I have been slowly retrofitting an old Westerfield thotgun, and in the
process I put to much strain on the trigger pivot pin and broke into 3
pieces. It looks like brass to me. The raw surfaces are very shiny like
brass, and have no hint of the pastiness I sometimes see in bronze. It
measures at about .090 as near as I can measure a twisted broken pin part
about an 1/8 inch long. I can't find any bronze that small, and the nearest
brass piece I can find from McMaster is 3/32 (0.09375). It looks like the
only answer I am going to have is to polish down a piece of 3/32 brass rod.
The trigger is a pretty integral part of this mechanism with a simple hook
that holds back the firing pin when you close the bolt, so I am trying to
decide which alloy is going to give the best life for this application. The
gun is over 60 years old, so whatever the original pin was it did a pretty
good job.

On Sat, 19 Oct 2013 09:50:39 -0700
"Bob La Londe" wrote:

I have been slowly retrofitting an old Westerfield thotgun, and in the
process I put to much strain on the trigger pivot pin and broke into 3
pieces. It looks like brass to me. The raw surfaces are very shiny like
brass, and have no hint of the pastiness I sometimes see in bronze. It
measures at about .090 as near as I can measure a twisted broken pin part
about an 1/8 inch long. I can't find any bronze that small, and the nearest
brass piece I can find from McMaster is 3/32 (0.09375). It looks like the
only answer I am going to have is to polish down a piece of 3/32 brass rod.
The trigger is a pretty integral part of this mechanism with a simple hook
that holds back the firing pin when you close the bolt, so I am trying to
decide which alloy is going to give the best life for this application. The
gun is over 60 years old, so whatever the original pin was it did a pretty
good job.

Maybe try looking for jackknife making parts? Like this:

http://www.knifekits.com/vcom/index....ath=60_107_112

Micromark has some small nails and similar stuff for model building too:

http://www.micromark.com/pins-and-nails.html

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
I have been slowly retrofitting an old Westerfield thotgun, and in the
process I put to much strain on the trigger pivot pin and broke into 3
pieces. It looks like brass to me. The raw surfaces are very shiny like
brass, and have no hint of the pastiness I sometimes see in bronze. It
measures at about .090 as near as I can measure a twisted broken pin part
about an 1/8 inch long. I can't find any bronze that small, and the
nearest brass piece I can find from McMaster is 3/32 (0.09375). It looks
like the only answer I am going to have is to polish down a piece of 3/32
brass rod. The trigger is a pretty integral part of this mechanism with a
simple hook that holds back the firing pin when you close the bolt, so I am
trying to decide which alloy is going to give the best life for this
application. The gun is over 60 years old, so whatever the original pin
was it did a pretty good job.




Original pin would not have been bronze. It would have been steel.
Most likely a rebadged Mossberg. My books list a couple of trigger pins in
that size range .095 and .093.

Paul K. Dickman

On Sat, 19 Oct 2013 09:50:39 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

I have been slowly retrofitting an old Westerfield thotgun, and in the
process I put to much strain on the trigger pivot pin and broke into 3
pieces. It looks like brass to me. The raw surfaces are very shiny like
brass, and have no hint of the pastiness I sometimes see in bronze. It
measures at about .090 as near as I can measure a twisted broken pin part
about an 1/8 inch long. I can't find any bronze that small, and the nearest
brass piece I can find from McMaster is 3/32 (0.09375). It looks like the
only answer I am going to have is to polish down a piece of 3/32 brass rod.
The trigger is a pretty integral part of this mechanism with a simple hook
that holds back the firing pin when you close the bolt, so I am trying to
decide which alloy is going to give the best life for this application. The
gun is over 60 years old, so whatever the original pin was it did a pretty
good job.


How bout using a piece of brazing rod? And yes..it may have been
brass. Its a very low stress part. Id personally use bronze or even
Stainless steel and then pass the arm down to my great great grand
children.

