I feel the need to knurl.

Busy Bee has a bunch of knurling tools on sale. I have a 9x20 lathe so
I suspect only the clamping type with 3/8" shank comes into play.

Can anyone comment on the available selection? What to look for? What
to ask about?

http://www.busybeetools.com/categori...nurling-Tools/

Thanks,

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Thu, 31 May 2012 21:26:49 -0700, wrote:

I feel the need to knurl.

Busy Bee has a bunch of knurling tools on sale. I have a 9x20 lathe so
I suspect only the clamping type with 3/8" shank comes into play.

Can anyone comment on the available selection? What to look for? What
to ask about?

http://www.busybeetools.com/categori...nurling-Tools/

Thanks,

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

i had nothing but poor results with knurling till I scored a high
quality scissor type tool. These offers look wimpy to me. I'd suggest
trolling eBay for a bit beefier one.

The trick to knurling is to knurl completely to depth in one pass,
this takes a lot of force and has to be rigid.

wrote in message
...
I feel the need to knurl.

Busy Bee has a bunch of knurling tools on sale. I have a 9x20 lathe
so
I suspect only the clamping type with 3/8" shank comes into play.

Can anyone comment on the available selection? What to look for?
What
to ask about?

http://www.busybeetools.com/categori...nurling-Tools/

Thanks,

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

I have a cheap version of the scissors or clamping type. It took some
fine tuning and tightening up to make it work well enough. When it
runs over center it lifts the far side of the carriage.

Sometimes I get better results by starting with only a slight overlap
at the end of the work, to allow the knurls to bite in more easily,
then feeding across. The center joint has to be carefully tightened
for this so the arms don't deflect and twist the knurls.

I think the work circumference has to be an integer multiple of the
knurl pitch. The knurls on mine are 3/4" in diameter and have 48
teeth, equivalent to a 1" knurl with 64 teeth, or a 64DP gear. They
should(?) track on any diameter that comes out even in N/64ths of an
inch, and possibly the metric ones that nearly match like 8, 11, 14,
19mm.

Successfully knurled 12L14:
https://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/...20861185879138
More often one knurl doesn't track. The simple fix is to leave extra
length to experiment.

jsw

On Thu, 31 May 2012 21:26:49 -0700, mkoblic wrote:

I feel the need to knurl.

Busy Bee has a bunch of knurling tools on sale. I have a 9x20 lathe so I
suspect only the clamping type with 3/8" shank comes into play.

Can anyone comment on the available selection? What to look for? What to
ask about?

http://www.busybeetools.com/categori...nurling-Tools/
Knurling-Tools/

Little Machine Shop has scissor-type knurling tools that look
considerably beefier, that come with a good selection of knurls, and they
carry the knurls, to boot (Busy Bee did not list knurls for the
inexpensive ones).

It's about twice the price, but it's the one that I'd buy.

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On May 31, 10:26*pm, wrote:
I feel the need to knurl.

Busy Bee has a bunch of knurling tools on sale. I have a 9x20 lathe so
I suspect only the clamping type with 3/8" shank comes into play.

Can anyone comment on the available selection? What to look for? What
to ask about?

http://www.busybeetools.com/categori...rling-Tools/Kn...

Thanks,

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

This is the sort I have:
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMK3

Mine is this exact style, except it was made in India and I bought it
off the scratch-and-dent for about $20. Nice to see that they have a
U.S.-made item, current price is not so nice for anyone not having a
business to depreciate it. Anyway, it works well, I replaced the
clamping nut with a lobed cast-iron knob from MSC. No wrench needed
then. Uses standard-sized knurls, at least US-standard ones.

The Busy Bee ones remind me of the various project ones I've seen in
The Model Engineer over the years for the British small hobby lathes.
Might be OK for fine knurling on smaller workpieces. Prices are
attractive, anyway.

Stan

On 2012-06-01, wrote:
I feel the need to knurl.

Busy Bee has a bunch of knurling tools on sale. I have a 9x20 lathe so
I suspect only the clamping type with 3/8" shank comes into play.

Can anyone comment on the available selection? What to look for? What
to ask about?

http://www.busybeetools.com/categori...nurling-Tools/

Hmm ... if you could use the first one shown (that is -- you
have the quick-change toolpost in at least AXA/Series 100 size) then you
have the option of using one by Aloris which I particularly like (and
which I have in the BXA size) The #19 (in my case BXA-19, in yours,
likely AXA-19). You can see it on page 18 of the 2010-2011 Aloris
catalog (PDF page number 20).

The one in the photo is missing one feature which mine has.
First the features in common:

1) It fits on the dovetail of the toolpost like any other holder.

2) It has two rigid arms which travel in dovetails, with a
leadscrew which is left-hand thread on one end and right-hand
thread on the other, and is captive in the middle, so as you
adjust it, the arms maintain centering once you have initially
set the height adjustment nut -- unless you move it to a
different lathe with different dimensions.

3) You can change the knurls for whichever pattern you want.

4) Once it is set for a given diameter, you can feed it onto
subsequent workpieces of the same diameter with no more
adjustment needed.

X) The difference is that mine has a knurled knob on the top end of
the leadscrew, with four holes drilled in radially, so you can
use a "tommy bar" to tighten it if need be. It looks as though
the current one has an Allen socket at the top end.

Also in common -- you probably don't want to pay new prices for
it. :-) The AXA size in that catalog is $302.00. Probably more
in the 2012-2013 catalog. Mine came from an eBay auction some
years ago.

There are two currently on eBay.

#120748127351 -- $271.95 BIN

#250867306826 -- $265.00 BIN

Hmm ... the first one shows the knob in the top illustration, and the
Allen socket in the one down in the body of the auction, so I'm not sure
which you would get.

O.K. Only the second one actually mentions the knob in the
description, so I guess that the first one gives you the Allen socket.

Anyway, if you want to purchase from the page you showed, the
ones which I would suggest a

B267758
B3005 (maybe)
B267738
B2678 (again maybe)
B3007

Make sure that the shank will fit your tool holders, and (if you
can find that information) the knurls will separate enough to handle the
largest diameter workpiece which you expect to knurl. The ones marked as
"maybe" look as though they are more limited in sizes possible.

The other styles are called "bump" knurling tools, and they put
a lot of stress on the cross-slide and carriage -- and you don't have
that strong a lathe to start with.

I have used a scissors style knurling tool which has the shank
going back away from the workpiece, and then the arms curving to handle
a wider range of sizes without requiring getting the toolpost too far
away from the workpiece. This worked well even on my little
Compact-5/CNC (5" swing lathe). It was actually made by Eagle Rock (a
good maker), but when I bought it from MSC, I could not tell this from
the catalog listing, which simply said "Made in USA". Once I received
it, however, it was marked by the maker.

Note that once you have a good tool, you can buy other knurling
rollers in various pitches and angles to swap in for your purpose. Two
rollers with the same angle (other than straight) will cut a diamond
pattern. Two straight ones will cut a straight knurl only (unless used
in a T-style holder designed for turret lathe use, which can be adjusted
to do anything with straight knurls), and one with a right-hand angle
and the other with the same angle in left-hand will cut a diagonal
knurl.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2 Jun 2012 01:59:08 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[...]
Anyway, if you want to purchase from the page you showed, the
ones which I would suggest a

B267758
B3005 (maybe)
B267738
B2678 (again maybe)
B3007

Make sure that the shank will fit your tool holders, and (if you
can find that information) the knurls will separate enough to handle the
largest diameter workpiece which you expect to knurl. The ones marked as
"maybe" look as though they are more limited in sizes possible.
[...]

Thanks.

I was wondering about the B3007. I have the OEM 4-way tool post and
should be able to get the 5/8" shank in there without having to worry
about shimming to get it on center due to the "floating" ability of
this particular tool.

Also losing $18 is not going to kill me (immediately). $270 might.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On 01/06/2012 12:58, Jim Wilkins wrote:
snip...

