"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Existential Angst wrote:


Exactly WHY was the 1974 54 hp beetle good enough then -- and good
enough
for 1/2 the driving world -- but it's **** now?
Can you imagine the mpg of that car, with a decent motor in it? I'm sure
we'd be talking 70 mpg with a pure ICE, and much higher with any
hybridization.
There was a guy a few years ago selling his Honda Insight (hybrid)
on eBay, and he had a picture of the dashboard display, I think it was 86
MPG averaged over the 130,000 miles on the car. This was a stock
production vehicle, although it was obvious he actually knew how to drive
it
for good economy.

Wow.... If it's true.
I was under the impression Honder wadn't doing too well with their
hybrids..... which doesn't mean it wadn't a good car. 86 mpg is right on
the heels of this 100 "MPGe" claimed by all-electrics.

As I mentioned, Prius c devotees are claiming 68 mpg with a light foot.
--
EA



Jon

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:44:09 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
m...
Existential Angst wrote:


Exactly WHY was the 1974 54 hp beetle good enough then -- and good
enough
for 1/2 the driving world -- but it's **** now?
Can you imagine the mpg of that car, with a decent motor in it? I'm sure
we'd be talking 70 mpg with a pure ICE, and much higher with any
hybridization.
There was a guy a few years ago selling his Honda Insight (hybrid)
on eBay, and he had a picture of the dashboard display, I think it was 86
MPG averaged over the 130,000 miles on the car. This was a stock
production vehicle, although it was obvious he actually knew how to drive
it
for good economy.

Wow.... If it's true.
I was under the impression Honder wadn't doing too well with their
hybrids..... which doesn't mean it wadn't a good car. 86 mpg is right on
the heels of this 100 "MPGe" claimed by all-electrics.

As I mentioned, Prius c devotees are claiming 68 mpg with a light foot.

Here's what you're looking for:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_1-litre_car

It's a VW, it burns dead-dino fuel, and it gets around 240 mpg.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:44:09 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
om...
Existential Angst wrote:


Exactly WHY was the 1974 54 hp beetle good enough then -- and good
enough
for 1/2 the driving world -- but it's **** now?
Can you imagine the mpg of that car, with a decent motor in it? I'm
sure
we'd be talking 70 mpg with a pure ICE, and much higher with any
hybridization.
There was a guy a few years ago selling his Honda Insight (hybrid)
on eBay, and he had a picture of the dashboard display, I think it was
86
MPG averaged over the 130,000 miles on the car. This was a stock
production vehicle, although it was obvious he actually knew how to
drive
it
for good economy.

Wow.... If it's true.
I was under the impression Honder wadn't doing too well with their
hybrids..... which doesn't mean it wadn't a good car. 86 mpg is right on
the heels of this 100 "MPGe" claimed by all-electrics.

As I mentioned, Prius c devotees are claiming 68 mpg with a light foot.

Here's what you're looking for:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_1-litre_car

It's a VW, it burns dead-dino fuel, and it gets around 240 mpg.

Holy ****.....

I hope Whoyakidding's cereal spoon is in his ass (as usual) when he reads
this, and not in his mouth, cuz iffin it's in his mouth, he just might
choke....
--
EA



--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:57:37 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:44:09 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
news:N4CdnY3o7JBs9bPMnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@giganews. com...
Existential Angst wrote:


Exactly WHY was the 1974 54 hp beetle good enough then -- and good
enough
for 1/2 the driving world -- but it's **** now?
Can you imagine the mpg of that car, with a decent motor in it? I'm
sure
we'd be talking 70 mpg with a pure ICE, and much higher with any
hybridization.
There was a guy a few years ago selling his Honda Insight (hybrid)
on eBay, and he had a picture of the dashboard display, I think it was
86
MPG averaged over the 130,000 miles on the car. This was a stock
production vehicle, although it was obvious he actually knew how to
drive
it
for good economy.

Wow.... If it's true.
I was under the impression Honder wadn't doing too well with their
hybrids..... which doesn't mean it wadn't a good car. 86 mpg is right on
the heels of this 100 "MPGe" claimed by all-electrics.

As I mentioned, Prius c devotees are claiming 68 mpg with a light foot.

Here's what you're looking for:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_1-litre_car

It's a VW, it burns dead-dino fuel, and it gets around 240 mpg.

Holy ****.....

I hope Whoyakidding's cereal spoon is in his ass (as usual) when he reads
this, and not in his mouth, cuz iffin it's in his mouth, he just might
choke...

It's a real car, BTW, although it's more of a design exercise than a
prototype. VW officials drive it around on the streets from time to
time. They say it's really fun.

They spent a lot of time on safety and they're confident it will meet
standards anywhere.

--
Ed Huntress

On Feb 27, 1:02*pm, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:57:37 -0500, "Existential Angst"









wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:44:09 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
news:N4CdnY3o7JBs9bPMnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@giganews. com...
Existential Angst wrote:

* *Exactly WHY was the 1974 54 hp beetle good enough then -- and good
* *enough
for 1/2 the driving world -- *but it's **** now?
Can you imagine the mpg of that car, with a decent motor in it? *I'm
sure
we'd be talking 70 mpg with a pure ICE, and much higher with any
hybridization.
There was a guy a few years ago selling his Honda Insight (hybrid)
on eBay, and he had a picture of the dashboard display, I think it was
86
MPG averaged over the 130,000 miles on the car. *This was a stock
production vehicle, although it was obvious he actually knew how to
drive
it
for good economy.

Wow.... * If it's true.
I was under the impression Honder wadn't doing too well with their
hybrids..... *which doesn't mean it wadn't a good car. *86 mpg is right on
the heels of this 100 "MPGe" claimed by all-electrics.

As I mentioned, Prius c devotees are claiming 68 mpg with a light foot..

Here's what you're looking for:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_1-litre_car

It's a VW, it burns dead-dino fuel, and it gets around 240 mpg.

Holy ****.....

I hope Whoyakidding's cereal spoon is in his ass (as usual) when he reads
this, and not in his mouth, cuz iffin it's in his mouth, he just might
choke...

It's a real car, BTW, although it's more of a design exercise than a
prototype. VW officials drive it around on the streets from time to
time. They say it's really fun.

They spent a lot of time on safety and they're confident it will meet
standards anywhere.

--
Ed Huntress

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...-debuts-geneva

"It's the physical representation of the benefits of reducing weight
and improving aerodynamics. The small body may only take two people,
but it's allowed for an incredibly streamlined body with a drag
coefficient of only 0.189.

Low weight--only 1,752 lbs--means only a small engine and electric
motor is needed to deliver respectable performance. Much of the car is
constructed from carbon fiber, aluminium and titanium.

VW says the car will do 261 mpg, though the real figure will be lower
than that should it ever be tested under EPA guidelines. Even so,
it'll still use comfortably less fuel than any vehicle currently on
sale.

A diesel engine of only 0.8 liters and 2 cylinders capacity produces
47 horsepower, with a further 27 horses delivered by the electric
motor. Power reache the wheels via a 7-speed dual-clutch gearbox.

Those figures sound miniscule by modern standards, but the XL1 should
reach 62 mph in12.7 seconds. Top speed is 98 mph.

Operating alone, the small battery can deliver up to 31 miles of
range, and can be charged via plug or regenerative effect.


The price you pay for being green...

The negative aspect to all this is cost. The XL1 is unlikely to be
built in large numbers, and What Car estimates a cost as high as
$100,000 or more.

Holger Boch, XL1 project leader, says "It's clearly going to cost a
lot more than a Golf - it's made of carbonfibre and has two engines.
The people who buy it will be people who like technology and who like
being seen in a low-CO2 car."

Thankfully, its drivetrain may be put to more practical use, in cars
like the VW Up city car.

Whether either of these will ever reach the U.S. is unclear, though
Volkswagen will reveal more details at the upcoming Geneva Motor Show."

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 13:23:08 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer
wrote:

On Feb 27, 1:02*pm, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:57:37 -0500, "Existential Angst"









wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:44:09 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
news:N4CdnY3o7JBs9bPMnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@giganews. com...
Existential Angst wrote:

* *Exactly WHY was the 1974 54 hp beetle good enough then -- and good
* *enough
for 1/2 the driving world -- *but it's **** now?
Can you imagine the mpg of that car, with a decent motor in it? *I'm
sure
we'd be talking 70 mpg with a pure ICE, and much higher with any
hybridization.
There was a guy a few years ago selling his Honda Insight (hybrid)
on eBay, and he had a picture of the dashboard display, I think it was
86
MPG averaged over the 130,000 miles on the car. *This was a stock
production vehicle, although it was obvious he actually knew how to
drive
it
for good economy.

Wow.... * If it's true.
I was under the impression Honder wadn't doing too well with their
hybrids..... *which doesn't mean it wadn't a good car. *86 mpg is right on
the heels of this 100 "MPGe" claimed by all-electrics.

As I mentioned, Prius c devotees are claiming 68 mpg with a light foot.

Here's what you're looking for:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_1-litre_car

It's a VW, it burns dead-dino fuel, and it gets around 240 mpg.

Holy ****.....

I hope Whoyakidding's cereal spoon is in his ass (as usual) when he reads
this, and not in his mouth, cuz iffin it's in his mouth, he just might
choke...

It's a real car, BTW, although it's more of a design exercise than a
prototype. VW officials drive it around on the streets from time to
time. They say it's really fun.

They spent a lot of time on safety and they're confident it will meet
standards anywhere.

--
Ed Huntress

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...-debuts-geneva

"It's the physical representation of the benefits of reducing weight
and improving aerodynamics. The small body may only take two people,
but it's allowed for an incredibly streamlined body with a drag
coefficient of only 0.189.

Low weight--only 1,752 lbs--means only a small engine and electric
motor is needed to deliver respectable performance. Much of the car is
constructed from carbon fiber, aluminium and titanium.

VW says the car will do 261 mpg, though the real figure will be lower
than that should it ever be tested under EPA guidelines. Even so,
it'll still use comfortably less fuel than any vehicle currently on
sale.

A diesel engine of only 0.8 liters and 2 cylinders capacity produces
47 horsepower, with a further 27 horses delivered by the electric
motor. Power reache the wheels via a 7-speed dual-clutch gearbox.

Those figures sound miniscule by modern standards, but the XL1 should
reach 62 mph in12.7 seconds. Top speed is 98 mph.

Operating alone, the small battery can deliver up to 31 miles of
range, and can be charged via plug or regenerative effect.


The price you pay for being green...

The negative aspect to all this is cost. The XL1 is unlikely to be
built in large numbers, and What Car estimates a cost as high as
$100,000 or more.

Holger Boch, XL1 project leader, says "It's clearly going to cost a
lot more than a Golf - it's made of carbonfibre and has two engines.
The people who buy it will be people who like technology and who like
being seen in a low-CO2 car."

Thankfully, its drivetrain may be put to more practical use, in cars
like the VW Up city car.

Whether either of these will ever reach the U.S. is unclear, though
Volkswagen will reveal more details at the upcoming Geneva Motor Show."

That's quite a development. VW has pushed all kinds of
extreme-efficiency experimental cars and prototypes, but this is one
that I'd really like to own.

'Too bad, though. It sounds like it will cost twice as much as a Lotus
Elise. Do I want a hot, sexy sports car that handles like a dream? Or
do I want a 47-horsepower diesel coupe that costs more than I paid for
my house? Decisions, decisions. For me, though, they're all dreams.

--
Ed Huntress

Existential Angst wrote:



Wow.... If it's true.
I was under the impression Honder wadn't doing too well with their
hybrids..... which doesn't mean it wadn't a good car. 86 mpg is right on
the heels of this 100 "MPGe" claimed by all-electrics.

As I mentioned, Prius c devotees are claiming 68 mpg with a light foot.
This was the original Insight, the teardrop-shaped 2-seater. A guy who
is known as "the king of the hyper-milers" (Wayne Gerdes) flew into town for
a competition on a prepared course, and did 168 MPG in a borrowed, stock,
insight. So, I tend to believe the guy selling his, too.

I have a Honda Civic Hybrid, and just had my hybrid battery replaced at 60K
miles. A LOT of people have had the same done, at Honda's expense. They
put too small a battery pack in the car, and it has no cell management
system, like some of the plug-in hybrids like the Volt. Not having cell
management allows the cells to get out of balance, and the weaker cells
discharge too much and eventually fail. The small size of the pack means
it gets too many deeper charge/discharge cycles in normal use, which ages
the pack faster. So, the Honda seems to have some problems, but the
manufacturer is standing behind it at their expense.

The Prius seems to do a good deal better with their battery packs, I have
hardly heard of any needing replacement. I don't think the Prius has
a cell management system, either, but they do have liquid cooling of
the pack and electronics. The Honda just has a couple fans. I get 42 MPG
in the winter with my wife driving it some of the time, over 50 in warmer
weather and no wife driving. I'm not complaining!

Jon

On Feb 27, 2:05*pm, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 13:23:08 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer









wrote:
On Feb 27, 1:02 pm, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:57:37 -0500, "Existential Angst"

wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:44:09 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
news:N4CdnY3o7JBs9bPMnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@giganews. com...
Existential Angst wrote:

Exactly WHY was the 1974 54 hp beetle good enough then -- and good
enough
for 1/2 the driving world -- but it's **** now?
Can you imagine the mpg of that car, with a decent motor in it? I'm
sure
we'd be talking 70 mpg with a pure ICE, and much higher with any
hybridization.
There was a guy a few years ago selling his Honda Insight (hybrid)
on eBay, and he had a picture of the dashboard display, I think it was
86
MPG averaged over the 130,000 miles on the car. This was a stock
production vehicle, although it was obvious he actually knew how to
drive
it
for good economy.

Wow.... If it's true.
I was under the impression Honder wadn't doing too well with their
hybrids..... which doesn't mean it wadn't a good car. 86 mpg is right on
the heels of this 100 "MPGe" claimed by all-electrics.

As I mentioned, Prius c devotees are claiming 68 mpg with a light foot.

Here's what you're looking for:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_1-litre_car

It's a VW, it burns dead-dino fuel, and it gets around 240 mpg.

Holy ****.....

I hope Whoyakidding's cereal spoon is in his ass (as usual) when he reads
this, and not in his mouth, cuz iffin it's in his mouth, he just might
choke...

It's a real car, BTW, although it's more of a design exercise than a
prototype. VW officials drive it around on the streets from time to
time. They say it's really fun.

They spent a lot of time on safety and they're confident it will meet
standards anywhere.

--
Ed Huntress

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...kswagen-xl1-pr...

"It's the physical representation of the benefits of reducing weight
and improving aerodynamics. The small body may only take two people,
but it's allowed for an incredibly streamlined body with a drag
coefficient of only 0.189.

Low weight--only 1,752 lbs--means only a small engine and electric
motor is needed to deliver respectable performance. Much of the car is
constructed from carbon fiber, aluminium and titanium.

VW says the car will do 261 mpg, though the real figure will be lower
than that should it ever be tested under EPA guidelines. Even so,
it'll still use comfortably less fuel than any vehicle currently on
sale.

A diesel engine of only 0.8 liters and 2 cylinders capacity produces
47 horsepower, with a further 27 horses delivered by the electric
motor. Power reache the wheels via a 7-speed dual-clutch gearbox.

Those figures sound miniscule by modern standards, but the XL1 should
reach 62 mph in12.7 seconds. Top speed is 98 mph.

Operating alone, the small battery can deliver up to 31 miles of
range, and can be charged via plug or regenerative effect.

The price you pay for being green...

The negative aspect to all this is cost. The XL1 is unlikely to be
built in large numbers, and What Car estimates a cost as high as
$100,000 or more.

Holger Boch, XL1 project leader, says "It's clearly going to cost a
lot more than a Golf - it's made of carbonfibre and has two engines.
The people who buy it will be people who like technology and who like
being seen in a low-CO2 car."

Thankfully, its drivetrain may be put to more practical use, in cars
like the VW Up city car.

Whether either of these will ever reach the U.S. is unclear, though
Volkswagen will reveal more details at the upcoming Geneva Motor Show."

That's quite a development. VW has pushed all kinds of
extreme-efficiency experimental cars and prototypes, but this is one
that I'd really like to own.

'Too bad, though. It sounds like it will cost twice as much as a Lotus
Elise. Do I want a hot, sexy sports car that handles like a dream? Or
do I want a 47-horsepower diesel coupe that costs more than I paid for
my house? Decisions, decisions. For me, though, they're all dreams.

--
Ed Huntress

AFAIC a lightweight car is the answer and is what's needed.

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:54:10 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:44:09 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
om...
Existential Angst wrote:


Exactly WHY was the 1974 54 hp beetle good enough then -- and good
enough
for 1/2 the driving world -- but it's **** now?
Can you imagine the mpg of that car, with a decent motor in it? I'm sure
we'd be talking 70 mpg with a pure ICE, and much higher with any
hybridization.
There was a guy a few years ago selling his Honda Insight (hybrid)
on eBay, and he had a picture of the dashboard display, I think it was 86
MPG averaged over the 130,000 miles on the car. This was a stock
production vehicle, although it was obvious he actually knew how to drive
it
for good economy.

Wow.... If it's true.
I was under the impression Honder wadn't doing too well with their
hybrids..... which doesn't mean it wadn't a good car. 86 mpg is right on
the heels of this 100 "MPGe" claimed by all-electrics.

As I mentioned, Prius c devotees are claiming 68 mpg with a light foot.

Here's what you're looking for:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_1-litre_car

It's a VW, it burns dead-dino fuel, and it gets around 240 mpg.

Yabbut does it have a gasoline fueled unheater and is your face
plastered against the windshield when you're driving it? When you rev
it up, does it make a sound that causes grown men to giggle? And above
all, how long a line of traffic can it lead up a hill?

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 16:02:16 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:57:37 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:44:09 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
news:N4CdnY3o7JBs9bPMnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@giganews .com...
Existential Angst wrote:


Exactly WHY was the 1974 54 hp beetle good enough then -- and good
enough
for 1/2 the driving world -- but it's **** now?
Can you imagine the mpg of that car, with a decent motor in it? I'm
sure
we'd be talking 70 mpg with a pure ICE, and much higher with any
hybridization.
There was a guy a few years ago selling his Honda Insight (hybrid)
on eBay, and he had a picture of the dashboard display, I think it was
86
MPG averaged over the 130,000 miles on the car. This was a stock
production vehicle, although it was obvious he actually knew how to
drive
it
for good economy.

Wow.... If it's true.
I was under the impression Honder wadn't doing too well with their
hybrids..... which doesn't mean it wadn't a good car. 86 mpg is right on
the heels of this 100 "MPGe" claimed by all-electrics.

As I mentioned, Prius c devotees are claiming 68 mpg with a light foot.

Here's what you're looking for:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_1-litre_car

It's a VW, it burns dead-dino fuel, and it gets around 240 mpg.

Holy ****.....

I hope Whoyakidding's cereal spoon is in his ass (as usual) when he reads
this, and not in his mouth, cuz iffin it's in his mouth, he just might
choke...

It's a real car, BTW, although it's more of a design exercise than a
prototype.

Right. And the first display was in '02. You know the problem with
these mind****ed car companies? They waste 11 years boning each other
up the poop chute when all they had to do was turn the first mule over
to RCM. Meanwhile the ****ing prototype only goes 98 mph! Gunner would
have it up to 300 before those gay queer homos at VW could pop open
their lube bottles. And it still weighs almost as much as a Beetle but
only seats half as many Bavarian beer swilling butt ****ers who'd need
to leave their lathes and pallets of cement at home. Peas out awl.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 07:07:41 -0800, whoyakidding's ghost
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:54:10 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 15:44:09 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
news:N4CdnY3o7JBs9bPMnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@giganews. com...
Existential Angst wrote:


Exactly WHY was the 1974 54 hp beetle good enough then -- and good
enough
for 1/2 the driving world -- but it's **** now?
Can you imagine the mpg of that car, with a decent motor in it? I'm sure
we'd be talking 70 mpg with a pure ICE, and much higher with any
hybridization.
There was a guy a few years ago selling his Honda Insight (hybrid)
on eBay, and he had a picture of the dashboard display, I think it was 86
MPG averaged over the 130,000 miles on the car. This was a stock
production vehicle, although it was obvious he actually knew how to drive
it
for good economy.

Wow.... If it's true.
I was under the impression Honder wadn't doing too well with their
hybrids..... which doesn't mean it wadn't a good car. 86 mpg is right on
the heels of this 100 "MPGe" claimed by all-electrics.

As I mentioned, Prius c devotees are claiming 68 mpg with a light foot.

Here's what you're looking for:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_1-litre_car

It's a VW, it burns dead-dino fuel, and it gets around 240 mpg.

Yabbut does it have a gasoline fueled unheater and is your face
plastered against the windshield when you're driving it? When you rev
it up, does it make a sound that causes grown men to giggle? And above
all, how long a line of traffic can it lead up a hill?

Hey, at 240 mpg, you can't have everything. g

The accounts I've read about driving the 1-liter say that the most
surprising thing about it is how normal and car-like it is.

I like the fore-and-aft seating. My camp counselor, about 1955, had a
Messerschmitt KR175 with the same configuration, and I used to love
riding in it. I wanted a button for the .50-cal, though...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_KR175

--
Ed Huntress