On Jul 16, 8:40*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

When was the last time you read a high school American History textbook,
Clark? That assumes you *ever* read one, of course.

Ed Huntress

It looks like I may be wrong about this.
You got me.

My kids are 21 and 24.

I did not read their history books.

I did not read MY history books.
I tested the highest in my jr high in social studies, top 1% in
standardized tests, at the beginning of the 9th grade to see what we
had learned in the 8th grade American history.
I often had the highest test scores in all the classes of my high
school in the 10th grade, ~ 240 10th graders.
In both the 8th and 10th grade I did not do ANY homework in ANY class.
I have the ability to do well on multiple choice tests with a minimum
of knowledge.

But I can't always win.

My son and my father got engineering degrees from the U of Wash,
without doing homework.
I really tried hard to do that too, but I was not smart enough.
With horrible accumulated deficiencies, I was forced to do homework
every day in my last year to get an engineering degree from the U of
Wash.

And my father and my son have never wasted time posting anything on
the internet, and look at me... visiting rec.crafts.metalworking, as
if my time was worth nothing.

"Clark" wrote in message
...
On Jul 16, 8:40 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

When was the last time you read a high school American History textbook,
Clark? That assumes you *ever* read one, of course.

Ed Huntress

It looks like I may be wrong about this.
You got me.

That's not my object. We all make mistakes. However, these narratives that
start off with attidudes and ideology and end up becoming an entrenched myth
are bad news.

My kids are 21 and 24.

Mine is 23.

I did not read their history books.

It's a habit from my misspent youth. d8-)

I did not read MY history books.
I tested the highest in my jr high in social studies, top 1% in
standardized tests, at the beginning of the 9th grade to see what we
had learned in the 8th grade American history.
I often had the highest test scores in all the classes of my high
school in the 10th grade, ~ 240 10th graders.
In both the 8th and 10th grade I did not do ANY homework in ANY class.
I have the ability to do well on multiple choice tests with a minimum
of knowledge.

That's quite a remarkable ability.

But I can't always win.

My son and my father got engineering degrees from the U of Wash,
without doing homework.
I really tried hard to do that too, but I was not smart enough.
With horrible accumulated deficiencies, I was forced to do homework
every day in my last year to get an engineering degree from the U of
Wash.

And my father and my son have never wasted time posting anything on
the internet, and look at me... visiting rec.crafts.metalworking, as
if my time was worth nothing.

And look at all the rest of us, too. Sheesh.

As for today's education, I've seen how good it is when it's done well. My
wife is a teacher and my son is a think-tank researcher, going for a
Master's degree in math at Georgetown next month. I follow it all very
closely, and was very active with the school board and so on.

My town's schools are well above average but I'm impressed. It's so much
better when when we were in school. And I graduated from what was then one
of the top-ranked public high schools in the country (Princeton High School,
full of Princeton University sons and daughters).

The problem is not how or what they teach today. The problem is that we've
so debased and demeaned public education that only the best schools, with
involved parents, can really take advantage of the resources and the
teaching skills that represent the best of American education. The rest are
suffering from a profession that's generally held in lower esteem than ever,
and an over-politicized scheme of management and decision-making.

The books are much better, except where state school boards have dictated
that stupidity and ignorance will be the ruling principles. Thus, my
references to Texas and Kansas.

--
Ed Huntress

On Jul 16, 2:56*pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:



The problem is that we've
so debased and demeaned public education that only the best schools, with
involved parents, can really take advantage of the resources and the
teaching skills that represent the best of American education.

--
Ed Huntress

You seem to be saying that ordinary schools can not take advantage of
the best American education resources and teaching skills because we
have said that public education is not good.

Do you mean that ordinary school do not take advantage of the best
American education resources and teaching skills, and therefore we say
public education is not good?

Dan

wrote in message
...
On Jul 16, 2:56 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:



The problem is that we've
so debased and demeaned public education that only the best schools, with
involved parents, can really take advantage of the resources and the
teaching skills that represent the best of American education.

--
Ed Huntress

You seem to be saying that ordinary schools can not take advantage of
the best American education resources and teaching skills because we
have said that public education is not good.

That's basically it. If you have a teacher's college nearby, stop in for a
hamburger and pay attention to the students. They aren't particularly good,
and the reasons are that they're underpaid, underappreciated, and they work
in a low-prestige job.

In South Korea, based on purchasing-power and average-salary comparisons,
they pay teachers 2.5 times what they pay them here. And getting into a
teaching program is as hard as getting into medical school, if not harder.
Their teachers are the best of their students and the work is high prestige,
as well as being highly paid. And South Korea beats our pants off in
education.

Do you mean that ordinary school do not take advantage of the best
American education resources and teaching skills, and therefore we say
public education is not good?

Their teachers, on the whole, are not very good. Their school boards often
strive to meet only minimum state requirements. Their curriculum committees
are limited in what programs and materials they can recommend.

--
Ed Huntress

Dan

On 7/16/2011 1:56 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

And look at all the rest of us, too. Sheesh.

As for today's education, I've seen how good it is when it's done well. My
wife is a teacher and my son is a think-tank researcher, going for a
Master's degree in math at Georgetown next month. I follow it all very
closely, and was very active with the school board and so on.

My town's schools are well above average but I'm impressed. It's so much
better when when we were in school. And I graduated from what was then one
of the top-ranked public high schools in the country (Princeton High School,
full of Princeton University sons and daughters).

The problem is not how or what they teach today. The problem is that we've
so debased and demeaned public education that only the best schools, with
involved parents, can really take advantage of the resources and the
teaching skills that represent the best of American education. The rest are
suffering from a profession that's generally held in lower esteem than ever,
and an over-politicized scheme of management and decision-making.

The books are much better, except where state school boards have dictated
that stupidity and ignorance will be the ruling principles. Thus, my
references to Texas and Kansas.

I am the older of two CNC programmers where I work. The other day, I
explained to the other programmer, in his early 30's, that there are two
cups in a pint, two pints in a quart, and four quarts in a gallon. I
learned this in second grade, although it was covered several times
again when I went to school in the mid '50's. He was taught in the
Milwaukee Public School system and didn't know basic English system
measures. My German girlfriend, about his same age and raised with the
metric system in Germany, knows the English measures.

David

"David R. Birch" wrote in message
...
On 7/16/2011 1:56 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

And look at all the rest of us, too. Sheesh.

As for today's education, I've seen how good it is when it's done well.
My
wife is a teacher and my son is a think-tank researcher, going for a
Master's degree in math at Georgetown next month. I follow it all very
closely, and was very active with the school board and so on.

My town's schools are well above average but I'm impressed. It's so much
better when when we were in school. And I graduated from what was then
one
of the top-ranked public high schools in the country (Princeton High
School,
full of Princeton University sons and daughters).

The problem is not how or what they teach today. The problem is that
we've
so debased and demeaned public education that only the best schools, with
involved parents, can really take advantage of the resources and the
teaching skills that represent the best of American education. The rest
are
suffering from a profession that's generally held in lower esteem than
ever,
and an over-politicized scheme of management and decision-making.

The books are much better, except where state school boards have dictated
that stupidity and ignorance will be the ruling principles. Thus, my
references to Texas and Kansas.

I am the older of two CNC programmers where I work. The other day, I
explained to the other programmer, in his early 30's, that there are two
cups in a pint, two pints in a quart, and four quarts in a gallon.

What were you programming, a Cuisinart? g

Unless one cooks, or is as old as many of us here, I don't think that has
much relevance to most young peoples' lives.

I learned this in second grade, although it was covered several times
again when I went to school in the mid '50's. He was taught in the
Milwaukee Public School system and didn't know basic English system
measures. My German girlfriend, about his same age and raised with the
metric system in Germany, knows the English measures.

Why? Is she a good cook?

--
Ed Huntress


David

On 7/16/2011 5:13 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"David R. wrote in message
...
On 7/16/2011 1:56 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

And look at all the rest of us, too. Sheesh.

As for today's education, I've seen how good it is when it's done well.
My
wife is a teacher and my son is a think-tank researcher, going for a
Master's degree in math at Georgetown next month. I follow it all very
closely, and was very active with the school board and so on.

My town's schools are well above average but I'm impressed. It's so much
better when when we were in school. And I graduated from what was then
one
of the top-ranked public high schools in the country (Princeton High
School,
full of Princeton University sons and daughters).

The problem is not how or what they teach today. The problem is that
we've
so debased and demeaned public education that only the best schools, with
involved parents, can really take advantage of the resources and the
teaching skills that represent the best of American education. The rest
are
suffering from a profession that's generally held in lower esteem than
ever,
and an over-politicized scheme of management and decision-making.

The books are much better, except where state school boards have dictated
that stupidity and ignorance will be the ruling principles. Thus, my
references to Texas and Kansas.

I am the older of two CNC programmers where I work. The other day, I
explained to the other programmer, in his early 30's, that there are two
cups in a pint, two pints in a quart, and four quarts in a gallon.

What were you programming, a Cuisinart?g

CNC LASERs and a waterjet.

The liquid measures came up in a discussion of ...adult beverages...

Unless one cooks, or is as old as many of us here, I don't think that has
much relevance to most young peoples' lives.

I'm often dismayed by what is and isn't relevant in most young people's
lives. When I shop in the US, most of the groceries still use English
measures.

I learned this in second grade, although it was covered several times
again when I went to school in the mid '50's. He was taught in the
Milwaukee Public School system and didn't know basic English system
measures. My German girlfriend, about his same age and raised with the
metric system in Germany, knows the English measures.

Why? Is she a good cook?

No, she doesn't cook much more than I do, which means heating prepared
products in the oven or microwave.

She does tend to think in metric measures and finds it amusing when I
complain about US gas prices, considering her parents in NRW pay 2-1/2
what we do.

David

"David R. Birch" wrote in message
...
On 7/16/2011 5:13 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"David R. wrote in message
...
On 7/16/2011 1:56 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

And look at all the rest of us, too. Sheesh.

As for today's education, I've seen how good it is when it's done well.
My
wife is a teacher and my son is a think-tank researcher, going for a
Master's degree in math at Georgetown next month. I follow it all very
closely, and was very active with the school board and so on.

My town's schools are well above average but I'm impressed. It's so
much
better when when we were in school. And I graduated from what was then
one
of the top-ranked public high schools in the country (Princeton High
School,
full of Princeton University sons and daughters).

The problem is not how or what they teach today. The problem is that
we've
so debased and demeaned public education that only the best schools,
with
involved parents, can really take advantage of the resources and the
teaching skills that represent the best of American education. The rest
are
suffering from a profession that's generally held in lower esteem than
ever,
and an over-politicized scheme of management and decision-making.

The books are much better, except where state school boards have
dictated
that stupidity and ignorance will be the ruling principles. Thus, my
references to Texas and Kansas.

I am the older of two CNC programmers where I work. The other day, I
explained to the other programmer, in his early 30's, that there are two
cups in a pint, two pints in a quart, and four quarts in a gallon.

What were you programming, a Cuisinart?g

CNC LASERs and a waterjet.

The liquid measures came up in a discussion of ...adult beverages...

Aha. Essential cultural knowledge. g



Unless one cooks, or is as old as many of us here, I don't think that has
much relevance to most young peoples' lives.

I'm often dismayed by what is and isn't relevant in most young people's
lives. When I shop in the US, most of the groceries still use English
measures.

True enough.


I learned this in second grade, although it was covered several times
again when I went to school in the mid '50's. He was taught in the
Milwaukee Public School system and didn't know basic English system
measures. My German girlfriend, about his same age and raised with the
metric system in Germany, knows the English measures.

Why? Is she a good cook?

No, she doesn't cook much more than I do, which means heating prepared
products in the oven or microwave.

She does tend to think in metric measures and finds it amusing when I
complain about US gas prices, considering her parents in NRW pay 2-1/2
what we do.

David

Well it is amusing, I guess. We're very good at complaining about gas prices
and taxes, while we have some of the lower costs in the developed world, on
both.

Your cup/pint example, though, is not something that I would get worked up
about, except that I think everyone should learn how to cook. g I would be
worried if they didn't know how many inches there are in a foot...

--
Ed Huntress

On 7/17/2011 2:25 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:


She does tend to think in metric measures and finds it amusing when I
complain about US gas prices, considering her parents in NRW pay 2-1/2
what we do.

David

Well it is amusing, I guess. We're very good at complaining about gas prices
and taxes, while we have some of the lower costs in the developed world, on
both.

Your cup/pint example, though, is not something that I would get worked up
about, except that I think everyone should learn how to cook.g I would be
worried if they didn't know how many inches there are in a foot...

I guess that depends on the length of the barley corns and the size of
the king's foot.

David