After someone slapped me in the head..reminding me that I own a fair
selection of pretty good machine tools...Ive decided to build my own
lube/sizer dies, to fit the (4) RCBS/Lyman lubricators I own.

I occasionally want to experiment with oversized bullets and at $30-35
each...plus shipping...it could get damned expensive..

Some interesting things that Ive found while investigating and
blueprinting the die body OD and ID...

If the lube sizer die is marked .311..the die actually is .310-3.105.
Ive checked this on at least 5 dies, of various manufactures..and its
always Smaller than whats marked. Id assumed..evidently
incorrectly..that casting lead didnt have any "spring to it"...IE..if
I squeeze it down to a half thousand or even a thousand (more on this
later)..the lead will spring back bigger than the size of the die.

I found that rather fascinating. Either the lead springs back...or
the manufactures used damned poor QC when building those dies.

I checked a range from .266 -.457..and the bigger luber dies ran as
much as .002 smaller than what was marked.. IE..a .455 gage pin was a
snug fit.

Anyone ever make their own lube sizer dies? Any links or data?

I also noted that the pusher pin in the center..typically was nothing
more than a dowel pin. And may be as much as .008 undersize. Im
trying to figure out why that is..other than "cheap". NOW I understand
why some of my bullet sizing/lubing sessions would have lube dripping
out the bottom of the lubricator press on my foot. Not a lot..but
some.

Anyone got any idea of why the tolerences are so freaking big? In this
day of cheap centerless grinders and whatnot...that should never
happen. I understand that bullet lube is pretty thick and it might
not squirt out of the die at the very low pressures we are putting on
it...but...blink blink...come on!!.....008"??????

Ill be making some dies...the way I THINK they should be made and post
the results here. I suspect we have been falling back on the High
Quality Standards of the several suppliers..and this may have some
bearing on inconsistant results Ive had over the years. Both in
accuracy..and bullet diameters from batch to batch.

Anyone have any comments, suggestions etc?

Gunner
The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Fri, 01 Mar 2013 20:02:32 -0800, Gunner
wrote:

After someone slapped me in the head..reminding me that I own a fair
selection of pretty good machine tools...Ive decided to build my own
lube/sizer dies, to fit the (4) RCBS/Lyman lubricators I own.

I occasionally want to experiment with oversized bullets and at $30-35
each...plus shipping...it could get damned expensive..

Some interesting things that Ive found while investigating and
blueprinting the die body OD and ID...

If the lube sizer die is marked .311..the die actually is .310-3.105.
Ive checked this on at least 5 dies, of various manufactures..and its
always Smaller than whats marked. Id assumed..evidently
incorrectly..that casting lead didnt have any "spring to it"...IE..if
I squeeze it down to a half thousand or even a thousand (more on this
later)..the lead will spring back bigger than the size of the die.

I found that rather fascinating. Either the lead springs back...or
the manufactures used damned poor QC when building those dies.

I checked a range from .266 -.457..and the bigger luber dies ran as
much as .002 smaller than what was marked.. IE..a .455 gage pin was a
snug fit.

Anyone ever make their own lube sizer dies? Any links or data?

I also noted that the pusher pin in the center..typically was nothing
more than a dowel pin. And may be as much as .008 undersize. Im
trying to figure out why that is..other than "cheap". NOW I understand
why some of my bullet sizing/lubing sessions would have lube dripping
out the bottom of the lubricator press on my foot. Not a lot..but
some.

Anyone got any idea of why the tolerences are so freaking big? In this
day of cheap centerless grinders and whatnot...that should never
happen. I understand that bullet lube is pretty thick and it might
not squirt out of the die at the very low pressures we are putting on
it...but...blink blink...come on!!.....008"??????

Ill be making some dies...the way I THINK they should be made and post
the results here. I suspect we have been falling back on the High
Quality Standards of the several suppliers..and this may have some
bearing on inconsistant results Ive had over the years. Both in
accuracy..and bullet diameters from batch to batch.

Anyone have any comments, suggestions etc?

Gunner

I suspect the reason is that cast lead bullets don't need to be that
accurate. Back in the days of Harry Pope, et al, they were shooting as
cast bullets and doing pretty well.

I also seem to recollect that lead bullets are upset, to some extent,
by the gas pressure and that proper size is more important when using
jacketed bullets then when using cast. Lyman, I believe recommends
0.001 - 0.002 over barrel diameter for lead bullets.

I would suspect that various batches of bullet metal might have a
large effect on bullet diameter though.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mar 1, 11:02*pm, Gunner wrote:

Anyone have any comments, suggestions etc?

Gunner

I do not think the lead is expanding after or while being sized.

So how are you measuring the hole in the die? I can remember reading
a long time ago that the size of barrels was checked by pushing a lead
ball thru the barrel and then measuring the lead ball.


Dan

On Sat, 2 Mar 2013 05:38:40 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Mar 1, 11:02*pm, Gunner wrote:

Anyone have any comments, suggestions etc?

Gunner

I do not think the lead is expanding after or while being sized.

So how are you measuring the hole in the die? I can remember reading
a long time ago that the size of barrels was checked by pushing a lead
ball thru the barrel and then measuring the lead ball.

By doing just that and by gage pin

Gunner



Dan



The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Mar 1, 9:02*pm, Gunner wrote:
After someone slapped me in the head..reminding me that I own a fair
selection of pretty good machine tools...Ive decided to build my own
lube/sizer dies, to fit the (4) RCBS/Lyman lubricators I own.

I occasionally want to experiment with oversized bullets and at $30-35
each...plus shipping...it could get damned expensive..

Some interesting things that Ive found while investigating and
blueprinting the die body OD and ID...

