Looking for some ideas on a little hypothetical issue.........

If I wanted to make a few hundred plastic parts per year like those at
the following links:



https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0/IMG_0161.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0/IMG_0162.JPG


I'm pretty sure the plastic is UPVC. Its around 1.2mm thick.


I'm thinking:

1) Turn up some quick dies from some mild steel scrap.
2) Use a porta-power or 2 ton arbor press to punch out the sheets as
circles and then re-punch as an annulus.
3) Machine up some dies in steel or aluminum.
4) Press form them to shape.


I'm not too fussed about the 3 small bosses - I can just drill those
holes later on.

Am I dreaming to think I might be able to get a nice clean edge and get
them to form nicely when pressed? I can buy them at $6 per unit but if I
could make them for $2 I might be able to earn a few dollars.

Thoughts?

Stoob fired this volley in
. au:

If I wanted to make a few hundred plastic parts per year like those at
the following links:

Why? You can buy Bic Klik pens for about a dime each in bulk!
G

IF they're really uPVC, you won't get much joy press forming them, unless
you are willing to pre-heat the sheet before pressing. Were you to use a
plasticized version, figuring out the over-travel of the mold might be a
difficult process, unless you have a lot of experience with the material
and methods.

LLoyd

On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:55:08 +0800, Stoob wrote:


Looking for some ideas on a little hypothetical issue.........

If I wanted to make a few hundred plastic parts per year like those at
the following links:



https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0/IMG_0161.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0/IMG_0162.JPG


I'm pretty sure the plastic is UPVC. Its around 1.2mm thick.


I'm thinking:

1) Turn up some quick dies from some mild steel scrap.
2) Use a porta-power or 2 ton arbor press to punch out the sheets as
circles and then re-punch as an annulus.
3) Machine up some dies in steel or aluminum.
4) Press form them to shape.


I'm not too fussed about the 3 small bosses - I can just drill those
holes later on.

Am I dreaming to think I might be able to get a nice clean edge and get
them to form nicely when pressed? I can buy them at $6 per unit but if I
could make them for $2 I might be able to earn a few dollars.

Thoughts?

You're not likely to get the neat conical-to-flat transition by
pressing cold. PVC forms easily when heated, and a two-part forming
punch and die would get you the basic shape.

Commercial vacuum-forming setups for PVC use simple electric heaters
and, often, plaster male dies, with no punch, and produce quite
complex shapes.

It is possible to do this at home, but making the heater, rigging the
vaccum pump, etc., would eat up a lot of your profits for just a few
hundred parts.

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 04:40:34 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Stoob fired this volley in
.au:

If I wanted to make a few hundred plastic parts per year like those at
the following links:

Why? You can buy Bic Klik pens for about a dime each in bulk!
G

Um, I think he's going for the surround, not the lugs, mon.
I just ordered 300 Bic Click Sticks for $117, custom imprinted for the
biz. They're the best farkin' pen on the market. Great for just $0.39
a pop.


--
Resolve to be thyself: and know, that he who finds himself, loses his misery.
-- Matthew Arnold

Stoob wrote in
. au:


Looking for some ideas on a little hypothetical issue.........

If I wanted to make a few hundred plastic parts per year like those at
the following links:

snip

I'm not too fussed about the 3 small bosses - I can just drill those
holes later on.

Am I dreaming to think I might be able to get a nice clean edge and get
them to form nicely when pressed? I can buy them at $6 per unit but if
I could make them for $2 I might be able to earn a few dollars.

Thoughts?

So you want to compete with a (probably) Chinese factory knocking these
out in 10K or 100K lots to produce a couple of hundred a year?

Eveyone else has commented on the poor results and high cost you are
likely to get. I'll just note that without the pillars its likely to
objectionally distort if you through bolt it so you are probably going to
need to bond three pieces of suitable tube to the inside as well.

Why not figure out where they are made and see if you can order 1000
direct from the factory or top level distributer. You should be able to
shave a couple of bucks off the unit price.

However if 1000 is a three year supply, you need at least 30% off and to
be flush with cash to make it worth tying up the money in stock.


--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

Um, I think he's going for the surround, not the lugs, mon.

So... you only read the first line with the grin after it?
What about the plastics comments, Larry?

Lloyd

On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 17:18:59 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

Um, I think he's going for the surround, not the lugs, mon.

So... you only read the first line with the grin after it?

Sarcasm is just another fine service I offer.


What about the plastics comments, Larry?

I don't know a thing about extruding or pressing hot plastic, so I
abstained from the conversation on that level.

--
One word frees us of all the weight and pain of life: That word is love.
-- Sophocles

On 19-Sep-14 5:40 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Stoob fired this volley in
. au:

If I wanted to make a few hundred plastic parts per year like those at
the following links:

Why? You can buy Bic Klik pens for about a dime each in bulk!
G

I tend to find 'em at work....



IF they're really uPVC, you won't get much joy press forming them, unless
you are willing to pre-heat the sheet before pressing. Were you to use a
plasticized version, figuring out the over-travel of the mold might be a
difficult process, unless you have a lot of experience with the material
and methods.

LLoyd


Preheating probably wouldn't be a problem. Just trying to toss around
ideas to see if its worth the effort.

On 19-Sep-14 10:32 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:55:08 +0800, Stoob wrote:


Looking for some ideas on a little hypothetical issue.........

If I wanted to make a few hundred plastic parts per year like those at
the following links:



https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0/IMG_0161.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0/IMG_0162.JPG


I'm pretty sure the plastic is UPVC. Its around 1.2mm thick.


I'm thinking:

1) Turn up some quick dies from some mild steel scrap.
2) Use a porta-power or 2 ton arbor press to punch out the sheets as
circles and then re-punch as an annulus.
3) Machine up some dies in steel or aluminum.
4) Press form them to shape.


I'm not too fussed about the 3 small bosses - I can just drill those
holes later on.

Am I dreaming to think I might be able to get a nice clean edge and get
them to form nicely when pressed? I can buy them at $6 per unit but if I
could make them for $2 I might be able to earn a few dollars.

Thoughts?

You're not likely to get the neat conical-to-flat transition by
pressing cold. PVC forms easily when heated, and a two-part forming
punch and die would get you the basic shape.

Commercial vacuum-forming setups for PVC use simple electric heaters
and, often, plaster male dies, with no punch, and produce quite
complex shapes.

It is possible to do this at home, but making the heater, rigging the
vaccum pump, etc., would eat up a lot of your profits for just a few
hundred parts.



Vacuum forming is something I hadn't thought of - that's another option.

I'm not too fussed about having a sharp transition from the angle to the
flat. I just want them uniform and tidy looking.

On 20-Sep-14 12:52 AM, Ian Malcolm wrote:
Stoob wrote in
. au:


Looking for some ideas on a little hypothetical issue.........

If I wanted to make a few hundred plastic parts per year like those at
the following links:

snip

I'm not too fussed about the 3 small bosses - I can just drill those
holes later on.

Am I dreaming to think I might be able to get a nice clean edge and get
them to form nicely when pressed? I can buy them at $6 per unit but if
I could make them for $2 I might be able to earn a few dollars.

Thoughts?

So you want to compete with a (probably) Chinese factory knocking these
out in 10K or 100K lots to produce a couple of hundred a year?

Eveyone else has commented on the poor results and high cost you are
likely to get. I'll just note that without the pillars its likely to
objectionally distort if you through bolt it so you are probably going to
need to bond three pieces of suitable tube to the inside as well.

Why not figure out where they are made and see if you can order 1000
direct from the factory or top level distributer. You should be able to
shave a couple of bucks off the unit price.

However if 1000 is a three year supply, you need at least 30% off and to
be flush with cash to make it worth tying up the money in stock.



You make some good points Ian - sometimes I tend to overlook common sense.

They are a niche items and its hard to find who actually makes them. I
suspect the supplier I have may have spent the money on a die and have
them run a batch of a thousand or so once per year.

On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 16:52:41 +0000 (UTC), Ian Malcolm
wrote:

Stoob wrote in
.au:


Looking for some ideas on a little hypothetical issue.........

If I wanted to make a few hundred plastic parts per year like those at
the following links:

snip

I'm not too fussed about the 3 small bosses - I can just drill those
holes later on.

Am I dreaming to think I might be able to get a nice clean edge and get
them to form nicely when pressed? I can buy them at $6 per unit but if
I could make them for $2 I might be able to earn a few dollars.

Thoughts?

So you want to compete with a (probably) Chinese factory knocking these
out in 10K or 100K lots to produce a couple of hundred a year?

Eveyone else has commented on the poor results and high cost you are
likely to get. I'll just note that without the pillars its likely to
objectionally distort if you through bolt it so you are probably going to
need to bond three pieces of suitable tube to the inside as well.

Why not figure out where they are made and see if you can order 1000
direct from the factory or top level distributer. You should be able to
shave a couple of bucks off the unit price.

However if 1000 is a three year supply, you need at least 30% off and to
be flush with cash to make it worth tying up the money in stock.


--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL

I agree with Ian.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:55:08 +0800, Stoob
wrote:

Looking for some ideas on a little hypothetical issue.........

If I wanted to make a few hundred plastic parts per year like those at
the following links:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0/IMG_0161.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0/IMG_0162.JPG

I'm pretty sure the plastic is UPVC. Its around 1.2mm thick.

I'm thinking:

1) Turn up some quick dies from some mild steel scrap.
2) Use a porta-power or 2 ton arbor press to punch out the sheets as
circles and then re-punch as an annulus.
3) Machine up some dies in steel or aluminum.
4) Press form them to shape.


I'm not too fussed about the 3 small bosses - I can just drill those
holes later on.

Am I dreaming to think I might be able to get a nice clean edge and get
them to form nicely when pressed? I can buy them at $6 per unit but if I
could make them for $2 I might be able to earn a few dollars.

Thoughts?
=================
While the size is at the upper limit for large hobby
machines, it might be worthwhile to evaluate 3D printing to
produce to need. Looks like a fairly simple design. This
would set you up for many other similar projects/prototypes
and would allow easy customization.

one possible machine
http://tinyurl.com/p93bjcb

machine in action
http://tinyurl.com/kjzj5va
http://tinyurl.com/lwhdb2q
http://tinyurl.com/ofngr4d

download free control software for evaluation at
http://tinyurl.com/n9b9ncr



--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On 21-Sep-14 9:33 AM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:55:08 +0800, Stoob
wrote:

Looking for some ideas on a little hypothetical issue.........

If I wanted to make a few hundred plastic parts per year like those at
the following links:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0/IMG_0161.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0/IMG_0162.JPG

I'm pretty sure the plastic is UPVC. Its around 1.2mm thick.

I'm thinking:

1) Turn up some quick dies from some mild steel scrap.
2) Use a porta-power or 2 ton arbor press to punch out the sheets as
circles and then re-punch as an annulus.
3) Machine up some dies in steel or aluminum.
4) Press form them to shape.


I'm not too fussed about the 3 small bosses - I can just drill those
holes later on.

Am I dreaming to think I might be able to get a nice clean edge and get
them to form nicely when pressed? I can buy them at $6 per unit but if I
could make them for $2 I might be able to earn a few dollars.

Thoughts?
=================
While the size is at the upper limit for large hobby
machines, it might be worthwhile to evaluate 3D printing to
produce to need. Looks like a fairly simple design. This
would set you up for many other similar projects/prototypes
and would allow easy customization.

one possible machine
http://tinyurl.com/p93bjcb

machine in action
http://tinyurl.com/kjzj5va
http://tinyurl.com/lwhdb2q
http://tinyurl.com/ofngr4d

download free control software for evaluation at
http://tinyurl.com/n9b9ncr




Yeah the thought of that crossed my mind, I thought they make take
waaaaay to long to be made. It's 5" diameter x 1" tall.

On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 18:18:25 +0800, Stoob
wrote:

On 21-Sep-14 9:33 AM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:55:08 +0800, Stoob
wrote:

Looking for some ideas on a little hypothetical issue.........

If I wanted to make a few hundred plastic parts per year like those at
the following links:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0/IMG_0161.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0/IMG_0162.JPG

I'm pretty sure the plastic is UPVC. Its around 1.2mm thick.

I'm thinking:

1) Turn up some quick dies from some mild steel scrap.
2) Use a porta-power or 2 ton arbor press to punch out the sheets as
circles and then re-punch as an annulus.
3) Machine up some dies in steel or aluminum.
4) Press form them to shape.


I'm not too fussed about the 3 small bosses - I can just drill those
holes later on.

Am I dreaming to think I might be able to get a nice clean edge and get
them to form nicely when pressed? I can buy them at $6 per unit but if I
could make them for $2 I might be able to earn a few dollars.

Thoughts?
=================
While the size is at the upper limit for large hobby
machines, it might be worthwhile to evaluate 3D printing to
produce to need. Looks like a fairly simple design. This
would set you up for many other similar projects/prototypes
and would allow easy customization.

one possible machine
http://tinyurl.com/p93bjcb

machine in action
http://tinyurl.com/kjzj5va
http://tinyurl.com/lwhdb2q
http://tinyurl.com/ofngr4d

download free control software for evaluation at
http://tinyurl.com/n9b9ncr




Yeah the thought of that crossed my mind, I thought they make take
waaaaay to long to be made. It's 5" diameter x 1" tall.


If this runs unattended, and you only need a few or one at a
time this would not seem to be a problem, even if takes an
hour or more per part.

While the actual generation of the part may take some time,
there is little to no set-up, other than loading the program
and possibly switching filiment. With vacuum or hot
forming, the set-up/prep (heating the sheet) will be much
longer and tooling (which you will have to make) in addition
to being expensive and dedicated, will be occupy a lot of
space even when it is not being used.

Also any changes will require reworking the tooling, for
example, when the customer asks you "please make the OD 2.5
mm bigger, and while your at it, could you add some ribs for
additional support, and add our logo, and we need three
tomorrow."


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On 21-Sep-14 10:47 PM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 18:18:25 +0800, Stoob
wrote:

On 21-Sep-14 9:33 AM, F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:55:08 +0800, Stoob
wrote:

Looking for some ideas on a little hypothetical issue.........

If I wanted to make a few hundred plastic parts per year like those at
the following links:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0/IMG_0161.JPG

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0/IMG_0162.JPG

I'm pretty sure the plastic is UPVC. Its around 1.2mm thick.

I'm thinking:

1) Turn up some quick dies from some mild steel scrap.
2) Use a porta-power or 2 ton arbor press to punch out the sheets as
circles and then re-punch as an annulus.
3) Machine up some dies in steel or aluminum.
4) Press form them to shape.


I'm not too fussed about the 3 small bosses - I can just drill those
holes later on.

Am I dreaming to think I might be able to get a nice clean edge and get
them to form nicely when pressed? I can buy them at $6 per unit but if I
could make them for $2 I might be able to earn a few dollars.

Thoughts?
=================
While the size is at the upper limit for large hobby
machines, it might be worthwhile to evaluate 3D printing to
produce to need. Looks like a fairly simple design. This
would set you up for many other similar projects/prototypes
and would allow easy customization.

one possible machine
http://tinyurl.com/p93bjcb

machine in action
http://tinyurl.com/kjzj5va
http://tinyurl.com/lwhdb2q
http://tinyurl.com/ofngr4d

download free control software for evaluation at
http://tinyurl.com/n9b9ncr




Yeah the thought of that crossed my mind, I thought they make take
waaaaay to long to be made. It's 5" diameter x 1" tall.


If this runs unattended, and you only need a few or one at a
time this would not seem to be a problem, even if takes an
hour or more per part.

While the actual generation of the part may take some time,
there is little to no set-up, other than loading the program
and possibly switching filiment. With vacuum or hot
forming, the set-up/prep (heating the sheet) will be much
longer and tooling (which you will have to make) in addition
to being expensive and dedicated, will be occupy a lot of
space even when it is not being used.

Also any changes will require reworking the tooling, for
example, when the customer asks you "please make the OD 2.5
mm bigger, and while your at it, could you add some ribs for
additional support, and add our logo, and we need three
tomorrow."



All good points.

I was at an electronics shop a few weeks back. They had a range of thing
made by a 3d printer that they sell. I was impressed by the strength but
the finish was still a bit poor - clearly layered etc. I'm not sure how
the plastic would cope with full time sun and weather exposure either.

Vacuum forming or pressing with heat would be fine but for the lugs, which would come out sloppy and weak. Also, with VF the parts would have to be trimmed. Could the lugs be a separate part?

On 22-Sep-14 6:13 PM, robobass wrote:
Vacuum forming or pressing with heat would be fine but for the lugs, which would come out sloppy and weak. Also, with VF the parts would have to be trimmed. Could the lugs be a separate part?



Yep, I can use separate spacers for the bosses.

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