My carrier weathermaker quit working. It is about 14 years old. I
went outside and there is a loud hum and the fan is not running. I
spun the fan with a screwdriver and it came on, but still barely spun.
It did not spin like normal. I pulled the power disconnect and still
heard the buzzing. I turned off the thermostat and the buzzing finally
stopped. I took the cover off and turned the thermostat back on, the
buzzing was coming from a relay. Honeywell DP204DA5003 coil 24v 50 hz
24 v 60 hz.


Am I to assume this relay is bad? I appreciate any help. My family is
sweating and tomorrow is a holiday so I am not sure what I am going to
do.


I have a small unit to my bonus room. It is a different brand unit. I
am not sure if the relay out of there would work or not.


I appreciate any help!

Text inserted, after my initials.....

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"stryped" wrote in message
...
My carrier weathermaker quit working. It is about 14 years old. I
went outside and there is a loud hum and the fan is not running. I
spun the fan with a screwdriver and it came on, but still barely spun.
It did not spin like normal.

CY: Sounds like the fan bearings are dried out.

I pulled the power disconnect and still
heard the buzzing. I turned off the thermostat and the buzzing finally
stopped. I took the cover off and turned the thermostat back on, the
buzzing was coming from a relay. Honeywell DP204DA5003 coil 24v 50 hz
24 v 60 hz.

CY: That's normal, to hear the contactor relay buzz.


Am I to assume this relay is bad? I appreciate any help. My family is
sweating and tomorrow is a holiday so I am not sure what I am going to
do.

CY: More likely that the fan motor dried out. You may be able to pump in
some non detergent 20 or 30 weight oil, where the motor shaft comes out, and
buy some time. But, it really ought to have that fan replaced. Please don't
run the unit with the fan idle, it will over heat and burn out the
compressor.

I have a small unit to my bonus room. It is a different brand unit. I
am not sure if the relay out of there would work or not.

CY: It's probably not the relay. It's more likely dried fan bearings.

I appreciate any help!

CY: Please remit $47.50 for internet consult.

On 5/27/2012 10:43 PM, stryped wrote:
My carrier weathermaker quit working. It is about 14 years old. I
went outside and there is a loud hum and the fan is not running. I
spun the fan with a screwdriver and it came on, but still barely spun.
It did not spin like normal. I pulled the power disconnect and still
heard the buzzing. I turned off the thermostat and the buzzing finally
stopped. I took the cover off and turned the thermostat back on, the
buzzing was coming from a relay. Honeywell DP204DA5003 coil 24v 50 hz
24 v 60 hz.


Am I to assume this relay is bad? I appreciate any help. My family is
sweating and tomorrow is a holiday so I am not sure what I am going to
do.


I have a small unit to my bonus room. It is a different brand unit. I
am not sure if the relay out of there would work or not.


I appreciate any help!

Check the capacitor.

"stryped" wrote in message
...
My carrier weathermaker quit working. It is about 14 years old. I
went outside and there is a loud hum and the fan is not running. I
spun the fan with a screwdriver and it came on, but still barely spun.
It did not spin like normal. I pulled the power disconnect and still
heard the buzzing. I turned off the thermostat and the buzzing finally
stopped. I took the cover off and turned the thermostat back on, the
buzzing was coming from a relay. Honeywell DP204DA5003 coil 24v 50 hz
24 v 60 hz.


Am I to assume this relay is bad? I appreciate any help. My family is
sweating and tomorrow is a holiday so I am not sure what I am going to
do.


I have a small unit to my bonus room. It is a different brand unit. I
am not sure if the relay out of there would work or not.


I appreciate any help!

Replace the capacitor.

stryped wrote:

My carrier weathermaker quit working. It is about 14 years old. I
went outside and there is a loud hum and the fan is not running. I
spun the fan with a screwdriver and it came on, but still barely spun.
It did not spin like normal. I pulled the power disconnect and still
heard the buzzing. I turned off the thermostat and the buzzing finally
stopped. I took the cover off and turned the thermostat back on, the
buzzing was coming from a relay. Honeywell DP204DA5003 coil 24v 50 hz
24 v 60 hz.


