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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Hi voltage blues
The power to my shop runs on the high side. This has caused problems
with the spindle drive in one of my machines. Thanks to Paul Drahn I will have some transformers soon to rectify, oh wait, it's AC, so remedy is a better word choice, the power problem. In the meantime, with the 8 inch chuck on the lathe, the power keeps spiking past the limit and the lathe shuts down. So to lower the voltage I need to run the manual lathe and the Bridgeport mill. Sheesh! I won't be getting the transformers until the monday after Thanksgiving because of various reasons, none of which have to do with the kind transformer donor Paul Drahn or his son who lugged the things 1/12 hours closer to me. And even if I had them I'm too busy to take the time to shut the machine down to wire the voltage changers in. Fortunately all the power consumed by the extra motors running contributes to heating the shop so I can't complain too much. I just wanted to vent. And speaking of the word vent, when I was a child my brothers and I would look through encyclopedias at the pictures (artists conceptions) of dinosaurs. There would be descriptions printed by and on the pictures with arrows pointing to the descripted item. Eye, tail etc. We used to laugh at the arrow pointing to the anus because it always said "vent". So vent has always made myself and my brothers laugh. And we are all pretty close to 60 years old. Eric |
#2
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Hi voltage blues
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#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Hi voltage blues
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#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Hi voltage blues
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#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Hi voltage blues
If you have fluorescent lights in your shop,
turn them off and see if the VFD still trips out. Mine sometimes does with them on, doesn't with them off. I know it's clutching at straws, but it won't cost anything to try it. wrote: The power to my shop runs on the high side. This has caused problems with the spindle drive in one of my machines. Thanks to Paul Drahn I will have some transformers soon to rectify, oh wait, it's AC, so remedy is a better word choice, the power problem. In the meantime, with the 8 inch chuck on the lathe, the power keeps spiking past the limit and the lathe shuts down. So to lower the voltage I need to run the manual lathe and the Bridgeport mill. Sheesh! I won't be getting the transformers until the monday after Thanksgiving because of various reasons, none of which have to do with the kind transformer donor Paul Drahn or his son who lugged the things 1/12 hours closer to me. And even if I had them I'm too busy to take the time to shut the machine down to wire the voltage changers in. Fortunately all the power consumed by the extra motors running contributes to heating the shop so I can't complain too much. I just wanted to vent. And speaking of the word vent, when I was a child my brothers and I would look through encyclopedias at the pictures (artists conceptions) of dinosaurs. There would be descriptions printed by and on the pictures with arrows pointing to the descripted item. Eye, tail etc. We used to laugh at the arrow pointing to the anus because it always said "vent". So vent has always made myself and my brothers laugh. And we are all pretty close to 60 years old. Eric |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Hi voltage blues
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:57:42 -0800, Jim Stewart
wrote: If you have fluorescent lights in your shop, turn them off and see if the VFD still trips out. Mine sometimes does with them on, doesn't with them off. I know it's clutching at straws, but it won't cost anything to try it. I just tried your suggestion. Didn't work. I'm sure the problem is the voltage is too high. The VFD says the voltage is too high. The specs for the VFD say the voltage in my shop is too high. But it was worth a try. Of course, if it was the lights then I would have had to try to figure out a way to filter out the noise. I understand transformers better than filters. Eric wrote: The power to my shop runs on the high side. This has caused problems with the spindle drive in one of my machines. Thanks to Paul Drahn I will have some transformers soon to rectify, oh wait, it's AC, so remedy is a better word choice, the power problem. In the meantime, with the 8 inch chuck on the lathe, the power keeps spiking past the limit and the lathe shuts down. So to lower the voltage I need to run the manual lathe and the Bridgeport mill. Sheesh! I won't be getting the transformers until the monday after Thanksgiving because of various reasons, none of which have to do with the kind transformer donor Paul Drahn or his son who lugged the things 1/12 hours closer to me. And even if I had them I'm too busy to take the time to shut the machine down to wire the voltage changers in. Fortunately all the power consumed by the extra motors running contributes to heating the shop so I can't complain too much. I just wanted to vent. And speaking of the word vent, when I was a child my brothers and I would look through encyclopedias at the pictures (artists conceptions) of dinosaurs. There would be descriptions printed by and on the pictures with arrows pointing to the descripted item. Eye, tail etc. We used to laugh at the arrow pointing to the anus because it always said "vent". So vent has always made myself and my brothers laugh. And we are all pretty close to 60 years old. Eric |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Hi voltage blues
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:14:00 -0800, wrote:
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:57:42 -0800, Jim Stewart wrote: If you have fluorescent lights in your shop, turn them off and see if the VFD still trips out. Mine sometimes does with them on, doesn't with them off. I know it's clutching at straws, but it won't cost anything to try it. I just tried your suggestion. Didn't work. I'm sure the problem is the voltage is too high. The VFD says the voltage is too high. The specs for the VFD say the voltage in my shop is too high. But it was worth a try. Of course, if it was the lights then I would have had to try to figure out a way to filter out the noise. I understand transformers better than filters. Haven't you told your electric company of the problem and asked why they are oversupplying your electricity? They might be able to fix that for you with a call. Just cross your fingers. http://tinyurl.com/a3pmclx PG&E's statement for reference -- Good ideas alter the power balance in relationships, that is why good ideas are always initially resisted. Good ideas come with a heavy burden. Which is why so few people have them. So few people can handle it. -- Hugh Macleod |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Hi voltage blues
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:50:53 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:14:00 -0800, wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:57:42 -0800, Jim Stewart wrote: If you have fluorescent lights in your shop, turn them off and see if the VFD still trips out. Mine sometimes does with them on, doesn't with them off. I know it's clutching at straws, but it won't cost anything to try it. I just tried your suggestion. Didn't work. I'm sure the problem is the voltage is too high. The VFD says the voltage is too high. The specs for the VFD say the voltage in my shop is too high. But it was worth a try. Of course, if it was the lights then I would have had to try to figure out a way to filter out the noise. I understand transformers better than filters. Haven't you told your electric company of the problem and asked why they are oversupplying your electricity? They might be able to fix that for you with a call. Just cross your fingers. http://tinyurl.com/a3pmclx PG&E's statement for reference Unfortunately for me the voltage falls within the tolerance that the power company follows. It's really too bad that all my machines and all the controls have the ability to take the higher voltage. The only problem is the VFD inside one machine. I was able to change transformer taps and make adjustments to current sensing devices in the machine but the VFD was built to accept voltages no higher than 240 volts. Eric |
#10
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Hi voltage blues
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 09:06:27 -0800, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:50:53 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:14:00 -0800, wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:57:42 -0800, Jim Stewart wrote: If you have fluorescent lights in your shop, turn them off and see if the VFD still trips out. Mine sometimes does with them on, doesn't with them off. I know it's clutching at straws, but it won't cost anything to try it. I just tried your suggestion. Didn't work. I'm sure the problem is the voltage is too high. The VFD says the voltage is too high. The specs for the VFD say the voltage in my shop is too high. But it was worth a try. Of course, if it was the lights then I would have had to try to figure out a way to filter out the noise. I understand transformers better than filters. Haven't you told your electric company of the problem and asked why they are oversupplying your electricity? They might be able to fix that for you with a call. Just cross your fingers. http://tinyurl.com/a3pmclx PG&E's statement for reference Unfortunately for me the voltage falls within the tolerance that the power company follows. It's really too bad that all my machines and all the controls have the ability to take the higher voltage. The only problem is the VFD inside one machine. I was able to change transformer taps and make adjustments to current sensing devices in the machine but the VFD was built to accept voltages no higher than 240 volts. Eric One of my former employers made monitoring instruments that were installed in power generating plants. They used Sola transformers on the inputs to all instruments to condition the incredibly dirty power provided by the customers. you need to condition the power to the one sensitive device not everything. |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Hi voltage blues
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 09:06:27 -0800, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:50:53 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:14:00 -0800, wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:57:42 -0800, Jim Stewart wrote: If you have fluorescent lights in your shop, turn them off and see if the VFD still trips out. Mine sometimes does with them on, doesn't with them off. I know it's clutching at straws, but it won't cost anything to try it. I just tried your suggestion. Didn't work. I'm sure the problem is the voltage is too high. The VFD says the voltage is too high. The specs for the VFD say the voltage in my shop is too high. But it was worth a try. Of course, if it was the lights then I would have had to try to figure out a way to filter out the noise. I understand transformers better than filters. Haven't you told your electric company of the problem and asked why they are oversupplying your electricity? They might be able to fix that for you with a call. Just cross your fingers. http://tinyurl.com/a3pmclx PG&E's statement for reference Unfortunately for me the voltage falls within the tolerance that the power company follows. Bummer. It's really too bad that all my machines and all the controls have the ability to take the higher voltage. The only problem is the VFD inside one machine. I was able to change transformer taps and make adjustments to current sensing devices in the machine At least you didn't have problems with all your machines, although that would have made your BBxfmr decision a bit easier. but the VFD was built to accept voltages no higher than 240 volts. Have you talked with the mfgr of the VFD to see if the range can be widened within your unit? If not, I guess your only fix is to get a buck/boost xfmr and buck the power down to whatever the VFD is comfy with. Or you could turn on every other machine in the shop to see if it would load the circuit down a skosh. GD&R -- Good ideas alter the power balance in relationships, that is why good ideas are always initially resisted. Good ideas come with a heavy burden. Which is why so few people have them. So few people can handle it. -- Hugh Macleod |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Hi voltage blues
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 09:06:27 -0800, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:50:53 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:14:00 -0800, wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:57:42 -0800, Jim Stewart wrote: If you have fluorescent lights in your shop, turn them off and see if the VFD still trips out. Mine sometimes does with them on, doesn't with them off. I know it's clutching at straws, but it won't cost anything to try it. I just tried your suggestion. Didn't work. I'm sure the problem is the voltage is too high. The VFD says the voltage is too high. The specs for the VFD say the voltage in my shop is too high. But it was worth a try. Of course, if it was the lights then I would have had to try to figure out a way to filter out the noise. I understand transformers better than filters. Haven't you told your electric company of the problem and asked why they are oversupplying your electricity? They might be able to fix that for you with a call. Just cross your fingers. http://tinyurl.com/a3pmclx PG&E's statement for reference Unfortunately for me the voltage falls within the tolerance that the power company follows. It's really too bad that all my machines and all the controls have the ability to take the higher voltage. The only problem is the VFD inside one machine. I was able to change transformer taps and make adjustments to current sensing devices in the machine but the VFD was built to accept voltages no higher than 240 volts. Eric How about a bucking coil? Grab a transformer with a 240 volt primary and a 5 volt secondary, rated for your full device load. Connect the secondary in series with the load - one way will add 5 volts, the other will subtract 5 volts (buck boost). Run the primary off a Variac and you can adjust the amount of buck/boost you require. Dead simple, compact, and cheap. You don't need a transformer with a secondary capable of handling 240 volts at full load. |
#13
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Hi voltage blues
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 11:44:26 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 09:06:27 -0800, wrote: On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:50:53 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:14:00 -0800, wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:57:42 -0800, Jim Stewart wrote: If you have fluorescent lights in your shop, turn them off and see if the VFD still trips out. Mine sometimes does with them on, doesn't with them off. I know it's clutching at straws, but it won't cost anything to try it. I just tried your suggestion. Didn't work. I'm sure the problem is the voltage is too high. The VFD says the voltage is too high. The specs for the VFD say the voltage in my shop is too high. But it was worth a try. Of course, if it was the lights then I would have had to try to figure out a way to filter out the noise. I understand transformers better than filters. Haven't you told your electric company of the problem and asked why they are oversupplying your electricity? They might be able to fix that for you with a call. Just cross your fingers. http://tinyurl.com/a3pmclx PG&E's statement for reference Unfortunately for me the voltage falls within the tolerance that the power company follows. Bummer. It's really too bad that all my machines and all the controls have the ability to take the higher voltage. The only problem is the VFD inside one machine. I was able to change transformer taps and make adjustments to current sensing devices in the machine At least you didn't have problems with all your machines, although that would have made your BBxfmr decision a bit easier. but the VFD was built to accept voltages no higher than 240 volts. Have you talked with the mfgr of the VFD to see if the range can be widened within your unit? If not, I guess your only fix is to get a buck/boost xfmr and buck the power down to whatever the VFD is comfy with. Or you could turn on every other machine in the shop to see if it would load the circuit down a skosh. GD&R That's sorta what I'm doing now. I need to run at least 1 3 hp motor when using the collet on the lathe and when the 8 inch chuck is mounted I need 5 hp of idling motors. But I get the xmfrs Monday! I can hardly wait. Eric |
#14
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Hi voltage blues
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 14:45:00 -0500, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 09:06:27 -0800, wrote: On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:50:53 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:14:00 -0800, wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:57:42 -0800, Jim Stewart wrote: If you have fluorescent lights in your shop, turn them off and see if the VFD still trips out. Mine sometimes does with them on, doesn't with them off. I know it's clutching at straws, but it won't cost anything to try it. I just tried your suggestion. Didn't work. I'm sure the problem is the voltage is too high. The VFD says the voltage is too high. The specs for the VFD say the voltage in my shop is too high. But it was worth a try. Of course, if it was the lights then I would have had to try to figure out a way to filter out the noise. I understand transformers better than filters. Haven't you told your electric company of the problem and asked why they are oversupplying your electricity? They might be able to fix that for you with a call. Just cross your fingers. http://tinyurl.com/a3pmclx PG&E's statement for reference Unfortunately for me the voltage falls within the tolerance that the power company follows. It's really too bad that all my machines and all the controls have the ability to take the higher voltage. The only problem is the VFD inside one machine. I was able to change transformer taps and make adjustments to current sensing devices in the machine but the VFD was built to accept voltages no higher than 240 volts. Eric How about a bucking coil? Grab a transformer with a 240 volt primary and a 5 volt secondary, rated for your full device load. Connect the secondary in series with the load - one way will add 5 volts, the other will subtract 5 volts (buck boost). Run the primary off a Variac and you can adjust the amount of buck/boost you require. Dead simple, compact, and cheap. You don't need a transformer with a secondary capable of handling 240 volts at full load. I'm getting 3 buck/boost xmfrs Monday courtesy of Paul Drahn. Eric |
#15
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Hi voltage blues
SNIP
One of my former employers made monitoring instruments that were installed in power generating plants. They used Sola transformers on the inputs to all instruments to condition the incredibly dirty power provided by the customers. you need to condition the power to the one sensitive device not everything. That's the plan. I'll have the proper power conditioning devices Monday. |
#16
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Hi voltage blues
wrote: On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:50:53 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:14:00 -0800, wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:57:42 -0800, Jim Stewart wrote: If you have fluorescent lights in your shop, turn them off and see if the VFD still trips out. Mine sometimes does with them on, doesn't with them off. I know it's clutching at straws, but it won't cost anything to try it. I just tried your suggestion. Didn't work. I'm sure the problem is the voltage is too high. The VFD says the voltage is too high. The specs for the VFD say the voltage in my shop is too high. But it was worth a try. Of course, if it was the lights then I would have had to try to figure out a way to filter out the noise. I understand transformers better than filters. Haven't you told your electric company of the problem and asked why they are oversupplying your electricity? They might be able to fix that for you with a call. Just cross your fingers. http://tinyurl.com/a3pmclx PG&E's statement for reference Unfortunately for me the voltage falls within the tolerance that the power company follows. It's really too bad that all my machines and all the controls have the ability to take the higher voltage. The only problem is the VFD inside one machine. I was able to change transformer taps and make adjustments to current sensing devices in the machine but the VFD was built to accept voltages no higher than 240 volts. Eric With the relatively low cost of VFDs these days, replacing the VFD with a more tolerant model might be an option. |
#17
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Hi voltage blues
On Fri, 23 Nov 2012 19:37:26 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote: wrote: On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:50:53 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 09:14:00 -0800, wrote: On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 09:57:42 -0800, Jim Stewart wrote: If you have fluorescent lights in your shop, turn them off and see if the VFD still trips out. Mine sometimes does with them on, doesn't with them off. I know it's clutching at straws, but it won't cost anything to try it. I just tried your suggestion. Didn't work. I'm sure the problem is the voltage is too high. The VFD says the voltage is too high. The specs for the VFD say the voltage in my shop is too high. But it was worth a try. Of course, if it was the lights then I would have had to try to figure out a way to filter out the noise. I understand transformers better than filters. Haven't you told your electric company of the problem and asked why they are oversupplying your electricity? They might be able to fix that for you with a call. Just cross your fingers. http://tinyurl.com/a3pmclx PG&E's statement for reference Unfortunately for me the voltage falls within the tolerance that the power company follows. It's really too bad that all my machines and all the controls have the ability to take the higher voltage. The only problem is the VFD inside one machine. I was able to change transformer taps and make adjustments to current sensing devices in the machine but the VFD was built to accept voltages no higher than 240 volts. Eric With the relatively low cost of VFDs these days, replacing the VFD with a more tolerant model might be an option. Hopefully the buck transformers I'll be wiring in mext week will work. An 11 kw VFD won't be cheap. Eric |
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