On 2010-12-05, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 05 Dec 2010 05:37:31 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 5 Dec 2010 05:20:44 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Dec 4, 8:10?pm, Rich Grise wrote:
...
Of course, if they had any gratitude for being rescued from Hitler, they
certainly have a weird way of expressing it - the first thing they did
when they got their own country was starting to attack their neighbors
because they wanted to take over more territory.
... Rich

The 1948 was was considerably more complicated than that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Legion

And dont forget this bit of butchery

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kfar_Etzion_massacre

Look at the 3 dates. Which preceded which?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Dawayima_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

But isn't this simply more proof that these folks have been after each
other's throats for thousands of years? Can't we all just get along?


This is not true. They were only at each other's throats since the
20th century.

i

On Sun, 05 Dec 2010 09:46:44 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Dec 2010 05:37:31 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 5 Dec 2010 05:20:44 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Dec 4, 8:10*pm, Rich Grise wrote:
...
Of course, if they had any gratitude for being rescued from Hitler, they
certainly have a weird way of expressing it - the first thing they did
when they got their own country was starting to attack their neighbors
because they wanted to take over more territory.
... Rich

The 1948 was was considerably more complicated than that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Legion

And dont forget this bit of butchery

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kfar_Etzion_massacre

Look at the 3 dates. Which preceded which?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Dawayima_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

But isn't this simply more proof that these folks have been after each
other's throats for thousands of years? Can't we all just get along?

Actually..for most of that time..they were largely at peace with each
other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ab-Israeli_war

After about 30 years of nationalist conflict in the British Mandate of
Palestine between Palestinian Arabs and Jewish Zionists and while no
agreement could be found between parties, the British decided to
terminate the Mandate in February 1947 and on 29 November 1947, the
United Nations General Assembly voted the Partition of Palestine.

The vote was immediately followed by a Civil War in which Palestinian
Arabs (supported by the Arab Liberation Army) and Palestinian Jews,
fought against each other while the region was still fully under British
rule. On 15 May 1948, a full-scale war started when Israel declared its
independence and Transjordan, Egypt, Syria and Iraq sent expeditionary
forces to fight the Israelis."

Against Jews of Palestine

After the Partition vote, Arab leaders threatened the Jewish population
of Palestine. They spoke of "driving the Jews into the sea" and ridding
Palestine "of the Zionist Plague".[31] On the eve of the Arab armies
invasion, Azzam Pasha, the General Secretary of the Arab League,
"describing the fate of the Jews" even declared: 'This will be a war of
extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the
Mongolian massacres and the Crusades.'[32]

According to the Israeli traditional historiography, these statements
reflected the Arab intentions.[31][33] While Benny Morris considers the
real picture of the Arab aims to be more complex, notably because they
were well aware they could not defeat the Jews[31], he argues that the
Yishuv was indeed threatened with extinction and feared what would
happen if the Arabs won.[34] Yoav Gelber, on the other hand, regards
these public statements as 'meaningless' and judges that the 'actions
[of their armies] imply that the aims of the Arab invasion were
decidedly limited and focused mainly on saving Arab Palestine from total
Jewish domination'[35].
[edit] Against Jews outside Palestine

Jewish population centers in Arab countries outside Palestine also
became threatened, in relation to the partition plan. On November 14,
1947, the Egyptian delegate at the United Nations stated that: 'The
proposed solution might endanger a million Jews living in the Muslim
countries. Partition of Palestine might create in those countries an
anti-Semitism even more difficult to root out than the antisemitism
which the Allies tried to eradicate in Germany'.[36] Indeed, the UN
declaration of partition, though it was generally met with by peaceful
protests in Arab countries, provided the pretext for a pogrom in Aden
soon after, on 2 December 1947, in which 82 Jews were killed.[37]

The New York Times reported a memorandum of the World Jewish Congress
expressing concerns about this situation in the edition of 16 May 1948
in an article enitled : "Jews in grave danger in all Moslem lands: Nine
hundred thousand in Africa and Asia face the wrath of their foes".[38]
At Cairo in Egypt, between June and November 1948, several bombing
attacks took place against Jews, killings several dozens of them.[39]"


Were the Jews blameless for the butchery that followed?

Hardly.

But do..do keep in mind what they had gone through only 3 yrs
before..and where they were streaming into their new land....from.

Gunner

--
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 22:10:31 -0800, Rich Grise

No, I pretty much watched it happen. The papers, newsmagazines and teevee
actually reported actual news back in those days.

Then you wont have any trouble providing links and cites.

Ill be waiting for them

Well, I'll be. I looked it up, and apparently I've been misinformed.

Sorry for being so noisily adamant about something that has turned out
to be nonsense.

At least I'm educable. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

"Ignoramus25939" wrote in message
...
On 2010-12-05, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 05 Dec 2010 05:37:31 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 5 Dec 2010 05:20:44 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Dec 4, 8:10?pm, Rich Grise wrote:
...
Of course, if they had any gratitude for being rescued from Hitler,
they
certainly have a weird way of expressing it - the first thing they did
when they got their own country was starting to attack their neighbors
because they wanted to take over more territory.
... Rich

The 1948 was was considerably more complicated than that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Legion

And dont forget this bit of butchery

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kfar_Etzion_massacre

Look at the 3 dates. Which preceded which?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Dawayima_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

But isn't this simply more proof that these folks have been after each
other's throats for thousands of years? Can't we all just get along?


This is not true. They were only at each other's throats since the
20th century.

i

Iggy, you need to start watching Fox News and reading Murdoch publications.
Israel uber alles!

On Sun, 05 Dec 2010 12:02:26 -0600, Ignoramus25939
wrote:

On 2010-12-05, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 05 Dec 2010 05:37:31 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 5 Dec 2010 05:20:44 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Dec 4, 8:10?pm, Rich Grise wrote:
...
Of course, if they had any gratitude for being rescued from Hitler, they
certainly have a weird way of expressing it - the first thing they did
when they got their own country was starting to attack their neighbors
because they wanted to take over more territory.
... Rich

The 1948 was was considerably more complicated than that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Legion

And dont forget this bit of butchery

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kfar_Etzion_massacre

Look at the 3 dates. Which preceded which?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Dawayima_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

But isn't this simply more proof that these folks have been after each
other's throats for thousands of years? Can't we all just get along?


This is not true. They were only at each other's throats since the
20th century.

Are you sure? A quick google "jew arab hostilities origin" gave me
this: http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~peters/persecution.html
It doesn't appear to be just a simple popular myth.

--
You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club.
--Jack London

On Sun, 05 Dec 2010 19:07:20 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Dec 2010 12:02:26 -0600, Ignoramus25939
wrote:

On 2010-12-05, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 05 Dec 2010 05:37:31 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 5 Dec 2010 05:20:44 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On Dec 4, 8:10?pm, Rich Grise wrote:
...
Of course, if they had any gratitude for being rescued from Hitler, they
certainly have a weird way of expressing it - the first thing they did
when they got their own country was starting to attack their neighbors
because they wanted to take over more territory.
... Rich

The 1948 was was considerably more complicated than that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Legion

And dont forget this bit of butchery

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kfar_Etzion_massacre

Look at the 3 dates. Which preceded which?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Dawayima_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

But isn't this simply more proof that these folks have been after each
other's throats for thousands of years? Can't we all just get along?


This is not true. They were only at each other's throats since the
20th century.

Are you sure? A quick google "jew arab hostilities origin" gave me
this: http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~peters/persecution.html
It doesn't appear to be just a simple popular myth.

True enough. As I said..over the long term..they got along well
enough..but...shrug...there have been enough pograms and whatnot to make
it bad at times.

We are talking about 600+ yrs here...not the last 60 yrs

Gunner

--
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

On Dec 2, 11:36*am, Ignoramus24652 ignoramus24...@NOSPAM.
24652.invalid wrote:
I am reading various diplomatic cables released recently. Naturally, I
tried to read about what I know at least something, so I picked cables
from the Moscow embassy.

http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/cable...MOSCOW272.html

As a distant observer on this I am surprised at the over the top
reactions to all this - more interesting than the actual documents. I
mean, really - it confirms (mostly) what we already suspected/knew
anyway. The vitriol that has been spewed out cause, basically, you got
sprung being "frank and honest" is amazing...!!!! Get over it - you
stuffed up, just your turn, that all. Nearly as embarrassing as
farting during oral sex. ............(sorry to the prudes)

BUT, from my perspective as a citizen of an erstwhile Ally,
(Australia? - you know, that way somewhere...) was surprised to find
out that your embassy guys were having long (probably liquid) lunches
with our government ministers (ours, not yours, mate) who were
cheerfully blabbing stuff that we, the people, should have been told
about first. Like, er...party coups, Prime Ministers being rolled,
yep, more troops, no worries - trivial crap like that. Your embassy
guys are good, wont dispute that - good job, well done. Hope their
livers survive.

And, hey people - stop trying to shoot the messenger, OK. Lucky guy
bonked two different ladies on 2 consecutive nights - and their ****ed
about it. (Silly ******* - what did he expect? - probably not the crap
thats going on for him at the moment.)
(Now, tell me honestly, what would YOU have done if given the same
chance?)

And, please, rein in your extreme nutter politicians - their an
embarrassment to the whole world. Confirms some peoples worst fears
about you guys. None of us need crap like that.

Andrew VK3BFA.

Gunner Asch on Sun, 05 Dec 2010 19:12:37 -0800
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sun, 05 Dec 2010 19:07:20 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 05 Dec 2010 12:02:26 -0600, Ignoramus25939 wrote:
On 2010-12-05, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 05 Dec 2010 05:37:31 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:
On Sun, 5 Dec 2010 05:20:44 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
wrote:
On Dec 4, 8:10?pm, Rich Grise wrote:
...
Of course, if they had any gratitude for being rescued from Hitler, they
certainly have a weird way of expressing it - the first thing they did
when they got their own country was starting to attack their neighbors
because they wanted to take over more territory.
... Rich

The 1948 was was considerably more complicated than that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Legion

And dont forget this bit of butchery

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kfar_Etzion_massacre

Look at the 3 dates. Which preceded which?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Dawayima_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

But isn't this simply more proof that these folks have been after each
other's throats for thousands of years? Can't we all just get along?

This is not true. They were only at each other's throats since the
20th century.

Are you sure? A quick google "jew arab hostilities origin" gave me
this: http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~peters/persecution.html
It doesn't appear to be just a simple popular myth.

True enough. As I said..over the long term..they got along well
enough..but...shrug...there have been enough pograms and whatnot to make
it bad at times.

The Muslims have always gotten along with the Jews - and the
Christians. Just as long as they recognized that Islam was superior,
and they (the unbelievers) were second class citizens.

The problems really took off when the dhimmis from outside the
House of Islam started out doing the superior Muslims. Little things
like technology and military arts and such, giving the local dhimmis
ideas, making 'em all uppity. It all had to be a plot by them ....

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
Most of the intelligentsia haven't studied history, so much
as they've absorbed the Correct Position on "History".