I want to make some stuff out of carbon fiber plate, about 0.06 or 0.09
inch thick (I'm not sure which). Like this stuff:

http://www.rockwestcomposites.com/products/402-612

I need to whack out rectangles of the stuff, make tidy rectangular holes
in them, and then make numerous drilled holes (16x, 0.1" diameter).

Is it even possible to work on this stuff with hand tools? Will a
hacksaw blade or coping saw even make a dent in it? (I don't mind if I
have to replace a lot of blades -- that's why they're made disposable,
after all).

Or should I be thinking in terms of figuring out how to clamp it into my
mill and cut it with solid carbide cutters?

How nasty is the dust?

Any other bits of wisdom are appreciated.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

If you don't mind a little burn mark it should laser cut real easy. No
first hand experience but I bet it dulls tooling even faster than
fiberglass.

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...

I want to make some stuff out of carbon fiber plate, about 0.06 or 0.09
inch thick (I'm not sure which). Like this stuff:

http://www.rockwestcomposites.com/products/402-612

I need to whack out rectangles of the stuff, make tidy rectangular holes
in them, and then make numerous drilled holes (16x, 0.1" diameter).

Is it even possible to work on this stuff with hand tools? Will a
hacksaw blade or coping saw even make a dent in it? (I don't mind if I
have to replace a lot of blades -- that's why they're made disposable,
after all).

Or should I be thinking in terms of figuring out how to clamp it into my
mill and cut it with solid carbide cutters?

How nasty is the dust?

Any other bits of wisdom are appreciated.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On Wednesday, May 21, 2014 7:38:45 PM UTC-7, Tim Wescott wrote:
I want to make some stuff out of carbon fiber plate, about 0.06 or 0.09

inch thick (I'm not sure which). Like this stuff:



http://www.rockwestcomposites.com/products/402-612



I need to whack out rectangles of the stuff, make tidy rectangular holes

in them, and then make numerous drilled holes (16x, 0.1" diameter).



Is it even possible to work on this stuff with hand tools? Will a

hacksaw blade or coping saw even make a dent in it? (I don't mind if I

have to replace a lot of blades -- that's why they're made disposable,

after all).



Or should I be thinking in terms of figuring out how to clamp it into my

mill and cut it with solid carbide cutters?



How nasty is the dust?



Any other bits of wisdom are appreciated.



--



Tim Wescott

Wescott Design Services

http://www.wescottdesign.com


You want diamond coated tooling not carbide.

Yes dust can be a problem.

On Wed, 21 May 2014 21:38:45 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

I want to make some stuff out of carbon fiber plate, about 0.06 or 0.09
inch thick (I'm not sure which). Like this stuff:

http://www.rockwestcomposites.com/products/402-612

I need to whack out rectangles of the stuff, make tidy rectangular holes
in them, and then make numerous drilled holes (16x, 0.1" diameter).

Is it even possible to work on this stuff with hand tools? Will a
hacksaw blade or coping saw even make a dent in it? (I don't mind if I
have to replace a lot of blades -- that's why they're made disposable,
after all).

Or should I be thinking in terms of figuring out how to clamp it into my
mill and cut it with solid carbide cutters?

How nasty is the dust?

Any other bits of wisdom are appreciated.

From reading the web site it is 670 gm cloth, which isn't tremendously
heavy cloth, which is already infused with epoxy.

Carbon, or glass for that matter, is not terribly hard to cut but
should be treated with some respect. When you cut it or drill it you
generate bits of carbon or glass that are like tiny needles and will
be all over the place. If you get them on your skin it will you itch
like crazy and if you breath them they lodge in your lungs and you
could, after some years, develop something similar to black lung or
silicosis.

If you watch guys in the business you will note that they all wear
long sleeve coveralls or similar clothing and when they are cutting or
machining the stuff they wear some sort of breathing filter.

Normal tools will cut the stuff but if carbon will wear the blades
fairly rapidly. Cutting squares I think I'd be tempted to use a 4"
hand grinder with a 1 mm cutoff wheel. They will cut carbon laminate
like cheese and if you had a long metal or wood guide you should be
able to slice strips off about as fast as you can walk.

I'd start out drilling using H.S. drills and see how that went. You
might want to switch to something harder, carbide maybe, if you have a
very large number of holes.

If you are doing a lot of machining in a small space. like a drill
press, it would facilitate clean ups if you were to position a shop
vacuum hose nozzle to suck up the swarf and dust as close to the work
as possible.

If you get a bunch of the dust on your bare skin you will, as I
mentioned, itch like crazy. A mentholated body talc will take a lot of
the itching out. Over here we have a mentholated "Prickly Heat" powder
that comes in a very distinctive can. You'll usually see a can in
almost every "fiberglass" guy's locker :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.
(invalid to gmail)

On Wed, 21 May 2014 23:21:09 -0400, Carl Ijames wrote:

(top posting fixed)

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...

I want to make some stuff out of carbon fiber plate, about 0.06 or 0.09
inch thick (I'm not sure which). Like this stuff:

http://www.rockwestcomposites.com/products/402-612

I need to whack out rectangles of the stuff, make tidy rectangular holes
in them, and then make numerous drilled holes (16x, 0.1" diameter).

Is it even possible to work on this stuff with hand tools? Will a
hacksaw blade or coping saw even make a dent in it? (I don't mind if I
have to replace a lot of blades -- that's why they're made disposable,
after all).

Or should I be thinking in terms of figuring out how to clamp it into my
mill and cut it with solid carbide cutters?

How nasty is the dust?

Any other bits of wisdom are appreciated.


If you don't mind a little burn mark it should laser cut real easy. No
first hand experience but I bet it dulls tooling even faster than
fiberglass.

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames


Sorry -- I'm thinking of how I might do this in my home shop, where the
highest-tech piece of equipment I have is a cheap milling machine. Laser
cutting means sending it out, and sending it out means that it gets done
right but for lots of $$.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
Sorry -- I'm thinking of how I might do this in my home shop, where
the
highest-tech piece of equipment I have is a cheap milling machine.
Laser
cutting means sending it out, and sending it out means that it gets
done
right but for lots of $$.

--
Tim Wescott

Those cheap blue-tube endmills that dull so quickly last longer at
carbon-steel cutting speed. If you have some you could try them at
little risk.

I buy and regrind used end mills to use on mystery metal, circuit
boards etc. Generally they are of good quality, but dull, and perhaps
undersized which isn't a problem for one-off jobs on a manual machine.
jsw

On Wed, 21 May 2014 21:38:45 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

I want to make some stuff out of carbon fiber plate, about 0.06 or 0.09
inch thick (I'm not sure which). Like this stuff:

http://www.rockwestcomposites.com/products/402-612

I need to whack out rectangles of the stuff, make tidy rectangular holes
in them, and then make numerous drilled holes (16x, 0.1" diameter).

Is it even possible to work on this stuff with hand tools? Will a
hacksaw blade or coping saw even make a dent in it? (I don't mind if I
have to replace a lot of blades -- that's why they're made disposable,
after all).

Or should I be thinking in terms of figuring out how to clamp it into my
mill and cut it with solid carbide cutters?

How nasty is the dust?

Any other bits of wisdom are appreciated.
================================

Let the group know how you make out

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...-fiber-249919/

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/compos...e-fighter.html




These may be of help. FWIW -- I would be setting down when
you check prices...

http://www.mmsonline.com/videos/end-...nd-coated-tool

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...,d.b2k&cad=rja
snip
For Carbon Fiber, Composites, Graphite & Green Ceramics
DIA230M 2 Flute Square-End CVD Diamond Coated 12
DIAB230M 2 Flute Ball-End CVD Diamond Coated 12
DIA430M 4 Flute Square-End CVD Diamond Coated 12
DIAB430M 4 Flute Ball-End CVD Diamond Coated 12
DIACR430M 4 Flute with Radius CVD Diamond Coated 13
/snip

http://www.secotools.com/en-US/Globa...mposite-range/

youtube demos/seminars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIaL_epxjoA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYVxcjTuMeg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg7cWlBXa70


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Thu, 22 May 2014 19:44:17 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Wed, 21 May 2014 21:38:45 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

I want to make some stuff out of carbon fiber plate, about 0.06 or 0.09
inch thick (I'm not sure which). Like this stuff:

http://www.rockwestcomposites.com/products/402-612

I need to whack out rectangles of the stuff, make tidy rectangular holes
in them, and then make numerous drilled holes (16x, 0.1" diameter).

Is it even possible to work on this stuff with hand tools? Will a
hacksaw blade or coping saw even make a dent in it? (I don't mind if I
have to replace a lot of blades -- that's why they're made disposable,
after all).

Or should I be thinking in terms of figuring out how to clamp it into my
mill and cut it with solid carbide cutters?

How nasty is the dust?

Any other bits of wisdom are appreciated.

lots of really helpful stuff snipped

If you get a bunch of the dust on your bare skin you will, as I
mentioned, itch like crazy. A mentholated body talc will take a lot of
the itching out. Over here we have a mentholated "Prickly Heat" powder
that comes in a very distinctive can. You'll usually see a can in almost
every "fiberglass" guy's locker :-)

Oh you wimps.

I grew up in a fiberglass shop (Wescott's Auto Restyling). Wear 100%
cotton clothing, take a good hot shower after your workday, and only
bother with the coveralls taped at all the seams crap if you're going to
spend the day grinding -- if you're doing some gluing, some grinding,
some bolting, etc., just wear shorts and a T-shirt.

But if you go and put a polyester shirt on within a week of having been
doing all that, be ready for Death by Itching.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On Thu, 22 May 2014 11:18:52 -0500, F. George McDuffee wrote:

On Wed, 21 May 2014 21:38:45 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

I want to make some stuff out of carbon fiber plate, about 0.06 or 0.09
inch thick (I'm not sure which). Like this stuff:

http://www.rockwestcomposites.com/products/402-612

I need to whack out rectangles of the stuff, make tidy rectangular holes
in them, and then make numerous drilled holes (16x, 0.1" diameter).

Is it even possible to work on this stuff with hand tools? Will a
hacksaw blade or coping saw even make a dent in it? (I don't mind if I
have to replace a lot of blades -- that's why they're made disposable,
after all).

Or should I be thinking in terms of figuring out how to clamp it into my
mill and cut it with solid carbide cutters?

How nasty is the dust?

Any other bits of wisdom are appreciated.
================================

Let the group know how you make out

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ling-strategy-
carbon-fiber-249919/

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/compos...etc/18483-cut-
carbon-fiber-joint-strike-fighter.html




These may be of help. FWIW -- I would be setting down when you check
prices...

http://www.mmsonline.com/videos/end-...cfrp-part-2---
diamond-coated-tool

http://www.google.com/url?
sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CEkQFjAA &url=http%3A%2F%
2Fwww.niagaracutter.com%2Fsolidcarbide%2Fmetric%
2Fnc_metric_catalog.pdf&ei=FR9-
U5HZKoKKqgbV8oKYDA&usg=AFQjCNHebjkBECRt_JyrWLTVJ64 Ie7vYcQ&sig2=1hihqrMEhcZdJY3eaLnVeg&bvm=bv.6722926 0,d.b2k&cad=rja
snip
For Carbon Fiber, Composites, Graphite & Green Ceramics DIA230M 2 Flute
Square-End CVD Diamond Coated 12 DIAB230M 2 Flute Ball-End CVD Diamond
Coated 12 DIA430M 4 Flute Square-End CVD Diamond Coated 12 DIAB430M 4
Flute Ball-End CVD Diamond Coated 12 DIACR430M 4 Flute with Radius CVD
Diamond Coated 13 /snip

http://www.secotools.com/en-US/Globa...Solid-carbide-
end-mills/JC800-composite-range/

youtube demos/seminars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIaL_epxjoA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYVxcjTuMeg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg7cWlBXa70

It sounds like diamond-coated may be better, but plain ol' carbide will
work -- "Standard carbide end mills will work most of the time."

Enco has some 1/8" diameter plain old carbide end mills for $8/pop.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On Thu, 22 May 2014 12:26:51 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:



It sounds like diamond-coated may be better, but plain ol' carbide will
work -- "Standard carbide end mills will work most of the time."

Enco has some 1/8" diameter plain old carbide end mills for $8/pop.

If TiAlN coated endmills are available at a small premium they may be
worth the money. The coating makes a huge difference in abrasive
metals, moly and tungsten, for example.

--
Ned Simmons

On Thu, 22 May 2014 14:00:21 -0400, Ned Simmons wrote:

On Thu, 22 May 2014 12:26:51 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:



It sounds like diamond-coated may be better, but plain ol' carbide will
work -- "Standard carbide end mills will work most of the time."

Enco has some 1/8" diameter plain old carbide end mills for $8/pop.

If TiAlN coated endmills are available at a small premium they may be
worth the money. The coating makes a huge difference in abrasive metals,
moly and tungsten, for example.

They are. This is Enco stuff, but it's for low-production one-off, so
who am I to complain?

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?P...PARTPG=INLMK32

$16 for a MT-3 collet for my Smithy, plus three end mills, I'm at less
than $40 before shipping. That's not too bad. Carbide drill bits are $6/
each from Enco, if I don't feel like sharpening lots of drills (the thing
needs 16 holes per piece, if I make half a dozen then I've drilled 96
holes).

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On 2014-05-22, John B wrote:
On Wed, 21 May 2014 21:38:45 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

[ ... cutting carbon fiber ... ]

If you get a bunch of the dust on your bare skin you will, as I
mentioned, itch like crazy. A mentholated body talc will take a lot of
the itching out. Over here we have a mentholated "Prickly Heat" powder
that comes in a very distinctive can. You'll usually see a can in
almost every "fiberglass" guy's locker :-)

Is that powder "Mexana" brand by any chance? I knew it in South
Texas in the 1950s, but had no idea that it was still made.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:38:45 PM UTC-4, Tim Wescott wrote:


Is it even possible to work on this stuff with hand tools? Will a

hacksaw blade or coping saw even make a dent in it? (I don't mind if I

have to replace a lot of blades -- that's why they're made disposable,

after all).


How nasty is the dust?



Any other bits of wisdom are appreciated.



--



Tim Wescott

Wescott Design Services

http://www.wescottdesign.com

A hacksaw or coping saw should work just fine and will not produce much dust.

Carbon fiber is not all that hard. The dust is mostly expoxy. But should not be a big problem.

Boron fiber is a different story. It produces splinters .

Dan

On Friday, May 23, 2014 9:11:16 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:38:45 PM UTC-4, Tim Wescott wrote:





Is it even possible to work on this stuff with hand tools? Will a



hacksaw blade or coping saw even make a dent in it? (I don't mind if I



have to replace a lot of blades -- that's why they're made disposable,



after all).





How nasty is the dust?







Any other bits of wisdom are appreciated.







--







Tim Wescott



Wescott Design Services



http://www.wescottdesign.com



A hacksaw or coping saw should work just fine and will not produce much dust.



Carbon fiber is not all that hard. The dust is mostly expoxy. But should not be a big problem.



Boron fiber is a different story. It produces splinters .



Dan

Carbide rod saw in hacksaw frame http://goo.gl/HBQRU6 I use these to cut hard stuff like ceramic tile. You could use water to keep the dust down.

Also, I wonder if you could score & snap this material like I do with fiberglass PC boards?

On 23 May 2014 05:00:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2014-05-22, John B wrote:
On Wed, 21 May 2014 21:38:45 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

[ ... cutting carbon fiber ... ]

If you get a bunch of the dust on your bare skin you will, as I
mentioned, itch like crazy. A mentholated body talc will take a lot of
the itching out. Over here we have a mentholated "Prickly Heat" powder
that comes in a very distinctive can. You'll usually see a can in
almost every "fiberglass" guy's locker :-)

Is that powder "Mexana" brand by any chance? I knew it in South
Texas in the 1950s, but had no idea that it was still made.

Enjoy,
DoN.

No. it is "Snake Brand Prickly Heat powder", manufactured by "The
British Dispensary" in Bangkok, Thailand. But it is likely the same
thing - talc and "refreshing natural oils", probably menthol.
http://www.britishdispensary.com/
--
Cheers,

John B.
(invalid to gmail)

On 2014-05-24, John B wrote:
On 23 May 2014 05:00:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2014-05-22, John B wrote:
On Wed, 21 May 2014 21:38:45 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

[ ... ]

Over here we have a mentholated "Prickly Heat" powder
that comes in a very distinctive can. You'll usually see a can in
almost every "fiberglass" guy's locker :-)

Is that powder "Mexana" brand by any chance? I knew it in South
Texas in the 1950s, but had no idea that it was still made.

[ ... ]

No. it is "Snake Brand Prickly Heat powder", manufactured by "The
British Dispensary" in Bangkok, Thailand. But it is likely the same
thing - talc and "refreshing natural oils", probably menthol.
http://www.britishdispensary.com/

O.K. IIRC, the Mexana had some Boric Acid as part of it way
back when. And in those less enlightened times, it was originally sold
as "Mexican Heat Rash Powder" before they changed to the "Mexana" name.

In any case, it sure made life more comfortable in the
summertime. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 26 May 2014 00:16:03 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2014-05-24, John B wrote:
On 23 May 2014 05:00:48 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2014-05-22, John B wrote:
On Wed, 21 May 2014 21:38:45 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

[ ... ]

Over here we have a mentholated "Prickly Heat" powder
that comes in a very distinctive can. You'll usually see a can in
almost every "fiberglass" guy's locker :-)

Is that powder "Mexana" brand by any chance? I knew it in South
Texas in the 1950s, but had no idea that it was still made.

[ ... ]

No. it is "Snake Brand Prickly Heat powder", manufactured by "The
British Dispensary" in Bangkok, Thailand. But it is likely the same
thing - talc and "refreshing natural oils", probably menthol.
http://www.britishdispensary.com/

O.K. IIRC, the Mexana had some Boric Acid as part of it way
back when. And in those less enlightened times, it was originally sold
as "Mexican Heat Rash Powder" before they changed to the "Mexana" name.

In any case, it sure made life more comfortable in the
summertime. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

Kind of like "Darkie" tooth paste that was common here. Made in Hong
Kong, if I remember, but now changed to "Darlie" tooth paste to avoid
any ill feelings :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.
(invalid to gmail)

On Friday, May 23, 2014 9:33:01 AM UTC-4, rangerssuck wrote:







A hacksaw or coping saw should work just fine and will not produce much dust.


Carbon fiber is not all that hard. The dust is mostly expoxy. But should not be a big problem.



Boron fiber is a different story. It produces splinters .




Carbide rod saw in hacksaw frame http://goo.gl/HBQRU6 I use these to cut hard stuff like ceramic tile. You could use water to keep the dust down.



Also, I wonder if you could score & snap this material like I do with fiberglass PC boards?

I expect it would work to score and snap. Being carbon fiber it would probably act the same as a thicker plate of fiberglass.

Dan

On Wednesday, May 21, 2014 7:38:45 PM UTC-7, Tim Wescott wrote:
I want to make some stuff out of carbon fiber plate, about 0.06 or 0.09 inch thick (I'm not sure which). Like this stuff: http://www.rockwestcomposites.com/products/402-612 I need to whack out rectangles of the stuff, make tidy rectangular holes in them, and then make numerous drilled holes (16x, 0.1" diameter). Is it even possible to work on this stuff with hand tools? Will a hacksaw blade or coping saw even make a dent in it? (I don't mind if I have to replace a lot of blades -- that's why they're made disposable, after all). Or should I be thinking in terms of figuring out how to clamp it into my mill and cut it with solid carbide cutters? How nasty is the dust? Any other bits of wisdom are appreciated. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com

Made some shapes out of rockwest 0.03 carbon sheet. The easest way to cut compled shapes is send it to a water jet company. Water jet into cabon does not like holes but once they are pierced it cuts well,