On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 13:46:11 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 13:16:28 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 11:34:48 -0600, Richard
wrote:

On 11/7/2014 12:08 PM, Ian Malcolm wrote:
wrote in news:Ydqdncz1e6oLZ8HJnZ2dnUU7-
:
Not at all.
But you COULD say that gelcoat is nothing but laminating resin with WAX
added...

No. Commercial gelcoat does *NOT* contain wax as it would impair the bond
to the laminating resin in the layup being applied to the gelcoat in the
mold. Flocoat contains wax for a non-tacky surface cure. Some entry
level gelcoat repair kits contain wax, but if you are serious, you either
seal polythene sheet over the repair to exclude air or use wax in styrene
additive.


Ok, I guess I'll retract that.

The stuff I use does have wax so that it is self sealing, but I take the
point...

The stuff you have likely is made for applying *after* a part is
pulled from a mold, on the outside of the laminate.. You need the wax
for that, or the surface could stay tacky forever. As Ian says, there
are better ways to block the air from the gelcoat, but most external
application is repair work, and, at Ranger, we added wax (or our
repair specialist did) for making patches.

Gelcoat sprayed in a mold, where it's covered with layers of glass and
resin, doesn't need it -- and is much better off without it.

The gelcoat-to-laminate bond is the most critical one, and needs the
strongest bond. Since I have a few minutes g let me try to add to
this discussion.

Polyester resin is a very poor adhesive. If you lay one layer of cloth
or woven roving (which is very coarse cloth) on top of another, the
peel strength and shear strength are very poor. The same is true if
you lay any fiberglass, including random-oriented mat, on top of
already-sured resin or even gelled, but not cured resin. That's what
happens when you lay the first layer of mat (or veil -- see below) on
top of the gelcoat in a mold. It has to be firmly gelled before you do
that or you'll poke through the gelcoat. And the result of letting the
gelcoat partially gel before continuing the laminating is that you
need all the help you can get to stick it to the next layer of
laminate -- no wax, please.

Now, about the interlayer strength of the laminate. Again, adhesive
strength of polyester resin is very poor. Cloth-to-cloth layers often
can be peeled apart by hand. The highest quality laminates, as in
expensive racing dinghies, use a minimum of mat because mat layers are
weak. But those boats, like all other expertly done polyester
laminates, must use mat between layers of cloth. Or they use veil,
also called "scrim," which is a very thin, semi-transparent layer of
mat. You get the best strength-to-weight, and stiffness-to-weight,
using veil and fairly light layers of cloth. (you can look up E-glass
versus S-glass to get more detail on making the best polyester
laminates.)

When the resin, or the styrene monomer in the resin, dissolves the
binder that holds dry mat together, the fibers get loose and tend to
"cog" their way into the layers of cloth above and below as the layers
are brushed out, and poked with the brush, or rolled out with a disk
roller. This assumes that all layers are still wet.

That's where the interlayer strength comes from. Polyester is a lousy
adhesive but it has decent bulk strength, in a laminate, at least, and
it holds those cogged pieces of mat into an interlocked mass with the
cloth. (The cloth is inherently stronger because of the long-fiber
orientation, not really because the fibers are just longer.) That
overcomes the lack of peel strength and sheer strength in the resin.
Unfortunately, you can't achieve the high glass-to-resin ratios with
mat that you can with cloth, so the mat parts of a laminate are
inherently weaker and a lot less flexible. Any boat that uses more
than a minimum necessary amount of mat is less strong -- but cheaper
to build.

About wax: The best deal is to use resin without wax until you get to
the last layer, the one that will be cured while exposed to air. But
the wax dissolves in the resin, and, if you lay one layer of waxed
resin on rop of another, most of the wax will dissolve again and rise
to the top. How much, I don't know, but I know that many boats have
been made with waxed resin in each layer of laminate, and I've never
heard of it causing a delaminating problem by itself. Maybe it does;
perhaps Ian knows.

One final thing: None of this applies to epoxy laminates. Epoxy has
such strong adhesive properties that you can laminate one layer of
cloth on top of another. Epoxy laminates are a lot stronger to begin
with. Avoiding the use of mat makes them even stronger.

Watch out, though, that your glass cloth, or mat if you use any with
epoxy, are made for use with epoxy. The finish on glass cloth made for
polyester is actually weaker than a straight glass-to-epoxy bond.
Don't use it.

As for mat, the binder won't dissolve in epoxy. Try it, and you're
likely to get a real mess. (this is the voice of sad experience --
before I learned about this). But you shouldn't be using mat with
epoxy in the first place. Epoxy make a much stronger laminate without
it.

Phwew. g

While you are accurate in saying that the binder used in common
chopped mat is dissolved by styrene based resins and not by epoxy
resins, common chopped mat can still be used with epoxy.

If you are careful and completely wet out chopped mat with epoxy you
can make a composite that is very satisfactory for most uses. The
difference between water absorbency between epoxy and cloth and epoxy
and chopped mat, for example, is about 0.4%.

The WEST Systems people have done tests of epoxy and common chopped
mate, see:
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/chopped-strand-mat-epoxy/
and while they don't suggest it as a first choice they do say that it
is usable.

"Usable," as long as you don't try to drape it or bend it.

That's where the problem comes in. You can't tuck it into a corner.
You can'r get it to stick when you bend it over a curve. It keeps
pulling away. because the binder won't dissolve and free the fibers.
And that's the problem I've had with it.

It also won't wet out as well in epoxy because the fibers won't move.
I didn't follow your link but I'll bet it's the one that says you can
use it with epoxy with some big limitations. OK, for flat surfaces.
Maybe for decks. There aren't a lot of flat surfaces on a boat that
don't involve bending over an inside or outside corner. With
polyester, it's no problem. With epoxy, forget it, unless you
vacuum-bag or make some kind of device to clamp it in place while it's
curing.


I might mention that I've used a fair amount of chopped mat with epoxy
with no problems whatsoever. Not, I might add, because I thought it
was better but because I had a considerable amount of it on hand and
no woven cloth of the right weight :-)

Again, it's really a product for polyester. There, it's very useful.
Its sensible uses with opoxy are very limited.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 13:46:11 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:



The WEST Systems people have done tests of epoxy and common chopped
mate, see:
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/chopped-strand-mat-epoxy/
and while they don't suggest it as a first choice they do say that it
is usable.

OK, I had a few minutes and read that link. That's the one I thought
it was; WEST published it over a decade ago.

The stitched mat he mentions is the stuff made for use with epoxy.
That's not the mat we buy that's made for use with polyester. The
stitched mat has no binder.

The author wrote sbout his experiments and said regular mat "should
work fine" on gently curving projects.

Maybe. If the curve is too much, you can have one hell of a mess. The
fibers start to pull away as you work it; some stick to whatever
you're bonding to, and the rest tend to tear loose as you keep working
it, trying to get around the bend or curve.

Unlike polyester, you don't get that sharp initial gel stage with
epoxy. In tends to just keep getting thicker. With polyester, if the
project isn't too large, you can mix it a little hot and just keep
poking it with the end of a brush, or rolling it, until it takes the
shape you want. It will still adhere in the early stages of gelling
(so will epoxy). That will take only ten to fifteen minutes, at most,
with a moderately hot polyester mix -- one that isn't too hot to
produce good finished properties.

Getting cloth around a corner, with no mat, can also be difficult with
epoxy. In general, it's much harder to work with, if there is any
complexity to the shapes you're trying to cover, than polyester. If
the surfaces are flat, or nearly so, it's no problem.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 09:26:20 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 13:46:11 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 13:16:28 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sat, 08 Nov 2014 11:34:48 -0600, Richard
wrote:

On 11/7/2014 12:08 PM, Ian Malcolm wrote:
wrote in news:Ydqdncz1e6oLZ8HJnZ2dnUU7-
:
Not at all.
But you COULD say that gelcoat is nothing but laminating resin with WAX
added...

No. Commercial gelcoat does *NOT* contain wax as it would impair the bond
to the laminating resin in the layup being applied to the gelcoat in the
mold. Flocoat contains wax for a non-tacky surface cure. Some entry
level gelcoat repair kits contain wax, but if you are serious, you either
seal polythene sheet over the repair to exclude air or use wax in styrene
additive.


Ok, I guess I'll retract that.

The stuff I use does have wax so that it is self sealing, but I take the
point...

The stuff you have likely is made for applying *after* a part is
pulled from a mold, on the outside of the laminate.. You need the wax
for that, or the surface could stay tacky forever. As Ian says, there
are better ways to block the air from the gelcoat, but most external
application is repair work, and, at Ranger, we added wax (or our
repair specialist did) for making patches.

Gelcoat sprayed in a mold, where it's covered with layers of glass and
resin, doesn't need it -- and is much better off without it.

The gelcoat-to-laminate bond is the most critical one, and needs the
strongest bond. Since I have a few minutes g let me try to add to
this discussion.

Polyester resin is a very poor adhesive. If you lay one layer of cloth
or woven roving (which is very coarse cloth) on top of another, the
peel strength and shear strength are very poor. The same is true if
you lay any fiberglass, including random-oriented mat, on top of
already-sured resin or even gelled, but not cured resin. That's what
happens when you lay the first layer of mat (or veil -- see below) on
top of the gelcoat in a mold. It has to be firmly gelled before you do
that or you'll poke through the gelcoat. And the result of letting the
gelcoat partially gel before continuing the laminating is that you
need all the help you can get to stick it to the next layer of
laminate -- no wax, please.

Now, about the interlayer strength of the laminate. Again, adhesive
strength of polyester resin is very poor. Cloth-to-cloth layers often
can be peeled apart by hand. The highest quality laminates, as in
expensive racing dinghies, use a minimum of mat because mat layers are
weak. But those boats, like all other expertly done polyester
laminates, must use mat between layers of cloth. Or they use veil,
also called "scrim," which is a very thin, semi-transparent layer of
mat. You get the best strength-to-weight, and stiffness-to-weight,
using veil and fairly light layers of cloth. (you can look up E-glass
versus S-glass to get more detail on making the best polyester
laminates.)

When the resin, or the styrene monomer in the resin, dissolves the
binder that holds dry mat together, the fibers get loose and tend to
"cog" their way into the layers of cloth above and below as the layers
are brushed out, and poked with the brush, or rolled out with a disk
roller. This assumes that all layers are still wet.

That's where the interlayer strength comes from. Polyester is a lousy
adhesive but it has decent bulk strength, in a laminate, at least, and
it holds those cogged pieces of mat into an interlocked mass with the
cloth. (The cloth is inherently stronger because of the long-fiber
orientation, not really because the fibers are just longer.) That
overcomes the lack of peel strength and sheer strength in the resin.
Unfortunately, you can't achieve the high glass-to-resin ratios with
mat that you can with cloth, so the mat parts of a laminate are
inherently weaker and a lot less flexible. Any boat that uses more
than a minimum necessary amount of mat is less strong -- but cheaper
to build.

About wax: The best deal is to use resin without wax until you get to
the last layer, the one that will be cured while exposed to air. But
the wax dissolves in the resin, and, if you lay one layer of waxed
resin on rop of another, most of the wax will dissolve again and rise
to the top. How much, I don't know, but I know that many boats have
been made with waxed resin in each layer of laminate, and I've never
heard of it causing a delaminating problem by itself. Maybe it does;
perhaps Ian knows.

One final thing: None of this applies to epoxy laminates. Epoxy has
such strong adhesive properties that you can laminate one layer of
cloth on top of another. Epoxy laminates are a lot stronger to begin
with. Avoiding the use of mat makes them even stronger.

Watch out, though, that your glass cloth, or mat if you use any with
epoxy, are made for use with epoxy. The finish on glass cloth made for
polyester is actually weaker than a straight glass-to-epoxy bond.
Don't use it.

As for mat, the binder won't dissolve in epoxy. Try it, and you're
likely to get a real mess. (this is the voice of sad experience --
before I learned about this). But you shouldn't be using mat with
epoxy in the first place. Epoxy make a much stronger laminate without
it.

Phwew. g

While you are accurate in saying that the binder used in common
chopped mat is dissolved by styrene based resins and not by epoxy
resins, common chopped mat can still be used with epoxy.

If you are careful and completely wet out chopped mat with epoxy you
can make a composite that is very satisfactory for most uses. The
difference between water absorbency between epoxy and cloth and epoxy
and chopped mat, for example, is about 0.4%.

The WEST Systems people have done tests of epoxy and common chopped
mate, see:

and while they don't suggest it as a first choice they do say that it
is usable.

"Usable," as long as you don't try to drape it or bend it.

That's where the problem comes in. You can't tuck it into a corner.
You can'r get it to stick when you bend it over a curve. It keeps
pulling away. because the binder won't dissolve and free the fibers.
And that's the problem I've had with it.

Perhaps you weren't using it "correctly". In my experience it
certainly will drape and tuck into corners although with more effort
than when using polyester resin.

The WEST System people write "The fiberglass strand in mat wets out
with epoxy, but the binder holding things together does not dissolve.
(It does get put into suspension and is sealed in the cured epoxy.)
This un dissolved binder causes the wet-out mat to remain a bit stiff
compared to wet out with a styrene-based resin."

I have used it to make fairings to cover electric cable outlets on
boats
see http://www.kitplanes.com/magazine/mi...us/8875-1.html
for similar items although not exactly, mine were larger.

It also won't wet out as well in epoxy because the fibers won't move.
I didn't follow your link but I'll bet it's the one that says you can
use it with epoxy with some big limitations. OK, for flat surfaces.
Maybe for decks. There aren't a lot of flat surfaces on a boat that
don't involve bending over an inside or outside corner. With
polyester, it's no problem. With epoxy, forget it, unless you
vacuum-bag or make some kind of device to clamp it in place while it's
curing.

Nope. your problem was either that you were using some sort of fast,
or fairly fast resin/hardener mix or that you didn't persevere. If you
wet out the mat with epoxy (just as WEST says) "the mat "binder" will
go into suspension" and release the mat strands to an extent that you
can form the mat. It does take longer then the very rapid loosening
when using polyester but it does happen.


I might mention that I've used a fair amount of chopped mat with epoxy
with no problems whatsoever. Not, I might add, because I thought it
was better but because I had a considerable amount of it on hand and
no woven cloth of the right weight :-)

Again, it's really a product for polyester. There, it's very useful.
Its sensible uses with opoxy are very limited.

Well, perhaps "sensible" is a bit debatable. I've done simple adhesion
tests - epoxy it to a board and try to pull it off - and it seems
about the same as epoxied cloth; I had it and it worked, thus I didn't
have to buy any more materials; the guy I did it for was satisfied
(and paid me) and so far - maybe 5 years - the customer hasn't come
back to complain that the fairings fell off or disintegrated :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 10:58:42 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 13:46:11 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:



The WEST Systems people have done tests of epoxy and common chopped
mate, see:
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/chopped-strand-mat-epoxy/
and while they don't suggest it as a first choice they do say that it
is usable.

OK, I had a few minutes and read that link. That's the one I thought
it was; WEST published it over a decade ago.

Ed, I've got instructions that date back a hundred years or more and
are still correct.

The stitched mat he mentions is the stuff made for use with epoxy.
That's not the mat we buy that's made for use with polyester. The
stitched mat has no binder.

No Ed, he mentions that there is stitched mat made for use with epoxy
but the article was very obviously written to discuss the use of epoxy
with regular old chopped mat sold for use with polyester.

In fact WEST says, in part, "Testing in warm/moist conditions:
To see if our concerns were justified, we compared samples of generic
chopped strand mat (wet out with WEST SYSTEM 105 Resin and 206
Hardener) against samples made with our Episize fiberglass fabrics
(wet out with 105/206)"... "Our test included three specimens of
chopped strand mat, two different sources of 1.5 oz and one 3 oz. One
of the samples was made with generic mat found on the fiberglass rack
in our shop, and the other two were purchased from Composite
Structures Technology in Tehachapi, California. (661-822-4162)"

The author wrote sbout his experiments and said regular mat "should
work fine" on gently curving projects.

Maybe. If the curve is too much, you can have one hell of a mess. The
fibers start to pull away as you work it; some stick to whatever
you're bonding to, and the rest tend to tear loose as you keep working
it, trying to get around the bend or curve.


Not to be sarcastic but I believe that you are getting into the a
totally different area than whether it is possible to use common
chopped mat with epoxy or not. You tried and failed; I tried and
succeeded.

Unlike polyester, you don't get that sharp initial gel stage with
epoxy. In tends to just keep getting thicker. With polyester, if the
project isn't too large, you can mix it a little hot and just keep
poking it with the end of a brush, or rolling it, until it takes the
shape you want. It will still adhere in the early stages of gelling
(so will epoxy). That will take only ten to fifteen minutes, at most,
with a moderately hot polyester mix -- one that isn't too hot to
produce good finished properties.

Getting cloth around a corner, with no mat, can also be difficult with
epoxy. In general, it's much harder to work with, if there is any
complexity to the shapes you're trying to cover, than polyester. If
the surfaces are flat, or nearly so, it's no problem.

Again, you seem to be sliding off in a different direction. As I said
before, you tried and failed. This is not evidence that it doesn't
work.

After all I succeeded :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 10:30:40 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 10:58:42 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 13:46:11 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:



The WEST Systems people have done tests of epoxy and common chopped
mate, see:
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/chopped-strand-mat-epoxy/
and while they don't suggest it as a first choice they do say that it
is usable.

OK, I had a few minutes and read that link. That's the one I thought
it was; WEST published it over a decade ago.

Ed, I've got instructions that date back a hundred years or more and
are still correct.

The stitched mat he mentions is the stuff made for use with epoxy.
That's not the mat we buy that's made for use with polyester. The
stitched mat has no binder.

No Ed, he mentions that there is stitched mat made for use with epoxy
but the article was very obviously written to discuss the use of epoxy
with regular old chopped mat sold for use with polyester.

Yes, I'm aware of that John. As I said, though, the stitched mat
that's mentioned in the article is the one generally used with epoxy.

I've read your experience, and all I can say is that it's not mine.


In fact WEST says, in part, "Testing in warm/moist conditions:
To see if our concerns were justified, we compared samples of generic
chopped strand mat (wet out with WEST SYSTEM 105 Resin and 206
Hardener) against samples made with our Episize fiberglass fabrics
(wet out with 105/206)"... "Our test included three specimens of
chopped strand mat, two different sources of 1.5 oz and one 3 oz. One
of the samples was made with generic mat found on the fiberglass rack
in our shop, and the other two were purchased from Composite
Structures Technology in Tehachapi, California. (661-822-4162)"

The author wrote sbout his experiments and said regular mat "should
work fine" on gently curving projects.

Maybe. If the curve is too much, you can have one hell of a mess. The
fibers start to pull away as you work it; some stick to whatever
you're bonding to, and the rest tend to tear loose as you keep working
it, trying to get around the bend or curve.


Not to be sarcastic but I believe that you are getting into the a
totally different area than whether it is possible to use common
chopped mat with epoxy or not. You tried and failed; I tried and
succeeded.

Good, I'm glad it worked for you.


Unlike polyester, you don't get that sharp initial gel stage with
epoxy. In tends to just keep getting thicker. With polyester, if the
project isn't too large, you can mix it a little hot and just keep
poking it with the end of a brush, or rolling it, until it takes the
shape you want. It will still adhere in the early stages of gelling
(so will epoxy). That will take only ten to fifteen minutes, at most,
with a moderately hot polyester mix -- one that isn't too hot to
produce good finished properties.

Getting cloth around a corner, with no mat, can also be difficult with
epoxy. In general, it's much harder to work with, if there is any
complexity to the shapes you're trying to cover, than polyester. If
the surfaces are flat, or nearly so, it's no problem.

Again, you seem to be sliding off in a different direction. As I said
before, you tried and failed. This is not evidence that it doesn't
work.

After all I succeeded :-)

Yes you did. That's great.

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 12:36:40 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
Now I'm done. I have to get ready to go to FABTECH in Atlanta.

Watch for Jody from weldingtipsandtricks.com while your there.

===
From: weldingtipsandtricks

"I will be at fabtech in Atlanta this week. Keep an eye out for me and
make sure to say Hi. Leave a comment, or hit thumbs up button and
subscribe too... if you like this sorta thing. "
===

See his comments for the his latest in the MIG series:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvjZNTqi_aU

From what I've seen on youtube he should be pretty interesting to
chat with ;-)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 14:46:03 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 12:36:40 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
Now I'm done. I have to get ready to go to FABTECH in Atlanta.

Watch for Jody from weldingtipsandtricks.com while your there.

===
From: weldingtipsandtricks

"I will be at fabtech in Atlanta this week. Keep an eye out for me and
make sure to say Hi. Leave a comment, or hit thumbs up button and
subscribe too... if you like this sorta thing. "
===

See his comments for the his latest in the MIG series:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvjZNTqi_aU

From what I've seen on youtube he should be pretty interesting to
chat with ;-)

Eh, too bad, I didn't see this in time. I just got home.

Man, the welding pavilion was jammed. There was so much stuff there it
was hard to believe.

We have a new welding magazine coming out in February (_Welding
Productivity_), and we had our two new editors covering it. I was
focusing on laser welding and non-welding subjects for FAB Shop, and
was only in the general welding area on Wednesday. Mostly I was tied
up there in meetings.

Business was popping. Big crowds. Very upbeat visitors. Lots of
automation. Direct-diode lasers -- very cool, and we'll see big ones
on the market sometime next year.

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:53:01 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 14:46:03 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 12:36:40 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
Now I'm done. I have to get ready to go to FABTECH in Atlanta.

Watch for Jody from weldingtipsandtricks.com while your there.

===
From: weldingtipsandtricks

"I will be at fabtech in Atlanta this week. Keep an eye out for me and
make sure to say Hi. Leave a comment, or hit thumbs up button and
subscribe too... if you like this sorta thing. "
===

See his comments for the his latest in the MIG series:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvjZNTqi_aU

From what I've seen on youtube he should be pretty interesting to
chat with ;-)

Eh, too bad, I didn't see this in time. I just got home.

Oh well, I tried

Jody usually posts something about the stuff he came across/saw there
too. You might want to let him know about your new publications coming
out. I think your audiences are a bit different but then again he is
helping a lot of people get welding certificates for employment use...

snip

Business was popping. Big crowds. Very upbeat visitors. Lots of
automation. Direct-diode lasers -- very cool, and we'll see big ones
on the market sometime next year.

Interesting stuff. Read in the newspaper yesterday that GM is laying off
510 workers here in MI...

On a completely different topic, check out how the GR Press electronic
version works. Usually you need a password but the system seems to be
open right now:

http://grandrapidspress.mi.newsmemory.com/

You don't need Flash or anything special but Javascript enabled. Notice
the other options/formats up along the top menu bar too. I can read
your Magazines via pdf but I don't have/allow Flash on the computer...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:44:11 -0400
Leon Fisk wrote:

snip
Jody usually posts something about the stuff he came across/saw there
too.

Lincoln Aspect 375 Tig Welder - FabTech 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzK-iYEXoL4

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Sat, 15 Nov 2014 14:09:50 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:44:11 -0400
Leon Fisk wrote:

snip
Jody usually posts something about the stuff he came across/saw there
too.

Lincoln Aspect 375 Tig Welder - FabTech 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzK-iYEXoL4

He does a really nice job in front of the camera, Leon. Next time I
attend one of the big shows, I'll have to look him up.

It makes me want to take up TIG welding, it does. Now, if I could only
extend days to 28 hours or so. g

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:30:13 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
He does a really nice job in front of the camera, Leon. Next time I
attend one of the big shows, I'll have to look him up.

It makes me want to take up TIG welding, it does. Now, if I could only
extend days to 28 hours or so. g

Yes he does. Interesting machine there too...

I'm thinking they will soon have an "app" to install that will
communicate with the welder via bluetooth or wi-fi. The latter would
allow big shops to network the machines. You'll be able to download
custom setups for special welding applications, save setups for future
runs and create logs showing how the welder was running during use. Most
likely already out there or being played with...

The machine I would like is around $2k, a bit much for my doodling
around. I already have arc, mig and oxy/acy. I still enjoy
watching/learning though

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:51:00 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:30:13 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
He does a really nice job in front of the camera, Leon. Next time I
attend one of the big shows, I'll have to look him up.

It makes me want to take up TIG welding, it does. Now, if I could only
extend days to 28 hours or so. g

Yes he does. Interesting machine there too...

I'm thinking they will soon have an "app" to install that will
communicate with the welder via bluetooth or wi-fi. The latter would
allow big shops to network the machines. You'll be able to download
custom setups for special welding applications, save setups for future
runs and create logs showing how the welder was running during use. Most
likely already out there or being played with...

The machine I would like is around $2k, a bit much for my doodling
around. I already have arc, mig and oxy/acy. I still enjoy
watching/learning though

If its not off topic....(Grin)....I do have a nice Airco (esab) 250
amp SQUARE wave tig (transformer machine) with pedal, chiller, new
torch and hoses and regulator on a decent roll around cart with
welding table mounted on it.... for Somewhere around $1200-1500...for
anyone here that can use it.

240 single phase of course.

Gunner, Central California




"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke