I replaced a section of rusted brake line under my truck when I had
the gas tank out. Two things I noticed, One, I had to make a very
sharp bend in the tubing with a tubing bender. It may be slightly
kinked. I was able to blow through it without any difficulty though.
Two, I used a compression fitting where the replacement line met the
old line.

I attempted to bleed the back brakes last night with a hand operated
vacuum pump. I opened the right rear wheel screw. Nothing came out
unless you press on the brake pedal. I could completely remove the
bleeder screw and nothing would come out. The driver side rear wheel
(one closest to the repair) came out fine but could not get rid of the
hundreds of bubbles.

I am second guessing everythign now. My brake light on the dash came
on.

Is a compression fitting ok to use? It came from the auto parts store
and I checked it three times and it is not leaking.
Is it ok to replace the metal line with a flexxible line? That way I
would not have to make any bends.

I am thinking I need to try to bleed everything manually. (With a
helper depressing the pedal). I am so frustrated.

On 12/12/2011 7:36 AM, stryped wrote:
I replaced a section of rusted brake line under my truck when I had
the gas tank out. Two things I noticed, One, I had to make a very
sharp bend in the tubing with a tubing bender. It may be slightly
kinked. I was able to blow through it without any difficulty though.
Two, I used a compression fitting where the replacement line met the
old line.
....

Bad idea imo; you really should either get a flaring kit and do it
yourself or buy preformed line. I wouldn't trust compression fittings
for the long haul in brake line application.

There are flexible hose kits; primarily they're already equipped w/ the
fittings to got into the cylinder fittings at the wheel but also can
find various kits and so on for custom use. NB that brake hose is rated
at like 3000 psi, not just ordinary rubber hose.

If the fluid is full of tiny bubbles your best bet on bleeding is to let
it set for at least a couple days and let that coalesce into larger
ones. That is indicative of low fluid and perhaps an air infiltration
when release; it's sucking air into and mixing it in with the fluid.

--

On 12/12/2011 9:58 AM, dpb wrote:
....

If the fluid is full of tiny bubbles your best bet on bleeding is to let
it set for at least a couple days and let that coalesce into larger
ones. That is indicative of low fluid and perhaps an air infiltration
when release; it's sucking air into and mixing it in with the fluid.
....

Oh, one last thought...I presume is front disc/rear drum? (My '98/'99
are). Once't upon a time many, many moons ago, I couldn't manage to
bleed brakes on old C38 Chebby (1-1/2T dually, '59) after rebuilding
rear cylinders. Finally gave it up and took it in to fellow w/ power
bleeder. Turns out trouble all along was I hadn't taken up sufficient
clearance on the rear drums; was using up the master cylinder volume by
excessive piston travel. If you haven't checked adjustment...

--

On 2011-12-12, dpb wrote:
On 12/12/2011 7:36 AM, stryped wrote:
I replaced a section of rusted brake line under my truck when I had
the gas tank out. Two things I noticed, One, I had to make a very
sharp bend in the tubing with a tubing bender. It may be slightly
kinked. I was able to blow through it without any difficulty though.
Two, I used a compression fitting where the replacement line met the
old line.
...

Bad idea imo; you really should either get a flaring kit and do it
yourself or buy preformed line. I wouldn't trust compression fittings
for the long haul in brake line application.

Well ... there are compression fittings and *real* compression
fittings. If they were the stainless steel SwageLoc ones (and properly
installed), I would trust them with anything. :-)

There are flexible hose kits; primarily they're already equipped w/ the
fittings to got into the cylinder fittings at the wheel but also can
find various kits and so on for custom use. NB that brake hose is rated
at like 3000 psi, not just ordinary rubber hose.

If the fluid is full of tiny bubbles your best bet on bleeding is to let
it set for at least a couple days and let that coalesce into larger
ones. That is indicative of low fluid and perhaps an air infiltration
when release; it's sucking air into and mixing it in with the fluid.

--


--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 13 Dec 2011 05:39:29 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2011-12-12, dpb wrote:
On 12/12/2011 7:36 AM, stryped wrote:
I replaced a section of rusted brake line under my truck when I had
the gas tank out. Two things I noticed, One, I had to make a very
sharp bend in the tubing with a tubing bender. It may be slightly
kinked. I was able to blow through it without any difficulty though.
Two, I used a compression fitting where the replacement line met the
old line.
...

Bad idea imo; you really should either get a flaring kit and do it
yourself or buy preformed line. I wouldn't trust compression fittings
for the long haul in brake line application.

Well ... there are compression fittings and *real* compression
fittings. If they were the stainless steel SwageLoc ones (and properly
installed), I would trust them with anything. :-)

True, but how many "normal" auto parts stores do you know of that
stock a useful assortment of SwageLoc fittings? Versus a regular
brass ferrule compression fitting at less than half the price...

Yes, there may be a few with an enlightened owner that has been
personally burned like that and stocks them, but the exception proves
the rule.

And you'd need the proper tooling to install them too, which would be
a non-starter to the shade-tree shyster trying to patch the car back
together fast and sell it while the patch holds.

-- Bruce --

On 2011-12-13, Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable) wrote:
On 13 Dec 2011 05:39:29 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2011-12-12, dpb wrote:

[ ... ]

Bad idea imo; you really should either get a flaring kit and do it
yourself or buy preformed line. I wouldn't trust compression fittings
for the long haul in brake line application.

Well ... there are compression fittings and *real* compression
fittings. If they were the stainless steel SwageLoc ones (and properly
installed), I would trust them with anything. :-)

True, but how many "normal" auto parts stores do you know of that
stock a useful assortment of SwageLoc fittings? Versus a regular
brass ferrule compression fitting at less than half the price...

:-)

Yes, there may be a few with an enlightened owner that has been
personally burned like that and stocks them, but the exception proves
the rule.

Agreed.

And you'd need the proper tooling to install them too, which would be
a non-starter to the shade-tree shyster trying to patch the car back
together fast and sell it while the patch holds.

Well ... all you *really* need with the SwageLoc fittings is
some open end wrenches of the right size, and the ability to count flats
after you get it finger tight -- and stop at the right count -- but the
ratcheting 'C' wrench does make it easier. :-) I've got one, but only
because I recognized it at a flea market.

And I've used the SS SwageLoc couplings and SS tubing for 6000
PSI nitrogen. Really skinny tubing at that -- I think 1/8" OD. :-)

You would also need the right kind of tubing -- certainly not
copper.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

In article , says...

On 12/12/2011 7:36 AM, stryped wrote:
I replaced a section of rusted brake line under my truck when I had
the gas tank out. Two things I noticed, One, I had to make a very
sharp bend in the tubing with a tubing bender. It may be slightly
kinked. I was able to blow through it without any difficulty though.
Two, I used a compression fitting where the replacement line met the
old line.
...

Bad idea imo; you really should either get a flaring kit and do it
yourself or buy preformed line. I wouldn't trust compression fittings
for the long haul in brake line application.

FWIW, you can borrow a double-flaring kit from Autozone or Advanced for
the price of the kit--return it and they give you your money back. It's
really puppy marketing--many people who have it decide to keep it and so
they've got a sale.

There are flexible hose kits; primarily they're already equipped w/
the
fittings to got into the cylinder fittings at the wheel but also can
find various kits and so on for custom use. NB that brake hose is rated
at like 3000 psi, not just ordinary rubber hose.

If the fluid is full of tiny bubbles your best bet on bleeding is to let
it set for at least a couple days and let that coalesce into larger
ones. That is indicative of low fluid and perhaps an air infiltration
when release; it's sucking air into and mixing it in with the fluid.

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 05:36:17 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:

I replaced a section of rusted brake line under my truck when I had
the gas tank out. Two things I noticed, One, I had to make a very
sharp bend in the tubing with a tubing bender. It may be slightly
kinked. I was able to blow through it without any difficulty though.
Two, I used a compression fitting where the replacement line met the
old line.

You never ever Ever EVER use a compression fitting on brakes - they
can't take the1000+ PSI pressure and they WILL blow off after a few
panic level stops. It is literally a ticking time bomb.

You either get a proper double-vee (SAE) or double-bubble (for some
imports) flaring tool and a new length of tubing that goes fitting to
fitting and you flare the free end to length, or you order a pre-made
one from the dealer and change the entire length of tubing

I attempted to bleed the back brakes last night with a hand operated
vacuum pump. I opened the right rear wheel screw. Nothing came out
unless you press on the brake pedal. I could completely remove the
bleeder screw and nothing would come out. The driver side rear wheel
(one closest to the repair) came out fine but could not get rid of the
hundreds of bubbles.

The line to the rear drum brakes has a Residual Pressure check valve
at the master cylinder, so the rear cylinders don't fully retract -
otherwise they would be slow to act and require a much longer pedal
stroke.

You need to two-person bleed them, and do NOT stroke the pedal all the
way to the firewall. You'll rip up the master cylinder cup seals by
forcing them into the rough part at the end of the bore that never
gets swept, and it will start leaking on you. Or you need a
professional style pressure-pot bleeder, or a vacuum bleeder.

I am second guessing everythign now. My brake light on the dash came
on.

Is a compression fitting ok to use? It came from the auto parts store
and I checked it three times and it is not leaking.
Is it ok to replace the metal line with a flexxible line? That way I
would not have to make any bends.

You change the entire length of tubing, it's the only safe way. Oh,
and with the proper steel brake line and NOT with Copper Tubing,
that'll blow just as fast - any vibration at all and it'll work-harden
and fracture.

I am thinking I need to try to bleed everything manually. (With a
helper depressing the pedal). I am so frustrated.

It's a lot easier if you get a Factory Repair Manual for your car, and
follow the practices and procedures. Note that Haynes and Chilton (et
al) are NOT the Factory Manual, and some are less complete and
accurate than others...

Here, let me point you at the Factory Service Manuals:
http://www.helminc.com/helm/product2.asp?Make=CHV&Model=CHCK&Year=1996&Categor y=1&class_2=CHV&mk=Chevrolet+%26+Geo&yr=1996&md=C% 2FK+Pickup%2FSuburban%2FBlazer&dt=Shop%2FService+I nformation&module=&from=result&Style=helm&Sku=GMT9 6CKK&itemtype=K

They are $135 plus shipping, but this is 2 thick volumes that are
guaranteed to really cover your truck. My 1998 C/K set is 4 volumes
and a good 9" high stack of phone books. The UPS man got a hernia...

Note that the factory manuals figure you're a pro mechanic at a
dealership already, so they don't cover the 'grade school' stuff like
"Lefty Loosie, Righty Tightie" that you're already supposed to know -
but that won't trip you up if you're thinking about what you're doing.
You just need to know it.

The books and online services meant for Professional Mechanics
(All-Data, etc.) also assume you're already an expert mechanic in
general, so they don't go into the theories hardly at all - but they
tend to be better on the numbers and procedures, but you pay for it.
And the Pros don't pay if the book steers them wrong, so the
publishers tend to correct errors and omissions real fast.

You might be able to do something the "Easy Way" but it's likely to
come back and bite you in the ass later.

-- Bruce --

On 12/12/2011 11:45 AM, Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable) wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 05:36:17 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

I replaced a section of rusted brake line under my truck when I had
the gas tank out. Two things I noticed, One, I had to make a very
sharp bend in the tubing with a tubing bender. It may be slightly
kinked. I was able to blow through it without any difficulty though.
Two, I used a compression fitting where the replacement line met the
old line.

You never ever Ever EVER use a compression fitting on brakes - they
can't take the1000+ PSI pressure and they WILL blow off after a few
panic level stops. It is literally a ticking time bomb.

Agreed.

You either get a proper double-vee (SAE) or double-bubble (for some
imports) flaring tool and a new length of tubing that goes fitting to
fitting and you flare the free end to length, or you order a pre-made
one from the dealer and change the entire length of tubing

There is a third option: get a new length of straight tubing with flare
fittings on each end, bend to approximate length and shape, and make
additional bends as needed to take up excess length.

On Dec 12, 11:31*am, Doug Miller
wrote:
On 12/12/2011 11:45 AM, Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable) wrote:

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 05:36:17 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

I replaced a section of rusted brake line under my truck when I had
the gas tank out. Two things I noticed, One, I had to make a very
sharp bend in the tubing with a tubing bender. It may be slightly
kinked. I was able to blow through it without any difficulty though.
Two, I used a compression fitting where the replacement line met the
old line.

You never ever Ever EVER use a compression fitting on brakes - they
can't take the1000+ PSI pressure and they WILL blow off after a few
panic level stops. *It is literally a ticking time bomb.

Agreed.



You either get a proper double-vee (SAE) or double-bubble (for some
imports) flaring tool and a new length of tubing that goes fitting to
fitting and you flare the free end to length, or you order a pre-made
one from the dealer and change the entire length of tubing

There is a third option: get a new length of straight tubing with flare
fittings on each end, bend to approximate length and shape, and make
additional bends as needed to take up excess length.

This really irritates me. I went to OReily late at night. That is what
they recommended. I even asked if it was better to flare them and they
said this would be just fine.

The problem is, the metal line runs behind the gas tank in the frame
rail and the whole line is about 10 feet from one end to the other. I
had the gas tank out to replace the fuel pump and replaced that line
while it was out becasue it was rusted and leaking. I am not sure if
there is room to work with the tank in. The compression fitting is not
behind the tank but right before it in the frame rail but kind of hard
to get to I am thinking.

On 12/12/2011 2:37 PM, stryped wrote:
....

The problem is, the metal line runs behind the gas tank in the frame
rail and the whole line is about 10 feet from one end to the other. I
had the gas tank out to replace the fuel pump and replaced that line
while it was out becasue it was rusted and leaking. I am not sure if
there is room to work with the tank in. The compression fitting is not
behind the tank but right before it in the frame rail but kind of hard
to get to I am thinking.

Bummer...hate it when that happens...I really agree I think you ought to
swap out the compression fitting, though.

I have another question, though, since you dropped the tank...the tank
on the 4x4 has developed a leak that I patched once but it has since
returned so am going to replace it. (Former owner apparently drove over
something high and pushed the bottom up and crimped a corner and it has
finally flexed enough to start a leak along the crease.)

Anyway, I propped it up and just removed the shroud to do that and
haven't actually ever dropped one. What's the way the fill spout,
lines, etc., are attached? Can one just lower it and then access them
for disconnecting? Didn't really examine when under before and have
just parked it and got a pan collecting the drip at the moment while
awaiting the replacement tank's arrival as it has been better cold and
windy so not too inclined to get out and under...

--

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 15:04:48 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 12/12/2011 2:37 PM, stryped wrote:
...

The problem is, the metal line runs behind the gas tank in the frame
rail and the whole line is about 10 feet from one end to the other. I
had the gas tank out to replace the fuel pump and replaced that line
while it was out becasue it was rusted and leaking. I am not sure if
there is room to work with the tank in. The compression fitting is not
behind the tank but right before it in the frame rail but kind of hard
to get to I am thinking.

Bummer...hate it when that happens...I really agree I think you ought to
swap out the compression fitting, though.

I have another question, though, since you dropped the tank...the tank
on the 4x4 has developed a leak that I patched once but it has since
returned so am going to replace it. (Former owner apparently drove over
something high and pushed the bottom up and crimped a corner and it has
finally flexed enough to start a leak along the crease.)

Anyway, I propped it up and just removed the shroud to do that and
haven't actually ever dropped one. What's the way the fill spout,
lines, etc., are attached? Can one just lower it and then access them
for disconnecting? Didn't really examine when under before and have
just parked it and got a pan collecting the drip at the moment while
awaiting the replacement tank's arrival as it has been better cold and
windy so not too inclined to get out and under...
The filler neck just "jam fits" into a rubber donut in the tank - can
be a royal pain to remove sometimes, and lubing it before re-assembly
makes the job a lot easier. The fuel lines can be some fun - often
there is some flexible hose between the tank unit and the main fuel
lines - it is often simpler to just cut the hose and replace with new
than to coax the flex hose off the steel lines. Use nothing but "fuel
injection" hose clamps - they clamp all the way around the hose and
won't extrude the hose through the clamp when you tighten it.
If the lines on the guage unit are rusted it might be a smart idea to
replace it when you have the tank out - save yourself the job of
taking it back out next week - or next month - or what-ever.
And if the tank straps are at all weak - replace them too

On 12/12/2011 3:37 PM, stryped wrote:
The problem is, the metal line runs behind the gas tank in the frame
rail and the whole line is about 10 feet from one end to the other. I
had the gas tank out to replace the fuel pump and replaced that line
while it was out becasue it was rusted and leaking. I am not sure if
there is room to work with the tank in. The compression fitting

which you should not be using in the first place -- weren't you listening?

is not
behind the tank but right before it in the frame rail but kind of hard
to get to I am thinking.

You shouldn't be doing this yourself, I am thinking.

stryped wrote:
On Dec 12, 11:31 am, Doug Miller
wrote:
On 12/12/2011 11:45 AM, Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable) wrote:

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 05:36:17 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
I replaced a section of rusted brake line under my truck when I had
the gas tank out. Two things I noticed, One, I had to make a very
sharp bend in the tubing with a tubing bender. It may be slightly
kinked. I was able to blow through it without any difficulty though.
Two, I used a compression fitting where the replacement line met the
old line.
You never ever Ever EVER use a compression fitting on brakes - they
can't take the1000+ PSI pressure and they WILL blow off after a few
panic level stops. It is literally a ticking time bomb.
Agreed.



You either get a proper double-vee (SAE) or double-bubble (for some
imports) flaring tool and a new length of tubing that goes fitting to
fitting and you flare the free end to length, or you order a pre-made
one from the dealer and change the entire length of tubing
There is a third option: get a new length of straight tubing with flare
fittings on each end, bend to approximate length and shape, and make
additional bends as needed to take up excess length.

This really irritates me. I went to OReily late at night. That is what
they recommended. I even asked if it was better to flare them and they
said this would be just fine.

The problem is, the metal line runs behind the gas tank in the frame
rail and the whole line is about 10 feet from one end to the other. I
had the gas tank out to replace the fuel pump and replaced that line
while it was out becasue it was rusted and leaking. I am not sure if
there is room to work with the tank in. The compression fitting is not
behind the tank but right before it in the frame rail but kind of hard
to get to I am thinking.

Not a big deal, You can buy rolls of brake line reasonable at most parts
stores.
Measure the old line for diameter, then look at the fittings on the
ends. If they are in good shape all you need is the proper double flare
tool, a saw or other cutting device and a bender. Try to route it close
to the old line, that way you can use the old brackets to hold it in
place (you can use nylon cable clamps instead of steel ones.

By carefully routing the old line and paying attention you will only
need to flare two ends. Make SURE you plug the ends of the line before
you route it through the truck, you don't want crud in the line. It's
also a good idea to flush the line with fluid a bit before hooking it up
all the way. The advantage of replacing the entire line is that you now
have NEW line all the way back. No extra fittings or places that can
cause problems.

Make sure you square off and DEBURR the ends before you try to flare
them. And don't forget to put the fittings onto the line BEFORE you
flare it. I usually put the front fitting on the tube, then flare it and
tape it all up good, then run the line and bend as needed. Then cut and
flare the rear fitting.

--
Steve W.

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 08:45:51 -0800, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 05:36:17 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:

I replaced a section of rusted brake line under my truck when I had
the gas tank out. Two things I noticed, One, I had to make a very
sharp bend in the tubing with a tubing bender. It may be slightly
kinked. I was able to blow through it without any difficulty though.
Two, I used a compression fitting where the replacement line met the
old line.

You never ever Ever EVER use a compression fitting on brakes - they
can't take the1000+ PSI pressure and they WILL blow off after a few
panic level stops. It is literally a ticking time bomb.

You either get a proper double-vee (SAE) or double-bubble (for some
imports) flaring tool and a new length of tubing that goes fitting to
fitting and you flare the free end to length, or you order a pre-made
one from the dealer and change the entire length of tubing

I attempted to bleed the back brakes last night with a hand operated
vacuum pump. I opened the right rear wheel screw. Nothing came out
unless you press on the brake pedal. I could completely remove the
bleeder screw and nothing would come out. The driver side rear wheel
(one closest to the repair) came out fine but could not get rid of the
hundreds of bubbles.

The line to the rear drum brakes has a Residual Pressure check valve
at the master cylinder, so the rear cylinders don't fully retract -
otherwise they would be slow to act and require a much longer pedal
stroke.

You need to two-person bleed them, and do NOT stroke the pedal all the
way to the firewall. You'll rip up the master cylinder cup seals by
forcing them into the rough part at the end of the bore that never
gets swept, and it will start leaking on you. Or you need a
professional style pressure-pot bleeder, or a vacuum bleeder.

I am second guessing everythign now. My brake light on the dash came
on.

Is a compression fitting ok to use? It came from the auto parts store
and I checked it three times and it is not leaking.
Is it ok to replace the metal line with a flexxible line? That way I
would not have to make any bends.

You change the entire length of tubing, it's the only safe way. Oh,
and with the proper steel brake line and NOT with Copper Tubing,
that'll blow just as fast - any vibration at all and it'll work-harden
and fracture.

I am thinking I need to try to bleed everything manually. (With a
helper depressing the pedal). I am so frustrated.

It's a lot easier if you get a Factory Repair Manual for your car, and
follow the practices and procedures. Note that Haynes and Chilton (et
al) are NOT the Factory Manual, and some are less complete and
accurate than others...

Here, let me point you at the Factory Service Manuals:
http://www.helminc.com/helm/product2.asp?Make=CHV&Model=CHCK&Year=1996&Categor y=1&class_2=CHV&mk=Chevrolet+%26+Geo&yr=1996&md=C% 2FK+Pickup%2FSuburban%2FBlazer&dt=Shop%2FService+I nformation&module=&from=result&Style=helm&Sku=GMT9 6CKK&itemtype=K

They are $135 plus shipping, but this is 2 thick volumes that are
guaranteed to really cover your truck. My 1998 C/K set is 4 volumes
and a good 9" high stack of phone books. The UPS man got a hernia...

Note that the factory manuals figure you're a pro mechanic at a
dealership already, so they don't cover the 'grade school' stuff like
"Lefty Loosie, Righty Tightie" that you're already supposed to know -
but that won't trip you up if you're thinking about what you're doing.
You just need to know it.

The books and online services meant for Professional Mechanics
(All-Data, etc.) also assume you're already an expert mechanic in
general, so they don't go into the theories hardly at all - but they
tend to be better on the numbers and procedures, but you pay for it.
And the Pros don't pay if the book steers them wrong, so the
publishers tend to correct errors and omissions real fast.

You might be able to do something the "Easy Way" but it's likely to
come back and bite you in the ass later.

-- Bruce --

Everything Bruce said PLUS
If you need to ask these questions you have NO BUSINESS working on
safety critical systems like brakes - on a BICYCLE, much less a truck.

It is possible to "one man bleed" those brakes 99% without any special
tools - but it is an aquired skill. With a length of small hose to fit
the bleeder screw and a bottle it is a whole lot easier and you get it
100%.

Replacing the whole line is the only sensible way for an amateur to
repair a brake line because flaring the line (in place) also requires
some skill - you don't get it right the first time - and you do need
to know quite accurately how much line you need to buy the right
combination of ready flared lines and fittings to avoid having to
make too many complex bends and thread them through all the tight
spots in the average vehicle framework.

I have replaced partial lines on many vehicles over the years, using
proper flared lines and fittings - and flaring the lines on the
vehicle - but I'm a licenced mechanic who did it for quite a number of
years as part of my job - and I was properly trained and supervised
the first number of times to be sure I was doing it right.

Most DEFINITELY no copper lines, and no mickey-mousing around with
extra flex hoses, and NO compression fittings.

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 20:31:13 -0500, wrote:

I have replaced partial lines on many vehicles over the years, using
proper flared lines and fittings - and flaring the lines on the
vehicle - but I'm a licenced mechanic who did it for quite a number of
years as part of my job - and I was properly trained and supervised
the first number of times to be sure I was doing it right.

Most DEFINITELY no copper lines, and no mickey-mousing around with
extra flex hoses, and NO compression fittings.

In 1970..I bought a 62 Rambler Stationwagon..and I drove it home. A few
hours later. I got a call to go to work and I made it as far as the
single red light in town. At the appropriate distance from the yellow
about to turn red stoplight..I applied the brakes..and I felt something
funny..and stomped on them hard. At which point the light changed to
red..and I was still traveling at the same speed. That white Mustang
entered the intersection and I smashed into the passenger door and
nearly flipped the Stang..and we came to a sudden rattling halt.

Getting out of the car..I checked the driver of the other vehicle..and
he was ok..but was utterly ****ed..he had just restored/rebuilt it and
was out on his test drive.

When the Michigan State Police showed up..he asked all the
questions..and I told him I had just bought the car from so and so..and
the brakes failed. He walked to the back of my car..then looking
downwards...followed the trail of brake fluid a full half block from the
scene. He agreed that they had indeed failed..and when the tow truck
came and lifted up the Rambler..he looked underneith it..and called me
over..and pointed out the brand new copper lines that had been used to
repair the leaking brake lines. He took the name of the seller..and
from what I understand..had quite a face to face with the *******.

I got a $17 ticket for failure to stop at a stoplight..which was
suspended by the judge at the recommendation of the trooper. I had a
shop replace the ****ed up copper lines, and I sledgehammered the bumper
back into some semblance of normal and drove it for another 18 months
before I left for overseas.

That was the 1st of 2 tickets Ive gotten in my life..and the 3-5 million
miles Ive driven over the years..and Ill never forget that feeling of
"oh ****!" as the brake pedal went right to the floor..and it never
pumped up..

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 20:31:13 -0500, wrote:

I have replaced partial lines on many vehicles over the years, using
proper flared lines and fittings - and flaring the lines on the
vehicle - but I'm a licenced mechanic who did it for quite a number of
years as part of my job - and I was properly trained and supervised
the first number of times to be sure I was doing it right.

Most DEFINITELY no copper lines, and no mickey-mousing around with
extra flex hoses, and NO compression fittings.

In 1970..I bought a 62 Rambler Stationwagon..and I drove it home. A few
hours later. I got a call to go to work and I made it as far as the
single red light in town. At the appropriate distance from the yellow
about to turn red stoplight..I applied the brakes..and I felt something
funny..and stomped on them hard. At which point the light changed to
red..and I was still traveling at the same speed. That white Mustang
entered the intersection and I smashed into the passenger door and
nearly flipped the Stang..and we came to a sudden rattling halt.

Getting out of the car..I checked the driver of the other vehicle..and
he was ok..but was utterly ****ed..he had just restored/rebuilt it and
was out on his test drive.

When the Michigan State Police showed up..he asked all the
questions..and I told him I had just bought the car from so and so..and
the brakes failed. He walked to the back of my car..then looking
downwards...followed the trail of brake fluid a full half block from the
scene. He agreed that they had indeed failed..and when the tow truck
came and lifted up the Rambler..he looked underneith it..and called me
over..and pointed out the brand new copper lines that had been used to
repair the leaking brake lines. He took the name of the seller..and
from what I understand..had quite a face to face with the *******.

I got a $17 ticket for failure to stop at a stoplight..which was
suspended by the judge at the recommendation of the trooper. I had a
shop replace the ****ed up copper lines, and I sledgehammered the bumper
back into some semblance of normal and drove it for another 18 months
before I left for overseas.

That was the 1st of 2 tickets Ive gotten in my life..and the 3-5 million
miles Ive driven over the years..and Ill never forget that feeling of
"oh ****!" as the brake pedal went right to the floor..and it never
pumped up..


Like that one trucking tale they play late at night on some radio
stations. "I hit the brakes and it felt like an overripe tomato."


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
...


Like that one trucking tale they play late at night on some radio
stations. "I hit the brakes and it felt like an overripe tomato."



Close, The actual lyric is " He cocked his leg, stepped down hard as he
could on the brake, The pedal went clear to the floor and stayed, right
there on the floor" he said "It's sorta like steppin' on a plum"

From C.W. McCall (AKA Bill Fries)
Want a trivia question? What was the name of his backing band during the
tours? And who are they now?

--
Steve W.

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 08:45:51 -0800, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 05:36:17 -0800 (PST), stryped
wrote:

I replaced a section of rusted brake line under my truck when I had
the gas tank out. Two things I noticed, One, I had to make a very
sharp bend in the tubing with a tubing bender. It may be slightly
kinked. I was able to blow through it without any difficulty though.
Two, I used a compression fitting where the replacement line met the
old line.

You never ever Ever EVER use a compression fitting on brakes - they
can't take the1000+ PSI pressure and they WILL blow off after a few
panic level stops. It is literally a ticking time bomb.

You either get a proper double-vee (SAE) or double-bubble (for some
imports) flaring tool and a new length of tubing that goes fitting to
fitting and you flare the free end to length, or you order a pre-made
one from the dealer and change the entire length of tubing

I attempted to bleed the back brakes last night with a hand operated
vacuum pump. I opened the right rear wheel screw. Nothing came out
unless you press on the brake pedal. I could completely remove the
bleeder screw and nothing would come out. The driver side rear wheel
(one closest to the repair) came out fine but could not get rid of the
hundreds of bubbles.

The line to the rear drum brakes has a Residual Pressure check valve
at the master cylinder, so the rear cylinders don't fully retract -
otherwise they would be slow to act and require a much longer pedal
stroke.

You need to two-person bleed them, and do NOT stroke the pedal all the
way to the firewall. You'll rip up the master cylinder cup seals by
forcing them into the rough part at the end of the bore that never
gets swept, and it will start leaking on you. Or you need a
professional style pressure-pot bleeder, or a vacuum bleeder.

I am second guessing everythign now. My brake light on the dash came
on.

Is a compression fitting ok to use? It came from the auto parts store
and I checked it three times and it is not leaking.
Is it ok to replace the metal line with a flexxible line? That way I
would not have to make any bends.

You change the entire length of tubing, it's the only safe way. Oh,
and with the proper steel brake line and NOT with Copper Tubing,
that'll blow just as fast - any vibration at all and it'll work-harden
and fracture.

I am thinking I need to try to bleed everything manually. (With a
helper depressing the pedal). I am so frustrated.

It's a lot easier if you get a Factory Repair Manual for your car, and
follow the practices and procedures. Note that Haynes and Chilton (et
al) are NOT the Factory Manual, and some are less complete and
accurate than others...

Here, let me point you at the Factory Service Manuals:
http://www.helminc.com/helm/product2.asp?Make=CHV&Model=CHCK&Year=1996&Categor y=1&class_2=CHV&mk=Chevrolet+%26+Geo&yr=1996&md=C% 2FK+Pickup%2FSuburban%2FBlazer&dt=Shop%2FService+I nformation&module=&from=result&Style=helm&Sku=GMT9 6CKK&itemtype=K

They are $135 plus shipping, but this is 2 thick volumes that are
guaranteed to really cover your truck. My 1998 C/K set is 4 volumes
and a good 9" high stack of phone books. The UPS man got a hernia...

