Gunner Asch wrote:
Many English motorcycles have a seperate transmission that is simply
bolted to the backside of the engine and is operated via a primary drive
chain.


Ive been pulling down the engine of my 61 Indian Chief for cleaning, and
a general checkout and ran across an issue Im a bit concerned about.
After pulling the side cover and loosening the timing chain..I noticed
my clutch basket was wobbling..so took everything down and apart and
discovered that the nut holding the center of the clutch was loose.

Not a good thing but at least the splines are still there.


There is some wear on the splined shaft from the transmission and the
clutch basket is wobbling on it with that loose nut. The center of the
clutch is a three lobed gizmo with a splned female center and I havent
measured anything yet to find out where the actual wear is..but based on
looks..its on both parts. It still has semi-decent splines..but they
are fairly loose.

It appears that the clutch center is the most worn part.

Whats the fix for this? New guts for both? Steel epoxy with release
agent on one half? I dont think there is more than .010 wear..but there
is wear and the basket rocks significantly.

Steel epoxy applied so it is on the low pressure side of the splines
should be fine.
I've done that on a couple items that have the same type problem.


Simply tightening the nut in the center of the clutch secures
everything..but since its a heavily loaded part..it drives the
transmission which then comes back out and drives the sprocket.

I would look at a different nut or make a staking device to lock that
nut in place.


When I put the splined parts together..I get about 5-10 degrees of play
when rotating the clutch parts on the splined shaft.

Just to clarify this is NOT the sliding section of the clutch correct?
I know some of those bikes had clutches like the typical Harley while
others used movable baskets instead of a pressure plate design.



Need photos or any of you English bike guys may know

Any ideas or suggestions would be great!

Gunner
"In the history of mankind, there have always been men and women who's goal
in life is to take down nations. We have just elected such a man to run our
country." - David Lloyyd (2008)


--
Steve W.

On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 11:04:27 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Many English motorcycles have a seperate transmission that is simply
bolted to the backside of the engine and is operated via a primary drive
chain.


Ive been pulling down the engine of my 61 Indian Chief for cleaning, and
a general checkout and ran across an issue Im a bit concerned about.
After pulling the side cover and loosening the timing chain..I noticed
my clutch basket was wobbling..so took everything down and apart and
discovered that the nut holding the center of the clutch was loose.

Not a good thing but at least the splines are still there.


There is some wear on the splined shaft from the transmission and the
clutch basket is wobbling on it with that loose nut. The center of the
clutch is a three lobed gizmo with a splned female center and I havent
measured anything yet to find out where the actual wear is..but based on
looks..its on both parts. It still has semi-decent splines..but they
are fairly loose.

It appears that the clutch center is the most worn part.

Whats the fix for this? New guts for both? Steel epoxy with release
agent on one half? I dont think there is more than .010 wear..but there
is wear and the basket rocks significantly.

Steel epoxy applied so it is on the low pressure side of the splines
should be fine.
I've done that on a couple items that have the same type problem.

How difficult is it to get the two parts..apart after its been filled?


Simply tightening the nut in the center of the clutch secures
everything..but since its a heavily loaded part..it drives the
transmission which then comes back out and drives the sprocket.

I would look at a different nut or make a staking device to lock that
nut in place.

Indeed. I realized after I wrote this..that there wasnt any washer or
lock washer under it. So its entirely likely it came loose via
vibration.


When I put the splined parts together..I get about 5-10 degrees of play
when rotating the clutch parts on the splined shaft.

Just to clarify this is NOT the sliding section of the clutch correct?
I know some of those bikes had clutches like the typical Harley while
others used movable baskets instead of a pressure plate design.

Correct. The engine drives a chain, which goes back to the clutch
basket..which has teeth around the bottom of the basket and spins the
clutch basket. The basket rides in bearings, and the clutch center..is
riding in the clutch basket but is being turned by this splined shaft.
So all the load goes through this spline.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biZSlTkPspo

watch the video....

The splined shaft in question is what the clutch center is attached to.
It comes through the back cover of the "case".

My RE has 4 chains doing Stuff with the engine. Primary chain drives the
clutch

Timing chain drives the lifters and oil pump (on the right side),

a chain drives the distributor or magnito..and finally..

a drive chain runs to the rear sprocket.








Need photos or any of you English bike guys may know

Any ideas or suggestions would be great!

