There are millions of people who live in the Tornado belt. I want to
buy a Tornado warning device for my home. The National Weather service
delights in waking me up in the middle of the night if Tornado
conditions occur in the neighboring State. I want to install a device
on the roof of my house that listens for the characteristic sound of a
Tornado approaching on the ground.

Think about this problem because the solution could make you rich.

wrote:

There are millions of people who live in the Tornado belt. I want to
buy a Tornado warning device for my home. The National Weather service
delights in waking me up in the middle of the night if Tornado
conditions occur in the neighboring State.


Buy a better radio that only alerts for your area. Mine is a Midland
model.

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/nwr/nwrsame.htm

On 3/8/2013 5:57 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

wrote:

There are millions of people who live in the Tornado belt. I want to
buy a Tornado warning device for my home. The National Weather service
delights in waking me up in the middle of the night if Tornado
conditions occur in the neighboring State.


Buy a better radio that only alerts for your area. Mine is a Midland
model.

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/nwr/nwrsame.htm

In the "old days" one could mistune a TV set and detect tornadoes.



Tornados create an electrical disturbance somewhere in the 55 megahertz
range, close to the frequency band assigned to channel 2. With this
phenomenon in mind, Newton Weller, an electronics technician, has
devised the following method for using your TV set as a tornado warning
device.

Tune to channel 13 and turn the brightness control down to the point
where the image is nearly--not completely--black. Then turn to channel
2. Lightning will register as horizontal streaks on the screen. When the
picture becomes bright enough to be seen, or when the screen glows with
an even light, there's a tornado within 20 miles, and it's time to find
Toto and head for the basement.

Richard wrote:

On 3/8/2013 5:57 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

wrote:

There are millions of people who live in the Tornado belt. I want to
buy a Tornado warning device for my home. The National Weather service
delights in waking me up in the middle of the night if Tornado
conditions occur in the neighboring State.


Buy a better radio that only alerts for your area. Mine is a Midland
model.

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/nwr/nwrsame.htm

In the "old days" one could mistune a TV set and detect tornadoes.


Sometimes. You still didn't know the intensity, or headings though.


Tornados create an electrical disturbance somewhere in the 55 megahertz
range, close to the frequency band assigned to channel 2. With this
phenomenon in mind, Newton Weller, an electronics technician, has
devised the following method for using your TV set as a tornado warning
device.

Tune to channel 13 and turn the brightness control down to the point
where the image is nearly--not completely--black. Then turn to channel
2. Lightning will register as horizontal streaks on the screen. When the
picture becomes bright enough to be seen, or when the screen glows with
an even light, there's a tornado within 20 miles, and it's time to find
Toto and head for the basement.

On 3/8/2013 7:01 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Richard wrote:

On 3/8/2013 5:57 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

wrote:

There are millions of people who live in the Tornado belt. I want to
buy a Tornado warning device for my home. The National Weather service
delights in waking me up in the middle of the night if Tornado
conditions occur in the neighboring State.


Buy a better radio that only alerts for your area. Mine is a Midland
model.

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/nwr/nwrsame.htm

In the "old days" one could mistune a TV set and detect tornadoes.


Sometimes. You still didn't know the intensity, or headings though.


That didn't matter. If channel 2 went all streaky it was time to get
below ground!

"Richard" wrote in message
Tune to channel 13 and turn the brightness control down to the point
where the image is nearly--not completely--black. Then turn to
channel 2. Lightning will register as horizontal streaks on the
screen. When the picture becomes bright enough to be seen, or when
the screen glows with an even light, there's a tornado within 20
miles, and it's time to find Toto and head for the basement.


If that idea catches on someone could drive around with a milliwatt
transmitter broadcasting:


REPENT
THE END IS NEAR!

Richard wrote:

On 3/8/2013 7:01 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Richard wrote:

On 3/8/2013 5:57 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

wrote:

There are millions of people who live in the Tornado belt. I want to
buy a Tornado warning device for my home. The National Weather service
delights in waking me up in the middle of the night if Tornado
conditions occur in the neighboring State.


Buy a better radio that only alerts for your area. Mine is a Midland
model.

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/nwr/nwrsame.htm

In the "old days" one could mistune a TV set and detect tornadoes.


Sometimes. You still didn't know the intensity, or headings though.


That didn't matter. If channel 2 went all streaky it was time to get
below ground!


The backgound noise was so high in some areas that it didn't give
enough warning. Not everyone had a place to hide.

On 3/8/2013 7:01 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
....

Tune to channel 13 and turn the brightness control down to the point
where the image is nearly--not completely--black. Then turn to channel
2. Lightning will register as horizontal streaks on the screen. When the
picture becomes bright enough to be seen, or when the screen glows with
an even light, there's a tornado within 20 miles, ...

What makes you think that's even remotely likely to be so? Lightning
isn't at all necessarily indicative of tornadic activity--certainly
tornadoes are spawned from t-storms, but I'm pretty sure it's news to
the folks in Norman (NOAA severe weather office) there's predictive
capability in the lightning...

--

"dpb" wrote in message
...
On 3/8/2013 7:01 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
...

Tune to channel 13 and turn the brightness control down to the
point
where the image is nearly--not completely--black. Then turn to
channel
2. Lightning will register as horizontal streaks on the screen.
When the
picture becomes bright enough to be seen, or when the screen glows
with
an even light, there's a tornado within 20 miles, ...

What makes you think that's even remotely likely to be so?
Lightning isn't at all necessarily indicative of tornadic
activity--certainly tornadoes are spawned from t-storms, but I'm
pretty sure it's news to the folks in Norman (NOAA severe weather
office) there's predictive capability in the lightning...


We rarely have tornados but the idea of watching my spectrum analyzer
for lightning pulses sounds interesting. I put a scanner antenna on it
that receives 25 to 1300 MHz.

However the RF spectrum of lightning falls off far below Ch2, which
covers 54-60MHz:
http://www.stormwise.com/striking.htm
http://www.progettomem.it/appr_noise.php?id=5
When I was young I built a receiver and big loop antenna to listen to
sferics, tweeks and whistlers. Radiation from AC power lines drowned
out everything else unless I took it a few miles into the woods, which
is not a good place to be during a storm.

This is a commercial lightning indicator:
http://www.seaerospace.com/bfg/wx500pg.pdf

jsw

On Mar 7, 10:47*am, wrote:
There are millions of people who live in the Tornado belt. *I want to
buy a Tornado warning device for my home. The National Weather service
delights in waking me up in the middle of the night if Tornado
conditions occur in the neighboring State. I want to install a device
on the roof of my house that listens for the characteristic sound of a
Tornado approaching on the ground.

Think about this problem because the solution could make you rich.

Somebody apparently already has and invented something called "doppler
radar". "Doppler radar can tell when a thunderstorm has Tornado
Vortex Signature (TVS)" I doubt you could afford one, but you may be
able to make one of your own.

"While the NWS radars and some radars operated by television stations
have Doppler capability to show wind direction and speed, the images
are extremely complex and are much more difficult to understand than
reflectivity images. (Related: Doppler radar)" Hook echo's "... are
commonly found in a single thunderstorm, in which the reflectivity
image resembles a hook. When this occurs, the thunderstorm is
producing a circulation and possibly a tornado. The rain gets wrapped
around this circulation in the shape of a hook.

-- http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/weather/wearadar.htm

"Transition Zone" wrote in message
news:955542dd-0234-410f-a0ce-
-Somebody apparently already has and invented something called
"doppler
-radar". "Doppler radar can tell when a thunderstorm has Tornado
-Vortex Signature (TVS)" I doubt you could afford one, but you may be
-able to make one of your own.

In the 70's I built a low-powered Doppler radar for about $50; they
aren't very complicated. The diode detector's output is an audio tone
proportional to the speed of the target towards or away from you, so
the faster it moves the higher the pitch. Cop speed radars use the
principle. The ~200 MPH debris in a tornado would make it scream.
http://www.advancedreceiver.com/page31.html

It gave out a really strange Boioioingggg from the reflection off and
between the steel beams when driving under a bridge. It also triggered
every radar detector around and was fun to flash at passing speeders.

On 3/9/2013 1:10 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 3/8/2013 7:01 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
...

Tune to channel 13 and turn the brightness control down to the
point
where the image is nearly--not completely--black. Then turn to
channel
2. Lightning will register as horizontal streaks on the screen.
When the
picture becomes bright enough to be seen, or when the screen glows
with
an even light, there's a tornado within 20 miles, ...

What makes you think that's even remotely likely to be so?
Lightning isn't at all necessarily indicative of tornadic
activity--certainly tornadoes are spawned from t-storms, but I'm
pretty sure it's news to the folks in Norman (NOAA severe weather
office) there's predictive capability in the lightning...


We rarely have tornados but the idea of watching my spectrum analyzer
for lightning pulses sounds interesting. I put a scanner antenna on it
that receives 25 to 1300 MHz.

However the RF spectrum of lightning falls off far below Ch2, which
covers 54-60MHz:
http://www.stormwise.com/striking.htm
http://www.progettomem.it/appr_noise.php?id=5
When I was young I built a receiver and big loop antenna to listen to
sferics, tweeks and whistlers. Radiation from AC power lines drowned
out everything else unless I took it a few miles into the woods, which
is not a good place to be during a storm.

This is a commercial lightning indicator:
http://www.seaerospace.com/bfg/wx500pg.pdf

jsw




You are not looking for lightening!

Tornados create an electrical disturbance somewhere in the 55 megahertz
range, close to the frequency band assigned to channel 2.

With this phenomenon in mind, Newton Weller, an electronics technician,
has devised the following method for using your TV set as a tornado
warning device.

Tune to channel 13 and turn the brightness control down to the point
where the image is nearly--not completely--black. Then turn to channel 2.

Lightning will register as horizontal streaks on the screen.

When the picture becomes bright enough to be seen, or when the screen
glows with an even light, there's a tornado within 20 miles, and it's
time to find Toto and head for the basement.

On 3/9/2013 1:45 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Transition wrote in message
news:955542dd-0234-410f-a0ce-
-Somebody apparently already has and invented something called
"doppler
-radar". "Doppler radar can tell when a thunderstorm has Tornado
-Vortex Signature (TVS)" I doubt you could afford one, but you may be
-able to make one of your own.

In the 70's I built a low-powered Doppler radar for about $50; they
aren't very complicated. The diode detector's output is an audio tone
proportional to the speed of the target towards or away from you, so
the faster it moves the higher the pitch. Cop speed radars use the
principle. The ~200 MPH debris in a tornado would make it scream.
http://www.advancedreceiver.com/page31.html

It gave out a really strange Boioioingggg from the reflection off and
between the steel beams when driving under a bridge. It also triggered
every radar detector around and was fun to flash at passing speeders.




Pics (or schematics), or it didn't happen.

Weather doppler is a bit tougher.
THE air mass is not a steel structure.
And it's coming at you and going away at the same time and pretty much
same speed (by comparison).

dpb wrote:

On 3/8/2013 7:01 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
...

Tune to channel 13 and turn the brightness control down to the point
where the image is nearly--not completely--black. Then turn to channel
2. Lightning will register as horizontal streaks on the screen. When the
picture becomes bright enough to be seen, or when the screen glows with
an even light, there's a tornado within 20 miles, ...

What makes you think that's even remotely likely to be so? Lightning
isn't at all necessarily indicative of tornadic activity--certainly
tornadoes are spawned from t-storms, but I'm pretty sure it's news to
the folks in Norman (NOAA severe weather office) there's predictive
capability in the lightning...


I didn't write the quoted text.

Richard wrote:

On 3/9/2013 1:10 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 3/8/2013 7:01 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
...

Tune to channel 13 and turn the brightness control down to the
point
where the image is nearly--not completely--black. Then turn to
channel
2. Lightning will register as horizontal streaks on the screen.
When the
picture becomes bright enough to be seen, or when the screen glows
with
an even light, there's a tornado within 20 miles, ...

What makes you think that's even remotely likely to be so?
Lightning isn't at all necessarily indicative of tornadic
activity--certainly tornadoes are spawned from t-storms, but I'm
pretty sure it's news to the folks in Norman (NOAA severe weather
office) there's predictive capability in the lightning...


We rarely have tornados but the idea of watching my spectrum analyzer
for lightning pulses sounds interesting. I put a scanner antenna on it
that receives 25 to 1300 MHz.

However the RF spectrum of lightning falls off far below Ch2, which
covers 54-60MHz:
http://www.stormwise.com/striking.htm
http://www.progettomem.it/appr_noise.php?id=5
When I was young I built a receiver and big loop antenna to listen to
sferics, tweeks and whistlers. Radiation from AC power lines drowned
out everything else unless I took it a few miles into the woods, which
is not a good place to be during a storm.

This is a commercial lightning indicator:
http://www.seaerospace.com/bfg/wx500pg.pdf

jsw



You are not looking for lightening!

Tornados create an electrical disturbance somewhere in the 55 megahertz
range, close to the frequency band assigned to channel 2.

With this phenomenon in mind, Newton Weller, an electronics technician,
has devised the following method for using your TV set as a tornado
warning device.

Tune to channel 13 and turn the brightness control down to the point
where the image is nearly--not completely--black. Then turn to channel 2.

Lightning will register as horizontal streaks on the screen.

When the picture becomes bright enough to be seen, or when the screen
glows with an even light, there's a tornado within 20 miles, and it's
time to find Toto and head for the basement.



Hard do with a modern TV with a digital tuner. They look for sync on
analog channels, and the right type of data stream for digital.
Otherwise they display the blue screen of contempt.

"Richard" wrote in message
m...
On 3/9/2013 1:10 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
You are not looking for lightening!

Tornados create an electrical disturbance somewhere in the 55
megahertz range, close to the frequency band assigned to channel 2.


I've seen more elephants than tornados around here.

Another bit of information on the subject.

http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPl... 31&m=1267532

On 3/9/2013 6:21 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
....

I didn't write the quoted text.

Oops, sorry...not intended to get the wrong attribution, certainly.

--

On 3/9/2013 5:04 PM, Richard wrote:
On 3/9/2013 1:10 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...
....

What makes you think that's even remotely likely to be so?
Lightning isn't at all necessarily indicative of tornadic
activity--certainly tornadoes are spawned from t-storms, but I'm
pretty sure it's news to the folks in Norman (NOAA severe weather
office) there's predictive capability in the lightning...
....

You are not looking for lightening!

That's "lightning" that flashes in the sky; "lightening" would be to
make something less heavy or dark.

Tornados create an electrical disturbance somewhere in the 55 megahertz
range, close to the frequency band assigned to channel 2.

....

Well, I didn't believe it when you posted it earlier and I don't believe
it now...the only reference I could find quickly was from

Tornado Alley : Monster Storms of the Great Plains: Monster Storms of
the Great Plains by Howard B. Bluestein Professor of Meteorology,
University of Oklahoma

He quotes the same verbiage identically but adds the following sentence
at the end of that paragraph and begins the next with the following--

"I don't understand why this should be so and don't believe it works."

"Weller claimed this system works because channel 2 operates at 55 MHz
and is closest to the frequency of what he calls a "tornado pulse." It
is not clear if this is actually the case. ... Obviously, the Weller
technique does not always work, and one should probably depend on the
more reliable tornado warnings issued by TV stations..."

I conclude it's basically hokum, and of course, one must still have an
old analog receiver (and even I as the old fogey I am just abandoned the
one here when the audio portion died).

--

On Sat, 09 Mar 2013 17:07:25 -0600, Richard wrote:
On 3/9/2013 1:45 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Transition Zone" wrote ...
Somebody apparently already has and invented something called
"doppler-radar". "Doppler radar can tell when a thunderstorm has
Tornado-Vortex Signature (TVS)" I doubt you could afford one,
but you may be -able to make one of your own.

In the 70's I built a low-powered Doppler radar for about $50; they
aren't very complicated. The diode detector's output is an audio tone
proportional to the speed of the target towards or away from you, so
the faster it moves the higher the pitch. Cop speed radars use the
principle. The ~200 MPH debris in a tornado would make it scream.
http://www.advancedreceiver.com/page31.html

It gave out a really strange Boioioingggg from the reflection off and
between the steel beams when driving under a bridge. It also triggered
every radar detector around and was fun to flash at passing speeders.

Pics (or schematics), or it didn't happen.

http://www.dvice.com/archives/2012/07/make-your-own-d.php is an
example: "Make your own Doppler radar out of coffee cans". This one is
like a "radar gun" and as you note, "Weather doppler is a bit tougher".

Weather doppler is a bit tougher.
THE air mass is not a steel structure.
And it's coming at you and going away at the same time and pretty much
same speed (by comparison).


--
jiw

"James Waldby" wrote in message
...

http://www.dvice.com/archives/2012/07/make-your-own-d.php is an
example: "Make your own Doppler radar out of coffee cans". This one
is
like a "radar gun" and as you note, "Weather doppler is a bit
tougher".

Weather doppler is a bit tougher.
THE air mass is not a steel structure.
And it's coming at you and going away at the same time and pretty
much
same speed (by comparison).
jiw

If the NWS storm alert system used a digital, GPS-aware cellular radio
network like OnStar or ADS-B they could tag tornado warnings with the
projected track plus an estimate of uncertainty or DOP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilution_of_precision_(GPS)
so each receiver could respond only to nearby threats.

IOW the warning area could begin as a large circle when the tornado is
first detected, then converge to the area ahead of it as its path
becomes known. Al the receiver needs is a center point plus a radius
around it.

It's possible but hardly worth the effort for the current VHF FM
analog weather radios, though perhaps a good idea for a smart phone
app.
jsw

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
though perhaps a good idea for a smart phone app.
jsw


Here is one from the Red Cross:
http://www.redcross.org/mobile-apps/tornado-app

I don't have a smart phone and haven't studied the economic and social
ramifications of publishing your number or allowing everyone to track
you.
jsw

On Mar 9, 11:01*pm, dpb wrote:
On 3/9/2013 5:04 PM, Richard wrote: On 3/9/2013 1:10 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...

...

What makes you think that's even remotely likely to be so?
Lightning isn't at all necessarily indicative of tornadic
activity--certainly tornadoes are spawned from t-storms, but I'm
pretty sure it's news to the folks in Norman (NOAA severe weather
office) there's predictive capability in the lightning...

...

You are not looking for lightening!

That's "lightning" that flashes in the sky; "lightening" would be
to
make something less heavy or dark.

Is the pronunciation different?

"Transition Zone" wrote in message
...
On Mar 9, 11:01 pm, dpb wrote:
On 3/9/2013 5:04 PM, Richard wrote: On 3/9/2013 1:10 PM, Jim
Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...

...

What makes you think that's even remotely likely to be so?
Lightning isn't at all necessarily indicative of tornadic
activity--certainly tornadoes are spawned from t-storms, but I'm
pretty sure it's news to the folks in Norman (NOAA severe
weather
office) there's predictive capability in the lightning...

...

You are not looking for lightening!

That's "lightning" that flashes in the sky; "lightening" would be
to
make something less heavy or dark.

--Is the pronunciation different?

Did you finish grade school?

On 3/9/2013 9:01 PM, dpb wrote:
....

Tornados create an electrical disturbance somewhere in the 55 megahertz
range, close to the frequency band assigned to channel 2.

...

