Bob La Londe wrote

"Ignoramus11878" wrote in

I am just wondering what do you think about the prospects for that*
business idea. Maybe you are, were or know someone with that sort of*
business plan and know how it worked out.*
*
I do have some opinions about it, but I will withhold them to see what*
you think. I just laid out pertinent facts.*
*
Liability can be mitigated a number of ways. *An attorney can help him with*
a simple service agreement for work that includes a limitation of liability*
depending on the type of work he does. *Insurance is not required most*
places, but he can weigh the risks and make his own choices.

Difficulty in business is best resolved beforehand.

Would an attorney even want to work with a firm that has no full time accountant working there, for example? Would a bank want to make loans to such a company that has no full time lawyer working there? Would an accountant wish to work with a company having less than a certain number of employees or level of gross earnings? Would an insurance company trust a client that didn't have all of these things? If not, you can understand why insurance rates might skyrocket for your operation.

You have to look at your business prospects through the eyes of those you work with, too.

On Fri, 19 Dec 2014 12:05:05 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Bob La Londe wrote

"Ignoramus11878" wrote in

I am just wondering what do you think about the prospects for that*
business idea. Maybe you are, were or know someone with that sort of*
business plan and know how it worked out.*
*
I do have some opinions about it, but I will withhold them to see what*
you think. I just laid out pertinent facts.*
*
Liability can be mitigated a number of ways. *An attorney can help him with*
a simple service agreement for work that includes a limitation of liability*
depending on the type of work he does. *Insurance is not required most*
places, but he can weigh the risks and make his own choices.

Difficulty in business is best resolved beforehand.

Would an attorney even want to work with a firm that has no full time accountant working there, for example? Would a bank want to make loans to such a company that has no full time lawyer working there? Would an accountant wish to work with a company having less than a certain number of employees or level of gross earnings? Would an insurance company trust a client that didn't have all of these things? If not, you can understand why insurance rates might skyrocket for your operation.

You have to look at your business prospects through the eyes of those you work with, too.

Of the 120,000 or so commercial metalworking shops in the US, I doubt
if 10% of them have an accountant "working there," and probably no
more than 5% have lawyers on staff.

Those are independent services that one hires as needed.

Banks give those companies small-business loans all the time. As for
banks requiring insurance, it depends on the bank's exposure and what
assets they have encumbered with liens.


--
Ed Huntress

fired this volley in
:

Would an attorney even want to work with a firm that has no full time
accountant working there, for example? Would a bank want to make
loans to such a company that has no full time lawyer working there?
Would an accountant wish to work with a company having less than a
certain number of employees or level of gross earnings? Would an
insurance company trust a client that didn't have all of these things?
If not, you can understand why insurance rates might skyrocket for
your operation.

You have to look at your business prospects through the eyes of those
you work with, too.

Huh? Mine is a 2-1/2 man company in a good month, and a 1-man shop in
lean times. I have a business liability attorney who works with 100
+million dollar companies AND little guys like painters and plumbers.

My bank likes me. They loan me money for projects, based on contracts I
sign. Now, I do have a good reputation for delivering and getting paid,
and that might be part of their motive; and I've been with the same bank
for 40 years. But I don't have an attorney OR accountant "on staff".

My gross is small -- no larger than to provide me with a decent income in
the end, but carefully limited to how far I want to grow and how much
'employee headaches' I want to bear. My liability insurance is only
about $800 per year.

I'm not sure what more I could hope for.

Maybe others' milage is different, but I don't have any of those
difficulties you're describing.

LLoyd

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Dec 2014 12:05:05 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Bob La Londe wrote

"Ignoramus11878" wrote in

I am just wondering what do you think about the prospects for
that
business idea. Maybe you are, were or know someone with that sort
of
business plan and know how it worked out.

I do have some opinions about it, but I will withhold them to see
what
you think. I just laid out pertinent facts.

Liability can be mitigated a number of ways. An attorney can help
him with
a simple service agreement for work that includes a limitation of
liability
depending on the type of work he does. Insurance is not required
most
places, but he can weigh the risks and make his own choices.

Difficulty in business is best resolved beforehand.

Would an attorney even want to work with a firm that has no full
time accountant working there, for example? Would a bank want to
make loans to such a company that has no full time lawyer working
there? Would an accountant wish to work with a company having less
than a certain number of employees or level of gross earnings? Would
an insurance company trust a client that didn't have all of these
things? If not, you can understand why insurance rates might
skyrocket for your operation.

You have to look at your business prospects through the eyes of
those you work with, too.

Of the 120,000 or so commercial metalworking shops in the US, I
doubt
if 10% of them have an accountant "working there," and probably no
more than 5% have lawyers on staff.

Those are independent services that one hires as needed.

Banks give those companies small-business loans all the time. As for
banks requiring insurance, it depends on the bank's exposure and
what
assets they have encumbered with liens.
--
Ed Huntress

Does Mog dream up these imaginary obstacles to success to rationalize
his own lack of it?

On Fri, 19 Dec 2014 12:05:05 -0800, mogulah wrote:

Bob La Londe wrote

"Ignoramus11878" wrote in

I am just wondering what do you think about the prospects for that
business idea. Maybe you are, were or know someone with that sort of
business plan and know how it worked out.
Â*
I do have some opinions about it, but I will withhold them to see what
you think. I just laid out pertinent facts.
Â*
Liability can be mitigated a number of ways. Â*An attorney can help him
with a simple service agreement for work that includes a limitation of
liability depending on the type of work he does. Â*Insurance is not
required most places, but he can weigh the risks and make his own
choices.

Difficulty in business is best resolved beforehand.

Would an attorney even want to work with a firm that has no full time
accountant working there, for example? Would a bank want to make loans
to such a company that has no full time lawyer working there? Would an
accountant wish to work with a company having less than a certain number
of employees or level of gross earnings? Would an insurance company
trust a client that didn't have all of these things? If not, you can
understand why insurance rates might skyrocket for your operation.

Well, in my case, yes, yes, yes and yes. There are one-man shops all
over, and there are attorneys, accountants, banks and insurance companies
that cater to them.

You have to look at your business prospects through the eyes of those
you work with, too.

This is true -- but just because you're a one-man operation doesn't mean
you'll be painted black.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On Fri, 19 Dec 2014 15:26:51 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 19 Dec 2014 12:05:05 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Bob La Londe wrote

"Ignoramus11878" wrote in

I am just wondering what do you think about the prospects for
that
business idea. Maybe you are, were or know someone with that sort
of
business plan and know how it worked out.

I do have some opinions about it, but I will withhold them to see
what
you think. I just laid out pertinent facts.

Liability can be mitigated a number of ways. An attorney can help
him with
a simple service agreement for work that includes a limitation of
liability
depending on the type of work he does. Insurance is not required
most
places, but he can weigh the risks and make his own choices.

Difficulty in business is best resolved beforehand.

Would an attorney even want to work with a firm that has no full
time accountant working there, for example? Would a bank want to
make loans to such a company that has no full time lawyer working
there? Would an accountant wish to work with a company having less
than a certain number of employees or level of gross earnings? Would
an insurance company trust a client that didn't have all of these
things? If not, you can understand why insurance rates might
skyrocket for your operation.

You have to look at your business prospects through the eyes of
those you work with, too.

Of the 120,000 or so commercial metalworking shops in the US, I
doubt
if 10% of them have an accountant "working there," and probably no
more than 5% have lawyers on staff.

Those are independent services that one hires as needed.

Banks give those companies small-business loans all the time. As for
banks requiring insurance, it depends on the bank's exposure and
what
assets they have encumbered with liens.
--
Ed Huntress

Does Mog dream up these imaginary obstacles to success to rationalize
his own lack of it?

Dream up -- yes. Excessive extrapolation from inadequate data. g

Rationalize -- I don't know. He seems to be a speculator for all
reasons.

--
Ed Huntress

S Ed Huntress

- hide quoted text -

On Fri, 19 Dec 2014 15:26:51 -0500, "Jim Wilkins wrote:


*
Does Mog dream up these imaginary obstacles to success to rationalize*
his own lack of it?*

Dream up -- yes. Excessive extrapolation from inadequate data. g*

Rationalize -- I don't know. He seems to be a speculator for all*reasons.*

Ed you can go by "seems" all you want. But at one end of the standard you've got my choice - business that plans for as many contingencies as is practical. On the other end, yeah. You mostly have those who lone - gun it. So there's strength in numbers. And they may have gotten away with doing that for decades, too. I just don't see where anyone would proudly publicize that kind of a risk about themselves, though.

On Fri, 19 Dec 2014 12:57:56 -0800 (PST), wrote:

S Ed Huntress

- hide quoted text -

On Fri, 19 Dec 2014 15:26:51 -0500, "Jim Wilkins wrote:


*
Does Mog dream up these imaginary obstacles to success to rationalize*
his own lack of it?*

Dream up -- yes. Excessive extrapolation from inadequate data. g*

Rationalize -- I don't know. He seems to be a speculator for all*reasons.*

Ed you can go by "seems" all you want. But at one end of the standard you've got my choice - business that plans for as many contingencies as is practical. On the other end, yeah. You mostly have those who lone - gun it. So there's strength in numbers. And they may have gotten away with doing that for decades, too. I just don't see where anyone would proudly publicize that kind of a risk about themselves, though.

Small business -- any business -- operates under the owner's own
"risk/reward" ratio calculations. You can't insure for every
contingency; it you try, the point becomes moot, because you can't
afford it and you're out of business anyway. And there are few
feelings more sinking than thinking you were secure with your
million-dollar insurance, and losing a lawsuit for two million.

So there are industry conventions about what to insure for, and each
owner's sense of how much risk one can control for while gaining a
reasonable reward. That's usually well short of what an insurance
company would recommend.

In many cases, the best way to reduce risk is to use your head,
combined with industry "best practices." Sometimes that will protect
you in court. At all times, it reduces the chance that you'll face a
liability in the first place.

But lawsuits can come out of left field. Then your insurance company
shrugs their shoulders and says "too bad."

As always, the best way to reduce your exposure and your risk is to
*think* before doing something stupid. A chain-link fence and some
visual barriers are better risk-reducers for a weld shop than personal
injury insurane. Another one is to never weld life-dependent parts. I
know two small weld shops that follow that practice. One of them
turned me down once for that very reason. He wouldn't shorten the
steering arms on a Ford Fiesta that I was preparing for IT-C racing.
Smart man.

--
Ed Huntress

On Friday, December 19, 2014 3:26:07 PM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Dec 2014 12:05:05 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Bob La Londe wrote

"Ignoramus11878" wrote in

I am just wondering what do you think about the prospects for
that
business idea. Maybe you are, were or know someone with that sort
of
business plan and know how it worked out.

I do have some opinions about it, but I will withhold them to see
what
you think. I just laid out pertinent facts.

Liability can be mitigated a number of ways. An attorney can help
him with
a simple service agreement for work that includes a limitation of
liability
depending on the type of work he does. Insurance is not required
most
places, but he can weigh the risks and make his own choices.

Difficulty in business is best resolved beforehand.

Would an attorney even want to work with a firm that has no full
time accountant working there, for example? Would a bank want to
make loans to such a company that has no full time lawyer working
there? Would an accountant wish to work with a company having less
than a certain number of employees or level of gross earnings? Would
an insurance company trust a client that didn't have all of these
things? If not, you can understand why insurance rates might
skyrocket for your operation.

You have to look at your business prospects through the eyes of
those you work with, too.

Of the 120,000 or so commercial metalworking shops in the US, I
doubt
if 10% of them have an accountant "working there," and probably no
more than 5% have lawyers on staff.

Those are independent services that one hires as needed.

Banks give those companies small-business loans all
the time. As for banks requiring insurance, it depends on the
bank's exposure and what assets they have encumbered with liens.

Does Mog dream up these imaginary obstacles to success to
rationalize his own lack of it?

I don't really know what you mean by rationalizing anything. Here in east coast electrical, HVAC and plumbing businesses the labor union contracts want long-timers to call the shots, then everyone else plays their part. So financially, you don't do too bad, but you don't do too good either (which is what I gather you are hinting at).

But I chose the labor and trade contracts and practices that I signed to be a part of forwork. So I don't care to have any of my own employees or major business assets. If I wanted to, I could go out and cheat against the big labor contract and work with side work and construction projects and give a single social security number to all of my hires and steal diesel fuel and sell it like they all do.

But I choose not to fight big labor and I choose to follow the advice from seniority that I legally get in these fields. In exchange, I get my share.

wrote in message
...
On Friday, December 19, 2014 3:26:07 PM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Dec 2014 12:05:05 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

Bob La Londe wrote

"Ignoramus11878" wrote in

I don't really know what you mean by rationalizing anything. Here in
east coast electrical, HVAC and plumbing businesses the labor union
contracts want long-timers to call the shots, then everyone else plays
their part. So financially, you don't do too bad, but you don't do
too good either (which is what I gather you are hinting at).

But I chose the labor and trade contracts and practices that I signed
to be a part of forwork. So I don't care to have any of my own
employees or major business assets. If I wanted to, I could go out
and cheat against the big labor contract and work with side work and
construction projects and give a single social security number to all
of my hires and steal diesel fuel and sell it like they all do.

But I choose not to fight big labor and I choose to follow the advice
from seniority that I legally get in these fields. In exchange, I get
my share.

===================

Oh, you live where the unions (=mob ) dominate the trades, like
Massachusetts. Lots of people move to Maine, NH or Vermont to get away
from that crap and control their own lives.

On Saturday, December 20, 2014 11:59:38 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Friday, December 19, 2014 3:26:07 PM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Dec 2014 12:05:05 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

Bob La Londe wrote

"Ignoramus11878" wrote in

I don't really know what you mean by rationalizing anything. Here in
east coast electrical, HVAC and plumbing businesses the labor union
contracts want long-timers to call the shots, then everyone else plays
their part. So financially, you don't do too bad, but you don't do
too good either (which is what I gather you are hinting at).

But I chose the labor and trade contracts and practices that I signed
to be a part of forwork. So I don't care to have any of my own
employees or major business assets. If I wanted to, I could go out
and cheat against the big labor contract and work with side work and
construction projects and give a single social security number to all
of my hires and steal diesel fuel and sell it like they all do.

But I choose not to fight big labor and I choose to follow the advice
from seniority that I legally get in these fields. In exchange, I get
my share.

===================

Oh, you live where the unions (=mob ) dominate the
trades, like Massachusetts. Lots of people move to
Maine, NH or Vermont to get away from that crap and control
their own lives.

I'd expect someone born and raised the range to say that. Like California, NY and Illinois, Vermont also won't just let you do anything you want there. They're very politically correct.

Now, I don't know about Rhode Island, Maine or NH though.