According to this article, the recently exploded reator number 3 at
Fukushima was using "mox" as a fuel.

QUOTE: "Last year, unit 3 began using some reprocessed fuel known as
"mox," a mixture of plutonium oxide and uranium oxide, produced from
recycled material from nuclear weapons as part of a program known as
"from megatons to megawatts." UNQUOTE

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...g.html?sid=101


This raises the stakes substantially if the core has been breached.
Plutonium is poisonous as all hell in addition to its high
radioavtivity and incredibly long half life.
Dave

lid wrote:

According to this article, the recently exploded reator number 3 at
Fukushima was using "mox" as a fuel.

QUOTE: "Last year, unit 3 began using some reprocessed fuel known as
"mox," a mixture of plutonium oxide and uranium oxide, produced from
recycled material from nuclear weapons as part of a program known as
"from megatons to megawatts." UNQUOTE

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...g.html?sid=101


This raises the stakes substantially if the core has been breached.
Plutonium is poisonous as all hell in addition to its high
radioavtivity and incredibly long half life.

*all* nuclear power reactors end up converting
some amount of their fuel to plutonium. The
percentage depends on how long the fuel has
been in the reactor.

On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 11:59:22 -0700, Jim Stewart
wrote:

wrote:

According to this article, the recently exploded reator number 3 at
Fukushima was using "mox" as a fuel.

QUOTE: "Last year, unit 3 began using some reprocessed fuel known as
"mox," a mixture of plutonium oxide and uranium oxide, produced from
recycled material from nuclear weapons as part of a program known as
"from megatons to megawatts." UNQUOTE

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...g.html?sid=101


This raises the stakes substantially if the core has been breached.
Plutonium is poisonous as all hell in addition to its high
radioavtivity and incredibly long half life.

*all* nuclear power reactors end up converting
some amount of their fuel to plutonium. The
percentage depends on how long the fuel has
been in the reactor.

Apparently, from what I am hearing, three of the reactors at Fukushima
were shut down for refueling.....so that would be good news if that is
a factual condition. I heard this is from an "expert" guest on a
internet radio show....so I still need to do some checking.

Regards the plutonium: even as the process converts some amount of its
fuel to plutonium, using plutonium on the front end as initial fuel
vastly increases the total amount of plutonium available to create a
poisonous mess if the containment vessel has been breached.

The explosion at Fukushima #3 looks, to me, like it blew the cement
containment cap over the reactor vessel into the sky. From the videos
available it looks to be falling back to Earth to the left in the
videos. This cap is removable by a large trolley crane during the
refueling process. It is massive and would require a HUGE explosive
force to cast as far into the sky as it appears to fly.

That would indicate a reactor vessel breach and a resultant steam
explosion as the seawater they have pumped into the containment vessel
around the reactor superheated. I do not believe the Japanese
government's story of a hydrogen explosion. They would have been able
to vent much of the hydrogen before such a massive explosion
occurred.....assuming they have at least some fundamental control over
any systems whatsoever at the facility.
Dave

lid wrote:

Apparently, from what I am hearing, three of the reactors at Fukushima
were shut down for refueling.....so that would be good news if that is
a factual condition. I heard this is from an "expert" guest on a
internet radio show....so I still need to do some checking.

Regards the plutonium: even as the process converts some amount of its
fuel to plutonium, using plutonium on the front end as initial fuel
vastly increases the total amount of plutonium available to create a
poisonous mess if the containment vessel has been breached.

The explosion at Fukushima #3 looks, to me, like it blew the cement
containment cap over the reactor vessel into the sky. From the videos
available it looks to be falling back to Earth to the left in the
videos. This cap is removable by a large trolley crane during the
refueling process. It is massive and would require a HUGE explosive
force to cast as far into the sky as it appears to fly.

That would indicate a reactor vessel breach and a resultant steam
explosion as the seawater they have pumped into the containment vessel
around the reactor superheated. I do not believe the Japanese
government's story of a hydrogen explosion. They would have been able
to vent much of the hydrogen before such a massive explosion
occurred.....assuming they have at least some fundamental control over
any systems whatsoever at the facility.
Dave


Interesting assessment, Dave.

Ending with an implied question of do they have control of anything?



--

Richard Lamb

That would indicate a reactor vessel breach and a resultant steam
explosion as the seawater they have pumped into the containment vessel
around the reactor superheated. I do not believe the Japanese
government's story of a hydrogen explosion. They would have been able
to vent much of the hydrogen before such a massive explosion
occurred.....assuming they have at least some fundamental control over
any systems whatsoever at the facility.
Dave


Interesting assessment, Dave.

Ending with an implied question of do they have control of anything?

Actually, I was wondering what the motivation for misleading the world would
be at this point. I mean, if you're hurt that badly, screaming for help
seems to be the best option, not denying the injury ala the Black Knight...
("It's merely a fleshwound" guy from Monty Python's... Oh never mind. If you
didn't know it, that won't help either.)
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
TWITTER: http://twitter.com/AutoDrill
FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/AutoDrill

V8013-R

On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:15:14 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

wrote:
That would indicate a reactor vessel breach and a resultant steam
explosion as the seawater they have pumped into the containment vessel
around the reactor superheated. I do not believe the Japanese
government's story of a hydrogen explosion. They would have been able
to vent much of the hydrogen before such a massive explosion
occurred.....assuming they have at least some fundamental control over
any systems whatsoever at the facility.
Dave


Interesting assessment, Dave.
Ending with an implied question of do they have control of anything?

You can see the layout, including the cement containment cap in
question he

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/...orDesign_3.jpg

I suppose it's possible that the cap blew off without an actual breach
(meltdown) of the reactor vessel. It's possible the seawater inside
the containment vessel became superheated steam without a reactor
vessel breach, but I would think that would happen at a semi slow rate
and pressure could have been gradually vented by the control systems.
The fact that it violently blew indicates a reactor vessel breach to
me....but I could be wrong of course.
Dave

On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 16:39:54 -0400, "Joe AutoDrill"
wrote:

That would indicate a reactor vessel breach and a resultant steam
explosion as the seawater they have pumped into the containment vessel
around the reactor superheated. I do not believe the Japanese
government's story of a hydrogen explosion. They would have been able
to vent much of the hydrogen before such a massive explosion
occurred.....assuming they have at least some fundamental control over
any systems whatsoever at the facility.
Dave


Interesting assessment, Dave.

Ending with an implied question of do they have control of anything?

Actually, I was wondering what the motivation for misleading the world would
be at this point. I mean, if you're hurt that badly, screaming for help
seems to be the best option, not denying the injury ala the Black Knight...
("It's merely a fleshwound" guy from Monty Python's... Oh never mind. If you
didn't know it, that won't help either.)

That is an interesting question. I worked for a Japanese auto parts
supplier for a couple of years. If you can devise the workings of the
Asiatic mind, please illuminate me. After close working with these
people, I still find it to be a mystery. They seem to make a policy
decision, and then right or wrong, stick tenaciously to it to the
bitter end. Banzai style. Unless you've seen it up close, as a Western
individual, you will not even be aware that this mode of thinking even
exists. It involves a concept called "face". Loss of face is a huge
thing in Japanese society. If you loss sufficient face, you must kill
yourself. Obviously, the nuke plant operators must maintain face. It
is a matter of life and death to them. Right or wrong, they will
attempt to maintain "face". Does this make sense from a Western
perspective? No.....but....they're Japanese. You cannot possibly
fathom that from a Western perspective.
Dave

On 2011-03-14, lid wrote:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 11:59:22 -0700, Jim Stewart
wrote:

wrote:

According to this article, the recently exploded reator number 3 at
Fukushima was using "mox" as a fuel.

QUOTE: "Last year, unit 3 began using some reprocessed fuel known as
"mox," a mixture of plutonium oxide and uranium oxide, produced from
recycled material from nuclear weapons as part of a program known as
"from megatons to megawatts." UNQUOTE

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...g.html?sid=101


This raises the stakes substantially if the core has been breached.
Plutonium is poisonous as all hell in addition to its high
radioavtivity and incredibly long half life.

*all* nuclear power reactors end up converting
some amount of their fuel to plutonium. The
percentage depends on how long the fuel has
been in the reactor.

Apparently, from what I am hearing, three of the reactors at Fukushima
were shut down for refueling.....so that would be good news if that is
a factual condition. I heard this is from an "expert" guest on a
internet radio show....so I still need to do some checking.

Regards the plutonium: even as the process converts some amount of its
fuel to plutonium, using plutonium on the front end as initial fuel
vastly increases the total amount of plutonium available to create a
poisonous mess if the containment vessel has been breached.

The explosion at Fukushima #3 looks, to me, like it blew the cement
containment cap over the reactor vessel into the sky. From the videos
available it looks to be falling back to Earth to the left in the
videos. This cap is removable by a large trolley crane during the
refueling process. It is massive and would require a HUGE explosive
force to cast as far into the sky as it appears to fly.

That would indicate a reactor vessel breach and a resultant steam
explosion as the seawater they have pumped into the containment vessel
around the reactor superheated. I do not believe the Japanese
government's story of a hydrogen explosion. They would have been able
to vent much of the hydrogen before such a massive explosion
occurred.....assuming they have at least some fundamental control over
any systems whatsoever at the facility.
Dave

Even if the vessel did not breach -- they may not even know -- the
piping surely did.

i

On 2011-03-14, Joe AutoDrill wrote:
That would indicate a reactor vessel breach and a resultant steam
explosion as the seawater they have pumped into the containment vessel
around the reactor superheated. I do not believe the Japanese
government's story of a hydrogen explosion. They would have been able
to vent much of the hydrogen before such a massive explosion
occurred.....assuming they have at least some fundamental control over
any systems whatsoever at the facility.
Dave


Interesting assessment, Dave.

Ending with an implied question of do they have control of anything?

Actually, I was wondering what the motivation for misleading the world would
be at this point. I mean, if you're hurt that badly, screaming for help
seems to be the best option, not denying the injury ala the Black Knight...
("It's merely a fleshwound" guy from Monty Python's... Oh never mind. If you
didn't know it, that won't help either.)

"Panic prevention", plus everything that J. Carroll said

i

On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 16:47:16 -0500, Ignoramus1540
wrote:

On 2011-03-14, lid wrote:
That would indicate a reactor vessel breach and a resultant steam
explosion as the seawater they have pumped into the containment vessel
around the reactor superheated. I do not believe the Japanese
government's story of a hydrogen explosion. They would have been able
to vent much of the hydrogen before such a massive explosion
occurred.....assuming they have at least some fundamental control over
any systems whatsoever at the facility.
Dave

Even if the vessel did not breach -- they may not even know -- the
piping surely did.

i

I would certainly concur. That explosion was MASSIVE.

What is killing me about this whole thing is this: Who designed this
facility to have the emergency diesel back-up generators staged at an
elevation level where operating them would suck in water, and cause
them to immediately fail, in a KNOWN tsunami environment?

These generators should have been located on a man made earthen/cement
works 80 feet or so above ground level.

The quake occurred, caused the control rods to drop, emergency power
kicked on via the diesels, giant tidal wave showed up, diesel
generators immediately sucked water, and core cooling pumps switched
to battery power. Batteries die after 8 or so hours of operation.
Diesels still full of water.

I am also unsure as to why the grid didn't seem to switch power to
Fukushima to run their pumps. The only possibility I can come up with
is that transmission lines were torn down by the tsunami. This
possibility was a double reason to locate the diesels at a higher
elevation then ground level.

A cascade of errors as is usual in these types of situations.
Dave

lid wrote:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2011 16:39:54 -0400, "Joe AutoDrill"
wrote:

That would indicate a reactor vessel breach and a resultant steam
explosion as the seawater they have pumped into the containment vessel
around the reactor superheated. I do not believe the Japanese
government's story of a hydrogen explosion. They would have been able
to vent much of the hydrogen before such a massive explosion
occurred.....assuming they have at least some fundamental control over
any systems whatsoever at the facility.
Dave


Interesting assessment, Dave.

Ending with an implied question of do they have control of anything?

Actually, I was wondering what the motivation for misleading the world would
be at this point. I mean, if you're hurt that badly, screaming for help
seems to be the best option, not denying the injury ala the Black Knight...
("It's merely a fleshwound" guy from Monty Python's... Oh never mind. If you
didn't know it, that won't help either.)

That is an interesting question. I worked for a Japanese auto parts
supplier for a couple of years. If you can devise the workings of the
Asiatic mind, please illuminate me. After close working with these
people, I still find it to be a mystery. They seem to make a policy
decision, and then right or wrong, stick tenaciously to it to the
bitter end. Banzai style. Unless you've seen it up close, as a Western
individual, you will not even be aware that this mode of thinking even
exists. It involves a concept called "face". Loss of face is a huge
thing in Japanese society. If you loss sufficient face, you must kill
yourself. Obviously, the nuke plant operators must maintain face. It
is a matter of life and death to them. Right or wrong, they will
attempt to maintain "face". Does this make sense from a Western
perspective? No.....but....they're Japanese. You cannot possibly
fathom that from a Western perspective.

I was talking to a friend yesterday and the subject
indirectly went back to that. He was ranting about
the fact that emergency generators were brought in
to run the pumps, but they couldn't be used because
the cable connectors were incompatible.

I told him that this was an excellent example of the
difference in mindset between US and Japanese engineers.
Japanese engineers, when faced with something not
explained in the documentation or outside of their
scope of work will, invariably, kick the problem up
the chain of command. In no case will an old guy
step up and say "get me some 3/8 bolts, nuts, drill
and some flat bar and we'll make something that will
work". It is absolutely not in their mindset.

lid wrote:

Plutonium is poisonous as all hell

So don't eat any.

in addition to its high
radioavtivity and incredibly long half life.

This is a contradiction. If it's got "high radioactivity," then it
can't have an "incredibly long half life."

It wears out, you see.

Hope This Helps!
Rich

On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 00:59:18 -0700, Rich Grise
wrote:

wrote:

Plutonium is poisonous as all hell

So don't eat any.

in addition to its high
radioavtivity and incredibly long half life.

This is a contradiction. If it's got "high radioactivity," then it
can't have an "incredibly long half life."

It wears out, you see.

Hope This Helps!
Rich

Actually, you don't need to eat it. If you breath in merely a few
plutonium dust particles, you will die. This is nasty stuff.

Radioavtivity and half life depend on the isotope. Those present in
reactors are not the good kind for human health.
Dave