On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 20:02:04 +0700, Miguel wrote:


Save a million lives? Yes, I remember that bit, it was utter bull****.
Japan at the time of the surrender was flat on their ass. All the talk
of fighting in the street... the people couldn't even find enough to
eat.
How do I know? Well my uncle was generous enough to pay my way over
for a three year visit.

What year did you visit? You obviously werent there in the 1940s

http://www.theabsurdreport.com/2007/...f-japan-plans/

1945 Invasion of Japan Plans

The Bear on Jan 29 2007 at 9:26 am | Filed under: Uncategorized

Subject: 1945 Invasion of Japan Plans – An Exceptional Part of
History Revealed

Deep in the recesses of the National Archives in Washington, D.C.,
hidden for nearly four decades lie thousands of pages of yellowing and
dusty documents stamped “Top Secret”. These documents, now
declassified, are the plans for Operation Downfall, the invasion of
Japan during World War II. Only a few Americans in 1945 were aware of
the elaborate plans that had been prepared for the Allied Invasion of
the Japanese home islands. Even fewer today are aware of the defenses
the Japanese had prepared to counter the invasion had it been
launched.

Operation Downfall was finalized during the spring and summer of 1945.
It called for two massive military undertakings to be carried out in
succession and aimed at the heart of the Japanese Empire.

In the first invasion – code named “Operation Olympic”- American
combat troops would land on Japan by amphibious assault during the
early morning hours of November 1, 1945 – 61 years ago. Fourteen
combat divisions of soldiers and Marines would land on heavily
fortified and defended Kyushu, the southernmost of the Japanese home
islands, after an unprecedented naval and aerial bombardment.

The second invasion on March 1, 1946 – code named “Operation Coronet”-
would send at least 22 divisions against 1 million Japanese defenders
on the main island of Honshu and the Tokyo Plain. It’s goal: the
unconditional surrender of Japan. With the exception of a part of the
British Pacific Fleet, Operation Downfall was to be a strictly
American operation. It called for using the entire Marine Corps, the
entire Pacific Navy, elements of the 7th Army Air Force, the 8 Air
Force (recently redeployed from Europe), 10th Air Force and the
American Far Eastern Air Force. More than 1.5 million combat soldiers,
with 3 million more in support or more than 40% of all servicemen
still in uniform in 1945 – would be directly involved in the two
amphibious assaults. Casualties were expected to be extremely heavy.

Admiral William Leahy estimated that there would be more than 250,000
Americans killed or wounded on Kyushu alone. General Charles
Willoughby, chief of intelligence for General Douglas MacArthur, the
Supreme Commander of the Southwest Pacific, estimated American
casualties would be one million men by the Fall of 1946. Willoughby’s
own intelligence staff considered this to be a conservative estimate.

During the summer of 1945, America had little time to prepare for such
an endeavor, but top military leaders were in almost unanimous
agreement that an invasion was necessary. While naval blockade and
strategic bombing of Japan was considered to be useful, General
MacArthur, for instance, did not believe a blockade would bring about
an unconditional surrender. The advocates for invasion agreed that
while a naval blockade chokes, it does not kill; and though strategic
bombing might destroy cities, it leaves whole armies intact.

So on May 25, 1945, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, after extensive
deliberation, issued to General MacArthur, Admiral Chester Nimitz, and
Army Air Force General Henry Arnold, the top secret directive to
proceed with the invasion of Kyushu. The target date was after the
typhoon season.

President Truman approved the plans for the invasions July 24. Two
days later, the United Nations issued the Potsdam Proclamation, which
called upon Japan to surrender unconditionally or face total
destruction.

Three days later, the Japanese governmental news agency broadcast to
the world that Japan would ignore the proclamation and would refuse to
surrender. During this same period it was learned — via monitoring
Japanese radio broadcasts — that Japan had closed all schools and
mobilized its school children, was arming its civilian population and
was fortifying caves and building underground defenses.

Operation Olympic called for a four pronged assault on Kyushu. Its
purpose was to seize and control the southern one-third of that island
and establish naval and air bases, to tighten the naval blockade of
the home islands, to destroy units of the main Japanese army and to
support the later invasion of the Tokyo Plain. The preliminary
invasion would began October 27 when the 40th Infantry Division would
land on a series of small islands west and southwest of Kyushu. At the
same time, the 158th Regimental Combat Team would invade and occupy a
small island 28 miles south of Kyushu. On these islands, seaplane
bases would be established and radar would be set up to provide
advance air warning for the invasion fleet, to serve as fighter
direction centers for the carrier-based aircraft and to provide an
emergency anchorage for the invasion fleet, should things not go well
on the day of the invasion.

As the invasion grew imminent, the massive firepower of the Navy – the
Third and Fifth Fleets — would approach Japan. The Third Fleet, under
Admiral William “Bull” Halsey, with its big guns and naval aircraft,
would provide strategic support for the operation against Honshu and
Hokkaido. Halsey’s fleet would be composed of battleships, heavy
cruisers, destroyers, dozens of support ships and three fast carrier
task groups. From these carriers, hundreds of Navy fighters, dive
bombers and torpedo planes would hit targets all over the island of
Honshu. The 3,000 ship Fifth Fleet, under Admiral Raymond Spruance,
would carry the invasion troops.

Several days before the invasion, the battleships, heavy cruisers and
destroyers would pour thousands of tons of high explosives into the
target areas. They would not cease the bombardment until after the
land forces had been launched. During the early morning hours of
November 1, the invasion would begin. Thousands of soldiers and
Marines would pour ashore on beaches all along the eastern,
southeastern, southern and western coasts of Kyushu. Waves of
Helldivers, Dauntless dive bombers, Avengers, Corsairs, and Hellcats
from 66 aircraft carriers would bomb, rocket and strafe enemy
defenses, gun emplacements and troop concentrations along the beaches.

The Eastern Assault Force consisting of the 25th, 33rd, and 41st
Infantry Divisions, would land near Miyaski, at beaches called Austin,
Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Chrysler, and Ford, and move inland to
attempt to capture the city and its nearby airfield. The Southern
Assault Force, consisting of the 1st Cavalry Division, the 43rd
Division and America Division would land inside Ariake Bay at beaches
labeled
DeSoto, Dusenberg, Essex, Ford, and Franklin and attempt to capture
Shibushi and the city of Kanoya and its airfield.

On the western shore of Kyushu, at beaches Pontiac, Reo, Rolls Royce,
Saxon, Star, Studebaker, Stutz, Winston and Zephyr, the V Amphibious
Corps would land the 2nd, 3rd, and 5th Marine Divisions, sending half
of its force inland to Sendai and the other half to the port city of
Kagoshima.

On November 4, the Reserve Force, consisting of the 81st and 98th
Infantry Divisions and the 11th Airborne Division, after feigning an
attack on the island of Shikoku, would be landed — if not needed
elsewhere — near Kaimondake, near the southernmost tip of Kagoshima
Bay, at the beaches designated Locomobile, Lincoln, LaSalle,
Hupmobile, Moon, Mercedes, Maxwell, Overland, Oldsmobile, Packard, and
Plymouth.

Olympic was not just a plan for invasion, but for conquest and
occupation as well. It was expected to take four months to achieve its
objective, with the three fresh American divisions per month to be
landed in support of that operation if needed. If all went well with
Olympic, Coronet would be launched March 1,1946. Coronet would be
twice the size of Olympic, with as many as 28 divisions landing on
Honshu.

All along the coast east of Tokyo, the American 1st Army would land
the 5th, 7th, 27th, 44th, 86th, and 96th Infantry Divisions, along
with the 4th and 6th Marine Divisions. At Sagami Bay, just south of
Tokyo, the entire 8th and 10th Armies would strike north and east to
clear the long western shore of Tokyo Bay and attempt to go as far as
Yokohama. The assault troops landing south of Tokyo would be the 4th,
6th, 8th, 24th, 31st, 37th, 38th, and 8th Infantry Divisions, along
with the 13th and
20th Armored Divisions.