Gunner

--
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that "special" is a polite euphemism for;
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"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Oct 2013 09:50:39 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

I have been slowly retrofitting an old Westerfield thotgun, and in the
process I put to much strain on the trigger pivot pin and broke into 3
pieces. It looks like brass to me. The raw surfaces are very shiny like
brass, and have no hint of the pastiness I sometimes see in bronze. It
measures at about .090 as near as I can measure a twisted broken pin part
about an 1/8 inch long. I can't find any bronze that small, and the
nearest
brass piece I can find from McMaster is 3/32 (0.09375). It looks like the
only answer I am going to have is to polish down a piece of 3/32 brass
rod.
The trigger is a pretty integral part of this mechanism with a simple hook
that holds back the firing pin when you close the bolt, so I am trying to
decide which alloy is going to give the best life for this application.
The
gun is over 60 years old, so whatever the original pin was it did a pretty
good job.


How bout using a piece of brazing rod? And yes..it may have been
brass. Its a very low stress part. Id personally use bronze or even
Stainless steel and then pass the arm down to my great great grand
children.

Gunner

I looked on the shelf and I had both 0.090 carbon spring wire and stainless
spring wire. The stainless said, 0.093 on the tube, but when I measured it
I got 0.090-0.091. A short piece of stainless works just perfect. Well
longer than the original piece so its easier to work with. I may go out and
shoot it tomorrow. This is not the first thing I've had to fix on this gun.
It seems like every time I fixed something, something else broke. I've got
a complete spare bolt assembly on the way now just in case. LOL.

"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in news:l3vbni$it9$1
@dont-email.me:

This is not the first thing I've had to fix on this gun.


But now it's not 'original', with that steel pin in there. Put a brass pin
back in, and stop ****ing and moaning about haveing to turn down a piece of
stock. This is a metalworking group, after all.

BTW... how the heck did you put enough strain on the trigger to completely
shear a piece of .090 brass?


LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in news:l3vbni$it9$1
@dont-email.me:

This is not the first thing I've had to fix on this gun.


But now it's not 'original', with that steel pin in there. Put a brass
pin
back in, and stop ****ing and moaning about haveing to turn down a piece
of
stock. This is a metalworking group, after all.

LOL. I'll put a brass pin back in there if I ever find an original magazine
for it. The original magazine had a retention clip on the magazine. The
later magazines used a piece of spring steel mounted on the magazine guide
on the gun to lock the magazine in place. Numrich sells a kit with the
spring plate and the newer magazine. I bought one. It took quite a bit of
doctoring to get it to seat right, lockup tight, and feed properly. It
didn't even pretend to be right out of the package. It wouldn't even fit in
the hole in the stock.


BTW... how the heck did you put enough strain on the trigger to completely
shear a piece of .090 brass?

The trigger doesn't just release the firing pin. It also stops the bolt
from falling out. I imagine 60 or 70 years of having that bolt slammed back
by frantic bird hunters (myself included) took its toll. As near as I can
tell this gun was made before WWII. Its not the oldest I have in my
collection, but it's the first gun I ever made a wingshot with, and it's the
first gun my dad ever let me take off on my own to go hunting. It was a
piece of crap even back then. No magazine, sticky chamber, poor ejection,
no choke... and I still loved using it. It was better than the shotguns my
buddies didn't have. I've got just about everything fixed except the sticky
chamber. I have two things to try there, before I consider trying to remove
the barrel to trim and rechamber it. I'm not sure I can remove the barrel
without damaging it so I hope my other ideas work. I can see through the
stock mounting bolt hole in the frame and the threads are buggered in there
like somebody drove a machine screw in there that was too long at one time.

My dad bought the gun from somebody who needed the cash around 1969 or 1970,
so there is not telling how much abuse it suffered before we got it. We
never had the original magazine. I just used it as a hand fed single shot
bolt action. I'm curious to see how it shoots with an actual choke tube
mounted on it. LOL. I would never even attempt a shot more than about 20
yards with it before. The shot just spread out to quick shooting out of
that open cylinder bore. Atleast with the cheap bird loads I could afford
back then.

Interestingly it looks a lot like a lighter version of some of the heavy
bolt action rifles.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in news:l3vbni$it9$1
@dont-email.me:

This is not the first thing I've had to fix on this gun.


