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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Milling Machine 30 taper conversion?
My home shop CNC mill is a Bridgeport with an Anilam Crusader II controller.
Last time I switched it on, the controller didn't power up. I've been wanting to do the LinuxCNC upgrade on it anyway and this looks like a good time to do it. LinuxCNC will give me greater capabilities with the machine than the original control was capable of. .... So I'm considering automatic tool changing but I would need to convert my Erickson QC30 spindle to a pull-stud drawbar. Looking at the tapers, the CAT 30 or BT 30 should fit but be shorter than the QC 30, leaving me room to make a pull stud drawbar. Something like: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ible-mac_p.jpg At first I plan to just set the tooling up on the table, something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYj_HVDn08Y Anyone here know of anything like an Erickson QC 30 to pull stud drawbar conversion? Or a drawing of the inside of the Erickson spindle? RogerN |
#2
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Milling Machine 30 taper conversion?
On 2013-05-06, RogerN wrote:
My home shop CNC mill is a Bridgeport with an Anilam Crusader II controller. Last time I switched it on, the controller didn't power up. I've been wanting to do the LinuxCNC upgrade on it anyway and this looks like a good time to do it. LinuxCNC will give me greater capabilities with the machine than the original control was capable of. ... So I'm considering automatic tool changing but I would need to convert my Erickson QC30 spindle to a pull-stud drawbar. Looking at the tapers, the CAT 30 or BT 30 should fit but be shorter than the QC 30, leaving me room to make a pull stud drawbar. Something like: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ible-mac_p.jpg At first I plan to just set the tooling up on the table, something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYj_HVDn08Y Anyone here know of anything like an Erickson QC 30 to pull stud drawbar conversion? Or a drawing of the inside of the Erickson spindle? RogerN Kurt sells power drawbars. i |
#3
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Milling Machine 30 taper conversion?
Looking at the drawings of NMTB 30, CAT 30, BT30, looks like they would all work in an NMTB spindle with the appropriate drawbar. I've mostly looked at the internal taper dimensions, not sure about the drive keys fitting all. I was thinking about getting a pull stud style CAT or BT 30 toolholder and seeing if I can make a spring loaded pull stud drawbar for it. If not, I would at least like to be able to use it with a threaded drawbar. RogerN |
#4
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Milling Machine 30 taper conversion?
"RogerN" fired this volley in
m: I've mostly looked at the internal taper dimensions, not sure about the drive keys fitting all. The only thing I'm sure of without looking at prints is that most NMTB-30 toolholders will fit a QC-30 spindle. (we've got a good mix of brands, mostly European, including ONE Chinese holder... guess which one doesn't fit G). When they don't, it has always been (for us) because the toolholder's flange is too thin (by about 0.050) to be gripped by the locking collar. LLoyd |
#5
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Milling Machine 30 taper conversion?
On 06/05/13 07:04, RogerN wrote:
My home shop CNC mill is a Bridgeport with an Anilam Crusader II controller. Last time I switched it on, the controller didn't power up. I've been wanting to do the LinuxCNC upgrade on it anyway and this looks like a good time to do it. LinuxCNC will give me greater capabilities with the machine than the original control was capable of. ... So I'm considering automatic tool changing but I would need to convert my Erickson QC30 spindle to a pull-stud drawbar. Looking at the tapers, the CAT 30 or BT 30 should fit but be shorter than the QC 30, leaving me room to make a pull stud drawbar. Something like: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ible-mac_p.jpg At first I plan to just set the tooling up on the table, something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYj_HVDn08Y Anyone here know of anything like an Erickson QC 30 to pull stud drawbar conversion? Or a drawing of the inside of the Erickson spindle? RogerN Not an Erickson spindle but here is a power drawbar drawing for a Denford Triac CNC mill www.denfordata.com/bb/download/file.php?id=897 . Actually the tool holder is held in by the disc spring stack and either hydraulic or air used to push the pull stud holder out. IIRC the tool holder used is BT30. |
#6
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Milling Machine 30 taper conversion?
RogerN wrote: My home shop CNC mill is a Bridgeport with an Anilam Crusader II controller. Last time I switched it on, the controller didn't power up. I've been wanting to do the LinuxCNC upgrade on it anyway and this looks like a good time to do it. LinuxCNC will give me greater capabilities with the machine than the original control was capable of. ... So I'm considering automatic tool changing but I would need to convert my Erickson QC30 spindle to a pull-stud drawbar. Looking at the tapers, the CAT 30 or BT 30 should fit but be shorter than the QC 30, leaving me room to make a pull stud drawbar. Something like: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ible-mac_p.jpg At first I plan to just set the tooling up on the table, something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYj_HVDn08Y Anyone here know of anything like an Erickson QC 30 to pull stud drawbar conversion? Or a drawing of the inside of the Erickson spindle? RogerN A few key things to keep in mind for such a conversion: - Toolholder retention is via a stack of belville washers that exerts a *lot* of force to pull the toolholder into the taper. This is why the actuator is usually hydraulic as it would take a very large dia pneumatic cylinder to get the required force to release. - The actuator mechanism is "floating" and thus has no contact with the spindle when a toolchange is not taking place. - The actuator mounting will lift from it's non-contact idle position when actuated so it is in contact with a flange at the top of the spindle while pushing down on the drawbar. This is so no toolchange force is applied to the spindle bearings which could damage them. - The actuator travel is such that the drawbar will apply a push to the toolholder at the end of the stroke to pop free a sticking toolholder. - Air is usually piped into the spindle and switched on during the tool loading to blow out any chips that may be on the toolholder taper. |
#7
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Milling Machine 30 taper conversion?
"Pete C." wrote in message ... - The actuator mounting will lift from it's non-contact idle position when actuated so it is in contact with a flange at the top of the spindle while pushing down on the drawbar. This is so no toolchange force is applied to the spindle bearings which could damage them. Not in my experience, although a quill-type spindle cartridge does need to have a means of positively locking it in the full up position. - The actuator travel is such that the drawbar will apply a push to the toolholder at the end of the stroke to pop free a sticking toolholder. Hammering on the top of a conventional drawbar is the usual method, which doesn't seem to damage spindle bearings so far as I've been able to ascertain. |
#8
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Milling Machine 30 taper conversion?
PrecisionmachinisT wrote: "Pete C." wrote in message ... - The actuator mounting will lift from it's non-contact idle position when actuated so it is in contact with a flange at the top of the spindle while pushing down on the drawbar. This is so no toolchange force is applied to the spindle bearings which could damage them. Not in my experience, although a quill-type spindle cartridge does need to have a means of positively locking it in the full up position. The machines I used to work on were this way, perhaps designs changed in recent years. The force was always applied between the spindle and the drawbar such that no force was applied to the spindle bearings. - The actuator travel is such that the drawbar will apply a push to the toolholder at the end of the stroke to pop free a sticking toolholder. Hammering on the top of a conventional drawbar is the usual method, which doesn't seem to damage spindle bearings so far as I've been able to ascertain. A rap with a hammer vs. pressing hundreds of pounds with a hydraulic actuator. Perhaps they've beefed up spindle bearings in recent years as spindle speeds have increased so they can more readily handle the toolchange load. Or perhaps you haven't looked at the actuator closely enough since without looking at the prints it's not immediately obvious that the force is not applied to the bearings. |
#9
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Milling Machine 30 taper conversion?
"Pete C." wrote in message ... PrecisionmachinisT wrote: "Pete C." wrote in message ... - The actuator mounting will lift from it's non-contact idle position when actuated so it is in contact with a flange at the top of the spindle while pushing down on the drawbar. This is so no toolchange force is applied to the spindle bearings which could damage them. Not in my experience, although a quill-type spindle cartridge does need to have a means of positively locking it in the full up position. The machines I used to work on were this way, perhaps designs changed in recent years. The force was always applied between the spindle and the drawbar such that no force was applied to the spindle bearings. - The actuator travel is such that the drawbar will apply a push to the toolholder at the end of the stroke to pop free a sticking toolholder. Hammering on the top of a conventional drawbar is the usual method, which doesn't seem to damage spindle bearings so far as I've been able to ascertain. A rap with a hammer vs. pressing hundreds of pounds with a hydraulic actuator. Perhaps they've beefed up spindle bearings in recent years as The actuator bottoms out internally after the tool releases, thus the max pressure that is placed onto the bearing is the same in either case. spindle speeds have increased so they can more readily handle the toolchange load. Or perhaps you haven't looked at the actuator closely enough since without looking at the prints it's not immediately obvious that the force is not applied to the bearings. No, it's immediately obvious from my having actually worked on them for going on 35 years now. |
#10
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Milling Machine 30 taper conversion?
PrecisionmachinisT wrote: "Pete C." wrote in message ... PrecisionmachinisT wrote: "Pete C." wrote in message ... - The actuator mounting will lift from it's non-contact idle position when actuated so it is in contact with a flange at the top of the spindle while pushing down on the drawbar. This is so no toolchange force is applied to the spindle bearings which could damage them. Not in my experience, although a quill-type spindle cartridge does need to have a means of positively locking it in the full up position. The machines I used to work on were this way, perhaps designs changed in recent years. The force was always applied between the spindle and the drawbar such that no force was applied to the spindle bearings. - The actuator travel is such that the drawbar will apply a push to the toolholder at the end of the stroke to pop free a sticking toolholder. Hammering on the top of a conventional drawbar is the usual method, which doesn't seem to damage spindle bearings so far as I've been able to ascertain. A rap with a hammer vs. pressing hundreds of pounds with a hydraulic actuator. Perhaps they've beefed up spindle bearings in recent years as The actuator bottoms out internally after the tool releases, thus the max pressure that is placed onto the bearing is the same in either case. The max compression of the belville spring washer stack is constant, yes. The pressure will vary if a washer or two has failed, and again on no machine I have worked on was any of this force applied to the $800 spindle bearings. The actuators all floated and pushed down on the drawbar while effectively pulling against the flange on the spindle as opposed to being rigid mounted to the head casting and pushing down against the drawbar. This was dozens of different brands and models of machine. spindle speeds have increased so they can more readily handle the toolchange load. Or perhaps you haven't looked at the actuator closely enough since without looking at the prints it's not immediately obvious that the force is not applied to the bearings. No, it's immediately obvious from my having actually worked on them for going on 35 years now. Well, I worked on them as in serviced them for about 6 years, including changing out belville washers on the drawbars and replacing a few sets of spindle bearings, so there is no question that the machines I worked on then ('90-'96 or so) did not apply toolchange forces to the spindle bearings. Take a close look at the prints for one of your machines to see where the force is really being applied. |
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