If the lube sizer die is marked *.311..the die actually is .310-3.105.
Ive checked this on at least 5 dies, of various manufactures..and its
always Smaller than whats marked. Id assumed..evidently
incorrectly..that casting lead didnt have any "spring to it"...IE..if
I squeeze it down to a half thousand or even a thousand (more on this
later)..the lead will spring back bigger than the size of the die.

I found that rather fascinating. * Either the lead springs back...or
the manufactures used damned poor QC when building those dies.

I checked a range from .266 -.457..and the bigger luber dies ran as
much as .002 smaller than what was marked.. *IE..a .455 gage pin was a
snug fit.

Anyone ever make their own lube sizer dies? *Any links or data?

I also noted that the pusher pin in the center..typically was nothing
more than a dowel pin. *And may be as much as .008 undersize. Im
trying to figure out why that is..other than "cheap". NOW I understand
why some of my bullet sizing/lubing *sessions would have lube dripping
out the bottom of the lubricator press on my foot. Not a lot..but
some.

Anyone got any idea of why the tolerences are so freaking big? In this
day of cheap centerless grinders and whatnot...that should never
happen. *I understand that bullet lube is pretty thick and it might
not squirt out of the die at the very low pressures we are putting on
it...but...blink blink...come on!!.....008"??????

Ill be making some dies...the way I THINK they should be made and post
the results here. *I suspect we have been falling back on the High
Quality Standards of the several suppliers..and this may have some
bearing on inconsistant results Ive had over the years. Both in
accuracy..and bullet diameters from batch to batch.

Anyone have any comments, suggestions etc?

Gunner

I know nuttin' about how-come, but here's a thought. Prior to their
present dizzying cost, gas checks were a cheap way of getting some
base protection and some additional velocity, particularly in .30, .44
and .45. Lead won't have spring-back, copper/brass sure does. So
might be your under-sizing dies were intended to produce gas-checked
bases of close to marked size. If you had some suitable .30 bullets
and the original-style Lyman/Ideal gas checks, you could find out.
Those would be the non-crimping sort with parallel walls. Now if
you'd use the same die for a plain-base bullet, it'd probably slug up
when fired. If it didn't do it far enough, the next step would be to
go to the next size up( or go to a gas checked bullet), more profit
for the Co., right?

Stan

On 3/1/2013 11:02 PM, Gunner wrote:

Ill be making some dies...the way I THINK they should be made and post
the results here. I suspect we have been falling back on the High
Quality Standards of the several suppliers..and this may have some
bearing on inconsistant results Ive had over the years. Both in
accuracy..and bullet diameters from batch to batch.

Anyone have any comments, suggestions etc?

Gunner


I await your data!

On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 15:30:10 -0800 (PST), Stanley Schaefer
wrote:

On Mar 1, 9:02*pm, Gunner wrote:
After someone slapped me in the head..reminding me that I own a fair
selection of pretty good machine tools...Ive decided to build my own
lube/sizer dies, to fit the (4) RCBS/Lyman lubricators I own.

I occasionally want to experiment with oversized bullets and at $30-35
each...plus shipping...it could get damned expensive..

Some interesting things that Ive found while investigating and
blueprinting the die body OD and ID...

If the lube sizer die is marked *.311..the die actually is .310-3.105.
Ive checked this on at least 5 dies, of various manufactures..and its
always Smaller than whats marked. Id assumed..evidently
incorrectly..that casting lead didnt have any "spring to it"...IE..if
I squeeze it down to a half thousand or even a thousand (more on this
later)..the lead will spring back bigger than the size of the die.

I found that rather fascinating. * Either the lead springs back...or
the manufactures used damned poor QC when building those dies.

I checked a range from .266 -.457..and the bigger luber dies ran as
much as .002 smaller than what was marked.. *IE..a .455 gage pin was a
snug fit.

Anyone ever make their own lube sizer dies? *Any links or data?

I also noted that the pusher pin in the center..typically was nothing
more than a dowel pin. *And may be as much as .008 undersize. Im
trying to figure out why that is..other than "cheap". NOW I understand
why some of my bullet sizing/lubing *sessions would have lube dripping
out the bottom of the lubricator press on my foot. Not a lot..but
some.

Anyone got any idea of why the tolerences are so freaking big? In this
day of cheap centerless grinders and whatnot...that should never
happen. *I understand that bullet lube is pretty thick and it might
not squirt out of the die at the very low pressures we are putting on
it...but...blink blink...come on!!.....008"??????

Ill be making some dies...the way I THINK they should be made and post
the results here. *I suspect we have been falling back on the High
Quality Standards of the several suppliers..and this may have some
bearing on inconsistant results Ive had over the years. Both in
accuracy..and bullet diameters from batch to batch.

Anyone have any comments, suggestions etc?

Gunner

I know nuttin' about how-come, but here's a thought. Prior to their
present dizzying cost, gas checks were a cheap way of getting some
base protection and some additional velocity, particularly in .30, .44
and .45. Lead won't have spring-back, copper/brass sure does. So
might be your under-sizing dies were intended to produce gas-checked
bases of close to marked size. If you had some suitable .30 bullets
and the original-style Lyman/Ideal gas checks, you could find out.
Those would be the non-crimping sort with parallel walls. Now if
you'd use the same die for a plain-base bullet, it'd probably slug up
when fired. If it didn't do it far enough, the next step would be to
go to the next size up( or go to a gas checked bullet), more profit
for the Co., right?

Stan


Something to think about indeed. Speaking of gas checks..seen the Do
it Yourself gas check makers?

http://www.freechex.net/

http://patmarlins.com


Lots of videos on YouTube on both of them.

And of course..there are lots of methods to making your own die sets

Ive played with both and before long, will have to invest in one or
the other. Shrug. Im down to 20k of various sizes and nearly out of
..30s

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie