On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 14:47:20 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 11:36:55 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 10/9/2012 2:45 AM, Gunner wrote:

Because this is a California problem. Our "special gasoline" is
blended differently during the summer months to "prevent pollution"
and is only changed to a more normal blend in late fall.

Gunner


Could it be the "Special Formulation" emits fumes that causes some
people to become radical leftists?

Shhh! They might make us use it year-round.

It's already the Liberal Literati's goal to drive fuel prices so high
we give up cars and take the bus everywhere - conveniently ignoring us
poor schlubs who have to drive a big heavy truck full of tools and
parts around to make a living.

I was thrilled to hear about more CNG/Gasoline Dual-Fuel trucks for
sale next year - then I heard it's going to be a $7,500 premium,
Diesel is only $4,000. And only 1/2 and 3/4 Ton sizes.

And then some Bright Boy will restrict the owners from using the Home
Refueling compressors ("PHILL") by saying "we can't control the
quality of the gas, so it will void your warranty..." which will
totally destroy the utility of the CNG - making you go to an
out-of-the-way refueling site and pay more for someone else to
compress it for you.

Doubles the price - it's like $1.50 a GGE if you do it yourself, $2.50
to $3 at the fill stations. And you have to go there to fill up - you
don't just disconnect the hose, hop in the truck and go to work.

Oh, and I didn't see anything about Cab-Chassis conversions, they want
to put the gas tanks in the bed.

-- Bruce --

Why not a gas/LPG setup? Gets you away from the high pressure CNG
tanks and associated apparatus. Conversion kits readily available,
quick change over from LPG to gasoline, or back. Been in use for years
and years.

--
Cheers,
John B.

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 07:49:46 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 14:47:20 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 11:36:55 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 10/9/2012 2:45 AM, Gunner wrote:

Because this is a California problem. Our "special gasoline" is
blended differently during the summer months to "prevent pollution"
and is only changed to a more normal blend in late fall.

Gunner


Could it be the "Special Formulation" emits fumes that causes some
people to become radical leftists?

Shhh! They might make us use it year-round.

It's already the Liberal Literati's goal to drive fuel prices so high
we give up cars and take the bus everywhere - conveniently ignoring us
poor schlubs who have to drive a big heavy truck full of tools and
parts around to make a living.

I was thrilled to hear about more CNG/Gasoline Dual-Fuel trucks for
sale next year - then I heard it's going to be a $7,500 premium,
Diesel is only $4,000. And only 1/2 and 3/4 Ton sizes.

And then some Bright Boy will restrict the owners from using the Home
Refueling compressors ("PHILL") by saying "we can't control the
quality of the gas, so it will void your warranty..." which will
totally destroy the utility of the CNG - making you go to an
out-of-the-way refueling site and pay more for someone else to
compress it for you.

Doubles the price - it's like $1.50 a GGE if you do it yourself, $2.50
to $3 at the fill stations. And you have to go there to fill up - you
don't just disconnect the hose, hop in the truck and go to work.

Oh, and I didn't see anything about Cab-Chassis conversions, they want
to put the gas tanks in the bed.

-- Bruce --

Why not a gas/LPG setup? Gets you away from the high pressure CNG
tanks and associated apparatus. Conversion kits readily available,
quick change over from LPG to gasoline, or back. Been in use for years
and years.

Propane prices are tied to gasoline and diesel prices to a point - If
they can't refine gasoline they can't separate out the Propane and
Butane fractions either.

And it's a much larger problem to fuel at home with Propane, and no
economic advantage - Natural Gas I get via a convenient pipeline going
right to the house, and as much as I need.

I suppose it would be better if I lived outside a large city and had
the Propane on site anyway, and used enough to make the delivery fees
worth it - but if I try it here, I have to apply for special permits
and approvals, and grease a lot of palms with inspection fees and
annual licenses...

-- Bruce --

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 01:18:41 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 07:49:46 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 14:47:20 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 11:36:55 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 10/9/2012 2:45 AM, Gunner wrote:

Because this is a California problem. Our "special gasoline" is
blended differently during the summer months to "prevent pollution"
and is only changed to a more normal blend in late fall.

Gunner


Could it be the "Special Formulation" emits fumes that causes some
people to become radical leftists?

Shhh! They might make us use it year-round.

It's already the Liberal Literati's goal to drive fuel prices so high
we give up cars and take the bus everywhere - conveniently ignoring us
poor schlubs who have to drive a big heavy truck full of tools and
parts around to make a living.

I was thrilled to hear about more CNG/Gasoline Dual-Fuel trucks for
sale next year - then I heard it's going to be a $7,500 premium,
Diesel is only $4,000. And only 1/2 and 3/4 Ton sizes.

And then some Bright Boy will restrict the owners from using the Home
Refueling compressors ("PHILL") by saying "we can't control the
quality of the gas, so it will void your warranty..." which will
totally destroy the utility of the CNG - making you go to an
out-of-the-way refueling site and pay more for someone else to
compress it for you.

Doubles the price - it's like $1.50 a GGE if you do it yourself, $2.50
to $3 at the fill stations. And you have to go there to fill up - you
don't just disconnect the hose, hop in the truck and go to work.

Oh, and I didn't see anything about Cab-Chassis conversions, they want
to put the gas tanks in the bed.

-- Bruce --

Why not a gas/LPG setup? Gets you away from the high pressure CNG
tanks and associated apparatus. Conversion kits readily available,
quick change over from LPG to gasoline, or back. Been in use for years
and years.

Propane prices are tied to gasoline and diesel prices to a point - If
they can't refine gasoline they can't separate out the Propane and
Butane fractions either.

That isn't wholly correct. Certainly there is a certain amount of
propane and butane that boil out of crude when it is processed but to
a large extent both propane and butane is a byproduct of treating gas
streams. If you are selling "lean gas", i.e., ethane and methane you
need to strip everything heavier out or you will raise havoc with your
customer's operations.

I don't know about the U.S. market but the E. Asian market is largely
driven by supply and demand for LPG.

And it's a much larger problem to fuel at home with Propane, and no
economic advantage - Natural Gas I get via a convenient pipeline going
right to the house, and as much as I need.

I suppose that you will need to compress it as I believe that vehicle
mounted CNG tanks are in the 3,000 psi range and I believe that
residential distribution systems are working in the inches of water
ranges, although I've never been in that side of the business.

I suppose it would be better if I lived outside a large city and had
the Propane on site anyway, and used enough to make the delivery fees
worth it - but if I try it here, I have to apply for special permits
and approvals, and grease a lot of palms with inspection fees and
annual licenses...

-- Bruce --

Here we have LPG filling stations pretty well all over the country and
a large number of LPG burning automobiles. For all practical purposes
you can say that all taxi's are now running LPG . In fact I'm not sure
that CNG systems for gasoline engines are even sold here as the LPG
systems are so popular.

As an aside, the first LPG burning automobiles I saw belonged to a
taxi company in Tachakawa, Japan in about 1955 :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 01:18:41 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 07:49:46 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 14:47:20 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 11:36:55 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 10/9/2012 2:45 AM, Gunner wrote:

Because this is a California problem. Our "special gasoline" is
blended differently during the summer months to "prevent pollution"
and is only changed to a more normal blend in late fall.

Gunner


Could it be the "Special Formulation" emits fumes that causes some
people to become radical leftists?

Shhh! They might make us use it year-round.

It's already the Liberal Literati's goal to drive fuel prices so high
we give up cars and take the bus everywhere - conveniently ignoring us
poor schlubs who have to drive a big heavy truck full of tools and
parts around to make a living.

I was thrilled to hear about more CNG/Gasoline Dual-Fuel trucks for
sale next year - then I heard it's going to be a $7,500 premium,
Diesel is only $4,000. And only 1/2 and 3/4 Ton sizes.

And then some Bright Boy will restrict the owners from using the Home
Refueling compressors ("PHILL") by saying "we can't control the
quality of the gas, so it will void your warranty..." which will
totally destroy the utility of the CNG - making you go to an
out-of-the-way refueling site and pay more for someone else to
compress it for you.

Doubles the price - it's like $1.50 a GGE if you do it yourself, $2.50
to $3 at the fill stations. And you have to go there to fill up - you
don't just disconnect the hose, hop in the truck and go to work.

Oh, and I didn't see anything about Cab-Chassis conversions, they want
to put the gas tanks in the bed.

-- Bruce --

Why not a gas/LPG setup? Gets you away from the high pressure CNG
tanks and associated apparatus. Conversion kits readily available,
quick change over from LPG to gasoline, or back. Been in use for years
and years.

Propane prices are tied to gasoline and diesel prices to a point - If
they can't refine gasoline they can't separate out the Propane and
Butane fractions either.

I just filled up my propane tank for my BBQ. It cost $7.56 for 4.7
gallons. That's a nice bit lower than gasoline, thankfully.

What gets me is the price of solvents. Alcohol, acetone, paint
thinner, and lacquer thinner are all $11-15 a freakin' gallon!


And it's a much larger problem to fuel at home with Propane, and no
economic advantage - Natural Gas I get via a convenient pipeline going
right to the house, and as much as I need.

I suppose it would be better if I lived outside a large city and had
the Propane on site anyway, and used enough to make the delivery fees
worth it - but if I try it here, I have to apply for special permits
and approvals, and grease a lot of palms with inspection fees and
annual licenses...

Really? I've been away from the propane scene for 10-3/4 years now
but there was never a delivery fee. They just came and topped it off
a few times a year, billing me only for gas used.

The permit thing is new, too. I understand that they're burying them
now for some reason, so maybe that's part of it. Excavation permits,
graft, other graft, etc.

Natural gas is quite a bit cheaper and I'm happier with it.

--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin

On 10/12/2012 7:03 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 01:18:41 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 07:49:46 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 14:47:20 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 11:36:55 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 10/9/2012 2:45 AM, Gunner wrote:

Because this is a California problem. Our "special gasoline" is
blended differently during the summer months to "prevent pollution"
and is only changed to a more normal blend in late fall.

Gunner


Could it be the "Special Formulation" emits fumes that causes some
people to become radical leftists?

Shhh! They might make us use it year-round.

It's already the Liberal Literati's goal to drive fuel prices so high
we give up cars and take the bus everywhere - conveniently ignoring us
poor schlubs who have to drive a big heavy truck full of tools and
parts around to make a living.

I was thrilled to hear about more CNG/Gasoline Dual-Fuel trucks for
sale next year - then I heard it's going to be a $7,500 premium,
Diesel is only $4,000. And only 1/2 and 3/4 Ton sizes.

And then some Bright Boy will restrict the owners from using the Home
Refueling compressors ("PHILL") by saying "we can't control the
quality of the gas, so it will void your warranty..." which will
totally destroy the utility of the CNG - making you go to an
out-of-the-way refueling site and pay more for someone else to
compress it for you.

Doubles the price - it's like $1.50 a GGE if you do it yourself, $2.50
to $3 at the fill stations. And you have to go there to fill up - you
don't just disconnect the hose, hop in the truck and go to work.

Oh, and I didn't see anything about Cab-Chassis conversions, they want
to put the gas tanks in the bed.

-- Bruce --

Why not a gas/LPG setup? Gets you away from the high pressure CNG
tanks and associated apparatus. Conversion kits readily available,
quick change over from LPG to gasoline, or back. Been in use for years
and years.

Propane prices are tied to gasoline and diesel prices to a point - If
they can't refine gasoline they can't separate out the Propane and
Butane fractions either.

I just filled up my propane tank for my BBQ. It cost $7.56 for 4.7
gallons. That's a nice bit lower than gasoline, thankfully.

What gets me is the price of solvents. Alcohol, acetone, paint
thinner, and lacquer thinner are all $11-15 a freakin' gallon!


And it's a much larger problem to fuel at home with Propane, and no
economic advantage - Natural Gas I get via a convenient pipeline going
right to the house, and as much as I need.

I suppose it would be better if I lived outside a large city and had
the Propane on site anyway, and used enough to make the delivery fees
worth it - but if I try it here, I have to apply for special permits
and approvals, and grease a lot of palms with inspection fees and
annual licenses...

Really? I've been away from the propane scene for 10-3/4 years now
but there was never a delivery fee. They just came and topped it off
a few times a year, billing me only for gas used.

The permit thing is new, too. I understand that they're burying them
now for some reason, so maybe that's part of it. Excavation permits,
graft, other graft, etc.

Natural gas is quite a bit cheaper and I'm happier with it.

--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin


What gunner and the other guys who want to use home natural gas are
trying to do is to cheat the public by not paying the road use taxes
that come with using commercially supplied fuel - you see, the
conservatives figured out that the guys who use the road more should pay
more, so they did this with gas tax (more gas = more use, so pay more) -
makes sense until one of these nut jobs decides that it's time to cheat
and make everybody else pay for them and to again get a free ride. Now,
if they actually paid the tax, using your own gas would be fine, but
does anybody want to bet that these guys won't pay the tax if they can
get away with it?


--
For a $5 dollar donation today you get credit for $10 with HIM

On Oct 13, 1:32*am, a friend
wrote:

What gunner and the other guys who want to use home natural gas are
trying to do is to cheat the public by not paying the road use taxes
that come with using commercially supplied fuel -

That is part of the attraction of plug in electric cars.

Dan

On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 04:46:25 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 13, 1:32*am, a friend
wrote:

What gunner and the other guys who want to use home natural gas are
trying to do is to cheat the public by not paying the road use taxes
that come with using commercially supplied fuel -

That is part of the attraction of plug in electric cars.

Why the hell not get a tax break on it?

The owner of that electric or CNG car just spent a *lot* of money to
be able to use the alternate fuel and to cut their emissions way down.
At a minimum, $10,000 /per vehicle/ between the vehicle's gas tanks
controls and operating gear, and the refueling equipment at its home
base. Or for electrics and hybrids, at least the same in batteries
controls and chargers.

For that large an up-front investment, there needs to be a long-term
payback, or nobody will do it.

Now I could see them tracking the electricity and NG usage (separate
metering) and charging the Road Taxes at a reasonable and equivalent
rate if the overall price benefits are still there - but government
has NEVER been known to stop at a 'reasonable' rate when they smell
money for the taking - the citizens often have to stop them.

If they take their usual path and tax it heavier than gasoline
"because they can, the base price is lower and is an unfair advantage"
to try and make an income stream, they kill the Golden Goose.

-- Bruce --

On 10/13/2012 9:10 AM, Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable) wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 04:46:25 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 13, 1:32 am, a friend
wrote:

What gunner and the other guys who want to use home natural gas are
trying to do is to cheat the public by not paying the road use taxes
that come with using commercially supplied fuel -

That is part of the attraction of plug in electric cars.

Why the hell not get a tax break on it?

The owner of that electric or CNG car just spent a *lot* of money to
be able to use the alternate fuel and to cut their emissions way down.
At a minimum, $10,000 /per vehicle/ between the vehicle's gas tanks
controls and operating gear, and the refueling equipment at its home
base. Or for electrics and hybrids, at least the same in batteries
controls and chargers.

For that large an up-front investment, there needs to be a long-term
payback, or nobody will do it.

Now I could see them tracking the electricity and NG usage (separate
metering) and charging the Road Taxes at a reasonable and equivalent
rate if the overall price benefits are still there - but government
has NEVER been known to stop at a 'reasonable' rate when they smell
money for the taking - the citizens often have to stop them.

If they take their usual path and tax it heavier than gasoline
"because they can, the base price is lower and is an unfair advantage"
to try and make an income stream, they kill the Golden Goose.

-- Bruce --


the point is that gunner and those who do this illegally are stealing
from the rest of us - he, specifically, rants against all sorts of
things, and then goes to do it himself. If there was legal acceptance,
as there is for electric cars, then I would be totally fine with it,
however, there is no such thing.

--
For a $5 dollar donation today you get credit for $10 with HIM

On Oct 13, 12:57*pm, a friend
wrote:


the point is that gunner and those who do this illegally are stealing
from the rest of us - he, specifically, rants against all sorts of
things, and then goes to do it himself. *If there was legal acceptance,
as there is for electric cars, then I would be totally fine with it,
however, there is no such thing.


Please let us know the laws that are being broken. Are they state or
federal laws?

Dan

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 22:32:08 -0700, a friend
wrote:

On 10/12/2012 7:03 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 01:18:41 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 07:49:46 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 14:47:20 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Tue, 09 Oct 2012 11:36:55 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 10/9/2012 2:45 AM, Gunner wrote:

Because this is a California problem. Our "special gasoline" is
blended differently during the summer months to "prevent pollution"
and is only changed to a more normal blend in late fall.

Gunner


Could it be the "Special Formulation" emits fumes that causes some
people to become radical leftists?

Shhh! They might make us use it year-round.

It's already the Liberal Literati's goal to drive fuel prices so high
we give up cars and take the bus everywhere - conveniently ignoring us
poor schlubs who have to drive a big heavy truck full of tools and
parts around to make a living.

I was thrilled to hear about more CNG/Gasoline Dual-Fuel trucks for
sale next year - then I heard it's going to be a $7,500 premium,
Diesel is only $4,000. And only 1/2 and 3/4 Ton sizes.

And then some Bright Boy will restrict the owners from using the Home
Refueling compressors ("PHILL") by saying "we can't control the
quality of the gas, so it will void your warranty..." which will
totally destroy the utility of the CNG - making you go to an
out-of-the-way refueling site and pay more for someone else to
compress it for you.

Doubles the price - it's like $1.50 a GGE if you do it yourself, $2.50
to $3 at the fill stations. And you have to go there to fill up - you
don't just disconnect the hose, hop in the truck and go to work.

Oh, and I didn't see anything about Cab-Chassis conversions, they want
to put the gas tanks in the bed.

-- Bruce --

Why not a gas/LPG setup? Gets you away from the high pressure CNG
tanks and associated apparatus. Conversion kits readily available,
quick change over from LPG to gasoline, or back. Been in use for years
and years.

Propane prices are tied to gasoline and diesel prices to a point - If
they can't refine gasoline they can't separate out the Propane and
Butane fractions either.

I just filled up my propane tank for my BBQ. It cost $7.56 for 4.7
gallons. That's a nice bit lower than gasoline, thankfully.

What gets me is the price of solvents. Alcohol, acetone, paint
thinner, and lacquer thinner are all $11-15 a freakin' gallon!


And it's a much larger problem to fuel at home with Propane, and no
economic advantage - Natural Gas I get via a convenient pipeline going
right to the house, and as much as I need.

I suppose it would be better if I lived outside a large city and had
the Propane on site anyway, and used enough to make the delivery fees
worth it - but if I try it here, I have to apply for special permits
and approvals, and grease a lot of palms with inspection fees and
annual licenses...

Really? I've been away from the propane scene for 10-3/4 years now
but there was never a delivery fee. They just came and topped it off
a few times a year, billing me only for gas used.

The permit thing is new, too. I understand that they're burying them
now for some reason, so maybe that's part of it. Excavation permits,
graft, other graft, etc.

Natural gas is quite a bit cheaper and I'm happier with it.

--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin


What gunner and the other guys who want to use home natural gas are
trying to do is to cheat the public by not paying the road use taxes
that come with using commercially supplied fuel - you see, the
conservatives figured out that the guys who use the road more should pay
more, so they did this with gas tax (more gas = more use, so pay more) -
makes sense until one of these nut jobs decides that it's time to cheat
and make everybody else pay for them and to again get a free ride. Now,
if they actually paid the tax, using your own gas would be fine, but
does anybody want to bet that these guys won't pay the tax if they can
get away with it?

What Gunner and the other guys do?

What other guys? And where in the world did you manage to get road use
taxes from my post about California's special blending of fuel?

You are a Leftwinger of course, and off your meds once again..or
rather...still off your meds.

I hope they hang you for a week, letting the crows peck out your eyes
and then dump you in the bottom of a mass grave with a bunch of
Klanners on top of you to keep your ass all warm and cuddled for
eternity.


"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered
by an occasional assassination." --Voltaire

On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 09:57:04 -0700, a friend
wrote:

On 10/13/2012 9:10 AM, Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable) wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 04:46:25 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 13, 1:32 am, a friend
wrote:

What gunner and the other guys who want to use home natural gas are
trying to do is to cheat the public by not paying the road use taxes
that come with using commercially supplied fuel -

That is part of the attraction of plug in electric cars.

Why the hell not get a tax break on it?

The owner of that electric or CNG car just spent a *lot* of money to
be able to use the alternate fuel and to cut their emissions way down.
At a minimum, $10,000 /per vehicle/ between the vehicle's gas tanks
controls and operating gear, and the refueling equipment at its home
base. Or for electrics and hybrids, at least the same in batteries
controls and chargers.

For that large an up-front investment, there needs to be a long-term
payback, or nobody will do it.

Now I could see them tracking the electricity and NG usage (separate
metering) and charging the Road Taxes at a reasonable and equivalent
rate if the overall price benefits are still there - but government
has NEVER been known to stop at a 'reasonable' rate when they smell
money for the taking - the citizens often have to stop them.

If they take their usual path and tax it heavier than gasoline
"because they can, the base price is lower and is an unfair advantage"
to try and make an income stream, they kill the Golden Goose.

-- Bruce --


the point is that gunner and those who do this illegally are stealing
from the rest of us - he, specifically, rants against all sorts of
things, and then goes to do it himself. If there was legal acceptance,
as there is for electric cars, then I would be totally fine with it,
however, there is no such thing.

Does what illegally? Reports that California has a special blend of
fuel for the summer time?

Gunner
"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered
by an occasional assassination." --Voltaire

On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 09:57:04 -0700, a friend
wrote:

On 10/13/2012 9:10 AM, Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable) wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2012 04:46:25 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 13, 1:32 am, a friend
wrote:

What gunner and the other guys who want to use home natural gas are
trying to do is to cheat the public by not paying the road use taxes
that come with using commercially supplied fuel -

That is part of the attraction of plug in electric cars.

Why the hell not get a tax break on it?

The owner of that electric or CNG car just spent a *lot* of money to
be able to use the alternate fuel and to cut their emissions way down.
At a minimum, $10,000 /per vehicle/ between the vehicle's gas tanks
controls and operating gear, and the refueling equipment at its home
base. Or for electrics and hybrids, at least the same in batteries
controls and chargers.

For that large an up-front investment, there needs to be a long-term
payback, or nobody will do it.

Now I could see them tracking the electricity and NG usage (separate
metering) and charging the Road Taxes at a reasonable and equivalent
rate if the overall price benefits are still there - but government
has NEVER been known to stop at a 'reasonable' rate when they smell
money for the taking - the citizens often have to stop them.

If they take their usual path and tax it heavier than gasoline
"because they can, the base price is lower and is an unfair advantage"
to try and make an income stream, they kill the Golden Goose.

-- Bruce --


the point is that gunner and those who do this illegally are stealing
from the rest of us - he, specifically, rants against all sorts of
things, and then goes to do it himself. If there was legal acceptance,
as there is for electric cars, then I would be totally fine with it,
however, there is no such thing.

Excuse me, please tell us exactly what Gunner's doing that is illegal?
And be clear about your exact charges and what you have for proof of
this wrongdoing. Take as much white space as you need, we can always
inconvenience more electrons to transmit it.

And be sure to include your real name and full legal address, we'll
need someplace to send the Process Server with the Libel summons. I
already know Gunner's, he chooses not to use it here for personal
reasons, and I respect that.

Talk about going off Half-Cocked - you've managed to do it on several
levels at once...

Gunner isn't cheating on fuel taxes, his trucks are all Gasoline
powered and he pays the fuel taxes at the pump just like everybody
else - except for the E-350 Van that has the factory Navistar diesel,
and that's taxed at the pump too. And I'm stuck with all Gasoline
vehicles too - wouldn't be economical to get the conversion kits for
older Fuel Injected vehicles.

And there is a program in place to collect Use Taxes for Propane, CNG
and LNG vehicles already. And passenger car and light truck users can
get a reasonable Flat Rate permit - $36 a year for all passenger
cars and other vehicles 4,000 pounds and under unladen. Small trucks
4001 to 8000 pounds are $72 a year.
http://www.boe.ca.gov/pdf/pub12.pdf

When you get into 3/4 Ton (8001 to 12,000-pounds unladen $120 a year)
and 1-Ton (12,001+ pounds unladen $168 a year) trucks it starts
getting expensive to go Flat Rate, if the truck is lightly used you'd
want the option to go by the mile.

Electric cars they dont have a way to collect road use taxes - YET.
Already in the "How can we do it?" stages.

-- Bruce --