Am I to assume this relay is bad?
The relay is probably fine, although I don't know how loud
this buzzing is. It probably normally is covered up by the
hum of the compressor. A likely cause of the failure is
the run cap for the fan motor has failed. The compressor
has probably shut down either due to a Klixon switch
which should reset when it cools, or a high side overpressure
switch, which may require a manual reset.

Jon

Jon Elson wrote:
stryped wrote:

My carrier weathermaker quit working. It is about 14 years old. I
went outside and there is a loud hum and the fan is not running. I
spun the fan with a screwdriver and it came on, but still barely
spun. It did not spin like normal. I pulled the power disconnect and
still heard the buzzing. I turned off the thermostat and the buzzing
finally stopped. I took the cover off and turned the thermostat back
on, the buzzing was coming from a relay. Honeywell DP204DA5003 coil
24v 50 hz 24 v 60 hz.


Am I to assume this relay is bad?
The relay is probably fine, although I don't know how loud
this buzzing is. It probably normally is covered up by the
hum of the compressor. A likely cause of the failure is
the run cap for the fan motor has failed. The compressor
has probably shut down either due to a Klixon switch
which should reset when it cools, or a high side overpressure
switch, which may require a manual reset.

Jon

Most units have only a start cap - I replaced mine last week when it died
.. My unit condenser unit only is about 12-13 yrs old , this is the first
service it's needed since the second year of operation . The leak was so
small it took a year for enough refrigerant to leak out to be a problem ...
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message
...
Jon Elson wrote:
stryped wrote:

My carrier weathermaker quit working. It is about 14 years old. I
went outside and there is a loud hum and the fan is not running. I
spun the fan with a screwdriver and it came on, but still barely
spun. It did not spin like normal. I pulled the power disconnect
and still heard the buzzing. I turned off the thermostat and the
buzzing finally stopped. I took the cover off and turned the
thermostat back on, the buzzing was coming from a relay. Honeywell
DP204DA5003 coil 24v 50 hz 24 v 60 hz.


Am I to assume this relay is bad?
The relay is probably fine, although I don't know how loud
this buzzing is. It probably normally is covered up by the
hum of the compressor. A likely cause of the failure is
the run cap for the fan motor has failed. The compressor
has probably shut down either due to a Klixon switch
which should reset when it cools, or a high side overpressure
switch, which may require a manual reset.

Jon

Most units have only a start cap - I replaced mine last week when
it died . My unit condenser unit only is about 12-13 yrs old ,
this is the first service it's needed since the second year of
operation . The leak was so small it took a year for enough
refrigerant to leak out to be a problem ...


The overwhelming majority of residential AC amd heat pump condensor
fan motors are the "PSC" type which have no start capacitor but
instead need to have a run capacitor connected at all times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_moto...apacitor_motor

Perhaps where you live ... I've never seen a PSC motor used for condenser
fan duty here , every one I've ever worked on was a cap start induction run
motor . Furnace blower motors are often 3 speed units , and they too only
have a start cap . Your article also suggests that the PSC motor is
speed-variable , and I can see no reason why one would want to vary the
speed of a condenser fan ...
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

"Snag" fired this volley in news:ij3xr.48133
:

Your article also suggests that the PSC motor is
speed-variable , and I can see no reason why one would want to vary the
speed of a condenser fan ...


MOST of the high-end, high-efficiency AC units today have variable speed
indoor unit fans AND variable speed condensor fans. It's part of the way
they manage power use, by varying speed depending upon O.A.T. and load.

But those with truly variable speed aren't usually PSC motors, but 3-
phase inverter-driven types. Some of the older ones on the outdoor
units, after they started adding the variable speed thing, were multi-
winding PSC types.

LLoyd

"Snag" wrote in message
...
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message
...
Jon Elson wrote:
stryped wrote:

My carrier weathermaker quit working. It is about 14 years old. I
went outside and there is a loud hum and the fan is not running. I
spun the fan with a screwdriver and it came on, but still barely
spun. It did not spin like normal. I pulled the power disconnect
and still heard the buzzing. I turned off the thermostat and the
buzzing finally stopped. I took the cover off and turned the
thermostat back on, the buzzing was coming from a relay. Honeywell
DP204DA5003 coil 24v 50 hz 24 v 60 hz.


Am I to assume this relay is bad?
The relay is probably fine, although I don't know how loud
this buzzing is. It probably normally is covered up by the
hum of the compressor. A likely cause of the failure is
the run cap for the fan motor has failed. The compressor
has probably shut down either due to a Klixon switch
which should reset when it cools, or a high side overpressure
switch, which may require a manual reset.

Jon

Most units have only a start cap - I replaced mine last week when
it died . My unit condenser unit only is about 12-13 yrs old ,
this is the first service it's needed since the second year of
operation . The leak was so small it took a year for enough
refrigerant to leak out to be a problem ...


The overwhelming majority of residential AC amd heat pump condensor
fan motors are the "PSC" type which have no start capacitor but
instead need to have a run capacitor connected at all times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_moto...apacitor_motor

Perhaps where you live ... I've never seen a PSC motor used for condenser
fan duty here , every one I've ever worked on was a cap start induction
run

Either you are confused or you live on a different planet.

To be clear, the 'condensor' is the outside unit.

3 wires, a capacitor and no centrifugal switch =PSC

motor . Furnace blower motors are often 3 speed units , and they too only
have a start cap

Here again you are wrong, except in the case of some ancient belt drive
furnace units.

.. Your article also suggests that the PSC motor is
speed-variable , and I can see no reason why one would want to vary the
speed of a condenser fan ...


Where multi speed PSC motors are used for evaporator fans, it is because it
is often desirable to run at a higher cfm; for instance whenever auxillary
heat is being used.

But I was discussing condensor fans above, which in the vast majority of
cases will be the PSC type the exceptions being ultra-high efficiency units
and those manufactured after the phase-out of R22

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message
...
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

The overwhelming majority of residential AC amd heat pump condensor
fan motors are the "PSC" type which have no start capacitor but
instead need to have a run capacitor connected at all times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_moto...apacitor_motor

Perhaps where you live ... I've never seen a PSC motor used for
condenser fan duty here , every one I've ever worked on was a cap
start induction run

Either you are confused or you live on a different planet.

To be clear, the 'condensor' is the outside unit.

Duh , I dint know that !! You really think I'm stupid ?

3 wires, a capacitor and no centrifugal switch =PSC

And you're *WRONG* . 3 wires and a cap is CSIR - cap start inductive run .
My bench mill has 2 caps , a start and a run . My condenser unit has a 5/40
MfD START cap . 5 for the fan , 40 for the compressor unit .

motor . Furnace blower motors are often 3 speed units , and they too
only have a start cap

Here again you are wrong, except in the case of some ancient belt
drive furnace units.

Bull**** again , my 13 year old frnace has the squirrel cage fan mounted
on the motor shaft . It has only a start cap ...

. Your article also suggests that the PSC motor is
speed-variable , and I can see no reason why one would want to vary
the speed of a condenser fan ...


Where multi speed PSC motors are used for evaporator fans, it is
because it is often desirable to run at a higher cfm; for instance
whenever auxillary heat is being used.

Here's one where you might be right - I have no experience with electric
aux heaters , always had a gas furnace .


But I was discussing condensor fans above, which in the vast
majority of cases will be the PSC type the exceptions being
ultra-high efficiency units and those manufactured after the
phase-out of R22

And again I say - I've never seen anything except a single-start-cap fan
motor in a condenser unit .
Lloyd S's response made some sense , in that varying speed according to
heat/cool load can be a "good thing" .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

"Snag" fired this volley in
:

And again I say - I've never seen anything except a single-start-cap
fan motor in a condenser unit .

Snag,

A motor with a start capacitor also requires a start switch and a start
winding (most usually integral in the motor, although hermetic
compressors usually have the start switch externally mounted). Most
condensor motors aren't so-equipped, because they don't _need_ the
starting torque a start winding and capacitor provide.

Most motors that can undergo extreme "slip" on starting are PSC capacitor
RUN motors, not cap-start.

Capacitor-start is used (almost solely) when a motor must start under
heavy load. A free-wheeling fan nowhere near meets that criterion.

LLoyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Snag" fired this volley in
:

And again I say - I've never seen anything except a
single-start-cap fan motor in a condenser unit .

Snag,

A motor with a start capacitor also requires a start switch and a
start winding (most usually integral in the motor, although hermetic
compressors usually have the start switch externally mounted). Most
condensor motors aren't so-equipped, because they don't _need_ the
starting torque a start winding and capacitor provide.

Most motors that can undergo extreme "slip" on starting are PSC
capacitor RUN motors, not cap-start.

Capacitor-start is used (almost solely) when a motor must start under
heavy load. A free-wheeling fan nowhere near meets that criterion.

LLoyd

Hmmm , sounds like we might be hung up on terminology , I was taught that
was a start cap .OK , poked around a bit , and looks like the only major
differences between CSIR's and PSC's is the size of the cap and lack of a
centrif switch .
So technically he's correct , and I never knew or cared about the
difference - hey if the cap goes bad neither one is gonna spin on it's own .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

"Snag" fired this volley in news:Tccxr.23434
:

Hmmm , sounds like we might be hung up on terminology

It is terminology, sure, but there's a _distinct_ difference in the whole
philosophy of how a cap-run motor operates from that of cap-start.

In capacitor-start, a separate winding that draws so much current it
_may_not_ remain connected for more than a couple of seconds provides
very heavy phase-shift relative to the run winding, so the motor starts
in a particular direction, and does so very rapidly, with a lot of
torque. As soon as it comes up to semi-synchronous speed, the
centrifugal switch cuts out the start winding so it doesn't over heat.

In a capacitor-run circuit, there is also a separate winding, but it's
sized and has an inductance such that it can remain powered indefinitely.
It provides just a _slight_ "kick" in the phase difference between the
run and "start" windings, so that the motor starts in the right
direction, then SLOWLY spins up to semi-synchronous speed. At that
point, the run winding does the heavy lifting, but the "start" winding
continues to provide a small impetus; it's effect diminishes as speed
increases.

Schematically (as you note), there's very little difference in the
circuits, except for the starting switch in the capacitor-start motor.
In terms of inductance, power factor and consumption, phase shift in the
windings, and starting torque, there is a lot of difference.

Despite this being "just semantics", there's a huge difference in the
application range for the two types of motors (and the capacitors are
vastly different values between the two types).

LLoyd

On 05/29/2012 05:37 PM, Snag wrote:
Hmmm , sounds like we might be hung up on terminology , I was taught that
was a start cap .OK , poked around a bit , and looks like the only major
differences between CSIR's and PSC's is the size of the cap and lack of a
centrif switch .
So technically he's correct , and I never knew or cared about the
difference - hey if the cap goes bad neither one is gonna spin on it's own .

True, but a CSIR motor will continue to run just fine if you give it
a spin to get it started. A spun-up PSC motor will run poorly without
its run cap.

--
Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42"

"Snag" wrote in message
...
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Snag" fired this volley in
:

And again I say - I've never seen anything except a
single-start-cap fan motor in a condenser unit .

Snag,

A motor with a start capacitor also requires a start switch and a
start winding (most usually integral in the motor, although hermetic
compressors usually have the start switch externally mounted). Most
condensor motors aren't so-equipped, because they don't _need_ the
starting torque a start winding and capacitor provide.

Most motors that can undergo extreme "slip" on starting are PSC
capacitor RUN motors, not cap-start.

Capacitor-start is used (almost solely) when a motor must start under
heavy load. A free-wheeling fan nowhere near meets that criterion.

LLoyd

Hmmm , sounds like we might be hung up on terminology , I was taught that
was a start cap .OK , poked around a bit , and looks like the only major
differences between CSIR's and PSC's is the size of the cap and lack of a
centrif switch .
So technically he's correct , and I never knew or cared about the
difference - hey if the cap goes bad neither one is gonna spin on it's own
.
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

Glad you learned something--I was really beginning to wonder...

Main difference from a user standpoint is that a capacitor start induction
run motor ( which has a centrifugal switch ) can start under quite a bit
more load as compared to a PSC motor, and a PSC motor is more electrically
efficient.

The best of both worlds lies with the capacitor start /capacitor run motor
which, in addition to a centrifugal switch, has 2 capacitors--it's fairly
common to see this type of motor on air compressors, drill presses and such,
the presence of two capacitor "humps" usually being their most distinctive
visual feature.

"Robert Nichols" wrote in
message ...
On 05/29/2012 05:37 PM, Snag wrote:
Hmmm , sounds like we might be hung up on terminology , I was taught
that
was a start cap .OK , poked around a bit , and looks like the only major
differences between CSIR's and PSC's is the size of the cap and lack of a
centrif switch .
So technically he's correct , and I never knew or cared about the
difference - hey if the cap goes bad neither one is gonna spin on it's
own .

True, but a CSIR motor will continue to run just fine if you give it
a spin to get it started. A spun-up PSC motor will run poorly without
its run cap.


That's why it's called a "run" cap instead of a "start" cap...

--
Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42"

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

.and it only has a start cap.

Bet it's a run cap. Really.

Lloyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

.and it only has a start cap.

Bet it's a run cap. Really.



He has no money to bet with.

On 2012-05-29, Snag wrote:
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message
...

[ ... ]

Most units have only a start cap - I replaced mine last week when
it died . My unit condenser unit only is about 12-13 yrs old ,
this is the first service it's needed since the second year of
operation . The leak was so small it took a year for enough
refrigerant to leak out to be a problem ...


The overwhelming majority of residential AC amd heat pump condensor
fan motors are the "PSC" type which have no start capacitor but
instead need to have a run capacitor connected at all times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_moto...apacitor_motor

Perhaps where you live ... I've never seen a PSC motor used for condenser
fan duty here , every one I've ever worked on was a cap start induction run
motor .

Where is "here"?

I'm in Virginia, fairly near Washington DC, and my unit (about a
fifteen year old Carrier) has a PSC motor. There is no click of a
centrifugal switch, and if you try a clamp-on ammeter, you will find
current through all three leads some time after it has spun up, and when
a cap start would have disconnected it. I believe that the OP stated
that his was a Carrier unit too.

The cap is an oil-filled cap (a combination one in a single
package, with the other one (much higher capacitance) used to run the
motor in the compressor. Cap start motors look similar (though usually
have the cap mounted in a bump on the outside of the motor, while the
run cap for this PSC is mounted elsewhere on the frame of the system,
where it sees less vibration -- especially since it needs to power both
motors -- the fan and the compressor.

Furnace blower motors are often 3 speed units , and they too only
have a start cap .

Mine is three speed, has an oil filled cap, not a standard start
cap, and I've had the motor form mine apart -- there is no centrifugal
switch. IIRC, the cap connects to one of three input leads, while power
and return connect to two others, for five wires total, or sometimes
six, if the motor is a four speed one, which works fine even though my
system only uses three speeds.

It controls speed by adjusting the torque (which would be the
starting torque in a cap start motor), but balancing that torque against
the air resistance of running the blower. If it were a cap start, it
would keep going up to centrifugal switch speed, losing the extra
torque, and dropping back down in speed until the centrifugal switch
closed again, repeating the cycle until the start cap gives up (fairly
quickly -- I blew one on my lathe with too many starts and stops in a
fairly short period. :-)

Your article also suggests that the PSC motor is
speed-variable , and I can see no reason why one would want to vary the
speed of a condenser fan ...

Perhaps a tradeoff between heat exchange rate and noise level,
if people like to sit out on the deck or have a window open while it
is running? But it certainly is used to good effect in the furnace/AC
blower indoors.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...

Your article also suggests that the PSC motor is
speed-variable , and I can see no reason why one would want to vary the
speed of a condenser fan ...

Perhaps a tradeoff between heat exchange rate and noise level,
if people like to sit out on the deck or have a window open while it
is running? But it certainly is used to good effect in the furnace/AC
blower indoors.


The high speed windings are typically used with gas or oil furnaces--the
reduced temperature rise serves to extend heat exchanger life and reduces
the possibility of causing a fire

Alternately, with A/C, in order for effective dehumdification to occur,
there is a need to keep face velocity at the evaporator below a certain
threshold, otherwise, instead of trickling down into the condensate pan,
dropets that precipitate on the coil are vaporized instead and end up
getting blown back into the airstream causing water soaked ductwork etc and
so usually the low or medium speed setting is used instead.

On 5/29/2012 10:43 PM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2012-05-29, wrote:
PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
wrote in message
...

[ ... ]

Most units have only a start cap - I replaced mine last week when
it died . My unitcondenser unit only is about 12-13 yrs old ,
this is the first service it's needed since the second year of
operation . The leak was so small it took a year for enough
refrigerant to leak out to be a problem ...


The overwhelming majority of residential AC amd heat pump condensor
fan motors are the "PSC" type which have no start capacitor but
instead need to have a run capacitor connected at all times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_moto...apacitor_motor

Perhaps where you live ... I've never seen a PSC motor used for condenser
fan duty here , every one I've ever worked on was a cap start induction run
motor .

Where is "here"?

I'm in Virginia, fairly near Washington DC, and my unit (about a
fifteen year old Carrier) has a PSC motor. There is no click of a
centrifugal switch, and if you try a clamp-on ammeter, you will find
current through all three leads some time after it has spun up, and when
a cap start would have disconnected it. I believe that the OP stated
that his was a Carrier unit too.

The cap is an oil-filled cap (a combination one in a single
package, with the other one (much higher capacitance) used to run the
motor in the compressor. Cap start motors look similar (though usually
have the cap mounted in a bump on the outside of the motor, while the
run cap for this PSC is mounted elsewhere on the frame of the system,
where it sees less vibration -- especially since it needs to power both
motors -- the fan and the compressor.

Furnace blower motors are often 3 speed units , and they too only
have a start cap .

Mine is three speed, has an oil filled cap, not a standard start
cap, and I've had the motor form mine apart -- there is no centrifugal
switch. IIRC, the cap connects to one of three input leads, while power
and return connect to two others, for five wires total, or sometimes
six, if the motor is a four speed one, which works fine even though my
system only uses three speeds.

It controls speed by adjusting the torque (which would be the
starting torque in a cap start motor), but balancing that torque against
the air resistance of running the blower. If it were a cap start, it
would keep going up to centrifugal switch speed, losing the extra
torque, and dropping back down in speed until the centrifugal switch
closed again, repeating the cycle until the start cap gives up (fairly
quickly -- I blew one on my lathe with too many starts and stops in a
fairly short period. :-)

Your article also suggests that the PSC motor is
speed-variable , and I can see no reason why one would want to vary the
speed of a condenser fan ...

Perhaps a tradeoff between heat exchange rate and noise level,
if people like to sit out on the deck or have a window open while it
is running? But it certainly is used to good effect in the furnace/AC
blower indoors.

Enjoy,
DoN.


The dual caps are brilliant! When one fails the top puffs up and breaks
all connections on both internal caps

On 2012-05-30, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:
On 5/29/2012 10:43 PM, DoN. Nichols wrote:

[ ... ]

The cap is an oil-filled cap (a combination one in a single
package, with the other one (much higher capacitance) used to run the
motor in the compressor.

[ ... ]

The dual caps are brilliant! When one fails the top puffs up and breaks
all connections on both internal caps

In my case, the ground lead broke or burned out or whatever,
leaving the two in series. As a result, a reasonable value of
capacitance was available for the fan, but the compressor kept trying to
start, dimming the lights, and then giving up as the heat sensor told it
to quit. No visible bulges in that cap, unfortunately. And when I
tried to measure it, I got the right reading (close enough for a
non-precision cap) for the fan motor run cap, so went on to look at
other things for a while. Of course, this sort of thing happens on the
hottest days of the year. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 5/30/2012 8:01 PM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2012-05-30, Tom GardnerMars@Tacks wrote:
On 5/29/2012 10:43 PM, DoN. Nichols wrote:

[ ... ]

The cap is an oil-filled cap (a combination one in a single
package, with the other one (much higher capacitance) used to run the
motor in the compressor.

[ ... ]

The dual caps are brilliant! When one fails the top puffs up and breaks
all connections on both internal caps

In my case, the ground lead broke or burned out or whatever,
leaving the two in series. As a result, a reasonable value of
capacitance was available for the fan, but the compressor kept trying to
start, dimming the lights, and then giving up as the heat sensor told it
to quit. No visible bulges in that cap, unfortunately. And when I
tried to measure it, I got the right reading (close enough for a
non-precision cap) for the fan motor run cap, so went on to look at
other things for a while. Of course, this sort of thing happens on the
hottest days of the year. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.



Talk about the lack of luck! It's like things conspired against you.

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
"Jim Wilkins" on Thu, 31 May 2012 09:11:29
...
But I used the He-she-or-it formulation because with liberals, you
can't automatically assume that they are male. Wouldn't want to be
too gender assumptive, would we?
--
pyotr

I don't assume Homo Sapiens. Isolate a group of urbanites like on
"Survivor" and challenge them to lift themselves out of the Stone Age.

On Fri, 1 Jun 2012 08:46:45 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .
"Jim Wilkins" on Thu, 31 May 2012 09:11:29
...
But I used the He-she-or-it formulation because with liberals, you
can't automatically assume that they are male. Wouldn't want to be
too gender assumptive, would we?

Right you are, Pete. Many liberals -are- he/shes.


I don't assume Homo Sapiens. Isolate a group of urbanites like on
"Survivor" and challenge them to lift themselves out of the Stone Age.

Yeah, just don't make us watch it. How did that sig go? Something like
"The term Homo Sapien is an aspiration, not a definition."

--
In reality, serendipity accounts for one percent of the blessings
we receive in life, work and love. The other 99 percent is due to
our efforts.
-- Peter McWilliams

"Jim Wilkins" on Fri, 1 Jun 2012 08:46:45 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" on Thu, 31 May 2012 09:11:29
...
But I used the He-she-or-it formulation because with liberals, you
can't automatically assume that they are male. Wouldn't want to be
too gender assumptive, would we?
--
pyotr

I don't assume Homo Sapiens. Isolate a group of urbanites like on
"Survivor" and challenge them to lift themselves out of the Stone Age.

Point taken. But the detail that a subset of modem man couldn't
reconstruct lifestyle of the Middle Paleolithic, doesn't change them
from being "Thinking Man" or even Homo Faber (man the tool user.)

There is also the axioms of the Bene Gesseret, that because it has
the form of a human being it must be treated as a human being, until
such time that it demonstrates that it is an animal, and not a human
being.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.

Larry Jaques on Fri, 01 Jun 2012
08:54:38 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 1 Jun 2012 08:46:45 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
. ..
"Jim Wilkins" on Thu, 31 May 2012 09:11:29
...
But I used the He-she-or-it formulation because with liberals, you
can't automatically assume that they are male. Wouldn't want to be
too gender assumptive, would we?

Right you are, Pete. Many liberals -are- he/shes.

Yep, He or she it


I don't assume Homo Sapiens. Isolate a group of urbanites like on
"Survivor" and challenge them to lift themselves out of the Stone Age.

Yeah, just don't make us watch it. How did that sig go? Something like
"The term Homo Sapien is an aspiration, not a definition."
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.

Yep, in PSC motors the capacitor is energized full-time while the motor is
running (both windings also energized).
PSC motors utilize 3 power leads (not counting the case/earth ground) and
are often impedance protected by design.

Another PSC characteristic is that a multi-speed PSC motor doesn't require
extra power leads, as changing the capacitor value can change the speeds.. a
two-section capacitor with 2uF and 4uf can be switched to provide 3 speeds
by using 2, or 4, or both combined in parallel for 6uF, for example.

The capacitor value for PSC motors is a low value up to around 20uF or
sometimes slightly higher.

In split-phase capacitor start motors, the capacitor is only energized
momentarily during startup.

The split-phase capacitor start/CSIR motor utilizes a centrifugal switch to
attain it's run speed, and has only 2 power leads (not counting the
case/earth ground) and the same applies whether the motor is split-phase
without a start cap, or split-phase capacitor start and capacitor run type.

Start capacitor values for SPCS motors is generally high with a value of
approximately 500uF per horsepower (fractional HP motor start caps typically
about 100uF).

So there are several differences that make identification of the motor type
fairly easy, hence the capacitor type.

Knowing the actual use/type of cap may not be of much use when inquiring at
a parts counter though.. many sellers of motor caps mis-state the correct
terms.

--
WB
..........


"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:htGdnXRKwsNYwljSnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@scnresearch. com...

That's why it's called a "run" cap instead of a "start" cap...