Note that the factory manuals figure you're a pro mechanic at a
dealership already, so they don't cover the 'grade school' stuff like
"Lefty Loosie, Righty Tightie" that you're already supposed to know -
but that won't trip you up if you're thinking about what you're doing.
You just need to know it.

The books and online services meant for Professional Mechanics
(All-Data, etc.) also assume you're already an expert mechanic in
general, so they don't go into the theories hardly at all - but they
tend to be better on the numbers and procedures, but you pay for it.
And the Pros don't pay if the book steers them wrong, so the
publishers tend to correct errors and omissions real fast.

You might be able to do something the "Easy Way" but it's likely to
come back and bite you in the ass later.

-- Bruce --

Everything Bruce said PLUS
If you need to ask these questions you have NO BUSINESS working on
safety critical systems like brakes - on a BICYCLE, much less a truck.

It is possible to "one man bleed" those brakes 99% without any special
tools - but it is an aquired skill. With a length of small hose to fit
the bleeder screw and a bottle it is a whole lot easier and you get it
100%.

A set of Speed Bleeders http://www.speedbleeder.com/size.htm makes the
job a whole lot easier.

Replacing the whole line is the only sensible way for an amateur to
repair a brake line because flaring the line (in place) also requires
some skill - you don't get it right the first time - and you do need
to know quite accurately how much line you need to buy the right
combination of ready flared lines and fittings to avoid having to
make too many complex bends and thread them through all the tight
spots in the average vehicle framework.

I have replaced partial lines on many vehicles over the years, using
proper flared lines and fittings - and flaring the lines on the
vehicle - but I'm a licenced mechanic who did it for quite a number of
years as part of my job - and I was properly trained and supervised
the first number of times to be sure I was doing it right.

Most DEFINITELY no copper lines, and no mickey-mousing around with
extra flex hoses, and NO compression fittings.

stryped wrote:
I replaced a section of rusted brake line under my truck when I had
the gas tank out. Two things I noticed, One, I had to make a very
sharp bend in the tubing with a tubing bender. It may be slightly
kinked. I was able to blow through it without any difficulty though.
Two, I used a compression fitting where the replacement line met the
old line.

I attempted to bleed the back brakes last night with a hand operated
vacuum pump. I opened the right rear wheel screw. Nothing came out
unless you press on the brake pedal. I could completely remove the
bleeder screw and nothing would come out. The driver side rear wheel
(one closest to the repair) came out fine but could not get rid of the
hundreds of bubbles.

I am second guessing everythign now. My brake light on the dash came
on.

Is a compression fitting ok to use? It came from the auto parts store
and I checked it three times and it is not leaking.

Not legally.

Is it ok to replace the metal line with a flexxible line? That way I
would not have to make any bends.

Unless you kinked it flat it should be fine.


I am thinking I need to try to bleed everything manually. (With a
helper depressing the pedal). I am so frustrated.

Yep. vacuum bleeding doesn't work very well unless it's a new vehicle
with tight seals. Otherwise the vacuum draws air past the seals.

Best option is to borrow/rent a pressure bleeder. Connect it up and
bleed ALL the lines. Especially if it has any form of ABS on it.

--
Steve W.

In article ,
says...

stryped wrote:
I replaced a section of rusted brake line under my truck when I had
the gas tank out. Two things I noticed, One, I had to make a very
sharp bend in the tubing with a tubing bender. It may be slightly
kinked. I was able to blow through it without any difficulty though.
Two, I used a compression fitting where the replacement line met the
old line.

I attempted to bleed the back brakes last night with a hand operated
vacuum pump. I opened the right rear wheel screw. Nothing came out
unless you press on the brake pedal. I could completely remove the
bleeder screw and nothing would come out. The driver side rear wheel
(one closest to the repair) came out fine but could not get rid of the
hundreds of bubbles.

I am second guessing everythign now. My brake light on the dash came
on.

Is a compression fitting ok to use? It came from the auto parts store
and I checked it three times and it is not leaking.

Not legally.

Is it ok to replace the metal line with a flexxible line? That way I
would not have to make any bends.

Unless you kinked it flat it should be fine.


I am thinking I need to try to bleed everything manually. (With a
helper depressing the pedal). I am so frustrated.

Yep. vacuum bleeding doesn't work very well unless it's a new vehicle
with tight seals. Otherwise the vacuum draws air past the seals.

Best option is to borrow/rent a pressure bleeder. Connect it up and
bleed ALL the lines. Especially if it has any form of ABS on it.

With some ABS you have to "exercise" the ABS valve during bleeding to do
a thorough job. This takes a special electronic box and may have to be
done by a dealer or brake shop--the box is really expensive and the
parts stores don't seem to have them.