir when the oil is hot, then
letting the oil cool and try draining the reservoirs. Right now if I
draain any oil out it comes out milky. I guess this is a common
problem with hydraulic oil.

The million dollar question is "Will that reservoir stand up to a
pretty strong vacuum?" I'd sure as hell be hesitant if it were my
vehicle. Caveat Experimentor.

--
The human brain is unique in that it is the only container of which
it can be said that the more you put into it, the more it will hold.
-- Glenn Doman

On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 08:54:55 -0700, wrote:

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 22:08:37 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 30 Sep 2015 17:03:31 -0700, wrote:

I am going to be replacing the hydraulic pump on my Case 580 CK
backhoe this winter. Some time back the hydraulics heat exchanger in
the radiator leaked. This leak led to lots of oil in the water and a
some water in the oil. I fixed the problem by bypassing the internal
heat exchanger and then drained the coolant and hydraulic oil from the
machine. So after new coolant, new oil filters, and new hydraulic oil
all seemed well. After a few years the oil pressure dropped, a gradual
process, to the point where I knew there was a problem. It turns out
the pump is worn out. Checking the pressure where the Case manual says
to check it affirmed my suspicion that the pump is worn. So it will
either be repaired by me or replaced. It also turns out that I did not
get all the water out of the hydraulics. I think this may be why the
pump wore out. Even though the oil looked clear after I drained and
refilled the system I apparently didn't do it right because now the
oil is milky. There is no way for water to enter the system now except
by through the breathers and I run the machine long enough to get the
oil hot enough that this shouldn't be a problem. Speaking with my
neighbor who is a retired backhoe operator who owned his own business
about this I was told that I did not get all the water out the first
time and that this was not unusual. Especially for someone with my
limited experience. So to avoid ruining a new pump I have a plan and
need advice.
First I will replace the filters (there are only two).
Second I will drain and replace the hydraulic oil.
Third I will replace the pump.
Fourth will be bleeding the system.
The advice I need is how to be sure I get all the water out of the
hydraulic system, how best to bleed the system, and is my order of
operations above correct? Should I try to get the system water free
before I change the filters? Or should I do as above but then change
the filters again after changing the oil and making sure it is free of
water?

Have you called Case repair shop or corporate headquarters to find out
how they do it, or what they recommend?

My background isn't hydraulics, and I've never done one, but
experience tells me that I'd probably want to:

1- start it up to temperature and get the hydraulic oil hot, then
cycle through every single possible action to run oil through each and
every circuit.

2- then I'd disconnect every single line and blow each one out,

3- then R&R the cylinders and cycle them with the exhaust port down,
(dual actions flipped end to end to accomplish that)

4- remove the filter and blow that circuit out

5- R&R the tank and do the same, etc. If I couldn't remove the tank,
I'd find a way to angle it so I could get a hose down to the bottom
corner and siphon the last of the liquids out of it.

6- replace the pump, add new filter(s), fill with oil,

7- bring it up to temperature, and start running it through the
motions to get fresh oil in every circuit.

I'd think many are self-bleeding, but if not, try to cycle it with the
exhaust port as close to vertical as possible. Having disconnected
each fitting, you'll know which lines are what. I'd diagram all of
those circuits, too, for future reference, if it's not in the manual.

But the call to Case would be my first step. Perhaps ask local
rebuilders and operators for their advice, too. An old friend (the
best swamp dozer, belly scraper, and backhoe operator I've ever met, a
real -natural-) would be happy to relate that to me, but I lost track
of Jeff a couple decades ago. Sorry.
I have not called Case yet. The last time I spoke with the Case guys
they were reluctant to help with such a small time guy like me. But I

Jeeze, it's a shame to hear that. WTF happened to American customer
service? /rhetorical question sigh


will give them a call. I will not be taking any cylinders apart but I
can remove the lines from each and blow them out. Fortunately there is
a drain at the bottom of each oil reservoir, as the reservoirs are
part of the frame of the machine.

In thinking about vacuum, I'm wondering what the lines are able to
withstand, too. 28" isn't full hard vacuum, but it's awful close.

--
The human brain is unique in that it is the only container of which
it can be said that the more you put into it, the more it will hold.
-- Glenn Doman

On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 20:00:57 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 10:57:06 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 1 Oct 2015 06:22:23 -0700 (PDT), wws
wrote:

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 7:03:21 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I am going to be replacing the hydraulic pump on my Case 580 CK
backhoe this winter. Some time back the hydraulics heat exchanger in
the radiator leaked. This leak led to lots of oil in the water and a
some water in the oil. I fixed the problem by bypassing the internal
heat exchanger and then drained the coolant and hydraulic oil from the
machine. So after new coolant, new oil filters, and new hydraulic oil
all seemed well. After a few years the oil pressure dropped, a gradual
process, to the point where I knew there was a problem. It turns out
the pump is worn out. Checking the pressure where the Case manual says
to check it affirmed my suspicion that the pump is worn. So it will
either be repaired by me or replaced. It also turns out that I did not
get all the water out of the hydraulics. I think this may be why the
pump wore out. Even though the oil looked clear after I drained and
refilled the system I apparently didn't do it right because now the
oil is milky. There is no way for water to enter the system now except
by through the breathers and I run the machine long enough to get the
oil hot enough that this shouldn't be a problem. Speaking with my
neighbor who is a retired backhoe operator who owned his own business
about this I was told that I did not get all the water out the first
time and that this was not unusual. Especially for someone with my
limited experience. So to avoid ruining a new pump I have a plan and
need advice.
First I will replace the filters (there are only two).
Second I will drain and replace the hydraulic oil.
Third I will replace the pump.
Fourth will be bleeding the system.
The advice I need is how to be sure I get all the water out of the
hydraulic system, how best to bleed the system, and is my order of
operations above correct? Should I try to get the system water free
before I change the filters? Or should I do as above but then change
the filters again after changing the oil and making sure it is free of
water?
Thanks,
Eric

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...g-water-in-oil
This site has some good info. I like the vacuum method at only 28 in. hg.
Thanks, that is an interesting article. In my case though it doesn't
really apply except maybe the vacuum option when the oil is hot. This
is because the oil and water have formed an emulsion and even though
the oil has gotten plenty hot the water won't come out. When I say
plenty hot I mean as hot as it can get when operating the backhoe
during the hottest days we get here. If I had a vacuum pump I would
try pulling a vacuum on the oil reservoir when the oil is hot, then
letting the oil cool and try draining the reservoirs. Right now if I
draain any oil out it comes out milky. I guess this is a common
problem with hydraulic oil.

The million dollar question is "Will that reservoir stand up to a
pretty strong vacuum?" I'd sure as hell be hesitant if it were my
vehicle. Caveat Experimentor.
You can be pretty sure the tanks would NOT survive anything close to
a 28 inch vacuum.without deforming. On a 8 cu ft square tank you have
3456 square inches of surface area, all being acted on by 13 lb per
square inch - a total of 8640 lbs acting on each 2 ft square side.

On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 23:37:14 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 20:00:57 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 10:57:06 -0700, wrote:

On Thu, 1 Oct 2015 06:22:23 -0700 (PDT), wws
wrote:

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 7:03:21 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I am going to be replacing the hydraulic pump on my Case 580 CK
backhoe this winter. Some time back the hydraulics heat exchanger in
the radiator leaked. This leak led to lots of oil in the water and a
some water in the oil. I fixed the problem by bypassing the internal
heat exchanger and then drained the coolant and hydraulic oil from the
machine. So after new coolant, new oil filters, and new hydraulic oil
all seemed well. After a few years the oil pressure dropped, a gradual
process, to the point where I knew there was a problem. It turns out
the pump is worn out. Checking the pressure where the Case manual says
to check it affirmed my suspicion that the pump is worn. So it will
either be repaired by me or replaced. It also turns out that I did not
get all the water out of the hydraulics. I think this may be why the
pump wore out. Even though the oil looked clear after I drained and
refilled the system I apparently didn't do it right because now the
oil is milky. There is no way for water to enter the system now except
by through the breathers and I run the machine long enough to get the
oil hot enough that this shouldn't be a problem. Speaking with my
neighbor who is a retired backhoe operator who owned his own business
about this I was told that I did not get all the water out the first
time and that this was not unusual. Especially for someone with my
limited experience. So to avoid ruining a new pump I have a plan and
need advice.
First I will replace the filters (there are only two).
Second I will drain and replace the hydraulic oil.
Third I will replace the pump.
Fourth will be bleeding the system.
The advice I need is how to be sure I get all the water out of the
hydraulic system, how best to bleed the system, and is my order of
operations above correct? Should I try to get the system water free
before I change the filters? Or should I do as above but then change
the filters again after changing the oil and making sure it is free of
water?
Thanks,
Eric

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...g-water-in-oil
This site has some good info. I like the vacuum method at only 28 in. hg.
Thanks, that is an interesting article. In my case though it doesn't
really apply except maybe the vacuum option when the oil is hot. This
is because the oil and water have formed an emulsion and even though
the oil has gotten plenty hot the water won't come out. When I say
plenty hot I mean as hot as it can get when operating the backhoe
during the hottest days we get here. If I had a vacuum pump I would
try pulling a vacuum on the oil reservoir when the oil is hot, then
letting the oil cool and try draining the reservoirs. Right now if I
draain any oil out it comes out milky. I guess this is a common
problem with hydraulic oil.

The million dollar question is "Will that reservoir stand up to a
pretty strong vacuum?" I'd sure as hell be hesitant if it were my
vehicle. Caveat Experimentor.
You can be pretty sure the tanks would NOT survive anything close to
a 28 inch vacuum.without deforming. On a 8 cu ft square tank you have
3456 square inches of surface area, all being acted on by 13 lb per
square inch - a total of 8640 lbs acting on each 2 ft square side.
Since I don't have a vacuum pump, which I said in my last post, I
won't be pulling a vacuum on the oil tanks. But if I did I wouldn't be
too worried as the wall thickness of the tanks is 3/8". As I mentioned
previously the tanks on my backhoe do double duty as frame members.
They form part of the frame that supports the front bucket, their main
purpose in fact. Being of hollow construction Case decided to save
space and money and use them as reservoirs too.
Eric

On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 14:10:48 -0700, wrote:

On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 23:37:14 -0400, wrote:
You can be pretty sure the tanks would NOT survive anything close to
a 28 inch vacuum.without deforming. On a 8 cu ft square tank you have
3456 square inches of surface area, all being acted on by 13 lb per
square inch - a total of 8640 lbs acting on each 2 ft square side.


Since I don't have a vacuum pump, which I said in my last post, I
won't be pulling a vacuum on the oil tanks. But if I did I wouldn't be
too worried as the wall thickness of the tanks is 3/8". As I mentioned
previously the tanks on my backhoe do double duty as frame members.
They form part of the frame that supports the front bucket, their main
purpose in fact. Being of hollow construction Case decided to save
space and money and use them as reservoirs too.

Yes, that was a good idea. Other vehicles have hydraulic oil and
compressed air stored in their tubular structures, too.

But if you did suck 'er down, even that thick tank would likely
permanently pucker pretty proudly. (distinctly didn't rhyme)

--
Canadian: An unarmed American with healthcare.

On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 17:49:58 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 14:10:48 -0700, wrote:

On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 23:37:14 -0400, wrote:
You can be pretty sure the tanks would NOT survive anything close to
a 28 inch vacuum.without deforming. On a 8 cu ft square tank you have
3456 square inches of surface area, all being acted on by 13 lb per
square inch - a total of 8640 lbs acting on each 2 ft square side.


Since I don't have a vacuum pump, which I said in my last post, I
won't be pulling a vacuum on the oil tanks. But if I did I wouldn't be
too worried as the wall thickness of the tanks is 3/8". As I mentioned
previously the tanks on my backhoe do double duty as frame members.
They form part of the frame that supports the front bucket, their main
purpose in fact. Being of hollow construction Case decided to save
space and money and use them as reservoirs too.

Yes, that was a good idea. Other vehicles have hydraulic oil and
compressed air stored in their tubular structures, too.

But if you did suck 'er down, even that thick tank would likely
permanently pucker pretty proudly. (distinctly didn't rhyme)
Did you ever see a rail tank car that was steam cleaned and some
idiot closed the hatch and shoved it out into the shade on a 50 degree
F day? Looked like someone squeezed a pop can.

On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 21:26:42 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 17:49:58 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 14:10:48 -0700, wrote:

On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 23:37:14 -0400, wrote:
You can be pretty sure the tanks would NOT survive anything close to
a 28 inch vacuum.without deforming. On a 8 cu ft square tank you have
3456 square inches of surface area, all being acted on by 13 lb per
square inch - a total of 8640 lbs acting on each 2 ft square side.


Since I don't have a vacuum pump, which I said in my last post, I
won't be pulling a vacuum on the oil tanks. But if I did I wouldn't be
too worried as the wall thickness of the tanks is 3/8". As I mentioned
previously the tanks on my backhoe do double duty as frame members.
They form part of the frame that supports the front bucket, their main
purpose in fact. Being of hollow construction Case decided to save
space and money and use them as reservoirs too.

Yes, that was a good idea. Other vehicles have hydraulic oil and
compressed air stored in their tubular structures, too.

But if you did suck 'er down, even that thick tank would likely
permanently pucker pretty proudly. (distinctly didn't rhyme)
Did you ever see a rail tank car that was steam cleaned and some
idiot closed the hatch and shoved it out into the shade on a 50 degree
F day? Looked like someone squeezed a pop can.
Rail cars have HUGE surface areas and arent particularly thick metal

On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 21:26:42 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 17:49:58 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 14:10:48 -0700, wrote:

On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 23:37:14 -0400, wrote:
You can be pretty sure the tanks would NOT survive anything close to
a 28 inch vacuum.without deforming. On a 8 cu ft square tank you have
3456 square inches of surface area, all being acted on by 13 lb per
square inch - a total of 8640 lbs acting on each 2 ft square side.


Since I don't have a vacuum pump, which I said in my last post, I
won't be pulling a vacuum on the oil tanks. But if I did I wouldn't be
too worried as the wall thickness of the tanks is 3/8". As I mentioned
previously the tanks on my backhoe do double duty as frame members.
They form part of the frame that supports the front bucket, their main
purpose in fact. Being of hollow construction Case decided to save
space and money and use them as reservoirs too.

Yes, that was a good idea. Other vehicles have hydraulic oil and
compressed air stored in their tubular structures, too.

But if you did suck 'er down, even that thick tank would likely
permanently pucker pretty proudly. (distinctly didn't rhyme)
Did you ever see a rail tank car that was steam cleaned and some
idiot closed the hatch and shoved it out into the shade on a 50 degree
F day? Looked like someone squeezed a pop can.

Ooh, I'll bet they didn't work there long.
(Or ever work again for another railroad.)

--
Canadian: An unarmed American with healthcare.

On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 21:26:42 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 17:49:58 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 14:10:48 -0700, wrote:

On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 23:37:14 -0400, wrote:
You can be pretty sure the tanks would NOT survive anything close to
a 28 inch vacuum.without deforming. On a 8 cu ft square tank you have
3456 square inches of surface area, all being acted on by 13 lb per
square inch - a total of 8640 lbs acting on each 2 ft square side.


Since I don't have a vacuum pump, which I said in my last post, I
won't be pulling a vacuum on the oil tanks. But if I did I wouldn't be
too worried as the wall thickness of the tanks is 3/8". As I mentioned
previously the tanks on my backhoe do double duty as frame members.
They form part of the frame that supports the front bucket, their main
purpose in fact. Being of hollow construction Case decided to save
space and money and use them as reservoirs too.

Yes, that was a good idea. Other vehicles have hydraulic oil and
compressed air stored in their tubular structures, too.

But if you did suck 'er down, even that thick tank would likely
permanently pucker pretty proudly. (distinctly didn't rhyme)
Did you ever see a rail tank car that was steam cleaned and some
idiot closed the hatch and shoved it out into the shade on a 50 degree
F day? Looked like someone squeezed a pop can.
Did you ever look at a Case backhoe frame? Of course I know what a
rail car collapsed from cooling steam looks like and the frame on my
backhoe has less than 1% of the surface area. Probably less than 1/10
of 1%.
Eric

On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 20:39:11 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 21:26:42 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 17:49:58 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 03 Oct 2015 14:10:48 -0700, wrote:

On Fri, 02 Oct 2015 23:37:14 -0400, wrote:
You can be pretty sure the tanks would NOT survive anything close to
a 28 inch vacuum.without deforming. On a 8 cu ft square tank you have
3456 square inches of surface area, all being acted on by 13 lb per
square inch - a total of 8640 lbs acting on each 2 ft square side.


Since I don't have a vacuum pump, which I said in my last post, I
won't be pulling a vacuum on the oil tanks. But if I did I wouldn't be
too worried as the wall thickness of the tanks is 3/8". As I mentioned
previously the tanks on my backhoe do double duty as frame members.
They form part of the frame that supports the front bucket, their main
purpose in fact. Being of hollow construction Case decided to save
space and money and use them as reservoirs too.

Yes, that was a good idea. Other vehicles have hydraulic oil and
compressed air stored in their tubular structures, too.

But if you did suck 'er down, even that thick tank would likely
permanently pucker pretty proudly. (distinctly didn't rhyme)
Did you ever see a rail tank car that was steam cleaned and some
idiot closed the hatch and shoved it out into the shade on a 50 degree
F day? Looked like someone squeezed a pop can.
Rail cars have HUGE surface areas and arent particularly thick metal
And the vacuum wasn't particularly deep either ---- Wrinkled tinfoil
more closely described the end result.