Following the initial assault, eight more divisions – the 2nd, 28th,
35th, 91st, 95th, 97th, and 104th Infantry Divisions and the 11th
Airborne Division — would be landed. If additional troops were needed,
as expected, other divisions redeployed from Europe and undergoing
training in the United States would be shipped to Japan in what was
hoped to be the final push.

Captured Japanese documents and post war interrogations of Japanese
military leaders disclose that information concerning the number of
Japanese planes available for the defense of the home islands was
dangerously in error. During the sea battle at Okinawa alone, Japanese
Kamikaze aircraft sank 32 Allied ships and damaged more than 400
others. But during the summer of 1945, American top brass concluded
that the Japanese had spent their air force since American bombers and
fighters daily flew unmolested over Japan.

What the military leaders did not know was that by the end of July the
Japanese had been saving all aircraft, fuel, and pilots in reserve,
and had been feverishly building new planes for the decisive battle
for their homeland. As part of Ketsu-Go, the name for the plan to
defend Japan — the Japanese were building 20 suicide takeoff strips in
southern Kyushu with underground hangars. They also had 35 camouflaged
airfields and nine seaplane bases.

On the night before the expected invasion, 50 Japanese seaplane
bombers, 100 former carrier aircraft and 50 land based army planes
were to be launched in a suicide attack on the fleet. The Japanese had
58 more airfields in Korea, western Honshu and Shikoku, which also
were to be used for massive suicide attacks.

Allied intelligence had established that the Japanese had no more than
2,500 aircraft of which they guessed 300 would be deployed in suicide
attacks. In August 1945, however, unknown to Allied intelligence, the
Japanese still had 5,651 army and 7,074 navy aircraft, for a total of
12,725 planes of all types. Every village had some type of aircraft
manufacturing activity. Hidden in mines, railway tunnels, under
viaducts and in basements of department stores, work was being done to
construct new planes.

Additionally, the Japanese were building newer and more effective
models of the Okka, a rocket propelled bomb much like the German V-1,
but flown by a suicide pilot. When the invasion became imminent,
Ketsu-Go called for a fourfold aerial plan of attack to destroy up to
800 Allied ships. While Allied ships were approaching Japan, but still
in the open seas, an initial force of 2,000 army and navy fighters
were to fight to the death to control the skies over Kyushu. A second
force of 330 navy
combat pilots were to attack the main body of the task force to keep
it from using its fire support and air cover to protect the troop
carrying transports.While these two forces were engaged, a third force
of 825 suicide planes was to hit the American transports.

As the invasion convoys approached their anchorages, another 2,000
suicide planes were to be launched in waves of 200 to 300 , to be used
in hour by hour attacks. By mid-morning of the first day of the
invasion, most of the American land-based aircraft would be forced to
return to their bases, leaving the defense against the suicide planes
to the carrier pilots and the shipboard gunners.

Carrier pilots crippled by fatigue would have to land time and time
again to rearm and refuel. Guns would malfunction from the heat of
continuous firing and ammunition would become scarce. Gun crews would
be exhausted by nightfall, but still the waves of kamikaze would
continue. With the fleet hovering off the beaches, all remaining
Japanese aircraft would be committed to nonstop suicide attacks, which
the Japanese hoped could be sustained for 10 days. The Japanese
planned to coordinate their air strikes with attacks from the 40
remaining submarines from the Imperial Navy — some armed with Long
Lance torpedoes with a range of 20 miles — when the invasion fleet was
180
miles off Kyus hu.

The Imperial Navy had 23 destroyers and two cruisers which were
operational. These ships were to be used to counterattack the American
invasion. A number of the destroyers were to be beached at the last
minute to be used as anti-invasion gun platforms. Once offshore, the
invasion fleet would be forced to defend not only against the attacks
from the air, but would also be confronted with suicide attacks from
sea. Japan had established a suicide naval attack unit of midget
submarines, human torpedoes and exploding motorboats.

The goal of the Japanese was to shatter the invasion before the
landing. The Japanese were convinced the Americans would back off or
become so demoralized that they would then accept a
less-than-unconditional surrender and a more honorable and face-saving
end for the Japanese. But as horrible as the battle of Japan would be
off the beaches, it would be on Japanese soil that the American forces
would face the most rugged and fanatical defense encountered during
the war.

Throughout the island-hopping Pacific campaign, Allied troops had
always out numbered the Japanese by 2 to 1 and sometimes 3 to 1. In
Japan it would be different. By virtue of a combination of cunning,
guesswork, and brilliant military reasoning, a number of Japan’s top
military leaders were able to deduce, not only when, but where, the
United States would land its first invasion forces.

Facing the 14 American divisions landing at Kyushu would be 14
Japanese divisions, 7 independent mixed brigades, 3 tank brigades and
thousands of naval troops. On Kyushu the odds would be 3 to 2 in favor
of the Japanese, with 790,000 enemy defenders against 550,000
Americans. This time the bulk of the Japanese defenders would not be
the poorly trained and ill-equipped labor battalions that the
Americans had faced in the earlier campaigns.

The Japanese defenders would be the hard core of the home army. These
troops were well-fed and well equipped. They were familiar with the
terrain, had stockpiles of arms and ammunition, and had developed an
effective system of transportation and supply almost invisible from
the air. Many of these Japanese troops were the elite of the army, and
they were swollen with a fanatical fighting spirit. Japan’s network of
beach defenses consisted of offshore mines, thousands of suicide scuba
divers
attacking landing craft, and mines planted on the beaches. Coming
ashore, the American Eastern amphibious assault forces at Miyazaki
would face three Japanese divisions, and two others poised for counter
attack. Awaiting the Southeastern attack force at Ariake Bay was an
entire division and at least one mixed infantry brigade.

On the western shores of Kyushu, the Marines would face the most
brutal opposition. Along the invasion beaches would be the three
Japanese divisions, a tank brigade, a mixed infantry brigade and an
artillery command. Components of two divisions would also be poised to
launch counterattacks. If not needed to reinforce the primary landing
beaches, the American Reserve Force would be landed at the base of
Kagoshima Bay November 4, where they would be confronted by two mixed
infantry
brigades, parts of two infantry divisions and thousands of naval
troops.

All along the invasion beaches, American troops would face coastal
batteries, anti-landing obstacles and a network of heavily fortified
pillboxes, bunkers, and underground fortresses. As Americans waded
ashore, they would face intense artillery and mortar fire as they
worked their way through concrete rubble and barbed-wire entanglements
arranged to funnel them into the muzzles of these Japanese guns.

On the beaches and beyond would be hundreds of Japanese machine gun
positions, beach mines, booby traps, trip-wire mines and sniper units.
Suicide units concealed in “spider holes” would engage the troops as
they passed nearby. In the heat of battle, Japanese infiltration units
would be sent to reap havoc in the American lines by cutting phone and
communication lines. Some of the Japanese troops would be in American
uniform, English-speaking Japanese officers were assigned to break in
on
American radio traffic to call off artillery fire, to order retreats
and to further confuse troops.

Other infiltration with demolition charges strapped on their chests or
backs would attempt to blow up American tanks, artillery pieces and
ammunition stores as they were unloaded ashore.

Beyond the beaches were large artillery pieces situated to bring down
a curtain of fire on the beach. Some of these large guns were mounted
on railroad tracks running in and out of caves protected by concrete
and steel. The battle for Japan would be won by what Simon Bolivar
Buckner, a lieutenant general in the Confederate army during the Civil
War, had called “Prairie Dog Warfare.” This type of fighting was
almost unknown to the ground troops in Europe and the Mediterranean.
It was peculiar
only to the soldiers and Marines who fought the Japanese on islands
all over the Pacific — at Tarawa, Saipan, Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

Prairie Dog Warfare was a battle for yards, feet and sometimes inches.
It was brutal, deadly and dangerous form of combat aimed at an
underground, heavily fortified, non-retreating enemy. In the mountains
behind the Japanese beaches were underground networks of caves,
bunkers, command posts and hospitals connected by miles of tunnels
with dozens of entrances and exits. Some of these complexes could hold
up to 1,000 troops. In addition to the use of poison gas and
bacteriological
warfare (which the Japanese had experimented with), Japan mobilized
its citizenry.

Had Olympic come about, the Japanese civilian population, inflamed by
a national slogan – “One Hundred Million Will Die for the Emperor and
Nation” – were prepared to fight to the death. Twenty Eight Million
Japanese had become a part of the National Volunteer Combat Force.
They were armed with ancient rifles, lunge mines, satchel charges,
Molotov cocktails and one-shot black powder mortars. Others were armed
with swords, long bows, axes and bamboo spears. The civilian units
were to be used in nighttime attacks, hit and run maneuvers, delaying
actions and massive suicide charges at the weaker American positions.
At the early stage of the invasion, 1,000 Japanese and American
soldiers would be dying every hour.

The invasion of Japan never became a reality because on August 6,
1945, an atomic bomb was exploded over Hiroshima. Three days later, a
second bomb was dropped on Nagasaki.

Within days the war with Japan was at a close. Had these bombs not
been dropped and had the invasion been launched as scheduled, combat
casualties in Japan would have been at a minimum of the tens of
thousands. Every foot of Japanese soil would have been paid for by
Japanese and American lives.

One can only guess at how many civilians would have committed suicide
in their homes or in futile mass military attacks. In retrospect, the
1 million American men who were to be the casualties of the invasion,
were instead lucky enough to survive the war. Intelligence studies and
military estimates made 50 years ago, and not latter-day speculation,
clearly indicate that the battle for Japan might well have resulted in
the biggest blood-bath in the history of modern warfare.

Far worse would be what might have happened to Japan as a nation and
as a culture. When the invasion came, it would have come after several
months of fire bombing all of the remaining Japanese cities. The cost
in human life that resulted from the two atomic blasts would be small
in comparison to the total number of Japanese lives that would have
been lost by this aerial devastation.

With American forces locked in combat in the south of Japan, little
could have prevented the Soviet Union from marching into the northern
half of the Japanese home islands. Japan today could be divided much
like Korea and Germany. The world was spared the cost of Operation
Downfall, however, because Japan formally surrendered to the United
Nations September 2, 1945, and World War II was over. The aircraft
carriers, cruisers and transport ships scheduled to carry the invasion
troops to Japan, ferried home American troops in a gigantic operation
called Magic Carpet.

In the fall of 1945, in the aftermath of the war, few people concerned
themselves with the invasion plans. Following the surrender, the
classified documents, maps, diagrams and appendices for Operation
Downfall were packed away in boxes and eventually stored at the
National Archives. These plans that called for the invasion of Japan
paint a vivid description of what might have been one of the most
horrible campaigns in the history of man. The fact that the story of
the invasion of Japan is locked up in the National Archives, and is
not told in our history books is something for which all Americans can
be thankful.

I had the distinct privilege of being assigned as later commander of
the 8090th PACUSA detach, 20th AAF, and one of the personal pilots of
then Brig General Fred Irving USMA17 when he was commanding general of
Western Pacific Base Command. We had a brand new C-46F tail number
8546. It was different from the rest of the C-46 line in that it was
equipped with Hamilton Hydromatic props whereas the others had Curtis
electrics. On one of the many flights we had 14 Generals and Admirals
aboard on an inspection trip to Saipan and Tinian. Notable aboard was
General Thomas C. Handy, who had signed the operational order to drop
the atomic bombs on Japan.

Tags: General

4 Comments »
4 Responses to “1945 Invasion of Japan Plans”

on 29 Jun 2010 at 8:30 am 1Tweets that mention The Absurd Report
» 1945 Invasion of Japan Plans -- Topsy.com

[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Harry S Truman, Tom
Townsend. Tom Townsend said: WWII 29 June 1945: US President Truman
approves Operation Downfall, the planned invasion of Japan:
http://bit.ly/c2hybJ [...]
on 08 Aug 2010 at 8:45 pm 2cberg

1945 Invasion of Japan Plans

This is an excellent piece. Thank you.

I will send this to a liberal that argued we didn’t need to use
the atomic bomb because Japan WAS READY TO SURRENDER ANYWAY.

She said there were documents proving this. All we needed to do
was make it less than an unconditional surrender,…they wanted to keep
their Emporer.

I pointed out, you don’t take less than an unconditional surrender
when dealing with such a fanatical regime.

A well-meaning women of 83, she lived through the war!!!

I made every argument except I didn’t have what you supplied in
this article- the outstanding information of Japanese plans to defend
their home island, that the 12k aircraft, etc they had to do it!!!

She thought if we dropped an atomic bomb in the ocean that would
have scared them. I pointed out Okinowa, and how many civilians died,
and that we had to drop 2 atom bombs before they surrender, plus the
as deadly fire bombings.

She said she was a pacifist, and I said to her, “Pacifists by
definition don’t have the mentality to understand war”, which she
couldn’t disagree with.

A pacifist would rather be killed, that kill the person that would
kill them.

I know. I have a Thai Buddhist monk friend who explicitly states
this (very sharp person).

I ran into another admittedly communist liberal a week later who
had a different excuse…”the Japanese were ready to surrender because
they were afraid of the Russians” (!!!).

He’s a lost cause, but I am going to forward your article to the
woman I was debating with.

Your article was just what the doctor ordered!

Thank you,

Charles

"The socialist movement takes great pains to circulate frequently new labels for its ideally constructed state.
Each worn-out label is replaced by another which raises hopes of an ultimate solution of the insoluble basic
problem of Socialism, until it becomes obvious that nothing has been changed but the name.
The most recent slogan is "State Capitalism."[Fascism] It is not commonly realized that this covers nothing more
than what used to be called Planned Economy and State Socialism, and that State Capitalism, Planned Economy,
and State Socialism diverge only in non-essentials from the "classic" ideal of egalitarian Socialism. - Ludwig von Mises (1922)

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 11:03:24 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 20:02:04 +0700, Miguel wrote:


Save a million lives? Yes, I remember that bit, it was utter bull****.
Japan at the time of the surrender was flat on their ass. All the talk
of fighting in the street... the people couldn't even find enough to
eat.
How do I know? Well my uncle was generous enough to pay my way over
for a three year visit.

What year did you visit? You obviously werent there in the 1940s

Nope. the guys that visited in the early 40's didn't enjoy what one
might term as a lavish style of living :

http://www.theabsurdreport.com/2007/...f-japan-plans/

1945 Invasion of Japan Plans

Yup, the estimated casuality figures seemed to be commonly known about
the time that the bombs were dropped, I believe officially released as
excuse for dropping the bombs. And, I might comment that people in the
U.S. were glad that the war was over, regardless of how or why. I
might also comment that at that time you would likely have had a hard
time finding anyone who would have objected to killing another hundred
thousand, or so, of those devils.

I was in Japan from the early 1950's and I can tell you for sure that
the talk of the Japanese population "fighting in the streets" as it
was alleged that they would (in order to justify the millions of
causalities) is pretty far out. The average Japanese citizen was doing
well just to keep his head above water, to say nothing of fighting
fixed battles. Their navy and air force was pretty much destroyed, you
will remember, I'm sure, that a year earlier they were unable to
support their troops in the Philippines.

You also need to remember that Japanese anti weapon laws date back to
1588 when the Shogun Hideyoshi decreed the "Sword Hunt," and banned
possession of swords (weapons) by the lower classes, so there are no
weapons in civilian hands, nor any experience in using weapons. Hard
to work up a lot of enthusiasm for charging the U.S. Marines with your
Missus' kitchen knife.

But the point is, not what we did then, but what are doing now?
Moaning and groaning about gassing, what was it? 3,000 Arabs?

I find it ironic that while the U.S. Government says that "Texting in
cars and trucks causes over 3,000 deaths and 330,000 injuries per
year", you don't hear a peep, but a few foreigners gas each other and
the Ethernet is full of weeping and crying.

But I suppose that deflects attention from the very real domestic
problems :-)
--
Cheers,

Miguel

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 20:02:04 +0700, Miguel
wrote:


Save a million lives? Yes, I remember that bit, it was utter
bull****.
Japan at the time of the surrender was flat on their ass. All the
talk
of fighting in the street... the people couldn't even find enough to
eat.
How do I know? Well my uncle was generous enough to pay my way over
for a three year visit.

What year did you visit? You obviously werent there in the 1940s

http://www.theabsurdreport.com/2007/...f-japan-plans/

1945 Invasion of Japan Plans
...
Allied intelligence had established that the Japanese had no more
than
2,500 aircraft of which they guessed 300 would be deployed in
suicide
attacks. In August 1945, however, unknown to Allied intelligence,
the
Japanese still had 5,651 army and 7,074 navy aircraft, for a total
of
12,725 planes of all types. Every village had some type of aircraft
manufacturing activity. Hidden in mines, railway tunnels, under
viaducts and in basements of department stores, work was being done
to
construct new planes....

What we did know was that bombing hadn't touched the well-fed,
1,385,000 Japanese troops in China, and all our air and naval
firepower hadn't dislodged their infantry from fiercely and
effectively defended dug-in ground positions.

Okinawa and Iwo Jima showed us how hard they would fight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Okinawa
"The battle resulted in the highest number of casualties in the
Pacific Theater during World War II. Japan lost over 100,000 soldiers,
who were either killed, captured or committed suicide, and the Allies
suffered more than 65,000 casualties of all kinds. Simultaneously,
tens of thousands of local civilians were killed, wounded, or
committed suicide."

Leningrad and Tobruk had proven how stubborn a good defense could be.
Both were on flat ground and prepared quickly with manual labor.

Their Ki-84 fighter was a match for our best.
http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircr...ircraft_id=564

jsw

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 07:54:20 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 20:02:04 +0700, Miguel
wrote:


Save a million lives? Yes, I remember that bit, it was utter
bull****.
Japan at the time of the surrender was flat on their ass. All the
talk
of fighting in the street... the people couldn't even find enough to
eat.
How do I know? Well my uncle was generous enough to pay my way over
for a three year visit.

What year did you visit? You obviously werent there in the 1940s

http://www.theabsurdreport.com/2007/...f-japan-plans/

1945 Invasion of Japan Plans
...
Allied intelligence had established that the Japanese had no more
than
2,500 aircraft of which they guessed 300 would be deployed in
suicide
attacks. In August 1945, however, unknown to Allied intelligence,
the
Japanese still had 5,651 army and 7,074 navy aircraft, for a total
of
12,725 planes of all types. Every village had some type of aircraft
manufacturing activity. Hidden in mines, railway tunnels, under
viaducts and in basements of department stores, work was being done
to
construct new planes....

What we did know was that bombing hadn't touched the well-fed,
1,385,000 Japanese troops in China, and all our air and naval
firepower hadn't dislodged their infantry from fiercely and
effectively defended dug-in ground positions.

Okinawa and Iwo Jima showed us how hard they would fight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Okinawa
"The battle resulted in the highest number of casualties in the
Pacific Theater during World War II. Japan lost over 100,000 soldiers,
who were either killed, captured or committed suicide, and the Allies
suffered more than 65,000 casualties of all kinds. Simultaneously,
tens of thousands of local civilians were killed, wounded, or
committed suicide."

U.S. forces - 65,000 causalities of which 12,500 were killed or
missing

Imperial Japanese forces - 107,539 killed in battle plus another
23,764 in underground bunkers that were sealed.

Civilians - Exact figure unknown but estimated by U.S. forces as
142,058 killed during campaign.

Leningrad and Tobruk had proven how stubborn a good defense could be.
Both were on flat ground and prepared quickly with manual labor.


Japan isn't "flat ground", in fact it is quite mountainous.

Their Ki-84 fighter was a match for our best.
http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircr...ircraft_id=564

Certainly the Japanese built good airplanes, but:

The number of fighters assigned to the Air General Army peaked at
just over 500 during June and July, but most frontline units had
relatively few serviceable aircraft.[198] During the last weeks of the
war Superfortresses were able to operate with near impunity owing to
the weakness of the Japanese air defenses; LeMay later claimed that
during this period "it was safer to fly a combat mission over Japan
than it was to fly a B-29 training mission back in the United States
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raids_on_Japan)

jsw

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Cheers,

John B.