Is there a quick way to square a swivel vise to the direction of
travel? I can get moderately close with a piece of paper and a piece
of precision rod stock. To get closer I have to cut something and use
a depth gage of some type horizontally to measure the difference from
one end to the other.

How about about tightening it down without it moving? I just tighten
a little and paper it. Then a little more and paper it again, etc, to
the point where I have to make final adjustments with a deadblow
hammer.

With one of my screwless vises I slap it on the table, square it up
with a machinist square, and clamp it down. I may have to make a few
hammer adjustments, but its already really close, and it doesn't move
enough to be noticeable when I tighten it in place with clamps.

Actually I so rarely need to use the swivel part of the vise I was
thinking about removing it from the mill entirely... maybe throw it on
the noname mill drill (if it isn't too tall or maybe with swivel
removed) and leave a pair of screwless vises on the RF-30 instead.
Take a little time to square them up to the mill and each other and
leave them on it.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message ...
Is there a quick way to square a swivel vise to the direction of
travel? I can get moderately close with a piece of paper and a piece
of precision rod stock. To get closer I have to cut something and use
a depth gage of some type horizontally to measure the difference from
one end to the other.

How about about tightening it down without it moving? I just tighten
a little and paper it. Then a little more and paper it again, etc, to
the point where I have to make final adjustments with a deadblow
hammer.

With one of my screwless vises I slap it on the table, square it up
with a machinist square, and clamp it down. I may have to make a few
hammer adjustments, but its already really close, and it doesn't move
enough to be noticeable when I tighten it in place with clamps.

Actually I so rarely need to use the swivel part of the vise I was
thinking about removing it from the mill entirely... maybe throw it on
the noname mill drill (if it isn't too tall or maybe with swivel
removed) and leave a pair of screwless vises on the RF-30 instead.
Take a little time to square them up to the mill and each other and
leave them on it.

Start indicating with your indicator in the middle of the vise jaw and set it to zero. Then move the table left and swivel the vise till the indicator again reads zero at the right hand end of the jaw..

Shouldn't take more than 30 seconds or so.

On Tue, 22 May 2012 09:33:14 -0700 (PDT), Bob La Londe
wrote:

Is there a quick way to square a swivel vise to the direction of
travel? I can get moderately close with a piece of paper and a piece
of precision rod stock. To get closer I have to cut something and use
a depth gage of some type horizontally to measure the difference from
one end to the other.

How about about tightening it down without it moving? I just tighten
a little and paper it. Then a little more and paper it again, etc, to
the point where I have to make final adjustments with a deadblow
hammer.
snip
==============
Assuming this isn't a troll, this is what test (not drop,
although you can use with suitable holder) indicators were
developed for.

For some examples (there are many others and your local mill
supply should stock) see

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PARTPG=INLMK32

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMK3

you will also need a mounting kit

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=343&PMCTLG=00

One useful trick is to lightly clamp a parallel in the vise
and indicate off this as the additional length will
"amplify" any out of square condition for the test indicator
to measure.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?P...PARTPG=INLMK32

a large HSS lathe tool bit can also be used and may be
cheaper.

http://www.wttool.com/index/page/pro...+Bits+%28WT%29


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

you got answers on squaring. My vice comes in/out constantly. I put
keys in the bottom, a bit of work to get them just right. Then you
just wipe the table slot clean and put the vice back in. No re
setting.

With CNC, a swivel vice goes in a dark corner to collect dust.

Karl

On Tue, 22 May 2012 12:46:48 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 22 May 2012 09:33:14 -0700 (PDT), Bob La Londe
wrote:

Is there a quick way to square a swivel vise to the direction of
travel? I can get moderately close with a piece of paper and a piece
of precision rod stock. To get closer I have to cut something and use
a depth gage of some type horizontally to measure the difference from
one end to the other.

The proper way is to use a tenths or thousands dial test indicator. And
it takes from 5-15 minutes, depending on your skill level and the
rigidity of the machine.

I can do it in 5-8 (I measured) on MY mill..a rather stout Gorton
MasterMill..but Its taken me 15 on a clapped out Bridgeport.

It really depends on what you actually need for parallell. Tenths or big
thousands.

Snug up the bolts, put a parallel in the jaws, indicate off the side of
the parallel. Tap with a dead blow hammer. Go from one side to the
middle and back again until you are close..then go full length back and
forth.

Snug *one* bolt, leave the other finger tight. That way you'll know
where the pivot point is when you're tapping. Check again after
reefing down on the bolts.

The keys on my vise will get it within a thou or two over the width of
the jaws. When I'm feeling fussier than that it probably takes longer
to get the indicator out and set up than tap and tighten dance does.


--
Ned Simmons

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
Is there a quick way to square a swivel vise to the direction of
travel? I can get moderately close with a piece of paper and a
piece
of precision rod stock. To get closer I have to cut something and
use
a depth gage of some type horizontally to measure the difference
from
one end to the other.

...
Actually I so rarely need to use the swivel part of the vise I was
thinking about removing it from the mill entirely... maybe throw it
on
the noname mill drill (if it isn't too tall or maybe with swivel
removed) and leave a pair of screwless vises on the RF-30 instead.
Take a little time to square them up to the mill and each other and
leave them on it.

I milled (and filed) a steel bar to a close sliding fit in an RF-31's
table slot, then cut shallow steps along both upper sides to get
vertical surfaces that were dead parallel to the table travel, which
the slots weren't exactly.

I clamped the vise upside down on the bar's steps and slotted its base
between the mounting tabs to fit the tongue on the bar, which became
the locating key.

The slot in the vise base was only deep enough to locate the bar,
perhaps 1/16", to avoid weakening the base which is in tension when
tightened.

jsw

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 22 May 2012 12:46:48 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 22 May 2012 09:33:14 -0700 (PDT), Bob La Londe
wrote:

Is there a quick way to square a swivel vise to the direction of
travel? I can get moderately close with a piece of paper and a piece
of precision rod stock. To get closer I have to cut something and use
a depth gage of some type horizontally to measure the difference from
one end to the other.

The proper way is to use a tenths or thousands dial test indicator. And
it takes from 5-15 minutes, depending on your skill level and the
rigidity of the machine.

I can do it in 5-8 (I measured) on MY mill..a rather stout Gorton
MasterMill..but Its taken me 15 on a clapped out Bridgeport.

It really depends on what you actually need for parallell. Tenths or big
thousands.

Snug up the bolts, put a parallel in the jaws, indicate off the side of
the parallel. Tap with a dead blow hammer. Go from one side to the
middle and back again until you are close..then go full length back and
forth.

Snug *one* bolt, leave the other finger tight. That way you'll know
where the pivot point is when you're tapping. Check again after
reefing down on the bolts.


Except, the OP's question was about trueing up a swivel base vise after it's been swiveled quite a ways off-angle.

The keys on my vise will get it within a thou or two over the width of
the jaws. When I'm feeling fussier than that it probably takes longer
to get the indicator out and set up than tap and tighten dance does.


Oftentimes, the swivel base is keyed in which case you can add a pin for instance at zero and every 10 degrees around the base and again at zero, -7-1/2 and +5 degrees on the vise itself which gives you a discrete index point for every 2-1/2 degrees around the entire base circle.

"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:mbudnRrYaNxgkCHSnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@scnresearch. com...

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 May 2012 12:46:48 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 22 May 2012 09:33:14 -0700 (PDT), Bob La Londe
wrote:

Is there a quick way to square a swivel vise to the direction of
travel? I can get moderately close with a piece of paper and a piece
of precision rod stock. To get closer I have to cut something and use
a depth gage of some type horizontally to measure the difference from
one end to the other.

The proper way is to use a tenths or thousands dial test indicator. And
it takes from 5-15 minutes, depending on your skill level and the
rigidity of the machine.

I can do it in 5-8 (I measured) on MY mill..a rather stout Gorton
MasterMill..but Its taken me 15 on a clapped out Bridgeport.

It really depends on what you actually need for parallell. Tenths or big
thousands.

Snug up the bolts, put a parallel in the jaws, indicate off the side of
the parallel. Tap with a dead blow hammer. Go from one side to the
middle and back again until you are close..then go full length back and
forth.

Snug *one* bolt, leave the other finger tight. That way you'll know
where the pivot point is when you're tapping. Check again after
reefing down on the bolts.


Except, the OP's question was about trueing up a swivel base vise after
it's been swiveled quite a ways off-angle.

The keys on my vise will get it within a thou or two over the width of
the jaws. When I'm feeling fussier than that it probably takes longer
to get the indicator out and set up than tap and tighten dance does.


Oftentimes, the swivel base is keyed in which case you can add a pin for
instance at zero and every 10 degrees around the base and again at
zero, -7-1/2 and +5 degrees on the vise itself which gives you a discrete
index point for every 2-1/2 degrees around the entire base circle.

That is a good idea! Spring loaded ball bearing keying on a decent lathe
tool post. (Not that I have one. LOL.)

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message ...
"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:mbudnRrYaNxgkCHSnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@scnresearch. com...

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 May 2012 12:46:48 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 22 May 2012 09:33:14 -0700 (PDT), Bob La Londe
wrote:

Is there a quick way to square a swivel vise to the direction of
travel? I can get moderately close with a piece of paper and a piece
of precision rod stock. To get closer I have to cut something and use
a depth gage of some type horizontally to measure the difference from
one end to the other.

The proper way is to use a tenths or thousands dial test indicator. And
it takes from 5-15 minutes, depending on your skill level and the
rigidity of the machine.

I can do it in 5-8 (I measured) on MY mill..a rather stout Gorton
MasterMill..but Its taken me 15 on a clapped out Bridgeport.

It really depends on what you actually need for parallell. Tenths or big
thousands.

Snug up the bolts, put a parallel in the jaws, indicate off the side of
the parallel. Tap with a dead blow hammer. Go from one side to the
middle and back again until you are close..then go full length back and
forth.

Snug *one* bolt, leave the other finger tight. That way you'll know
where the pivot point is when you're tapping. Check again after
reefing down on the bolts.


Except, the OP's question was about trueing up a swivel base vise after
it's been swiveled quite a ways off-angle.

The keys on my vise will get it within a thou or two over the width of
the jaws. When I'm feeling fussier than that it probably takes longer
to get the indicator out and set up than tap and tighten dance does.


Oftentimes, the swivel base is keyed in which case you can add a pin for
instance at zero and every 10 degrees around the base and again at
zero, -7-1/2 and +5 degrees on the vise itself which gives you a discrete
index point for every 2-1/2 degrees around the entire base circle.

That is a good idea! Spring loaded ball bearing keying on a decent lathe
tool post. (Not that I have one. LOL.)


Not sure the pattern works out exactly as I had described above but as long as you understand the principle...

On 2012-05-22, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 22 May 2012 09:33:14 -0700 (PDT), Bob La Londe
wrote:

Is there a quick way to square a swivel vise to the direction of
travel? I can get moderately close with a piece of paper and a piece
of precision rod stock. To get closer I have to cut something and use
a depth gage of some type horizontally to measure the difference from
one end to the other.

[ ... ]

Actually I so rarely need to use the swivel part of the vise I was
thinking about removing it from the mill entirely... maybe throw it on
the noname mill drill (if it isn't too tall or maybe with swivel
removed) and leave a pair of screwless vises on the RF-30 instead.
Take a little time to square them up to the mill and each other and
leave them on it.

To be frank...few..very very few machinists will put a swivel vise on a
mill. The dusty corners of old machine shops are littered with the
swivel bases.

If this is a Kurt -- or one of the clones of a Kurt -- take it
off the swivel base, and install keys in the base (there are likely
already keys in the swivel base -- you can just move these).

If the vise does not have ways for the keys (you want them in
line with the notches for the clampdown screws), take your other two
vises, set them up so a rectangular bar clamped between them is parallel
to the travel, clean off the fixed and moving jaws of the Kurt (or
clone) and mount it upside down clamped to the bar, and use an endmill
to cut the grooves in line with the clamp-down and make the keys to fit
in there, held down by tapped screw holes (counterbored holes for Allen
head cap screws) and trim the projecting parts of the keys to be a good
fit in the T-slots of the milling table. Make sure that you kiss the
side towards the fixed jaw first, and then trim the other side until you
have the right dimension to fit the slot. If it is a little loose,
simply hold the vise towards the column of the mill while tightening the
clamp down screws and it should repeat very accurately. If you screw up
a little, take the removable jaws off and shave machine the surface that
the fixed jaws bolt to so they are parallel to the keys with the vise
clamped down.

They do come in handy on such things as shapers and some drill
presses..but...for milling machines..they can be serious issues,
particularly when you need absolute rigidity and "trueness"

Keys are your friend. For a non-CNC mill, a swivel base can be
useful sometimes -- but most of the time it just wastes space and loses
a bit of rigidity.

Good Luck,
DoN.

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