Gunner
"In the history of mankind, there have always been men and women who's goal
in life is to take down nations. We have just elected such a man to run our
country." - David Lloyyd (2008)

"In the history of mankind, there have always been men and women who's goal
in life is to take down nations. We have just elected such a man to run our
country." - David Lloyyd (2008)

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 11:04:27 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Many English motorcycles have a seperate transmission that is simply
bolted to the backside of the engine and is operated via a primary drive
chain.


Ive been pulling down the engine of my 61 Indian Chief for cleaning, and
a general checkout and ran across an issue Im a bit concerned about.
After pulling the side cover and loosening the timing chain..I noticed
my clutch basket was wobbling..so took everything down and apart and
discovered that the nut holding the center of the clutch was loose.
Not a good thing but at least the splines are still there.

There is some wear on the splined shaft from the transmission and the
clutch basket is wobbling on it with that loose nut. The center of the
clutch is a three lobed gizmo with a splned female center and I havent
measured anything yet to find out where the actual wear is..but based on
looks..its on both parts. It still has semi-decent splines..but they
are fairly loose.

It appears that the clutch center is the most worn part.

Whats the fix for this? New guts for both? Steel epoxy with release
agent on one half? I dont think there is more than .010 wear..but there
is wear and the basket rocks significantly.
Steel epoxy applied so it is on the low pressure side of the splines
should be fine.
I've done that on a couple items that have the same type problem.

How difficult is it to get the two parts..apart after its been filled?

I cleaned it up real well. The applied the epoxy and then slid the parts
together a few times with torque applied so the material stayed on the
low torque side Then pulled them apart and let the epoxy set up.Touched
up the ends to eliminate any burrs and they were fine. Not perfect but
much better. One was for a gearbox off an OLD tractor. Another was a
clutch basket on a Jap bike.


Simply tightening the nut in the center of the clutch secures
everything..but since its a heavily loaded part..it drives the
transmission which then comes back out and drives the sprocket.
I would look at a different nut or make a staking device to lock that
nut in place.

Indeed. I realized after I wrote this..that there wasnt any washer or
lock washer under it. So its entirely likely it came loose via
vibration.

What an old Indian ViBrAtEs..... NAAA

When I put the splined parts together..I get about 5-10 degrees of play
when rotating the clutch parts on the splined shaft.
Just to clarify this is NOT the sliding section of the clutch correct?
I know some of those bikes had clutches like the typical Harley while
others used movable baskets instead of a pressure plate design.

Correct. The engine drives a chain, which goes back to the clutch
basket..which has teeth around the bottom of the basket and spins the
clutch basket. The basket rides in bearings, and the clutch center..is
riding in the clutch basket but is being turned by this splined shaft.
So all the load goes through this spline.

Yeah same basic idea as a hog trans.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biZSlTkPspo

watch the video....

The splined shaft in question is what the clutch center is attached to.
It comes through the back cover of the "case".

My RE has 4 chains doing Stuff with the engine. Primary chain drives the
clutch

Timing chain drives the lifters and oil pump (on the right side),

a chain drives the distributor or magnito..and finally..

a drive chain runs to the rear sprocket.






Need photos or any of you English bike guys may know

Any ideas or suggestions would be great!

Gunner
"In the history of mankind, there have always been men and women who's goal
in life is to take down nations. We have just elected such a man to run our
country." - David Lloyyd (2008)


Actually you could probably get away with just cleaning it REAL well and
using some loctite bearing retainer from the outside. Tighten the nut
down and stake it and call it done. If you need to tear it down at a
later date you can just use a bit of heat and pull it off. Or see what a
hub would run and use some loctite on it. I have replaced one clutch
pack on bikes I have had. Most of them never needed replacement and I
rode a LOT.

--
Steve W.

On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 12:12:48 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 11:04:27 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Many English motorcycles have a seperate transmission that is simply
bolted to the backside of the engine and is operated via a primary drive
chain.


Ive been pulling down the engine of my 61 Indian Chief for cleaning, and
a general checkout and ran across an issue Im a bit concerned about.
After pulling the side cover and loosening the timing chain..I noticed
my clutch basket was wobbling..so took everything down and apart and
discovered that the nut holding the center of the clutch was loose.

Not a good thing but at least the splines are still there.


There is some wear on the splined shaft from the transmission and the
clutch basket is wobbling on it with that loose nut. The center of the
clutch is a three lobed gizmo with a splned female center and I havent
measured anything yet to find out where the actual wear is..but based on
looks..its on both parts. It still has semi-decent splines..but they
are fairly loose.

It appears that the clutch center is the most worn part.

Whats the fix for this? New guts for both? Steel epoxy with release
agent on one half? I dont think there is more than .010 wear..but there
is wear and the basket rocks significantly.

Steel epoxy applied so it is on the low pressure side of the splines
should be fine.
I've done that on a couple items that have the same type problem.

How difficult is it to get the two parts..apart after its been filled?


About 600 degrees. If one part is perfect, and the other worn, you
can wax the perfect side before assembly and it will pull apart
relatively easily down the road. Doesn't work on 2 badly worn parts.

On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 17:01:34 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 11:04:27 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
Many English motorcycles have a seperate transmission that is simply
bolted to the backside of the engine and is operated via a primary drive
chain.


Ive been pulling down the engine of my 61 Indian Chief for cleaning, and
a general checkout and ran across an issue Im a bit concerned about.
After pulling the side cover and loosening the timing chain..I noticed
my clutch basket was wobbling..so took everything down and apart and
discovered that the nut holding the center of the clutch was loose.
Not a good thing but at least the splines are still there.

There is some wear on the splined shaft from the transmission and the
clutch basket is wobbling on it with that loose nut. The center of the
clutch is a three lobed gizmo with a splned female center and I havent
measured anything yet to find out where the actual wear is..but based on
looks..its on both parts. It still has semi-decent splines..but they
are fairly loose.

It appears that the clutch center is the most worn part.

Whats the fix for this? New guts for both? Steel epoxy with release
agent on one half? I dont think there is more than .010 wear..but there
is wear and the basket rocks significantly.
Steel epoxy applied so it is on the low pressure side of the splines
should be fine.
I've done that on a couple items that have the same type problem.

How difficult is it to get the two parts..apart after its been filled?

I cleaned it up real well. The applied the epoxy and then slid the parts
together a few times with torque applied so the material stayed on the
low torque side Then pulled them apart and let the epoxy set up.Touched
up the ends to eliminate any burrs and they were fine. Not perfect but
much better. One was for a gearbox off an OLD tractor. Another was a
clutch basket on a Jap bike.


Simply tightening the nut in the center of the clutch secures
everything..but since its a heavily loaded part..it drives the
transmission which then comes back out and drives the sprocket.
I would look at a different nut or make a staking device to lock that
nut in place.

Indeed. I realized after I wrote this..that there wasnt any washer or
lock washer under it. So its entirely likely it came loose via
vibration.

What an old Indian ViBrAtEs..... NAAA

When I put the splined parts together..I get about 5-10 degrees of play
when rotating the clutch parts on the splined shaft.
Just to clarify this is NOT the sliding section of the clutch correct?
I know some of those bikes had clutches like the typical Harley while
others used movable baskets instead of a pressure plate design.

Correct. The engine drives a chain, which goes back to the clutch
basket..which has teeth around the bottom of the basket and spins the
clutch basket. The basket rides in bearings, and the clutch center..is
riding in the clutch basket but is being turned by this splined shaft.
So all the load goes through this spline.

Yeah same basic idea as a hog trans.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biZSlTkPspo

watch the video....

The splined shaft in question is what the clutch center is attached to.
It comes through the back cover of the "case".

My RE has 4 chains doing Stuff with the engine. Primary chain drives the
clutch

Timing chain drives the lifters and oil pump (on the right side),

a chain drives the distributor or magnito..and finally..

a drive chain runs to the rear sprocket.






Need photos or any of you English bike guys may know

Any ideas or suggestions would be great!

Gunner
"In the history of mankind, there have always been men and women who's goal
in life is to take down nations. We have just elected such a man to run our
country." - David Lloyyd (2008)


Actually you could probably get away with just cleaning it REAL well and
using some loctite bearing retainer from the outside. Tighten the nut
down and stake it and call it done. If you need to tear it down at a
later date you can just use a bit of heat and pull it off. Or see what a
hub would run and use some loctite on it. I have replaced one clutch
pack on bikes I have had. Most of them never needed replacement and I
rode a LOT.

Good to know. The only reason I was concerned..was if I rode a lot and
then needed to replace the drive sprocket. Its wedged between the tranny
and the primary housing. Changing the chain is easy..pull the link and
drop it around..but the sprocket itself...cringe

Gunner

"In the history of mankind, there have always been men and women who's goal
in life is to take down nations. We have just elected such a man to run our
country." - David Lloyyd (2008)