Those following RCM closely know I've been rebuilding my CNC mill.

I had startup early this evening with all new seals and bearings in
the spindle and drive head. I ran it at 2250 RPM for about 30 minutes.
the outside of the quill was about 150 degrees (I could hold my hand
on it several seconds before feeling it might burn). Normal? How hot
is it safe to go? I can run 4000 but thought I shouldn't go there till
it has several run hours.

it is nice to not have a machine that slings oil, and now there is
virtually 0 defection in the spindle (vs. 0.006 before). Plus I found
a coupling in the Z drive that was loose causing problems in Z
dimension.

I still need to rebuild the one shot auto lube system and chase down
one last air leak.

Those that REALLY have a long memory know I rebuilt the table and
added a power ballscrew to the knee last year. I think this old girl
is good for another 30 years now.

Karl

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 20:02:46 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

Those following RCM closely know I've been rebuilding my CNC mill.

I had startup early this evening with all new seals and bearings in
the spindle and drive head. I ran it at 2250 RPM for about 30 minutes.
the outside of the quill was about 150 degrees (I could hold my hand
on it several seconds before feeling it might burn). Normal? How hot
is it safe to go? I can run 4000 but thought I shouldn't go there till
it has several run hours.

it is nice to not have a machine that slings oil, and now there is
virtually 0 defection in the spindle (vs. 0.006 before). Plus I found
a coupling in the Z drive that was loose causing problems in Z
dimension.

I still need to rebuild the one shot auto lube system and chase down
one last air leak.

Those that REALLY have a long memory know I rebuilt the table and
added a power ballscrew to the knee last year. I think this old girl
is good for another 30 years now.

Karl

You may..may wish to back off the preload nut a smidgen. When doing
bearings..ALWAYS start off slow for 30-45 minutes. Like...200 or less
RPM, then go up to 400, then 800 and then 1200 and then 2400. etc etc

Seriously. I rebuild precision spindles regularly and most often the
client wants to put the machine right back to work and is moderatly
****ed that he cant. So Ill hang around off the clock checking on it
for a couple hours and then put it back to work. Shrug
About 1 out of 10 may need the bearings backed off a fraction of a
turn. In 3 yrs...they may be loose and need tightening..or they may
run the next 20 yrs dead nuts.

150F seems a bit warm for 2250, even with new bearings..so you may
have the bearings a smidgeon too tight. Or they arent being oil
dripped (if thats how they are lubed, properly.

Just a suggestion. Take it as you wish.

Gunner

My bridgeport interact runs at 110-120 degrees at that RPM

Karl Townsend wrote:

Those following RCM closely know I've been rebuilding my CNC mill.

I had startup early this evening with all new seals and bearings in
the spindle and drive head. I ran it at 2250 RPM for about 30 minutes.
the outside of the quill was about 150 degrees (I could hold my hand
on it several seconds before feeling it might burn). Normal? How hot
is it safe to go? I can run 4000 but thought I shouldn't go there till
it has several run hours.

it is nice to not have a machine that slings oil, and now there is
virtually 0 defection in the spindle (vs. 0.006 before). Plus I found
a coupling in the Z drive that was loose causing problems in Z
dimension.

I still need to rebuild the one shot auto lube system and chase down
one last air leak.

Those that REALLY have a long memory know I rebuilt the table and
added a power ballscrew to the knee last year. I think this old girl
is good for another 30 years now.

Karl

A break-in procedure I found says 500 rpm for 15 min, then 1000 and up
in 1000 rpm steps of 15 min each. I see indications that 130-150F is the
normal operating temp range. The break-in procedure is intended to
distribute the initial factory grease and let regular lube in so there
aren't grease globs for the bearing balls to slam into when running at
high speed. It's reported that at each rpm step temps will spike to the
top of the range initially then drop back to a lower stable temp. It
sounds like you've bypassed most of the break in procedure, but it still
wouldn't hurt to go through it while ensuring your spindle lube pump is
replacing the factory grease with regular spindle lube.

Karl Townsend wrote:

Those following RCM closely know I've been rebuilding my CNC mill.

