We needed another low-precision 13x40 lathe in the shop, and after having
reviewed all the Chinese and Taiwanese models, and talking with a few
machinists who'd bought one, we went with the Shop Fox 1098 -- a very
basic 13x40 with no real "toys" but all the basics.

It arrived Friday last, with the crate intact, and took us about an hour
to crane and wheel it into the machine room.

It turned out to be a complete lemon -- mechanical (major) defects,
finish and paint problems, missing fasteners; you name it. And it also
happened to be mis-wired, which prevented it from working AT ALL until we
trouble-shot the circuitry, and found the problem (two swapped wires in
the spindle control).

There were major things -- the gap block had been removed and replaced
with one that was not matched to the bed. The foot brake was disabled by
a missing washer. And, of course, it wouldn't run.

The thing was also MAJORLY dirty -- fingerprints and goop all over every
surface, missing paint, paint chad and metal shavings all among the
parts, evidence of disassembly after painting; even a "stray" bearing
ball floating around in the chip tray that contained about two or three
ounces of machine oil and dirt, shavings, and paint chad. (lots).

Hmmm... we identified and fixed the wiring problem, but it meant that the
lathe had NEVER been powered up. Thus, all the TIR information and other
specs in the "certification document" had been falsified. (no, duh!)

So, I contacted Shopfox.biz. Told them the tale. Waited for a three-
week response time.


WoW! They responded within two hours! Wow! They wanted to know what I
needed to make it right! Wow!

That was yesterday. Today, we had also determined that the apron gearbox
was leaking and empty of oil, so I emailed them again.

Within ONE HOUR, they called me directly, and offered to replace and
_personally_inspect_ the next machine they sent me.

Now, I know what I'm getting into with a Chinese machine, and it will
require some adjustments and time to get it working true, but this was a
real surprise! They said (basically), "We don't sell junk, and we won't
let a customer deal with this quality -- we'll ship you new at our
expense, and return the old one at our expense, and the factory can suck
it up." And they even offered a discount against the original purchase
(?).


Wow! I never expected that.

It's not a "done deal" yet, but I'll let you know how it goes.

So far, I'm pretty impressed with the importer (Woodstock tools), if not
the factory.

LLoyd

On 05/24/2011 04:42 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
We needed another low-precision 13x40 lathe in the shop, and after having
reviewed all the Chinese and Taiwanese models, and talking with a few
machinists who'd bought one, we went with the Shop Fox 1098 -- a very
basic 13x40 with no real "toys" but all the basics.

It arrived Friday last, with the crate intact, and took us about an hour
to crane and wheel it into the machine room.

It turned out to be a complete lemon -- mechanical (major) defects,
finish and paint problems, missing fasteners; you name it. And it also
happened to be mis-wired, which prevented it from working AT ALL until we
trouble-shot the circuitry, and found the problem (two swapped wires in
the spindle control).

There were major things -- the gap block had been removed and replaced
with one that was not matched to the bed. The foot brake was disabled by
a missing washer. And, of course, it wouldn't run.

The thing was also MAJORLY dirty -- fingerprints and goop all over every
surface, missing paint, paint chad and metal shavings all among the
parts, evidence of disassembly after painting; even a "stray" bearing
ball floating around in the chip tray that contained about two or three
ounces of machine oil and dirt, shavings, and paint chad. (lots).

Hmmm... we identified and fixed the wiring problem, but it meant that the
lathe had NEVER been powered up. Thus, all the TIR information and other
specs in the "certification document" had been falsified. (no, duh!)

So, I contacted Shopfox.biz. Told them the tale. Waited for a three-
week response time.


WoW! They responded within two hours! Wow! They wanted to know what I
needed to make it right! Wow!

That was yesterday. Today, we had also determined that the apron gearbox
was leaking and empty of oil, so I emailed them again.

Within ONE HOUR, they called me directly, and offered to replace and
_personally_inspect_ the next machine they sent me.

Now, I know what I'm getting into with a Chinese machine, and it will
require some adjustments and time to get it working true, but this was a
real surprise! They said (basically), "We don't sell junk, and we won't
let a customer deal with this quality -- we'll ship you new at our
expense, and return the old one at our expense, and the factory can suck
it up." And they even offered a discount against the original purchase
(?).


Wow! I never expected that.

It's not a "done deal" yet, but I'll let you know how it goes.

So far, I'm pretty impressed with the importer (Woodstock tools), if not
the factory.

Keep us posted!

Folks like that need to be rewarded -- they're certainly not going to
stay in business on price alone if that's their attitude, but it's a
_very good_ attitude to have.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On 2011-05-24, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
We needed another low-precision 13x40 lathe in the shop, and after having
reviewed all the Chinese and Taiwanese models, and talking with a few
machinists who'd bought one, we went with the Shop Fox 1098 -- a very
basic 13x40 with no real "toys" but all the basics.

It arrived Friday last, with the crate intact, and took us about an hour
to crane and wheel it into the machine room.

It turned out to be a complete lemon -- mechanical (major) defects,
finish and paint problems, missing fasteners; you name it. And it also
happened to be mis-wired, which prevented it from working AT ALL until we
trouble-shot the circuitry, and found the problem (two swapped wires in
the spindle control).

There were major things -- the gap block had been removed and replaced
with one that was not matched to the bed. The foot brake was disabled by
a missing washer. And, of course, it wouldn't run.

The thing was also MAJORLY dirty -- fingerprints and goop all over every
surface, missing paint, paint chad and metal shavings all among the
parts, evidence of disassembly after painting; even a "stray" bearing
ball floating around in the chip tray that contained about two or three
ounces of machine oil and dirt, shavings, and paint chad. (lots).

Hmmm... we identified and fixed the wiring problem, but it meant that the
lathe had NEVER been powered up. Thus, all the TIR information and other
specs in the "certification document" had been falsified. (no, duh!)

So, I contacted Shopfox.biz. Told them the tale. Waited for a three-
week response time.


WoW! They responded within two hours! Wow! They wanted to know what I
needed to make it right! Wow!

That was yesterday. Today, we had also determined that the apron gearbox
was leaking and empty of oil, so I emailed them again.

Within ONE HOUR, they called me directly, and offered to replace and
_personally_inspect_ the next machine they sent me.

Now, I know what I'm getting into with a Chinese machine, and it will
require some adjustments and time to get it working true, but this was a
real surprise! They said (basically), "We don't sell junk, and we won't
let a customer deal with this quality -- we'll ship you new at our
expense, and return the old one at our expense, and the factory can suck
it up." And they even offered a discount against the original purchase
(?).


Wow! I never expected that.

It's not a "done deal" yet, but I'll let you know how it goes.

So far, I'm pretty impressed with the importer (Woodstock tools), if not
the factory.

LLoyd

Lloyd, not to be a party pooper, but the story is not yet over. I
would not declare a victory, just that.

i

Ignoramus1699 fired this volley in
:

Lloyd, not to be a party pooper, but the story is not yet over. I
would not declare a victory, just that.

I agree... news at 11, or whenever it happens. But the response alone was
a grand event!

LLoyd

On May 24, 7:42*pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
We needed another low-precision 13x40 lathe in the shop, and after having
reviewed all the Chinese and Taiwanese models, and talking with a few
machinists who'd bought one, we went with the Shop Fox 1098 -- a very
basic 13x40 with no real "toys" but all the basics.

It arrived Friday last, with the crate intact, and took us about an hour
to crane and wheel it into the machine room.

It turned out to be a complete lemon -- mechanical (major) defects,
finish and paint problems, missing fasteners; you name it. *And it also
happened to be mis-wired, which prevented it from working AT ALL until we
trouble-shot the circuitry, and found the problem (two swapped wires in
the spindle control).

There were major things -- the gap block had been removed and replaced
with one that was not matched to the bed. *The foot brake was disabled by
a missing washer. *And, of course, it wouldn't run.

The thing was also MAJORLY dirty -- fingerprints and goop all over every
surface, missing paint, paint chad and metal shavings all among the
parts, evidence of disassembly after painting; even a "stray" bearing
ball floating around in the chip tray that contained about two or three
ounces of machine oil and dirt, shavings, and paint chad. (lots).

Hmmm... we identified and fixed the wiring problem, but it meant that the
lathe had NEVER been powered up. *Thus, all the TIR information and other
specs in the "certification document" had been falsified. *(no, duh!)

So, I contacted Shopfox.biz. *Told them the tale. *Waited for a three-
week response time.

WoW! *They responded within two hours! *Wow! *They wanted to know what I
needed to make it right! Wow!

That was yesterday. *Today, we had also determined that the apron gearbox
was leaking and empty of oil, so I emailed them again.

Within ONE HOUR, they called me directly, and offered to replace and
_personally_inspect_ the next machine they sent me.

Now, I know what I'm getting into with a Chinese machine, and it will
require some adjustments and time to get it working true, but this was a
real surprise! *They said (basically), "We don't sell junk, and we won't
let a customer deal with this quality -- we'll ship you new at our
expense, and return the old one at our expense, and the factory can suck
it up." *And they even offered a discount against the original purchase
(?).

Wow! I never expected that.

It's not a "done deal" yet, but I'll let you know how it goes.

So far, I'm pretty impressed with the importer (Woodstock tools), if not
the factory.

LLoyd

Sounds like an employee is filling orders on the side with parts from
the reject bin.


Dave

On Wed, 25 May 2011 06:01:57 -0700 (PDT), Dave__67
wrote:

On May 24, 7:42Â*pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Now, I know what I'm getting into with a Chinese machine, and it will
require some adjustments and time to get it working true, but this was a
real surprise! Â*They said (basically), "We don't sell junk, and we won't
let a customer deal with this quality -- we'll ship you new at our
expense, and return the old one at our expense, and the factory can suck
it up." Â*And they even offered a discount against the original purchase
(?).

Wow! I never expected that.

It's not a "done deal" yet, but I'll let you know how it goes.

So far, I'm pretty impressed with the importer (Woodstock tools), if not
the factory.

LLoyd

Sounds like an employee is filling orders on the side with parts from
the reject bin.

When I made my order with Griz (who imports Woodstock) on Friday, they
said the 18" bandsaw was backordered and it would be about 6 weeks. I
ordered anyway and the shipper called me Monday, 3 days later, to set
up the delivery. They also gave me a free laminate trim router as a
bonus for the order of the bandsaw and DC.

Grizzly and Woodstock are the stars of import and I'll happily shop
there again. (AAMOF, I already have, several times, both for power
tools and accessories/supplies.)

--
Education should provide the tools for a widening and deepening
of life, for increased appreciation of all one sees or experiences.
It should equip a person to live life well, to understand what is
happening around him, for to live life well one must live life with
awareness. -- Louis L'Amour

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
We needed another low-precision 13x40 lathe in the shop, and after having
reviewed all the Chinese and Taiwanese models, and talking with a few
machinists who'd bought one, we went with the Shop Fox 1098 -- a very
basic 13x40 with no real "toys" but all the basics.

It arrived Friday last, with the crate intact, and took us about an hour
to crane and wheel it into the machine room.

It turned out to be a complete lemon -- mechanical (major) defects,
finish and paint problems, missing fasteners; you name it. And it also
happened to be mis-wired, which prevented it from working AT ALL until we
trouble-shot the circuitry, and found the problem (two swapped wires in
the spindle control).

There were major things -- the gap block had been removed and replaced
with one that was not matched to the bed. The foot brake was disabled by
a missing washer. And, of course, it wouldn't run.

The thing was also MAJORLY dirty -- fingerprints and goop all over every
surface, missing paint, paint chad and metal shavings all among the
parts, evidence of disassembly after painting; even a "stray" bearing
ball floating around in the chip tray that contained about two or three
ounces of machine oil and dirt, shavings, and paint chad. (lots).

Hmmm... we identified and fixed the wiring problem, but it meant that the
lathe had NEVER been powered up. Thus, all the TIR information and other
specs in the "certification document" had been falsified. (no, duh!)

So, I contacted Shopfox.biz. Told them the tale. Waited for a three-
week response time.


WoW! They responded within two hours! Wow! They wanted to know what I
needed to make it right! Wow!

That was yesterday. Today, we had also determined that the apron gearbox
was leaking and empty of oil, so I emailed them again.

Within ONE HOUR, they called me directly, and offered to replace and
_personally_inspect_ the next machine they sent me.

Now, I know what I'm getting into with a Chinese machine, and it will
require some adjustments and time to get it working true, but this was a
real surprise! They said (basically), "We don't sell junk, and we won't
let a customer deal with this quality -- we'll ship you new at our
expense, and return the old one at our expense, and the factory can suck
it up." And they even offered a discount against the original purchase
(?).


Wow! I never expected that.

It's not a "done deal" yet, but I'll let you know how it goes.

So far, I'm pretty impressed with the importer (Woodstock tools), if not
the factory.


Wait and see. Not to compare, but I once received a clearly used DVR from a
distributor, got a replacement that was clearly used and returned (had the
installing company's sticker on it), and then received a unit that was
covered in filth. Finally had them drop ship from the manufacturer a
replacement. The distributor sounded great on the phone, but they sent me
three used returned units in a row. I dropped them after they did similar
things to me a couple times after that.

The miswire was probably not original since it sure sounds like your machine
was a used machine. Somebody monkeyed with it and couldn't figure out how
to put it back the way it should be.

I hope it all works out as well as it sounds.

"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in news:irjcbi
:

Somebody monkeyed with it and couldn't figure out how
to put it back the way it should be.


I might think that, but the wires, lugs, and switch terminals were
completely covered in frame paint which had not been cracked or
disturbed. We had to scrape them clean just to see the wire colors.

I think it's more likely that the machine went through a complete setup
in some dirty shop before they finally tried energizing the spindle
motor, and when it failed, it got returned as-is. Then the Chinese
factory rep "refurbished and re-certified" it by building a new crate
around it.

(Ahh... You Watch and See! Round-eye not know! We sell to Someone!G)

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley in
. 3.70:


Update... Wow, again.

The new machine ships tomorrow morning, and they're crediting me for lost
time AND the cost of two more rigger trips with his fork to get it off/on
the trucks.

Again, we'll see, but they are calling me, not the other-way 'round, so
it's a good sign.

If this keeps up, I'll be a Woodstock fan.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley in
. 3.70:


Update... Wow, again.

The new machine ships tomorrow morning, and they're crediting me for lost
time AND the cost of two more rigger trips with his fork to get it off/on
the trucks.

Again, we'll see, but they are calling me, not the other-way 'round, so
it's a good sign.

If this keeps up, I'll be a Woodstock fan.

LLoyd

Cool. Keep us posted.

On May 24, 6:42*pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
So far, I'm pretty impressed with the importer (Woodstock tools), if not
the factory.

LLoyd

So what vendor did you actually buy the lathe from?

Rex fired this volley in news:d0d09882-284e-44ab-
:

So what vendor did you actually buy the lathe from?

Bought it from a local shop in Sanford, Fla, called "Utterguys tools".
They also are in the loop, and being completely cooperative.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Lloyd, not to be a party pooper, but the story is not yet over. I
would not declare a victory, just that.

I agree... news at 11, or whenever it happens. But the response alone was
a grand event!

But it will be an interesting on topic thread. I hope it works out for you Lloyd.

Wes

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:

Rex fired this volley in news:d0d09882-284e-44ab-
:

So what vendor did you actually buy the lathe from?

Bought it from a local shop in Sanford, Fla, called "Utterguys tools".
They also are in the loop, and being completely cooperative.


I wonder if that's the same outfit that used to be in Altamonte
Springs in the late '80s? They were in a small strip mall, next to an
electronics surplus store I bought parts from for Ch. 55 in Orlando.

--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Rex fired this volley in news:d0d09882-284e-44ab-
:

So what vendor did you actually buy the lathe from?

Bought it from a local shop in Sanford, Fla, called "Utterguys tools".
They also are in the loop, and being completely cooperative.

LLoyd
Well, this story is typical of today's business practices,
1. It allways pays to see the goods and try them before buying,
2. Co,s in many cases are just box shifters,going for the max profit for
the minimum effort.
3. If they had checked it before shipping to you they would never have
sent it out.
4. What has it cost them in expenses to put it right?
5.You would have done better to find a good s/hand machine of US make
even if it was 20 yrs old ,Youd have paid less and known what you were
getting.
A lesson for the supplier and the purchaser.
Same applies to everything else one purchases without seeing.

Ted Frater fired this volley in news:O2HDp.9947$8
2:

5.You would have done better to find a good s/hand machine of US make
even if it was 20 yrs old ,Youd have paid less and known what you were
getting.

You assume a lot, and have come in on this conversation about three weeks
late of where the episode began.

You assume I did not explore used American iron before choosing this one.
I did.

You assume I did not actually see, touch, and run one of this model lathe
before ordering. I did.

You seem to assume I didn't know ahead of time I'd be getting a brown box
from China. I did... have done before. Will again.

Too many assumptions about a matter you never commented on until well
after all that had been dealt with here.

LLoyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Ted Frater fired this volley in news:O2HDp.9947$8
2:

5.You would have done better to find a good s/hand machine of US make
even if it was 20 yrs old ,Youd have paid less and known what you were
getting.

You assume a lot, and have come in on this conversation about three weeks
late of where the episode began.

You assume I did not explore used American iron before choosing this one.
I did.

You assume I did not actually see, touch, and run one of this model lathe
before ordering. I did.

You seem to assume I didn't know ahead of time I'd be getting a brown box
from China. I did... have done before. Will again.

Too many assumptions about a matter you never commented on until well
after all that had been dealt with here.

LLoyd

thanks for the background to your lathe procurement.
I generally dont come in on a thread till others nearer to you have,
Ive a very nice American iron 15 by 30 lathe, Le Blond royal 1942
came as a present from uncle Sam on lease lend, all those yrs ago, and
Ive had it some 30 yrs.
A great lathe, good still to 1/2 tho.
Surprised there wasnt such a tool near you at a reasonable price.
I paid some $200.00 for mine inc delivery, and had some big metal in
it. The largest was a hammer head for my Drop stamp some 10 in dia by
3ft long.
Had to lift it into the lathe with a crane.!!
I follow most machinery threads here and have done for some 15 yrs.
Hope you eventually get what you paid for!!
If you want to know what I do Google for Ted Frater Bronzesmith and minter.
Ask Ed Huntress,
Ted Frater
In Dorset
UK.

Ted Frater fired this volley in news:loQDp.16348
:

Hope you eventually get what you paid for!!


FWIW, it's actuall in a UPS freight truck right now, scheduled for
delivery Tuesday. Got the tracking #, so these guys aren't kidding
around.

You cannot know how MUCH I appreciate that I didn't have to duke it out
with them. (been there before, too).

My problems with the older American lathes were two. All of them within
about five hundred miles of me were really beat up, or had tiny spindle
holes; smaller than what I need. An MT-5 hole is as small as my needs
can tolerate.

The ones that were in good condition would've cost me about the same as
the Chinese lathe to buy, but almost as much again just to ship as the
Chinese lathe did all-up, delivered.

And yeah... it's only about half the weight of a similarly-sized American
lathe, but it will be hard-bolted to a concrete slab, so that helps some.

LLoyd

On Wed, 25 May 2011 19:27:07 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:


Yeah... the machines are practically identical between the Shop Fox and
Grizzly lathes. (never figured why you'd paint a lathe WHITE ?!?)

Ask the folks at LaBlond.


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch