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Hex head vs hex socket head
Assuming no counterbore and space is not a problem, how do you
choose between hex head and hex socket head ? I've noticed that hex head screws are commonly available up to property class 8.8 while hex socket head screws go up to 12.9. Why is that ? -- André Majorel http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/ "The object of this year's expedition is to see if we can find trace of last year's expedition." |
Hex head vs hex socket head
On 11/18/2010 09:37 AM, Andre Majorel wrote:
Assuming no counterbore and space is not a problem, how do you choose between hex head and hex socket head ? I've noticed that hex head screws are commonly available up to property class 8.8 while hex socket head screws go up to 12.9. Why is that ? Socket head screws are higher tech, and look more impressive. All the racers will think better of you if you use socket head screws _everywhere_. But you'll have to get some wrenches, 'cause vice-grips don't work as well on socket-head screws. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com Do you need to implement control loops in software? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you. See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html |
Hex head vs hex socket head
Tim Wescott wrote:
On 11/18/2010 09:37 AM, Andre Majorel wrote: Assuming no counterbore and space is not a problem, how do you choose between hex head and hex socket head ? I've noticed that hex head screws are commonly available up to property class 8.8 while hex socket head screws go up to 12.9. Why is that ? Socket head screws are higher tech, and look more impressive. All the racers will think better of you if you use socket head screws _everywhere_. But you'll have to get some wrenches, 'cause vice-grips don't work as well on socket-head screws. What Tim said. And SHCS's require far less tool clearance. BTW, If you want to get the full specified strength from a SHCS boltup, be sure to do the little chamfer where the through hole opens up into the counter- bore. Details in Machinery's Handbook. |
Hex head vs hex socket head
On Nov 18, 12:43*pm, Tim Wescott wrote:
On 11/18/2010 09:37 AM, Andre Majorel wrote: Assuming no counterbore and space is not a problem, how do you choose between hex head and hex socket head ? I've noticed that hex head screws are commonly available up to property class 8.8 while hex socket head screws go up to 12.9. Why is that ? Socket head screws are higher tech, and look more impressive. *All the racers will think better of you if you use socket head screws _everywhere_. But you'll have to get some wrenches, 'cause vice-grips don't work as well on socket-head screws. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Serviceshttp://www.wescottdesign.com Do you need to implement control loops in software? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you. See details athttp://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html Absofrigginlutely. Back in the days when I was turning wrenches for a living at a motorcycle shop in the Bronx (1974), the two most popular jobs we did were drilling holes in exhast baffles to make Jap bikes sound "better," and replacing all the phillips head screws with socket- head screws. Both were totally cosmetic, but hey, if the jerks ^H^H^H^H^H customers were willing to pay... |
Hex head vs hex socket head
rangerssuck wrote:
(...) and replacing all the phillips head screws with socket- head screws. Both were totally cosmetic, but hey, if the jerks ^H^H^H^H^H customers were willing to pay... I have yet to 'cam out' my first hex socket head cap screw. Phillips are a different story however. :) --Winston -- Helix'ed a few Allen wrenches though. |
Hex head vs hex socket head
On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 10:25:06 -0800, Jim Stewart
wrote: Tim Wescott wrote: On 11/18/2010 09:37 AM, Andre Majorel wrote: Assuming no counterbore and space is not a problem, how do you choose between hex head and hex socket head ? I've noticed that hex head screws are commonly available up to property class 8.8 while hex socket head screws go up to 12.9. Why is that ? Socket head screws are higher tech, and look more impressive. All the racers will think better of you if you use socket head screws _everywhere_. But you'll have to get some wrenches, 'cause vice-grips don't work as well on socket-head screws. What Tim said. And SHCS's require far less tool clearance. And a set of wrenches that fits from #0 thru 1/2" screws costs less than $20 and fits in your back pocket. -- Ned Simmons |
Hex head vs hex socket head
Ned Simmons wrote:
On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 10:25:06 -0800, Jim wrote: Tim Wescott wrote: On 11/18/2010 09:37 AM, Andre Majorel wrote: Assuming no counterbore and space is not a problem, how do you choose between hex head and hex socket head ? I've noticed that hex head screws are commonly available up to property class 8.8 while hex socket head screws go up to 12.9. Why is that ? Socket head screws are higher tech, and look more impressive. All the racers will think better of you if you use socket head screws _everywhere_. But you'll have to get some wrenches, 'cause vice-grips don't work as well on socket-head screws. What Tim said. And SHCS's require far less tool clearance. And a set of wrenches that fits from #0 thru 1/2" screws costs less than $20 and fits in your back pocket. Slightly off-topic... There's lots of hardcore biking where I live and the $100 seats are theft targets. The bicycle shops have been supergluing a bearing ball in the head of the SHCS that tightens the seat clamp to discourage casual theft. Hitting the SHCS with a torch for a few seconds causes the ball to drop out. |
Hex head vs hex socket head
Winston wrote:
rangerssuck wrote: (...) and replacing all the phillips head screws with socket- head screws. Both were totally cosmetic, but hey, if the jerks ^H^H^H^H^H customers were willing to pay... I have yet to 'cam out' my first hex socket head cap screw. Phillips are a different story however. :) --Winston -- Helix'ed a few Allen wrenches though. I have had a SHCS cam out as it must have been abused in the past and the socket was damaged. Tried everything including a lever to force the bit into the socket but it was always ejected, new sections cut from new Allen keys no use, hex drive bits no use, Went down the pub that evening to forget it and came back the next day with a carbide burr in a die grinder to remove the head, once it was removed the thread unscrewed by hand as the thread was clean and not binding and could be undone with your fingers. Not so used to Phillips in the UK as PoziDrive is much more common. Also would have to check the spelling as the European Philips maybe confused with phillips, any relation?. |
Hex head vs hex socket head
"Tim Wescott" wrote in message ... On 11/18/2010 09:37 AM, Andre Majorel wrote: Assuming no counterbore and space is not a problem, how do you choose between hex head and hex socket head ? I've noticed that hex head screws are commonly available up to property class 8.8 while hex socket head screws go up to 12.9. Why is that ? Socket head screws are higher tech, and look more impressive. All the racers will think better of you if you use socket head screws _everywhere_. But you'll have to get some wrenches, 'cause vice-grips don't work as well on socket-head screws. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com Do you need to implement control loops in software? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you. See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html I used to drag race years ago. The sanctioning body banned the used of socket head capscrews in shear applications, supposedly the higher grade bolts were more brittle and failed in shear. |
Hex head vs hex socket head
On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 16:20:29 -0800, Winston
wrote: rangerssuck wrote: (...) and replacing all the phillips head screws with socket- head screws. Both were totally cosmetic, but hey, if the jerks ^H^H^H^H^H customers were willing to pay... I have yet to 'cam out' my first hex socket head cap screw. Phillips are a different story however. Several years back, I purchased some "guaranteed for life" screwdrivers. I asked if the guarantee applied to the Philips drivers since I would never use them to drive, only to remove Philips head fasteners. Gerry :-)} London, Canada |
Hex head vs hex socket head
On Nov 18, 7:20*pm, Winston wrote:
rangerssuck wrote: (...) and replacing all the phillips head screws with socket- head screws. Both were totally cosmetic, but hey, if the jerks ^H^H^H^H^H customers were willing to pay... I have yet to 'cam out' my first hex socket head cap screw. *Phillips are a different story however. :) --Winston -- Helix'ed a few Allen wrenches though. It was (and I suppose still is) standard procedure to use a hammer/ impact driver on those screws. Virtually impossible to cam out when you've hit it with a BFH. |
Hex head vs hex socket head
David Billington wrote:
(...) Also would have to check the spelling as the European Philips maybe confused with phillips, any relation?. Perhaps the Dutch had a colony in Portland at one time? :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philips http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_F._Phillips --Winston |
Hex head vs hex socket head
Jim Stewart wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote: On 11/18/2010 09:37 AM, Andre Majorel wrote: Assuming no counterbore and space is not a problem, how do you choose between hex head and hex socket head ? I've noticed that hex head screws are commonly available up to property class 8.8 while hex socket head screws go up to 12.9. Why is that ? Socket head screws are higher tech, and look more impressive. All the racers will think better of you if you use socket head screws _everywhere_. But you'll have to get some wrenches, 'cause vice-grips don't work as well on socket-head screws. What Tim said. And SHCS's require far less tool clearance. BTW, If you want to get the full specified strength from a SHCS boltup, be sure to do the little chamfer where the through hole opens up into the counter- bore. Details in Machinery's Handbook. There are washers available that provide the same radius clearance too. John |
Hex head vs hex socket head
David Billington wrote:
Winston wrote: rangerssuck wrote: (...) and replacing all the phillips head screws with socket- head screws. Both were totally cosmetic, but hey, if the jerks ^H^H^H^H^H customers were willing to pay... I have yet to 'cam out' my first hex socket head cap screw. Phillips are a different story however. :) --Winston -- Helix'ed a few Allen wrenches though. I have had a SHCS cam out as it must have been abused in the past and the socket was damaged. Tried everything including a lever to force the bit into the socket but it was always ejected, new sections cut from new Allen keys no use, hex drive bits no use, Went down the pub that evening to forget it and came back the next day with a carbide burr in a die grinder to remove the head, once it was removed the thread unscrewed by hand as the thread was clean and not binding and could be undone with your fingers. Not so used to Phillips in the UK as PoziDrive is much more common. Also would have to check the spelling as the European Philips maybe confused with phillips, any relation?. They usually get stripped when the wrong wrench is used, metric for sae or the Allen wrench itself is not all the way into the socket head, usually caused by dirt in the hole. Removing stripped screws varies with where they are located. A good quality pipe wrench works great if you can get at it. Sometimes you can drive in a larger size piece of a metric Allen wrench and then put a socket on the end of the Allen wrench stub. Sometimes you can break the cap screw loose with a chisel and hammer. Phillips screws can easily get screwed up by using a worn screwdriver or the wrong size screw driver. A Reed and Prince screwdriver is not a Phillips screwdriver. If you get a stubborn screw, sticking the screwdriver tip in dirt or sand or grinding compound will lock the screwdriver better in the screw head. I would recommend using a replaceable tip screwdriver since the tip will sometimes shatter and ruin the screw driver. Another way is to cut a slot in the screw head with a dremel tool to fit a slot screwdriver. John |
PoziDrive Screws: Was Hex head vs hex socket head
--Winston -- Helix'ed a few Allen wrenches though. I have had a SHCS cam out as it must have been abused in the past and the socket was damaged. Tried everything including a lever to force the bit into the socket but it was always ejected, new sections cut from new Allen keys no use, hex drive bits no use, Went down the pub that evening to forget it and came back the next day with a carbide burr in a die grinder to remove the head, once it was removed the thread unscrewed by hand as the thread was clean and not binding and could be undone with your fingers. Not so used to Phillips in the UK as PoziDrive is much more common. Also would have to check the spelling as the European Philips maybe confused with phillips, any relation?. There a LOT of PoziDriv screws used in the US as well, but an amazingly small number of people who have even heard the name[1], and even fewer that can identify one. Only 5% of those remaining actually have and use PoziDriv drivers. At last count, it was me, and four others spread across all of N America.[2] It's too bad, PoziDriv screws used with the correct driver work wonderfully! But a regular Phillips bit in a PoziDriv plays hell with both fastener and driver... especially if any torque is involved. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pozidrive#Pozidrive Erik [1] I jumped on a $nap-On truck a several years back, and asked about PoziDriv bits and drivers... he looked at me like I was from Mars. He didn't look like a new guy dither, maybe 50 years old, and his truck, while both clean and well stocked, had definitely seen years of use. [2] With the possible exception of Canada... I hear they use a lot of Robertson head screws up there. In my limited experience, they also seem to work very well. |
Hex head vs hex socket head
On 2010-11-19, John wrote:
[ ... ] Sometimes you can break the cap screw loose with a chisel and hammer. Phillips screws can easily get screwed up by using a worn screwdriver or the wrong size screw driver. A common problem -- because the right size Phillips driver *looks* too big. If you can't train people to feel for minimum slack in the fit of the bit to the screw slot, you will have a lot of munged heads and bits. Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
Hex head vs hex socket head
Winston writes:
rangerssuck wrote: (...) and replacing all the phillips head screws with socket- head screws. Both were totally cosmetic, but hey, if the jerks ^H^H^H^H^H customers were willing to pay... I have yet to 'cam out' my first hex socket head cap screw. Phillips are a different story however. I despise Phillips head screws. Try taking out the one on a Salt Belt car's headlight rim...^%(*%^%^^(^ I prefer Torx; one of the very few good inventions of Generous Motors. -- A host is a host from coast to & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 |
Hex head vs hex socket head
I prefer Torx; one of the very few good inventions of Generous Motors. Hmmm... I don't think Torx drive fasteners were GM's baby. They just use them a lot. Check this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx For the record, I really like this drive system as well. I don't ever recall having a Torx issue, other than the occasional need to clean spooge and/or paint from screw heads. Erik |
Hex head vs hex socket head
On Nov 19, 2:07*am, Erik wrote:
I prefer Torx; one of the very few good inventions of Generous Motors. Hmmm... I don't think Torx drive fasteners were GM's baby. They just use them a lot. Check this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx For the record, I really like this drive system as well. I don't ever recall having a Torx issue, other than the occasional need to clean spooge and/or paint from screw heads. Erik You must live where salt on the roads isn't a Big Deal. I've lost track of how many hex socket and Torx heads have rusted out to a sort- of-round hole. Philips just rust out to a dimple. One reason for the existance of needle-nose visegrips. Cars and trucks more than a few years old look like metal mice have been nibbling on them. Stan |
Hex head vs hex socket head
David Lesher wrote:
writes: rangerssuck wrote: (...) and replacing all the phillips head screws with socket- head screws. Both were totally cosmetic, but hey, if the jerks ^H^H^H^H^H customers were willing to pay... I have yet to 'cam out' my first hex socket head cap screw. Phillips are a different story however. I despise Phillips head screws. Try taking out the one on a Salt Belt car's headlight rim...^%(*%^%^^(^ Try a paste of Comet Cleaner and water applied to the grooves before putting the driver in. And use new high-quality drivers. I prefer Torx; one of the very few good inventions of Generous Motors. |
Hex head vs hex socket head
On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 07:47:04 -0800, Jim Stewart
wrote: David Lesher wrote: writes: rangerssuck wrote: (...) and replacing all the phillips head screws with socket- head screws. Both were totally cosmetic, but hey, if the jerks ^H^H^H^H^H customers were willing to pay... I have yet to 'cam out' my first hex socket head cap screw. Phillips are a different story however. I despise Phillips head screws. Try taking out the one on a Salt Belt car's headlight rim...^%(*%^%^^(^ Try a paste of Comet Cleaner and water applied to the grooves before putting the driver in. And use new high-quality drivers. I bought some Philips drivers that have laser-cut "teeth" so they bite in on the sides. Better than nothing. I prefer Torx; one of the very few good inventions of Generous Motors. And Robertson, of course, especially with the genuine hardened bits. |
Hex head vs hex socket head
On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 11:22:38 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
wrote: On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 07:47:04 -0800, Jim Stewart wrote: David Lesher wrote: writes: rangerssuck wrote: (...) and replacing all the phillips head screws with socket- head screws. Both were totally cosmetic, but hey, if the jerks ^H^H^H^H^H customers were willing to pay... I have yet to 'cam out' my first hex socket head cap screw. Phillips are a different story however. I despise Phillips head screws. Try taking out the one on a Salt Belt car's headlight rim...^%(*%^%^^(^ Try a paste of Comet Cleaner and water applied to the grooves before putting the driver in. And use new high-quality drivers. I bought some Philips drivers that have laser-cut "teeth" so they bite in on the sides. Better than nothing. I like the PoziDrive type screws which can take either Phillips or Square drivers. Of the many types of Phillips screw heads, I adore the ACR drives. They damnear prevent camout...while they're fresh. I prefer Torx; one of the very few good inventions of Generous Motors. And Robertson, of course, especially with the genuine hardened bits. Ditto both. -- Education is when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get if you don't. -- Pete Seeger |
Hex head vs hex socket head
On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 19:09:20 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck
wrote: On Nov 18, 7:20Â*pm, Winston wrote: rangerssuck wrote: (...) and replacing all the phillips head screws with socket- head screws. Both were totally cosmetic, but hey, if the jerks ^H^H^H^H^H customers were willing to pay... I have yet to 'cam out' my first hex socket head cap screw. Â*Phillips are a different story however. :) --Winston -- Helix'ed a few Allen wrenches though. It was (and I suppose still is) standard procedure to use a hammer/ impact driver on those screws. Virtually impossible to cam out when you've hit it with a BFH. Virtually? I have "hogged out" phillips and posidrive screws with a hammer impact driver. Does that count? The head ended up with a nice conical depression in the center. Worked good as a center drill to start / center the drill to drill the head off. |
Hex head vs hex socket head
In article
, wrote: On Nov 19, 2:07*am, Erik wrote: I prefer Torx; one of the very few good inventions of Generous Motors. Hmmm... I don't think Torx drive fasteners were GM's baby. They just use them a lot. Check this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx For the record, I really like this drive system as well. I don't ever recall having a Torx issue, other than the occasional need to clean spooge and/or paint from screw heads. Erik You must live where salt on the roads isn't a Big Deal. I've lost track of how many hex socket and Torx heads have rusted out to a sort- of-round hole. Philips just rust out to a dimple. One reason for the existance of needle-nose visegrips. Cars and trucks more than a few years old look like metal mice have been nibbling on them. Stan True... I live in S California and rarely deal with salt eaten stuff... Erik |
Hex head vs hex socket head
DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2010-11-19, John wrote: Sometimes you can break the cap screw loose with a chisel and hammer. Phillips screws can easily get screwed up by using a worn screwdriver or the wrong size screw driver. A common problem -- because the right size Phillips driver *looks* too big. If you can't train people to feel for minimum slack in the fit of the bit to the screw slot, you will have a lot of munged heads and bits. Enjoy, DoN. Yep. If we could only get them to think, The shank of the driver is very nearly the diameter of the screw head, it would improve the life of both. :-) ...lew... |
Hex head vs hex socket head
rangerssuck writes:
On Nov 18, 12:43Â*pm, Tim Wescott wrote: On 11/18/2010 09:37 AM, Andre Majorel wrote: Assuming no counterbore and space is not a problem, how do you choose between hex head and hex socket head ? I've noticed that hex head screws are commonly available up to property class 8.8 while hex socket head screws go up to 12.9. Why is that ? Socket head screws are higher tech, and look more impressive. Â*All the racers will think better of you if you use socket head screws _everywhere_. But you'll have to get some wrenches, 'cause vice-grips don't work as well on socket-head screws. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Serviceshttp://www.wescottdesign.com Do you need to implement control loops in software? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you. See details athttp://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html Absofrigginlutely. Back in the days when I was turning wrenches for a living at a motorcycle shop in the Bronx (1974), the two most popular jobs we did were drilling holes in exhast baffles to make Jap bikes sound "better," and replacing all the phillips head screws with socket- head screws. Both were totally cosmetic, but hey, if the jerks ^H^H^H^H^H customers were willing to pay... Well... allen head or torx heads are harder to strip. -- As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously. (Benjamin Franklin) |
PoziDrive Screws: Was Hex head vs hex socket head
On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:08:50 -0800, Erik wrote:
--Winston -- Helix'ed a few Allen wrenches though. I have had a SHCS cam out as it must have been abused in the past and the socket was damaged. Tried everything including a lever to force the bit into the socket but it was always ejected, new sections cut from new Allen keys no use, hex drive bits no use, Went down the pub that evening to forget it and came back the next day with a carbide burr in a die grinder to remove the head, once it was removed the thread unscrewed by hand as the thread was clean and not binding and could be undone with your fingers. Not so used to Phillips in the UK as PoziDrive is much more common. Also would have to check the spelling as the European Philips maybe confused with phillips, any relation?. There a LOT of PoziDriv screws used in the US as well, but an amazingly small number of people who have even heard the name[1], and even fewer that can identify one. Only 5% of those remaining actually have and use PoziDriv drivers. At last count, it was me, and four others spread across all of N America.[2] PoziDriv bits are included in the HF 100-piece security bit set. http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...=security+bits Also clutch, torx (security and regular), metric and inch allens (security and regular), torq-set, tri-wing and triple square, flat blade and security flat blade, all for 9 bux. |
PoziDrive Screws: Was Hex head vs hex socket head
Don Foreman wrote: On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:08:50 -0800, Erik wrote: --Winston -- Helix'ed a few Allen wrenches though. I have had a SHCS cam out as it must have been abused in the past and the socket was damaged. Tried everything including a lever to force the bit into the socket but it was always ejected, new sections cut from new Allen keys no use, hex drive bits no use, Went down the pub that evening to forget it and came back the next day with a carbide burr in a die grinder to remove the head, once it was removed the thread unscrewed by hand as the thread was clean and not binding and could be undone with your fingers. Not so used to Phillips in the UK as PoziDrive is much more common. Also would have to check the spelling as the European Philips maybe confused with phillips, any relation?. There a LOT of PoziDriv screws used in the US as well, but an amazingly small number of people who have even heard the name[1], and even fewer that can identify one. Only 5% of those remaining actually have and use PoziDriv drivers. At last count, it was me, and four others spread across all of N America.[2] PoziDriv bits are included in the HF 100-piece security bit set. http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...=security+bits Also clutch, torx (security and regular), metric and inch allens (security and regular), torq-set, tri-wing and triple square, flat blade and security flat blade, all for 9 bux. That set has been on sale for $5.88 several times this year. -- For the last time: I am not a mad scientist! I m just a very ticked off scientist!!! |
PoziDrive Screws: Was Hex head vs hex socket head
On 2010-11-20, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Don Foreman wrote: On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:08:50 -0800, Erik wrote: --Winston -- Helix'ed a few Allen wrenches though. I have had a SHCS cam out as it must have been abused in the past and the socket was damaged. Tried everything including a lever to force the bit into the socket but it was always ejected, new sections cut from new Allen keys no use, hex drive bits no use, Went down the pub that evening to forget it and came back the next day with a carbide burr in a die grinder to remove the head, once it was removed the thread unscrewed by hand as the thread was clean and not binding and could be undone with your fingers. Not so used to Phillips in the UK as PoziDrive is much more common. Also would have to check the spelling as the European Philips maybe confused with phillips, any relation?. There a LOT of PoziDriv screws used in the US as well, but an amazingly small number of people who have even heard the name[1], and even fewer that can identify one. Only 5% of those remaining actually have and use PoziDriv drivers. At last count, it was me, and four others spread across all of N America.[2] PoziDriv bits are included in the HF 100-piece security bit set. http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...=security+bits Also clutch, torx (security and regular), metric and inch allens (security and regular), torq-set, tri-wing and triple square, flat blade and security flat blade, all for 9 bux. That set has been on sale for $5.88 several times this year. It is a good set. i |
PoziDrive Screws: Was Hex head vs hex socket head
Ignoramus3297 wrote: On 2010-11-20, Michael A. Terrell wrote: Don Foreman wrote: On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:08:50 -0800, Erik wrote: --Winston -- Helix'ed a few Allen wrenches though. I have had a SHCS cam out as it must have been abused in the past and the socket was damaged. Tried everything including a lever to force the bit into the socket but it was always ejected, new sections cut from new Allen keys no use, hex drive bits no use, Went down the pub that evening to forget it and came back the next day with a carbide burr in a die grinder to remove the head, once it was removed the thread unscrewed by hand as the thread was clean and not binding and could be undone with your fingers. Not so used to Phillips in the UK as PoziDrive is much more common. Also would have to check the spelling as the European Philips maybe confused with phillips, any relation?. There a LOT of PoziDriv screws used in the US as well, but an amazingly small number of people who have even heard the name[1], and even fewer that can identify one. Only 5% of those remaining actually have and use PoziDriv drivers. At last count, it was me, and four others spread across all of N America.[2] PoziDriv bits are included in the HF 100-piece security bit set. http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...=security+bits Also clutch, torx (security and regular), metric and inch allens (security and regular), torq-set, tri-wing and triple square, flat blade and security flat blade, all for 9 bux. That set has been on sale for $5.88 several times this year. It is a good set. I have a couple of them. -- For the last time: I am not a mad scientist! I m just a very ticked off scientist!!! |
PoziDrive Screws: Was Hex head vs hex socket head
On 11/20/2010 6:17 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Ignoramus3297 wrote: On 2010-11-20, Michael A. wrote: Don Foreman wrote: On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:08:50 -0800, wrote: --Winston-- Helix'ed a few Allen wrenches though. I have had a SHCS cam out as it must have been abused in the past and the socket was damaged. Tried everything including a lever to force the bit into the socket but it was always ejected, new sections cut from new Allen keys no use, hex drive bits no use, Went down the pub that evening to forget it and came back the next day with a carbide burr in a die grinder to remove the head, once it was removed the thread unscrewed by hand as the thread was clean and not binding and could be undone with your fingers. Not so used to Phillips in the UK as PoziDrive is much more common. Also would have to check the spelling as the European Philips maybe confused with phillips, any relation?. There a LOT of PoziDriv screws used in the US as well, but an amazingly small number of people who have even heard the name[1], and even fewer that can identify one. Only 5% of those remaining actually have and use PoziDriv drivers. At last count, it was me, and four others spread across all of N America.[2] PoziDriv bits are included in the HF 100-piece security bit set. http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...=security+bits Also clutch, torx (security and regular), metric and inch allens (security and regular), torq-set, tri-wing and triple square, flat blade and security flat blade, all for 9 bux. That set has been on sale for $5.88 several times this year. It is a good set. I have a couple of them. What good are security screws when anyone can go to HF and get tools for $5.88 to remove them? |
PoziDrive Screws: Was Hex head vs hex socket head
Ralph wrote: On 11/20/2010 6:17 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote: Ignoramus3297 wrote: On 2010-11-20, Michael A. wrote: Don Foreman wrote: On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:08:50 -0800, wrote: --Winston-- Helix'ed a few Allen wrenches though. I have had a SHCS cam out as it must have been abused in the past and the socket was damaged. Tried everything including a lever to force the bit into the socket but it was always ejected, new sections cut from new Allen keys no use, hex drive bits no use, Went down the pub that evening to forget it and came back the next day with a carbide burr in a die grinder to remove the head, once it was removed the thread unscrewed by hand as the thread was clean and not binding and could be undone with your fingers. Not so used to Phillips in the UK as PoziDrive is much more common. Also would have to check the spelling as the European Philips maybe confused with phillips, any relation?. There a LOT of PoziDriv screws used in the US as well, but an amazingly small number of people who have even heard the name[1], and even fewer that can identify one. Only 5% of those remaining actually have and use PoziDriv drivers. At last count, it was me, and four others spread across all of N America.[2] PoziDriv bits are included in the HF 100-piece security bit set. http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...=security+bits Also clutch, torx (security and regular), metric and inch allens (security and regular), torq-set, tri-wing and triple square, flat blade and security flat blade, all for 9 bux. That set has been on sale for $5.88 several times this year. It is a good set. I have a couple of them. What good are security screws when anyone can go to HF and get tools for $5.88 to remove them? Not all security tools are available to the public. Some I used over 20 years ago still aren't sold without a lot of paperwork. The more common types are more safety related, to keep general idiots out of things. -- For the last time: I am not a mad scientist! I m just a very ticked off scientist!!! |
PoziDrive Screws: Was Hex head vs hex socket head
On 2010-11-21, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Ralph wrote: On 11/20/2010 6:17 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote: Ignoramus3297 wrote: On 2010-11-20, Michael A. wrote: Don Foreman wrote: On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:08:50 -0800, wrote: --Winston-- Helix'ed a few Allen wrenches though. I have had a SHCS cam out as it must have been abused in the past and the socket was damaged. Tried everything including a lever to force the bit into the socket but it was always ejected, new sections cut from new Allen keys no use, hex drive bits no use, Went down the pub that evening to forget it and came back the next day with a carbide burr in a die grinder to remove the head, once it was removed the thread unscrewed by hand as the thread was clean and not binding and could be undone with your fingers. Not so used to Phillips in the UK as PoziDrive is much more common. Also would have to check the spelling as the European Philips maybe confused with phillips, any relation?. There a LOT of PoziDriv screws used in the US as well, but an amazingly small number of people who have even heard the name[1], and even fewer that can identify one. Only 5% of those remaining actually have and use PoziDriv drivers. At last count, it was me, and four others spread across all of N America.[2] PoziDriv bits are included in the HF 100-piece security bit set. http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...=security+bits Also clutch, torx (security and regular), metric and inch allens (security and regular), torq-set, tri-wing and triple square, flat blade and security flat blade, all for 9 bux. That set has been on sale for $5.88 several times this year. It is a good set. I have a couple of them. What good are security screws when anyone can go to HF and get tools for $5.88 to remove them? Not all security tools are available to the public. Some I used over 20 years ago still aren't sold without a lot of paperwork. The more common types are more safety related, to keep general idiots out of things. Do you have an example? i |
PoziDrive Screws: Was Hex head vs hex socket head
Ignoramus3297 wrote: On 2010-11-21, Michael A. Terrell wrote: Ralph wrote: On 11/20/2010 6:17 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote: Ignoramus3297 wrote: On 2010-11-20, Michael A. wrote: Don Foreman wrote: On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:08:50 -0800, wrote: --Winston-- Helix'ed a few Allen wrenches though. I have had a SHCS cam out as it must have been abused in the past and the socket was damaged. Tried everything including a lever to force the bit into the socket but it was always ejected, new sections cut from new Allen keys no use, hex drive bits no use, Went down the pub that evening to forget it and came back the next day with a carbide burr in a die grinder to remove the head, once it was removed the thread unscrewed by hand as the thread was clean and not binding and could be undone with your fingers. Not so used to Phillips in the UK as PoziDrive is much more common. Also would have to check the spelling as the European Philips maybe confused with phillips, any relation?. There a LOT of PoziDriv screws used in the US as well, but an amazingly small number of people who have even heard the name[1], and even fewer that can identify one. Only 5% of those remaining actually have and use PoziDriv drivers. At last count, it was me, and four others spread across all of N America.[2] PoziDriv bits are included in the HF 100-piece security bit set. http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...=security+bits Also clutch, torx (security and regular), metric and inch allens (security and regular), torq-set, tri-wing and triple square, flat blade and security flat blade, all for 9 bux. That set has been on sale for $5.88 several times this year. It is a good set. I have a couple of them. What good are security screws when anyone can go to HF and get tools for $5.88 to remove them? Not all security tools are available to the public. Some I used over 20 years ago still aren't sold without a lot of paperwork. The more common types are more safety related, to keep general idiots out of things. Do you have an example? A hollow oval head used for CATV equipment. Hamlin used them on their descramblers. You could get them out with a pair of dykes, but nor without destroying the screw and damaging the case. Either cost the customer their account, and they could never get cable service with our company, anywhere in the US. A list of violators was kept, along with their personal information for future reference. A five sided version of an Allen head, with a center pin and used for wall plates for addressable taps. For that one you had to buy the taps, controller, wall plates, screws and tools at one time. i -- For the last time: I am not a mad scientist! I m just a very ticked off scientist!!! |
PoziDrive Screws: Was Hex head vs hex socket head
On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 19:22:50 -0600, Ralph
wrote: On 11/20/2010 6:17 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote: Ignoramus3297 wrote: On 2010-11-20, Michael A. wrote: Don Foreman wrote: On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:08:50 -0800, wrote: --Winston-- Helix'ed a few Allen wrenches though. I have had a SHCS cam out as it must have been abused in the past and the socket was damaged. Tried everything including a lever to force the bit into the socket but it was always ejected, new sections cut from new Allen keys no use, hex drive bits no use, Went down the pub that evening to forget it and came back the next day with a carbide burr in a die grinder to remove the head, once it was removed the thread unscrewed by hand as the thread was clean and not binding and could be undone with your fingers. Not so used to Phillips in the UK as PoziDrive is much more common. Also would have to check the spelling as the European Philips maybe confused with phillips, any relation?. There a LOT of PoziDriv screws used in the US as well, but an amazingly small number of people who have even heard the name[1], and even fewer that can identify one. Only 5% of those remaining actually have and use PoziDriv drivers. At last count, it was me, and four others spread across all of N America.[2] PoziDriv bits are included in the HF 100-piece security bit set. http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...=security+bits Also clutch, torx (security and regular), metric and inch allens (security and regular), torq-set, tri-wing and triple square, flat blade and security flat blade, all for 9 bux. That set has been on sale for $5.88 several times this year. It is a good set. I have a couple of them. What good are security screws when anyone can go to HF and get tools for $5.88 to remove them? Because the average crook isnt smart enough to do that. Truth. Gunner, Ex cop -- "Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it, or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate results." - John Tucci, |
PoziDrive Screws: Was Hex head vs hex socket head
On 2010-11-21, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
A hollow oval head used for CATV equipment. Hamlin used them on their descramblers. You could get them out with a pair of dykes, but nor without destroying the screw and damaging the case. Either cost the customer their account, and they could never get cable service with our company, anywhere in the US. A list of violators was kept, along with their personal information for future reference. Sounds like a pretty smart solution to customer malfeasance. |
PoziDrive Screws: Was Hex head vs hex socket head
Ignoramus3297 wrote: On 2010-11-21, Michael A. Terrell wrote: A hollow oval head used for CATV equipment. Hamlin used them on their descramblers. You could get them out with a pair of dykes, but nor without destroying the screw and damaging the case. Either cost the customer their account, and they could never get cable service with our company, anywhere in the US. A list of violators was kept, along with their personal information for future reference. Sounds like a pretty smart solution to customer malfeasance. If the equipment wasn't protected, there was always someone who thought that they could defeat the systems. Instead, they destroyed equipment. -- For the last time: I am not a mad scientist! I m just a very ticked off scientist!!! |
PoziDrive Screws: Was Hex head vs hex socket head
On 2010-11-21, Ralph wrote:
On 11/20/2010 6:17 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote: Ignoramus3297 wrote: On 2010-11-20, Michael A. wrote: Don Foreman wrote: [ ... ] PoziDriv bits are included in the HF 100-piece security bit set. http://www.harborfreight.com/catalog...=security+bits Also clutch, torx (security and regular), metric and inch allens (security and regular), torq-set, tri-wing and triple square, flat blade and security flat blade, all for 9 bux. That set has been on sale for $5.88 several times this year. It is a good set. I have a couple of them. What good are security screws when anyone can go to HF and get tools for $5.88 to remove them? The people who you *want* to keep out (the ones likely to shock themselves to death with an opened PC power supply) don't *know* that you can do that. They just know that for some reason their Allen wrench set does not work in the torx heads. :-) Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
PoziDrive Screws: Was Hex head vs hex socket head
On 2010-11-21, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Ignoramus3297 wrote: On 2010-11-21, Michael A. Terrell wrote: Ralph wrote: [ ... ] What good are security screws when anyone can go to HF and get tools for $5.88 to remove them? Not all security tools are available to the public. Some I used over 20 years ago still aren't sold without a lot of paperwork. The more common types are more safety related, to keep general idiots out of things. Do you have an example? A hollow oval head used for CATV equipment. Hamlin used them on their descramblers. You could get them out with a pair of dykes, but nor without destroying the screw and damaging the case. Either cost the customer their account, and they could never get cable service with our company, anywhere in the US. A list of violators was kept, along with their personal information for future reference. A five sided version of an Allen head, with a center pin and used for wall plates for addressable taps. For that one you had to buy the taps, controller, wall plates, screws and tools at one time. That one does not sound that difficult for one of us to make. (Hmm ... what would be nice would be some 1/4" hex drill rod stock instead of round to start from. :-) The oval head really would be easier with a CNC surface grinder and an extra axis on an index head or rotary table. Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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