I had startup early this evening with all new seals and bearings in
the spindle and drive head. I ran it at 2250 RPM for about 30 minutes.
the outside of the quill was about 150 degrees (I could hold my hand
on it several seconds before feeling it might burn). Normal? How hot
is it safe to go? I can run 4000 but thought I shouldn't go there till
it has several run hours.

it is nice to not have a machine that slings oil, and now there is
virtually 0 defection in the spindle (vs. 0.006 before). Plus I found
a coupling in the Z drive that was loose causing problems in Z
dimension.

I still need to rebuild the one shot auto lube system and chase down
one last air leak.

Those that REALLY have a long memory know I rebuilt the table and
added a power ballscrew to the knee last year. I think this old girl
is good for another 30 years now.

Karl

Take a look at:

http://spindle.info/answers/what-hap...be/how-to/131/

On 7/29/2013 9:02 PM, Karl Townsend wrote:
Those following RCM closely know I've been rebuilding my CNC mill.

I had startup early this evening with all new seals and bearings in
the spindle and drive head. I ran it at 2250 RPM for about 30 minutes.
the outside of the quill was about 150 degrees (I could hold my hand
on it several seconds before feeling it might burn). Normal? How hot
is it safe to go? I can run 4000 but thought I shouldn't go there till
it has several run hours.

it is nice to not have a machine that slings oil, and now there is
virtually 0 defection in the spindle (vs. 0.006 before). Plus I found
a coupling in the Z drive that was loose causing problems in Z
dimension.

I still need to rebuild the one shot auto lube system and chase down
one last air leak.

Those that REALLY have a long memory know I rebuilt the table and
added a power ballscrew to the knee last year. I think this old girl
is good for another 30 years now.

Karl



When we replace Barden super-precision bearing in high speed quills and
shaper shafts we follow a break in protocol in addition to smacking the
shaft back and forth with a rawhide mallet. I can't explain how hard to
hit it, how often or why, it's a feel thing...just the way I was taught.
I've been very lucky for a few decades and never had a shaft run warm
for long.

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
Those following RCM closely know I've been rebuilding my CNC mill.

I had startup early this evening with all new seals and bearings in
the spindle and drive head. I ran it at 2250 RPM for about 30 minutes.
the outside of the quill was about 150 degrees (I could hold my hand
on it several seconds before feeling it might burn). Normal? How hot
is it safe to go? I can run 4000 but thought I shouldn't go there till
it has several run hours.

it is nice to not have a machine that slings oil, and now there is
virtually 0 defection in the spindle (vs. 0.006 before). Plus I found
a coupling in the Z drive that was loose causing problems in Z
dimension.

I still need to rebuild the one shot auto lube system and chase down
one last air leak.

Those that REALLY have a long memory know I rebuilt the table and
added a power ballscrew to the knee last year. I think this old girl
is good for another 30 years now.


The idea is to distribute the grease in a very thin film. The procedure
involves starting out at some fairly low rpm and letting it run till
temperature equilibruim is reached...the first time you pass through each
step, you will see a temperature spike and then teh temp will drop slightly
and stabilize, if so, you;re safe to move on up to the next step...but if it
continues to rise, or if you have any doubts whatsoever, then best to shut
it down and let it completely cool and start all over again.

When the grease is properly distributed, the spike dissapears altogether.

Karl Townsend wrote:

Those following RCM closely know I've been rebuilding my CNC mill.

I had startup early this evening with all new seals and bearings in
the spindle and drive head. I ran it at 2250 RPM for about 30 minutes.
the outside of the quill was about 150 degrees (I could hold my hand
on it several seconds before feeling it might burn). Normal? How hot
is it safe to go? I can run 4000 but thought I shouldn't go there till
it has several run hours.

it is nice to not have a machine that slings oil, and now there is
virtually 0 defection in the spindle (vs. 0.006 before). Plus I found
a coupling in the Z drive that was loose causing problems in Z
dimension.

Is this a spindle that has provisions for oiling? If so, it probably
was meant for oil lube, not grease. You may need to put some oil in
and let it run for a while, and slowly wash out the assembly grease.

If it is a sealed grease spindle, you may have used the wrong
grade of grease. if it is heating to 150 F at 2250, you will
probably have severe overheating at 4000. This much heating will
definitely show up in growth of the spindle, probably a
few thousandths, at least.

Jon

Jon Elson wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:

Those following RCM closely know I've been rebuilding my CNC mill.

I had startup early this evening with all new seals and bearings in
the spindle and drive head. I ran it at 2250 RPM for about 30 minutes.
the outside of the quill was about 150 degrees (I could hold my hand
on it several seconds before feeling it might burn). Normal? How hot
is it safe to go? I can run 4000 but thought I shouldn't go there till
it has several run hours.

it is nice to not have a machine that slings oil, and now there is
virtually 0 defection in the spindle (vs. 0.006 before). Plus I found
a coupling in the Z drive that was loose causing problems in Z
dimension.

Is this a spindle that has provisions for oiling? If so, it probably
was meant for oil lube, not grease. You may need to put some oil in
and let it run for a while, and slowly wash out the assembly grease.

If it is a sealed grease spindle, you may have used the wrong
grade of grease. if it is heating to 150 F at 2250, you will
probably have severe overheating at 4000. This much heating will
definitely show up in growth of the spindle, probably a
few thousandths, at least.

Jon

It sounds like it was factory applied grease, probably a small amount
intended to provide initial lube. I expect the machine has a spindle
lube pump unit, so the break in procedure should work the grease out to
a thin film as the normal lube comes in to replace it. Jumping the gun
and running it up to half speed probably didn't do it any good, but once
it's fully cooled, the proper break in procedure along with enduring the
lube pump has moved enough regular lube in should help settle things
down to normal operating temps which are usually pretty warm anyway.

Is this a spindle that has provisions for oiling? If so, it probably
was meant for oil lube, not grease. You may need to put some oil in
and let it run for a while, and slowly wash out the assembly grease.

If it is a sealed grease spindle, you may have used the wrong
grade of grease. if it is heating to 150 F at 2250, you will
probably have severe overheating at 4000. This much heating will
definitely show up in growth of the spindle, probably a
few thousandths, at least.

Jon

Its just a greased spiindle, like on a car. I used ordinary car axle
grease. Did i screw up? What should i have bought?

Got A LOT of work to do on the farm. I'll run it at 500 RPM and work
my way up when i got time to sit and watch it.

Karl

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...

Is this a spindle that has provisions for oiling? If so, it probably
was meant for oil lube, not grease. You may need to put some oil in
and let it run for a while, and slowly wash out the assembly grease.

If it is a sealed grease spindle, you may have used the wrong
grade of grease. if it is heating to 150 F at 2250, you will
probably have severe overheating at 4000. This much heating will
definitely show up in growth of the spindle, probably a
few thousandths, at least.

Jon

Its just a greased spiindle, like on a car. I used ordinary car axle
grease. Did i screw up?

Probably, yes.

What should i have bought?

Kluber nbu15 is the usual, fill no more than 1/3 of the space between each
ball. Generally I'll completely fill one space, note how much it takes, and
then I'll suck 2/3 of it back out before finally applying the proper amount
to the rest of the spaces.

Another way I've heard is to use mobiltemp shc-32, mix it with acetone, dip
the bearings in it and then let the acetone dry out, I've never done it this
way so can't really comment further except to note that I see no reason why
one couldn't dispense with the acetone and simply apply with a syringe the
same as above.

Got A LOT of work to do on the farm. I'll run it at 500 RPM and work
my way up when i got time to sit and watch it.

Karl

"PrecisionmachinisT" fired this
volley in news:6qSdnXwTNtCUZ2rMnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@scnresearch. com:


Kluber nbu15 is the usual, fill no more than 1/3 of the space between
each ball. Generally I'll completely fill one space, note how much it
takes, and then I'll suck 2/3 of it back out before finally applying
the proper amount to the rest of the spaces.

Another way I've heard is to use mobiltemp shc-32, mix it with
acetone, dip the bearings in it and then let the acetone dry out, I've
never done it this way so can't really comment further except to note
that I see no reason why one couldn't dispense with the acetone and
simply apply with a syringe the same as above.


PT,
I've recently upgraded controllers in my old BOSS series I machine. Next
on my list is a spindle rebuild/upgrade.

I know how to do clean work, but I've never rebuilt anything as precise
as a spindle must be. Two questions:

1) Am I better off just 'biting the bullet' and letting a spindle house
re-do it, and
2) Can I get that spindle to reliably do 6Krpm with the right bearings
and lubricants?

LS

Karl Townsend wrote:


Its just a greased spiindle, like on a car. I used ordinary car axle
grease. Did i screw up? What should i have bought?

Got A LOT of work to do on the farm. I'll run it at 500 RPM and work
my way up when i got time to sit and watch it.
4000 RPM on a sealed greased spindle? Are you sure? Most of the
Ser II Bridgeports and such have a much lower max spindle speed.
The higher-speed spindles mostly have oil-lubed bearings.
Anyway, 4000 RPM on a sealed greased bearing is going to require
some sort of special grease for sure. There are things like Royal
spindle bearing greases that are designed to run cool(er) in high
speed low-clearance bearings.

Jon

Jon Elson wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:

Its just a greased spiindle, like on a car. I used ordinary car axle
grease. Did i screw up? What should i have bought?

Got A LOT of work to do on the farm. I'll run it at 500 RPM and work
my way up when i got time to sit and watch it.
4000 RPM on a sealed greased spindle? Are you sure? Most of the
Ser II Bridgeports and such have a much lower max spindle speed.
The higher-speed spindles mostly have oil-lubed bearings.
Anyway, 4000 RPM on a sealed greased bearing is going to require
some sort of special grease for sure. There are things like Royal
spindle bearing greases that are designed to run cool(er) in high
speed low-clearance bearings.

Jon

The Precise S-65 spindle I recently acquired is grease lubed and sealed
and rated to 45,000 RPM. The documentation for it is very insistent that
the proper warm-up procedure be followed every time the spindle is
started from cold.

Pete C. wrote:


The Precise S-65 spindle I recently acquired is grease lubed and sealed
and rated to 45,000 RPM. The documentation for it is very insistent that
the proper warm-up procedure be followed every time the spindle is
started from cold.
And, I'll bet they don't use ordinary axle grease from the
auto parts store in there, either!

So, what IS the start-up procedure? I have a 54K Precise spindle,
and no manual or frequency converter. I will eventually build a
converter to drive it.

Jon

Jon Elson wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

The Precise S-65 spindle I recently acquired is grease lubed and sealed
and rated to 45,000 RPM. The documentation for it is very insistent that
the proper warm-up procedure be followed every time the spindle is
started from cold.
And, I'll bet they don't use ordinary axle grease from the
auto parts store in there, either!

So, what IS the start-up procedure? I have a 54K Precise spindle,
and no manual or frequency converter. I will eventually build a
converter to drive it.

Jon

http://wpnet.us/Precise_S65.pdf

FYI, I got that by emailing them, and they responded in about an hour
and a half.

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"PrecisionmachinisT" fired this
volley in news:6qSdnXwTNtCUZ2rMnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@scnresearch. com:


Kluber nbu15 is the usual, fill no more than 1/3 of the space between
each ball. Generally I'll completely fill one space, note how much it
takes, and then I'll suck 2/3 of it back out before finally applying
the proper amount to the rest of the spaces.

Another way I've heard is to use mobiltemp shc-32, mix it with
acetone, dip the bearings in it and then let the acetone dry out, I've
never done it this way so can't really comment further except to note
that I see no reason why one couldn't dispense with the acetone and
simply apply with a syringe the same as above.


PT,
I've recently upgraded controllers in my old BOSS series I machine. Next
on my list is a spindle rebuild/upgrade.

I know how to do clean work, but I've never rebuilt anything as precise
as a spindle must be. Two questions:

1) Am I better off just 'biting the bullet' and letting a spindle house
re-do it, and
2) Can I get that spindle to reliably do 6Krpm with the right bearings
and lubricants?


I've got a feeling you'll be just fine, Lloyd.

Pete C. wrote:


http://wpnet.us/Precise_S65.pdf

FYI, I got that by emailing them, and they responded in about an hour
and a half.
Thanks! If yours has brushes, it is even older than mine.
Mine has a 2-phase induction motor, and although it has a
scroll housing for a fan, there is no fan, you have to
supply an external cooling blower. I didn't get the
frequency converter with it, and will have to build something
myself.

Jon

"PrecisionmachinisT" fired this volley
in news:q6KdnfvfAcZP0mXMnZ2dnUVZ_oGdnZ2d@scnresearch. com:

I've got a feeling you'll be just fine, Lloyd.

Heh! Thanks; but I was hoping you'd been through it and might have some
recommendations. G

Lloyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley in
. 3.70:

Heh! Thanks; but I was hoping you'd been through it and might have some
recommendations. G


The series 1 spindles are shot-oiled, which probably matters for this
discussion.

Lloyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley in
. 3.70:

The series 1 spindles are shot-oiled, which probably matters for this
discussion

Um... revising that... they are "prelubricated bearings", as-supplied, and
listed as 'permanently' lubed. But Vactra #2 flies around in that zone all
the time, so I figure they probably end up getting washed.

Lloyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"PrecisionmachinisT" fired this volley
in news:q6KdnfvfAcZP0mXMnZ2dnUVZ_oGdnZ2d@scnresearch. com:

I've got a feeling you'll be just fine, Lloyd.

Heh! Thanks; but I was hoping you'd been through it

Not on that particular machine.

and might have some recommendations.

Figure out what bearings it takes, source them from ebay, and always keep a
spare set on hand.

Use premium grease and don't overfill. Don't hammer on them, but especially
don't hammer on the outer race when fitting onto a shaft, or on the inner
race when fitting into a bore.

Why exactly do you thinkl that they need be replaced?

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley in
. 3.70:

Heh! Thanks; but I was hoping you'd been through it and might have some
recommendations. G


The series 1 spindles are shot-oiled, which probably matters for this
discussion.


I think that oil only luricates the quill/housing sliding interface on those
and that the bearings are "lifetime lubed" but I could be mistaken.

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley in
. 3.70:

The series 1 spindles are shot-oiled, which probably matters for this
discussion

Um... revising that... they are "prelubricated bearings", as-supplied, and
listed as 'permanently' lubed. But Vactra #2 flies around in that zone
all
the time, so I figure they probably end up getting washed.


Pretty sure you can upgrade those by reducing the spacer lengths and adding
more bearings to the stack (quad instead of duplex set)....something to look
into, perhaps...

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley in
. 3.70:

The series 1 spindles are shot-oiled, which probably matters for this
discussion


I recall there being a toilet seat up there, then again once you've seen a
few dozen knee mills they kinda all start looking about the same.

Jon Elson wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

http://wpnet.us/Precise_S65.pdf

FYI, I got that by emailing them, and they responded in about an hour
and a half.
Thanks! If yours has brushes, it is even older than mine.
Mine has a 2-phase induction motor, and although it has a
scroll housing for a fan, there is no fan, you have to
supply an external cooling blower. I didn't get the
frequency converter with it, and will have to build something
myself.

Jon

The price was certainly right ($20) and Precise still supports it. I
need to get a couple collets and collet nut, but otherwise it should
make a great aux spindle on the CNC mill once I make a mount for it. The
mill spindle only goes to 4,500 RPM so a 45,000 RPM aux will be great
for work with tiny cutters.

Pete C. wrote:


The price was certainly right ($20) and Precise still supports it. I
need to get a couple collets and collet nut, but otherwise it should
make a great aux spindle on the CNC mill once I make a mount for it. The
mill spindle only goes to 4,500 RPM so a 45,000 RPM aux will be great
for work with tiny cutters.

Wow, I thought I got a deal on mine! The collets were about $80
each, I think, when I called.

Jon

Jon Elson wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

The price was certainly right ($20) and Precise still supports it. I
need to get a couple collets and collet nut, but otherwise it should
make a great aux spindle on the CNC mill once I make a mount for it. The
mill spindle only goes to 4,500 RPM so a 45,000 RPM aux will be great
for work with tiny cutters.

Wow, I thought I got a deal on mine! The collets were about $80
each, I think, when I called.

Jon

I ran across another company that seems to do all specialty collets that
has them for about $40.

Pete - do you remember the name of the company that deals with specialty
collets?

Hul

I ran across another company that seems to do all specialty collets that
has them for about $40.