I think the work circumference has to be an integer multiple of the
knurl pitch. The knurls on mine are 3/4" in diameter and have 48
teeth, equivalent to a 1" knurl with 64 teeth, or a 64DP gear. They
should(?) track on any diameter that comes out even in N/64ths of an
inch, and possibly the metric ones that nearly match like 8, 11, 14,
19mm.

...snip

This is a popular myth that started with the assumption that knurling is
similar to gear cutting - it's not.
Think about it. If you examine a knurl that hasn't synced you will find
that it's consistently out of sync all round. If it was due to the
circumference not being an integer multiple of the knurl pitch then you
would expect the off-sync pattern to vary around the circumference -
sometimes syncing properly and sometimes not. The fact that the
out-of-sync pattern is maintained consistently tells you that once a
pattern has been established, the wheels will follow it.

Certainly, the initial out-of-sync pass is the result of the
circumference/pitch discrepancy, that's why you must start off with a
good bite - the deepest you can get away with.

The secret to good knurling is to start off with a good deep impression
- you mustn't pussyfoot with the initial bite. If you get a good start
the wheels will synchronise with the existing pattern and you will find
it impossible to change it. Once you've established the pattern, you can
just increase the pressure until you get the depth you want.

It works every time with me.

--
Regards, Gary Wooding
(To reply by email, change gug to goog in my address)

On Sat, 02 Jun 2012 08:55:37 +0100, lemel_man
wrote:

On 01/06/2012 12:58, Jim Wilkins wrote:
snip...

I think the work circumference has to be an integer multiple of the
knurl pitch. The knurls on mine are 3/4" in diameter and have 48
teeth, equivalent to a 1" knurl with 64 teeth, or a 64DP gear. They
should(?) track on any diameter that comes out even in N/64ths of an
inch, and possibly the metric ones that nearly match like 8, 11, 14,
19mm.

...snip

This is a popular myth that started with the assumption that knurling is
similar to gear cutting - it's not.
Think about it. If you examine a knurl that hasn't synced you will find
that it's consistently out of sync all round. If it was due to the
circumference not being an integer multiple of the knurl pitch then you
would expect the off-sync pattern to vary around the circumference -
sometimes syncing properly and sometimes not. The fact that the
out-of-sync pattern is maintained consistently tells you that once a
pattern has been established, the wheels will follow it.

Certainly, the initial out-of-sync pass is the result of the
circumference/pitch discrepancy, that's why you must start off with a
good bite - the deepest you can get away with.

The secret to good knurling is to start off with a good deep impression
- you mustn't pussyfoot with the initial bite. If you get a good start
the wheels will synchronise with the existing pattern and you will find
it impossible to change it. Once you've established the pattern, you can
just increase the pressure until you get the depth you want.

It works every time with me.
Having done thousands of knurls over the years I only agree partly
with the above statements. For a good knurl the work does indeed need
to be a close approximation to the knurl pitch. But since the knurl
will deform the work you eventually wind up with a knurled surface
than matches the pitch of the knurl if the work is soft enough. If the
piece being knurled is not able to deform fast enough before work
hardening then you can end up with a crappy knurled surface. Brass
will do this. It can start to flake if not knurled fast enough. The
knurling process works best when the material is worked quickly.
Sometimes the knurling won't come out good unless the diameter of the
piece being knurled is changed a little. This happens more with
diamond knurls. So if the part you are trying to knurl just doesn't
look good try turning down the diameter a little. Of course all the
above relates to form knurls and not cutting knurls.
Eric

I agree with Gary's comments regarding pattern size and workpiece diameter.

Excerpt from earlier reply wrt knurling:
Displacement-type diamond pattern knurls should be able to work properly
without concern for matching the pattern size to the diameter of the
workpiece.. that's where the good bearing surfaces of the pins and proper
lubrication come into play, as the knurls can creep a little to keep falling
into/track the same pattern.
The helical shape of diamond pattern knurls helps them track because they
can slip sideways a little while they're working.. if they don't have a gap
between the knurl and the holder (and good lubrication), thay can't slip
which will most likely produce poor results and lots of frustration.

The method taught when I was in high school was to carefully bring the
knurls into light contact with the workpiece and rock the chuck back n'forth
by hand, adjusting one of the knurls until the pattern was properly spaced
to produce full diamonds (not smaller parallelograms).. then bump the cross
feed in a bit and rotate the workpiece over a wider arc while establishing a
bite into the workpiece with the correct pattern.
After applying adequate cutting lube, it was a matter of feeding into the
workpiece as soon as the spindle motor was switched on.
The knurls would displace the material and establish a pattern to track, so
the operator could travel the workpiece and continue to feed until the
desired results were attained. We didn't have scssor-style knurling tools
back then.. but the same principles apply.
We were students.. I'm sure experienced machinists develop/utilize different
methods.

Straight knurls should also track an established pattern, although this
could be a little more difficult when working with work-hardening alloys..
it may require the operator to make CNC-like movements to be able to attain
consistent results for a large number of workpieces.

--
WB
..........


"lemel_man" wrote in message
...

This is a popular myth that started with the assumption that knurling is
similar to gear cutting - it's not.
Think about it. If you examine a knurl that hasn't synced you will find
that it's consistently out of sync all round. If it was due to the
circumference not being an integer multiple of the knurl pitch then you
would expect the off-sync pattern to vary around the circumference -
sometimes syncing properly and sometimes not. The fact that the
out-of-sync pattern is maintained consistently tells you that once a
pattern has been established, the wheels will follow it.

Certainly, the initial out-of-sync pass is the result of the
circumference/pitch discrepancy, that's why you must start off with a good
bite - the deepest you can get away with.

The secret to good knurling is to start off with a good deep impression -
you mustn't pussyfoot with the initial bite. If you get a good start the
wheels will synchronise with the existing pattern and you will find it
impossible to change it. Once you've established the pattern, you can just
increase the pressure until you get the depth you want.

It works every time with me.

--
Regards, Gary Wooding
(To reply by email, change gug to goog in my address)

On 2012-06-02, wrote:
On 2 Jun 2012 01:59:08 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[...]
Anyway, if you want to purchase from the page you showed, the
ones which I would suggest a

B267758
B3005 (maybe)
B267738
B2678 (again maybe)
B3007

Make sure that the shank will fit your tool holders, and (if you
can find that information) the knurls will separate enough to handle the
largest diameter workpiece which you expect to knurl. The ones marked as
"maybe" look as though they are more limited in sizes possible.
[...]

Thanks.

I was wondering about the B3007. I have the OEM 4-way tool post and
should be able to get the 5/8" shank in there without having to worry
about shimming to get it on center due to the "floating" ability of
this particular tool.

Yes -- it is quite forgiving in that sense.

Also losing $18 is not going to kill me (immediately). $270 might.

Understood. The one I got was a lot more wallet-friendly. :-)
That was before eBay got taken over by commercial vendors, when you
could get used equipment in good condition.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 3 Jun 2012 04:28:57 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[...]

I was wondering about the B3007. I have the OEM 4-way tool post and
should be able to get the 5/8" shank in there without having to worry
about shimming to get it on center due to the "floating" ability of
this particular tool.

Yes -- it is quite forgiving in that sense.

Also losing $18 is not going to kill me (immediately). $270 might.

Understood. The one I got was a lot more wallet-friendly. :-)
That was before eBay got taken over by commercial vendors, when you
could get used equipment in good condition.

I will stick an order in tonight (Busy Bee also have a couple of other
good deals).

I suspect that poor results will more likely be due to operator error
rather than the quality of the tool :-)

I was toying with the idea of doing a simple version of knurling on my
mini-mill - either just engrave each knurl with a dental burr while
turning the work piece or doing it with a tap (I saw someone making
gears that way). However, to get the workpiece rotating horizontally
and evenly step at a time on the mill would actually be more expensive
than the said $18 tool on the lathe.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC