http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/20...-a-better-2014

not metal/machining related

On Fri, 20 Dec 2013 14:30:29 -0800 (PST), "Daring Dufas: A
hypocrite TeaBillie on welfare!"
wrote:

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/20...-a-better-2014

=====================

Wall Street is not Main Street, and a stock bubble is not
economic improvement but rather financial "speed" or
"crank."

extraneous added news groups removed from distro

On Sat, 21 Dec 2013 11:45:09 -0800, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

On 12/21/2013 11:29 AM, F. George McDumpster blabbered:
not metal/machining related

On Fri, 20 Dec 2013 14:30:29 -0800 (PST), "Daring Dufas: A
hypocrite TeaBillie on welfare!"
wrote:

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/20...-a-better-2014

=====================

Wall Street is not Main Street, and

Main street also is doing better, and Wall Street does well in
anticipation of Main Street doing well later on.

Not for you Jon, but the rational people in the NG
{extraneous added news groups removed from distro}

Up until the mid 70s you were/are more correct than
incorrect. The syllogism "When American companies do well,
America does well, and when America does well, Americans do
well" was on the whole accurate.

That was then and this is now.

(1) Because of the changes in, and ignoring of, FASB
accounting principles, and the failure to update corporate
accounting standards, e.g. the deliberate blocking of
expensing of stock options, and not forcing of SPIVs
[special purpose investment vehicles] back onto the
corporate ledgers (e.g. Enron), it is impossible to tell if
the American companies are doing well or were taking another
big hit off the financial bong before they file their 10ks
and write their annual reports. (Check the number of
financial restatements by Fortune 1000 companies by year.)

(2) De Facto if not De Jure, there are fewer and fewer
American companies, although the supranational corporations
may still be legally domiciled in the U.S. Increasingly,
nominally American companies are operationally only an
importing/marketing activity for goods/services produced
outside the country, the "profits" are never remitted (e.g.
transfer pricing), and no jobs/economic activity are
domestically created.

(3) Increasingly, improved corporate earning (see item 1
above) are not the result of real value added activity,
which increases the aggregate supply of goods and services,
but rather the result of "new and improved" financial
engineering/tax evasion/rent seeking/debt abrogation [e.g.
defined benefit pension plans] and are ersatz contributions
to the GDP, equivalent to counterfeit currency and clipped
coins.

Asset bubbles, an economy breaks, not makes...

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
not metal/machining related

On Fri, 20 Dec 2013 14:30:29 -0800 (PST), "Daring Dufas: A
hypocrite TeaBillie on welfare!"
wrote:

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/20...-a-better-2014

=====================

Wall Street is not Main Street, and a stock bubble is not
economic improvement but rather financial "speed" or
"crank."


In other words, "trickle down" economics is nothing but a hoax.

On Sat, 21 Dec 2013 22:08:05 -0800, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
.. .
not metal/machining related

On Fri, 20 Dec 2013 14:30:29 -0800 (PST), "Daring Dufas: A
hypocrite TeaBillie on welfare!"
wrote:

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/20...-a-better-2014

=====================

Wall Street is not Main Street, and a stock bubble is not
economic improvement but rather financial "speed" or
"crank."


In other words, "trickle down" economics is nothing but a hoax.

======================

That's what the historical record shows over the last 30
years, although I don't know if I would call it a hoax or a
popular delusion, very much like the witch mania of New
England, it sounds very plausible, and most people want to
believe.

Overt implementation can be traced back to about 1982/3 with
Reagan/Stockman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Stockman
and this is about the time median inflation adjusted per
capita income ceased to increase, and labor's share of GDP
began to fall.
http://www.businessinsider.com/what-...r-share-2013-9

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics
snip
The economist John Kenneth Galbraith noted that
"trickle-down economics" had been tried before in the United
States in the 1890s under the name "horse and sparrow
theory." He wrote, "Mr. David Stockman has said that
supply-side economics was merely a cover for the
trickle-down approach to economic policy—what an older and
less elegant generation called the horse-and-sparrow theory:
'If you feed the horse enough oats, some will pass through
to the road for the sparrows.'" Galbraith claimed that the
horse and sparrow theory was partly to blame for the Panic
of 1896.[14]
snip

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve
snip
For a reduction in tax rates to increase revenue, the
current tax rate would need to be higher than the revenue
maximizing rate.
snip
The New Palgrave Dictionary of Economics reports that a
comparison of academic studies yields a range of ==revenue
maximizing rates that centers around 70%.[2]== {emphasis
added UG} Economist Paul Pecorino presented a model in 1995
that predicted the peak of the Laffer curve occurred at tax
rates around 65%.[12] A 1996 study by Y. Hsing of the United
States economy between 1959 and 1991 placed the
revenue-maximizing average federal tax rate between 32.67%
and 35.21%.[13] A 1981 paper published in the Journal of
Political Economy presented a model integrating empirical
data that indicated that the point of maximum tax revenue in
Sweden in the 1970s would have been 70%.[14] A paper by
Trabandt and Uhlig of the NBER from 2009 presented a model
that predicted that the US and most European economies were
on the left of the Laffer curve (in other words, that
raising taxes would raise further revenue).[11]
snip
But this is just the opinion of a few of the world's top
economists -- what do they know?


There is no such thing as a free lunch, and if something
seems to good to be true -- it is.

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Dec 2013 22:08:05 -0800, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
. ..
not metal/machining related

On Fri, 20 Dec 2013 14:30:29 -0800 (PST), "Daring Dufas: A
hypocrite TeaBillie on welfare!"
wrote:

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/20...-a-better-2014

=====================

Wall Street is not Main Street, and a stock bubble is not
economic improvement but rather financial "speed" or
"crank."


In other words, "trickle down" economics is nothing but a hoax.

======================

That's what the historical record shows over the last 30
years, although I don't know if I would call it a hoax or a
popular delusion, very much like the witch mania of New
England, it sounds very plausible, and most people want to
believe.

Overt implementation can be traced back to about 1982/3 with
Reagan/Stockman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Stockman
and this is about the time median inflation adjusted per
capita income ceased to increase, and labor's share of GDP
began to fall.
http://www.businessinsider.com/what-...r-share-2013-9

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics
snip
The economist John Kenneth Galbraith noted that
"trickle-down economics" had been tried before in the United
States in the 1890s under the name "horse and sparrow
theory." He wrote, "Mr. David Stockman has said that
supply-side economics was merely a cover for the
trickle-down approach to economic policy-what an older and
less elegant generation called the horse-and-sparrow theory:
'If you feed the horse enough oats, some will pass through
to the road for the sparrows.'" Galbraith claimed that the
horse and sparrow theory was partly to blame for the Panic
of 1896.[14]
snip

"The money was all appropriated for the top in the hopes that it would
trickle down to the needy. Mr. Hoover didn't know that money trickled up.
Give it to the people at the bottom and the people at the top will have it
before night, anyhow. But it will at least have passed through the poor
fellow's hands."

--Will Rogers in the St. Petersburg Times - Nov 26, 1932


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve
snip
For a reduction in tax rates to increase revenue, the
current tax rate would need to be higher than the revenue
maximizing rate.
snip
The New Palgrave Dictionary of Economics reports that a
comparison of academic studies yields a range of ==revenue
maximizing rates that centers around 70%.[2]== {emphasis
added UG} Economist Paul Pecorino presented a model in 1995
that predicted the peak of the Laffer curve occurred at tax
rates around 65%.[12] A 1996 study by Y. Hsing of the United
States economy between 1959 and 1991 placed the
revenue-maximizing average federal tax rate between 32.67%
and 35.21%.[13] A 1981 paper published in the Journal of
Political Economy presented a model integrating empirical
data that indicated that the point of maximum tax revenue in
Sweden in the 1970s would have been 70%.[14] A paper by
Trabandt and Uhlig of the NBER from 2009 presented a model
that predicted that the US and most European economies were
on the left of the Laffer curve (in other words, that
raising taxes would raise further revenue).[11]

Government immediately puts every single penny back into the economy.

The rich do not.

But this is just the opinion of a few of the world's top
economists -- what do they know?


There is no such thing as a free lunch, and if something
seems to good to be true -- it is.


No matter how much some would like it to be otherwise.

Only if you are below the 1%ers .

...

Unless you are a 1%er .
.....

"Fred C. Dobbs" wrote in message
.. .
On 12/21/2013 10:08 PM, PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
not metal/machining related

On Fri, 20 Dec 2013 14:30:29 -0800 (PST), "Daring Dufas: A
hypocrite TeaBillie on welfare!"
wrote:

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/20...-a-better-2014

=====================

Wall Street is not Main Street, and a stock bubble is not
economic improvement but rather financial "speed" or
"crank."


In other words, "trickle down" economics

No such thing, neither preached nor in practice.

Of course, and the moon is made of cheese, too.

That's just an ignorant pejorative used by the left.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics


--
Any more lip out of you and I'll haul off and let you have it...if you
know what's good for you, you won't monkey around with Fred C. Dobbs.

plonk

distro pruned of extraneous newsgroups


On Sat, 21 Dec 2013 15:05:15 -0800, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

[followups vandalism by unethical ****bag looter repaired]

On 12/21/2013 12:39 PM, F. George McDumpster blabbered:
extraneous added news groups removed from distro

On Sat, 21 Dec 2013 11:45:09 -0800, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

On 12/21/2013 11:29 AM, F. George McDumpster blabbered:
not metal/machining related

On Fri, 20 Dec 2013 14:30:29 -0800 (PST), "Daring Dufas: A
hypocrite TeaBillie on welfare!"
wrote:

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/20...-a-better-2014

=====================

Wall Street is not Main Street, and

Main street also is doing better, and Wall Street does well in
anticipation of Main Street doing well later on.

Up until the mid 70s you were/are more correct than
incorrect. The syllogism "When American companies do well,
America does well, and when America does well, Americans do
well" was on the whole accurate.

That's not a syllogism, and it's not what I said. I said that Wall
Street does well when it expects Main Street to do well. That's true.
The stock market is a leading indicator, you senile idiot.

FYI/FWIW

http://www.sfgate.com/business/bloom...ls-5090855.php
--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Tue, 24 Dec 2013 12:48:28 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

distro pruned of extraneous newsgroups


On Sat, 21 Dec 2013 15:05:15 -0800, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

[followups vandalism by unethical ****bag looter repaired]

On 12/21/2013 12:39 PM, F. George McDumpster blabbered:
extraneous added news groups removed from distro

On Sat, 21 Dec 2013 11:45:09 -0800, Rudy Canoza
wrote:

On 12/21/2013 11:29 AM, F. George McDumpster blabbered:
not metal/machining related

On Fri, 20 Dec 2013 14:30:29 -0800 (PST), "Daring Dufas: A
hypocrite TeaBillie on welfare!"
wrote:

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/20...-a-better-2014

=====================

Wall Street is not Main Street, and

Main street also is doing better, and Wall Street does well in
anticipation of Main Street doing well later on.

Up until the mid 70s you were/are more correct than
incorrect. The syllogism "When American companies do well,
America does well, and when America does well, Americans do
well" was on the whole accurate.

That's not a syllogism, and it's not what I said. I said that Wall
Street does well when it expects Main Street to do well. That's true.
The stock market is a leading indicator, you senile idiot.

FYI/FWIW

http://www.sfgate.com/business/bloom...ls-5090855.php


When the numbers are all laid on paper in January...we are going to
see little if any increase in holiday spending...and I suspect...some
decline.

Frankly..few have any money TO spend. The wife and I have been
putting pocket change and turning in pop cans for 6 months to build a
kitty for presents for the grandchildren. And we have spent a total
of $100 or so on 3 grandchildren and their parents.

What did I get her? Nothing.
What did she get me? Nothing.

Did we get the roommates anything? Not a ****ing thing.

There simply isnt any money for it.

The yard sales and swap meets provided much of what we did spend
money on over the past 6 months for the kids. We chose to eat and
pay the power and water over spending much on anyone.

And chatting with our friends..they are in the exact same situation.

Fortunately..we are smart shoppers..so the kids and grand kids will
have a decent pile under their tree. But for us? Nada.
I told the wife in June what was going to happen and she agreed.

So Ive brought home a cheap geegaw now and then over the past year
and told her it was going to her as an early Christmas present..as we
wouldnt have one for outselves. She knew going in..what was going
on. The same as its been since 2008.

Gunner

--
"Owning a sailboat is like marrying a nymphomaniac. You don’t want to do that
but it is great if your best friend does. That way you get all the benefits without any of the upkeep"

---
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