But now it's not 'original', with that steel pin in there. Put a brass
pin
back in, and stop ****ing and moaning about haveing to turn down a piece
of
stock. This is a metalworking group, after all.

LOL. I'll put a brass pin back in there if I ever find an original
magazine for it. The original magazine had a retention clip on the
magazine. The later magazines used a piece of spring steel mounted on the
magazine guide on the gun to lock the magazine in place. Numrich sells a
kit with the spring plate and the newer magazine. I bought one. It took
quite a bit of doctoring to get it to seat right, lockup tight, and feed
properly. It didn't even pretend to be right out of the package. It
wouldn't even fit in the hole in the stock.


BTW... how the heck did you put enough strain on the trigger to
completely
shear a piece of .090 brass?

The trigger doesn't just release the firing pin. It also stops the bolt
from falling out. I imagine 60 or 70 years of having that bolt slammed
back by frantic bird hunters (myself included) took its toll. As near as
I can tell this gun was made before WWII. Its not the oldest I have in my
collection, but it's the first gun I ever made a wingshot with, and it's
the first gun my dad ever let me take off on my own to go hunting. It was
a piece of crap even back then. No magazine, sticky chamber, poor
ejection, no choke... and I still loved using it. It was better than the
shotguns my buddies didn't have. I've got just about everything fixed
except the sticky chamber. I have two things to try there, before I
consider trying to remove the barrel to trim and rechamber it. I'm not
sure I can remove the barrel without damaging it so I hope my other ideas
work. I can see through the stock mounting bolt hole in the frame and the
threads are buggered in there like somebody drove a machine screw in there
that was too long at one time.

My dad bought the gun from somebody who needed the cash around 1969 or
1970, so there is not telling how much abuse it suffered before we got it.
We never had the original magazine. I just used it as a hand fed single
shot bolt action. I'm curious to see how it shoots with an actual choke
tube mounted on it. LOL. I would never even attempt a shot more than
about 20 yards with it before. The shot just spread out to quick shooting
out of that open cylinder bore. Atleast with the cheap bird loads I could
afford back then.

Interestingly it looks a lot like a lighter version of some of the heavy
bolt action rifles.


P.S. The smallest piece of brass stock I could locate in the shop was 3/4".
I just have heartburn about turning that much metal into chips.

"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in
:

P.S. The smallest piece of brass stock I could locate in the shop was
3/4". I just have heartburn about turning that much metal into chips.

So go to the hardware store and buy a #10 brass screw !

Lloyd

On Sat, 19 Oct 2013 19:38:20 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in news:l3vbni$it9$1
@dont-email.me:

This is not the first thing I've had to fix on this gun.


But now it's not 'original', with that steel pin in there. Put a brass
pin
back in, and stop ****ing and moaning about haveing to turn down a piece
of
stock. This is a metalworking group, after all.

LOL. I'll put a brass pin back in there if I ever find an original
magazine for it. The original magazine had a retention clip on the
magazine. The later magazines used a piece of spring steel mounted on the
magazine guide on the gun to lock the magazine in place. Numrich sells a
kit with the spring plate and the newer magazine. I bought one. It took
quite a bit of doctoring to get it to seat right, lockup tight, and feed
properly. It didn't even pretend to be right out of the package. It
wouldn't even fit in the hole in the stock.


BTW... how the heck did you put enough strain on the trigger to
completely
shear a piece of .090 brass?

The trigger doesn't just release the firing pin. It also stops the bolt
from falling out. I imagine 60 or 70 years of having that bolt slammed
back by frantic bird hunters (myself included) took its toll. As near as
I can tell this gun was made before WWII. Its not the oldest I have in my
collection, but it's the first gun I ever made a wingshot with, and it's
the first gun my dad ever let me take off on my own to go hunting. It was
a piece of crap even back then. No magazine, sticky chamber, poor
ejection, no choke... and I still loved using it. It was better than the
shotguns my buddies didn't have. I've got just about everything fixed
except the sticky chamber. I have two things to try there, before I
consider trying to remove the barrel to trim and rechamber it. I'm not
sure I can remove the barrel without damaging it so I hope my other ideas
work. I can see through the stock mounting bolt hole in the frame and the
threads are buggered in there like somebody drove a machine screw in there
that was too long at one time.

My dad bought the gun from somebody who needed the cash around 1969 or
1970, so there is not telling how much abuse it suffered before we got it.
We never had the original magazine. I just used it as a hand fed single
shot bolt action. I'm curious to see how it shoots with an actual choke
tube mounted on it. LOL. I would never even attempt a shot more than
about 20 yards with it before. The shot just spread out to quick shooting
out of that open cylinder bore. Atleast with the cheap bird loads I could
afford back then.

Interestingly it looks a lot like a lighter version of some of the heavy
bolt action rifles.


P.S. The smallest piece of brass stock I could locate in the shop was 3/4".
I just have heartburn about turning that much metal into chips.

???? Odd..Im just a hobbiest and Ive got 40-50 lbs of brass laying out
in the bins





--
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that "special" is a polite euphemism for;
*window licker on the short bus*"

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On Sat, 19 Oct 2013 21:41:23 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in
:

P.S. The smallest piece of brass stock I could locate in the shop was
3/4". I just have heartburn about turning that much metal into chips.

So go to the hardware store and buy a #10 brass screw !

Lloyd

Big Gold Star!!!


--
"Their mommies tell them they're special, Liberals just don't understand
that "special" is a polite euphemism for;
*window licker on the short bus*"

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On 10/19/2013 11:10 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:


???? Odd..Im just a hobbiest and Ive got 40-50 lbs of brass laying out
in the bins



Not counting hundreds of pounds of empty cases!

On 10/19/2013 9:30 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

I have been slowly retrofitting an old Westerfield thotgun, and in the
process I put to much strain on the trigger pivot pin and broke into 3

with. I may go out and shoot it tomorrow. This is not the first thing
I've had to fix on this gun. It seems like every time I fixed something,
something else broke. I've got a complete spare bolt assembly on the
way now just in case. LOL.

Glad someone out there can repair old equipment.
Cell phones, for example. I took my old one in for
repair, and find out that they don't permit their
techs "not allowed" to do any repairs. Just pitch in
the trash, and sell em a new one.


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 05:27:33 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 10/19/2013 9:30 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

I have been slowly retrofitting an old Westerfield thotgun, and in the
process I put to much strain on the trigger pivot pin and broke into 3

with. I may go out and shoot it tomorrow. This is not the first thing
I've had to fix on this gun. It seems like every time I fixed something,
something else broke. I've got a complete spare bolt assembly on the
way now just in case. LOL.

Glad someone out there can repair old equipment.
Cell phones, for example. I took my old one in for
repair, and find out that they don't permit their
techs "not allowed" to do any repairs. Just pitch in
the trash, and sell em a new one.


.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Funny. I've had both Nokia and Samsung hand phones repaired by the
manufacturer's representative. In the Nokia case they had to order the
part from wherever, took an extra week. Both repaired free of charge.

Maybe, being third world residents we get ours repaired while
residents of the great throwaway culture get to buy new ones :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...

It was a piece of crap even back then. ...I can see through the
stock mounting bolt hole in the frame and the threads are buggered
in there like somebody drove a machine screw in there that was too
long at one time.


Your description strongly suggests that the brass pin isn't original.
Perhaps it was hacked in by someone who lacked the lathe to turn a
proper steel pin.

On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 05:27:33 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 10/19/2013 9:30 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

I have been slowly retrofitting an old Westerfield thotgun, and in the
process I put to much strain on the trigger pivot pin and broke into 3

with. I may go out and shoot it tomorrow. This is not the first thing
I've had to fix on this gun. It seems like every time I fixed something,
something else broke. I've got a complete spare bolt assembly on the
way now just in case. LOL.

Glad someone out there can repair old equipment.
Cell phones, for example. I took my old one in for
repair, and find out that they don't permit their
techs "not allowed" to do any repairs. Just pitch in
the trash, and sell em a new one.

Ever look at the guts of the average cell phone? Those things are
largely NOT repairable. Between heavy conformal coatings and SMD
machine laid out boards..they were never designed with repair in mind.

They are cranked out by the millions by machines that do the assembly
and dip soldered and when they go bad...(except for a very few
assembly points like screen cabling)..they are designed to be tossed.




.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

--
"Their mommies tell them they're special, Liberals just don't understand
that "special" is a polite euphemism for;
*window licker on the short bus*"

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"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...

Ever look at the guts of the average cell phone? Those things are
largely NOT repairable. Between heavy conformal coatings and SMD
machine laid out boards..they were never designed with repair in
mind.

They are cranked out by the millions by machines that do the
assembly
and dip soldered and when they go bad...(except for a very few
assembly points like screen cabling)..they are designed to be
tossed.

That is substantially true even for their hand-built prototypes. I had
to grind narrow, fragile tips on cutters to snip the individual leads
of SMT ICs so I could remove them without damaging the circuit board
pads. Hot air rework tools won't do everything.
jsw

"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in news:l41044$1v9$1
@dont-email.me:

That is substantially true even for their hand-built prototypes. I had
to grind narrow, fragile tips on cutters to snip the individual leads
of SMT ICs so I could remove them without damaging the circuit board
pads. Hot air rework tools won't do everything.

But they aren't "dip soldered". They're infrared re-flow soldered, using
flux-bearing solder paste both to provide the solder and to 'glue' the
chips in place until they go under the light. Surface tension of the
solder assures each chip self-centers on its pads as the solder melts.

Lloyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in
news:l41044$1v9$1
@dont-email.me:

That is substantially true even for their hand-built prototypes. I
had
to grind narrow, fragile tips on cutters to snip the individual
leads
of SMT ICs so I could remove them without damaging the circuit
board
pads. Hot air rework tools won't do everything.

But they aren't "dip soldered". They're infrared re-flow soldered,
using
flux-bearing solder paste both to provide the solder and to 'glue'
the
chips in place until they go under the light. Surface tension of
the
solder assures each chip self-centers on its pads as the solder
melts.

Lloyd

That's true, but irrelevant to the bench repair process.
jsw

On Saturday, October 19, 2013 7:41:23 PM UTC-7, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in

:



P.S. The smallest piece of brass stock I could locate in the shop was

3/4". I just have heartburn about turning that much metal into chips.



So go to the hardware store and buy a #10 brass screw !



Lloyd

That is a good suggest. I feel silly for not thinking of it. A while back a buddy of mine gave me a vise. In order to take the vise I had to take the table it was attached to. In order to take the table I had to take the boxes that were under it. In one of the boxes was a huge gallon jar of brass screws and bolts. I am sure there is something in there I could have used.

I do admit to some trepidation in turning a pin that small. Most brass I have turned seems to like a pretty decent DOC, and a piece that small will deflect a lot. Maybe a file or a live tool with a grinding point would do it.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...

I do admit to some trepidation in turning a pin that small.
Most brass I have turned seems to like a pretty decent DOC,
and a piece that small will deflect a lot.
Maybe a file or a live tool with a grinding point would do it.

Recently I made some brass electrical contact pins 0.078" (2mm) in
diameter. The best result was from turning to final diameter (from
0.093") with a series of short cuts very close to the collet.

On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 10:19:51 -0700 (PDT), Bob La Londe
wrote:

On Saturday, October 19, 2013 7:41:23 PM UTC-7, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in

:



P.S. The smallest piece of brass stock I could locate in the shop was

3/4". I just have heartburn about turning that much metal into chips.



So go to the hardware store and buy a #10 brass screw !



Lloyd

That is a good suggest. I feel silly for not thinking of it. A while back a buddy of mine gave me a vise. In order to take the vise I had to take the table it was attached to. In order to take the table I had to take the boxes that were under it. In one of the boxes was a huge gallon jar of brass screws and bolts. I am sure there is something in there I could have used.

I do admit to some trepidation in turning a pin that small. Most brass I have turned seems to like a pretty decent DOC, and a piece that small will deflect a lot. Maybe a file or a live tool with a grinding point would do it.

It cuts fine with a nice sharp postitive rake HSS tool

Gunner

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Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

It cuts fine with a nice sharp postitive rake HSS tool

For 360, I get better cuts with zero rake.

Lloyd