Well, I didn't believe it when you posted it earlier and I don't believe
it now...the only reference I could find quickly was from

Tornado Alley : Monster Storms of the Great Plains: Monster Storms of
the Great Plains by Howard B. Bluestein Professor of Meteorology,
University of Oklahoma

He quotes the same verbiage identically but adds the following sentence
at the end of that paragraph and begins the next with the following--

"I don't understand why this should be so and don't believe it works."

....

I conclude it's basically hokum, and of course, one must still have an
old analog receiver (and even I as the old fogey I am just abandoned the
one here when the audio portion died).
....

OK, w/o delving into the technical literature itself...

From the NOAA NSSL (National Severe Storms Laboratory) FAQ--

http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/education/svrwx101/tornadoes/faq/

Are there electromagnetic or magnetohydrodynamic explanations for the
development of tornadoes?
As far as scientists understand, tornadoes are formed and sustained
by a purely thermodynamic process. As a result, their research efforts
are towards that end. They have spent a lot of time modeling the
formation of a tornado and measuring many parameters in and around a
tornado when it is forming and going through its life cycle. They have
not seen any evidence to support magnetism or electricity playing a role.

Can my TV signal detect tornadoes?
You may have read about a technique called “the Weller Method” of
tornado detection. The idea was to be able to use your TV as a lightning
detector to detect the radio waves emitted by a lightning flash, with
the assumption that tornadic thunderstorms were very active lightning
producers. But, not all tornadic storms produce large amounts of
lightning. Also, TVs are all different and have different sensitivities,
and some are even made to filter out lightning signals. Plus, if you are
connected to cable, it won't work. The method was found to be completely
unreliable and it has mostly been abandoned.

--

On 3/11/2013 9:53 AM, dpb wrote:

I conclude it's basically hokum, and of course, one must still have an
old analog receiver (and even I as the old fogey I am just abandoned the
one here when the audio portion died).
...

OK, w/o delving into the technical literature itself...

From the NOAA NSSL (National Severe Storms Laboratory) FAQ--

http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/education/svrwx101/tornadoes/faq/

Are there electromagnetic or magnetohydrodynamic explanations for the
development of tornadoes?
As far as scientists understand, tornadoes are formed and sustained by a
purely thermodynamic process. As a result, their research efforts are
towards that end. They have spent a lot of time modeling the formation
of a tornado and measuring many parameters in and around a tornado when
it is forming and going through its life cycle. They have not seen any
evidence to support magnetism or electricity playing a role.

Can my TV signal detect tornadoes?
You may have read about a technique called “the Weller Method” of
tornado detection. The idea was to be able to use your TV as a lightning
detector to detect the radio waves emitted by a lightning flash, with
the assumption that tornadic thunderstorms were very active lightning
producers. But, not all tornadic storms produce large amounts of
lightning. Also, TVs are all different and have different sensitivities,
and some are even made to filter out lightning signals. Plus, if you are
connected to cable, it won't work. The method was found to be completely
unreliable and it has mostly been abandoned.

--

I'm not surprised at all.

As I said in my first response, "back in the old days"...
To me that was the early 1950s.

TV receivers varied wildly, but were a lot more sensitive than they are
today. They had to be to pick up a (by modern standards) weak signal
at any distance.

The "aerial" on the roof had to be turned at 6pm to pick up the
Honeymooners (Ozzie and Harriot hadn't show up yet) and turned back so
mom could watch I Love Lucy in the morning.

There was no weather channel, or much of a weather report even.
That came in the morning farm report.

People relied on Civil Defense radio channels (TWO of them!)
But you had to turn the (AM) radio on for that to work, and static
from a storm generally made for poor reception

It may be hard to imagine, but the local TV station signed off at 10 pm.
Played the national anthem and went to sleep.

The schools practiced "Duck and Cover", but that was in the event of
nuclear attack, not some crazed kid with a gun.

In those days, the TV tornado detector was well known and trusted.


For what it's worth...

On 3/11/2013 1:50 PM, Richard wrote:
On 3/11/2013 9:53 AM, dpb wrote:
....

From the NOAA NSSL (National Severe Storms Laboratory) FAQ--

http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/education/svrwx101/tornadoes/faq/

....

Can my TV signal detect tornadoes?
You may have read about a technique called “the Weller Method” of
tornado detection. The idea was to be able to use your TV as a lightning
detector to detect the radio waves emitted by a lightning flash, with
the assumption that tornadic thunderstorms were very active lightning
producers. But, not all tornadic storms produce large amounts of
lightning. Also, TVs are all different and have different sensitivities,
and some are even made to filter out lightning signals. Plus, if you are
connected to cable, it won't work. The method was found to be completely
unreliable and it has mostly been abandoned.

....

I'm not surprised at all.

As I said in my first response, "back in the old days"...
To me that was the early 1950s.

That's moderately recently for this old geezer...

TV receivers varied wildly, but were a lot more sensitive than they are
today. They had to be to pick up a (by modern standards) weak signal
at any distance.

The "aerial" on the roof had to be turned at 6pm to pick up the
Honeymooners (Ozzie and Harriot hadn't show up yet) and turned back so
mom could watch I Love Lucy in the morning.

There was no weather channel, or much of a weather report even.
That came in the morning farm report.

There was no antenna here at the farm until well into the late
'60s--there were no stations close enough to have any hope of picking up
prior to that. A group of repeaters were built at roughly that time
that rebroadcast the three networks within a range of from about 60 to
100 mi. At that time I was either at uni or had just left for first job
after school far from tornado country...about 1500 mi far.

People relied on Civil Defense radio channels (TWO of them!)
But you had to turn the (AM) radio on for that to work, and static
from a storm generally made for poor reception

Local AM then was the main w/ secondary being Dodge City but primarily
one knew what was going on and paid attention by having observed weather
for one's entire life since livelihood and occasionally life depended on
it (and, of course, out here, still does and still do pay attention
altho it's amazing how little some of the "townies" do seem to know now
as the town as grown to where it isn't all centered on production ag.)

It may be hard to imagine, but the local TV station signed off at 10 pm.
Played the national anthem and went to sleep.

Local still does--not hard to imagine at all. It is midnight, though.
Back then there was no local (and still isn't except for low power
local; the OTA which can receive are still the same three repeaters).

....

In those days, the TV tornado detector was well known and trusted.

First I ever heard of it -- then again, not having had a TV set it
wouldn't have mattered if had.

Whoever trusted it was a fool, though. Even then it was (or at least
should have been) pretty apparent to anybody who lived in tornado
country that there was/is far too much variability in individual
t-storms that do/don't spawn funnels to put much credence in something
that is in essence just a lightning detector.

....

--

On 3/11/2013 3:47 PM, dpb wrote:
On 3/11/2013 1:50 PM, Richard wrote:
On 3/11/2013 9:53 AM, dpb wrote:
...

From the NOAA NSSL (National Severe Storms Laboratory) FAQ--

http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/education/svrwx101/tornadoes/faq/

...

Can my TV signal detect tornadoes?
You may have read about a technique called “the Weller Method” of
tornado detection. The idea was to be able to use your TV as a lightning
detector to detect the radio waves emitted by a lightning flash, with
the assumption that tornadic thunderstorms were very active lightning
producers. But, not all tornadic storms produce large amounts of
lightning. Also, TVs are all different and have different sensitivities,
and some are even made to filter out lightning signals. Plus, if you are
connected to cable, it won't work. The method was found to be completely
unreliable and it has mostly been abandoned.

...

I'm not surprised at all.

As I said in my first response, "back in the old days"...
To me that was the early 1950s.

That's moderately recently for this old geezer...

TV receivers varied wildly, but were a lot more sensitive than they are
today. They had to be to pick up a (by modern standards) weak signal
at any distance.

The "aerial" on the roof had to be turned at 6pm to pick up the
Honeymooners (Ozzie and Harriot hadn't show up yet) and turned back so
mom could watch I Love Lucy in the morning.

There was no weather channel, or much of a weather report even.
That came in the morning farm report.

There was no antenna here at the farm until well into the late
'60s--there were no stations close enough to have any hope of picking up
prior to that. A group of repeaters were built at roughly that time that
rebroadcast the three networks within a range of from about 60 to 100
mi. At that time I was either at uni or had just left for first job
after school far from tornado country...about 1500 mi far.

People relied on Civil Defense radio channels (TWO of them!)
But you had to turn the (AM) radio on for that to work, and static
from a storm generally made for poor reception

Local AM then was the main w/ secondary being Dodge City but primarily
one knew what was going on and paid attention by having observed weather
for one's entire life since livelihood and occasionally life depended on
it (and, of course, out here, still does and still do pay attention
altho it's amazing how little some of the "townies" do seem to know now
as the town as grown to where it isn't all centered on production ag.)

It may be hard to imagine, but the local TV station signed off at 10 pm.
Played the national anthem and went to sleep.

Local still does--not hard to imagine at all. It is midnight, though.
Back then there was no local (and still isn't except for low power
local; the OTA which can receive are still the same three repeaters).

...

In those days, the TV tornado detector was well known and trusted.

First I ever heard of it -- then again, not having had a TV set it
wouldn't have mattered if had.

Whoever trusted it was a fool, though. Even then it was (or at least
should have been) pretty apparent to anybody who lived in tornado
country that there was/is far too much variability in individual
t-storms that do/don't spawn funnels to put much credence in something
that is in essence just a lightning detector.

...

--

It's not about lightening. Nobody here seems to catch that.

Tornadoes put out unexplained energy in the form of high frequency radio
waves in the 55 mhz (VHF) range. That just happens to coincide
with channel 2.


It HAS been documented to work... September 22, 1968
Orange City, Iowa?
http://www.motherearthnews.com/nature-community/tornado-chasing-zmaz71mjzsea.aspx

But in the end, it ain't Doppler radar, that's for sure.

On 3/11/2013 7:59 PM, Richard wrote:
On 3/11/2013 3:47 PM, dpb wrote:
On 3/11/2013 1:50 PM, Richard wrote:
On 3/11/2013 9:53 AM, dpb wrote:
...

From the NOAA NSSL (National Severe Storms Laboratory) FAQ--

http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/education/svrwx101/tornadoes/faq/

...

....

It's not about lightening. Nobody here seems to catch that.

That would be "lightning".

Tornadoes put out unexplained energy in the form of high frequency radio
waves in the 55 mhz (VHF) range. That just happens to coincide
with channel 2.

It HAS been documented to work...

Correlation is not causation -- that is, the occurrence of such intense
lightning discharges as to cause the noted effect when there happened to
be one tornado spawned doesn't imply the tornado caused it (nor that the
same wouldn't have happened absent the actual funnel).

....

So, it's nonsense...the NSSL link above observes that

"...The method was found to be completely unreliable ..."

and by pointing out that "... tornadoes are formed and sustained by a
purely thermodynamic process ... [and] have not seen any evidence to
support magnetism or electricity playing a role."

Give it up; it's bad science...Weller made up a convenient explanation
but there's no evidence to support his idea of a tornado electromagnetic
signature.

--

On 3/11/2013 9:52 PM, dpb wrote:

....

OK, I did go and look some...

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/oun/?n=events-19550525-stormelectricity

--

On 3/12/2013 11:20 AM, dpb wrote:
On 3/11/2013 9:52 PM, dpb wrote:

...

OK, I did go and look some...

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/oun/?n=events-19550525-stormelectricity

And, just to complete the loop, I found nothing indicating any recent
idea of the ~50 MHz "signature" being valid indicator of tornadic
activity but there is some relatively recent research that shows
indications of a very weak low frequency (1 Hz neighborhood)
electromagnetic component that appears generated from the various forms
of precipitation collisions within the rain shroud that has a frequency
that is correlated w/ the funnel size and rotational velocity as one
would expect something specifically related to tornadic activity should...

--