Pete wanted to see my machine. I made NO ATTEMPT to clean up. Lots a
wires hanging around. You can see I'm not done yet.

Problem of the moment is not being able to turn the Z axis ball screw.
I started work on the Z while waiting for some stupid little pins from
Mouser. Otherwise, X and Y servos are ready for testing. I normally
finish one step before starting the next.

The two panel pics is where I've been living lately. Still a lot of
connections to complete. I have the control running and I check out as
I go. Perhaps a more experience refitter would wire the whole damn
thing then check out.

Lots of pics have the camera turned, they are sideways in the dropbox.

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/..._left_high.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...high_front.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...a_io_panel.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...left_front.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/..._left_side.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...ower_panel.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...right_side.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...ol_changer.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...a_side_low.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...ra_spindle.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...lief_valve.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...s_coupling.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...axis_servo.JPG

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:
Pete wanted to see my machine. I made NO ATTEMPT to clean up. Lots a
wires hanging around. You can see I'm not done yet. ...

Dang - that's a complicated machine. What's the Mean Time Between
Failures - an hour or two? G You know, with n parts, each of which
has a probability P of failure in the next hour, the probability that at
least one of the will fail in the next hour is 1-(1-P)^n. E.g., 1000
parts & .01% (10,000 hours MTBF) each is 10% overall.


Lots of pics have the camera turned, they are sideways in the dropbox.
...

You know, you don't have to go to a lot of trouble to rotate a picture -
Windows Picture Viewer ("Preview") will do it. My neck is sore from
twisting to see them. G

Bob

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 20:14:40 -0500, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:
Pete wanted to see my machine. I made NO ATTEMPT to clean up. Lots a
wires hanging around. You can see I'm not done yet. ...

Dang - that's a complicated machine. What's the Mean Time Between
Failures - an hour or two? G You know, with n parts, each of which
has a probability P of failure in the next hour, the probability that at
least one of the will fail in the next hour is 1-(1-P)^n. E.g., 1000
parts & .01% (10,000 hours MTBF) each is 10% overall.


Matsura is Good Stuff. Even machines that old. And it looks to have been
well taken care of. Most often the control boxes are an oil soaked
********. Those look...Nice.

Lots of pics have the camera turned, they are sideways in the dropbox.
...

You know, you don't have to go to a lot of trouble to rotate a picture -
Windows Picture Viewer ("Preview") will do it. My neck is sore from
twisting to see them. G

Bob

--
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 22:26:49 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 20:14:40 -0500, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:
Pete wanted to see my machine. I made NO ATTEMPT to clean up. Lots a
wires hanging around. You can see I'm not done yet. ...

Dang - that's a complicated machine. What's the Mean Time Between
Failures - an hour or two? G You know, with n parts, each of which
has a probability P of failure in the next hour, the probability that at
least one of the will fail in the next hour is 1-(1-P)^n. E.g., 1000
parts & .01% (10,000 hours MTBF) each is 10% overall.


Matsura is Good Stuff. Even machines that old. And it looks to have been
well taken care of. Most often the control boxes are an oil soaked
********. Those look...Nice.

You're right, this is an extremely clean example of a very fine
machine. This old girl don't deserve the scrap heap.

Now, the inside of all the electrical was indeed an oil soaked
********. The two panels you're looking at were stripped bare and
cleaned. There's a lower wire way out to X,Y and the operator panel.
They held more dirt oil and swarf than wire. Julie has been calling me
her laundry problem.

Karl

On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 06:14:29 -0600, Karl Townsend
wrote:

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 22:26:49 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010 20:14:40 -0500, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

Karl Townsend wrote:
Pete wanted to see my machine. I made NO ATTEMPT to clean up. Lots a
wires hanging around. You can see I'm not done yet. ...

Dang - that's a complicated machine. What's the Mean Time Between
Failures - an hour or two? G You know, with n parts, each of which
has a probability P of failure in the next hour, the probability that at
least one of the will fail in the next hour is 1-(1-P)^n. E.g., 1000
parts & .01% (10,000 hours MTBF) each is 10% overall.


Matsura is Good Stuff. Even machines that old. And it looks to have been
well taken care of. Most often the control boxes are an oil soaked
********. Those look...Nice.

You're right, this is an extremely clean example of a very fine
machine. This old girl don't deserve the scrap heap.

Now, the inside of all the electrical was indeed an oil soaked
********. The two panels you're looking at were stripped bare and
cleaned. There's a lower wire way out to X,Y and the operator panel.
They held more dirt oil and swarf than wire. Julie has been calling me
her laundry problem.

Karl

LOL!

very nicely done Karl. Very nicely done indeed. Im looking forwards to
you completing the conversion.

Gunner

--
"Confiscating wealth from those who have earned it, inherited it,
or got lucky is never going to help 'the poor.' Poverty isn't
caused by some people having more money than others, just as obesity
isn't caused by McDonald's serving super-sized orders of French fries
Poverty, like obesity, is caused by the life choices that dictate
results." - John Tucci,

Karl Townsend wrote:

Pete wanted to see my machine. I made NO ATTEMPT to clean up. Lots a
wires hanging around. You can see I'm not done yet.

Problem of the moment is not being able to turn the Z axis ball screw.
I started work on the Z while waiting for some stupid little pins from
Mouser. Otherwise, X and Y servos are ready for testing. I normally
finish one step before starting the next.

The two panel pics is where I've been living lately. Still a lot of
connections to complete. I have the control running and I check out as
I go. Perhaps a more experience refitter would wire the whole damn
thing then check out.

Lots of pics have the camera turned, they are sideways in the dropbox.

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/..._left_high.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...high_front.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...a_io_panel.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...left_front.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/..._left_side.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...ower_panel.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...right_side.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...ol_changer.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...a_side_low.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...ra_spindle.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...lief_valve.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...s_coupling.JPG
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...axis_servo.JPG

Karl

I'll look at them in more detail in the next day or two. I see that your
ATC is not the basic carousel style used on the somewhat smaller
machines. Looks like you'll be needing at least four outputs and about
eight inputs to control it, and a bit more scripting for the tool change
routine. Nothing overly complicated, just a bit more than the basic
carousel type. On that relief valve I believe that the hex nut seen just
past the black knob is the lock nut which prevents the setting from
changing due to vibration. You'll likely need to back that off a good
half to one turn before the knob will turn.

....
I'll look at them in more detail in the next day or two. I see that your
ATC is not the basic carousel style used on the somewhat smaller
machines. Looks like you'll be needing at least four outputs and about
eight inputs to control it, and a bit more scripting for the tool change
routine. Nothing overly complicated, just a bit more than the basic
carousel type. On that relief valve I believe that the hex nut seen just
past the black knob is the lock nut which prevents the setting from
changing due to vibration. You'll likely need to back that off a good
half to one turn before the knob will turn.

Existing ATC has WAY more I/O than that. About 18 outs and 24 - 30
ins. I could reduce ins considerably with two encoders. But, that's
next year's problem.

I'll try again on that relief valve. With two combination wrenches, I
couldn't get these to separate. The whole vave end will easily screw
out though. You can't see from the pic but that 8x8 hole in front of
the relief valve opens up to a cavern that is the whole inside of the
machine and coolant sump. That's where the spring and ball would go
if I take it apart.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:

...
I'll look at them in more detail in the next day or two. I see that your
ATC is not the basic carousel style used on the somewhat smaller
machines. Looks like you'll be needing at least four outputs and about
eight inputs to control it, and a bit more scripting for the tool change
routine. Nothing overly complicated, just a bit more than the basic
carousel type. On that relief valve I believe that the hex nut seen just
past the black knob is the lock nut which prevents the setting from
changing due to vibration. You'll likely need to back that off a good
half to one turn before the knob will turn.

Existing ATC has WAY more I/O than that. About 18 outs and 24 - 30
ins. I could reduce ins considerably with two encoders. But, that's
next year's problem.

Good grief, are you sure? Looking at it I can't see where they could be
using that many I/Os.


I'll try again on that relief valve. With two combination wrenches, I
couldn't get these to separate. The whole vave end will easily screw
out though. You can't see from the pic but that 8x8 hole in front of
the relief valve opens up to a cavern that is the whole inside of the
machine and coolant sump. That's where the spring and ball would go
if I take it apart.

You might need to hold the round part with vise grips while loosening
that lock nut if the locknut is tighter than the round part. If you do
take it apart, duct tape a gal zip lock bag around the area and remove
the part inside the bag.

Existing ATC has WAY more I/O than that. About 18 outs and 24 - 30
ins. I could reduce ins considerably with two encoders. But, that's
next year's problem.

Good grief, are you sure? Looking at it I can't see where they could be
using that many I/Os.

I've only spent a few minutes with the ins going to the ATC. Just
enough to know there's no need to wire now. But I did count 30 and
have to leave that much room on the input panel for later. The outs
are connected and the solenoids all click, Here's a note listing:

relay green tape power panel - coolant
110- SOL 3R Key lock (Right)
110- SOL 7 Shift H
110- SOL 8 Shift L
110- SOL 11R Drum Revolution CW(Right)
110 SOL 12R Drum Revolution CCW (Right)
110 SOL 13R Drum Revolution Rapid (Right)
110 SOL 14R Drum Pin Out (Right)
110 SOL 9 Oil Mist
110 SOL 10 4 axis clamp
110 SOL 1R Arm Forward (Right)
110 SOL 2R Arm Down (Right)
110 SOL 4R Arm Swing (Right)
110 SOL 5R Unclamp (R )
Keylock (L) SOL 3 (L) 110
Drum Revolution CW ( L) SOL 11L 110
Drum Revolution CCW ( L) SOL 12L 110
Drum Revolution Rapid (L) SOL 13L 110*
Arm Forward (L) SOL 1L 110
Arm Down (L Sol 2L 110
Arm Swing (L) Sol 4L 110
Unclamp (L) SOL 5L 110
hydraulic pump
Spindle Brake 110 volt Or Z axis clamp


Look to the bottom of the IO panel. Its the Opto with all 24 red wires
connected. I'm OUT OF OUTPUTS! The 72 inputs look to all be spoken
for also.

I'm working on a trick to get 16 more outs from the two galil boards
at the very bottom of the IO panel. Don Foreman did the design work on
my last CNC mill when I ran short on that one. Generation 2 will be a
slight improvement. Right now, I'm only a couple short that I know of
- oil cooler and air blast, but there will be more.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:

Existing ATC has WAY more I/O than that. About 18 outs and 24 - 30
ins. I could reduce ins considerably with two encoders. But, that's
next year's problem.

Good grief, are you sure? Looking at it I can't see where they could be
using that many I/Os.

I've only spent a few minutes with the ins going to the ATC. Just
enough to know there's no need to wire now. But I did count 30 and
have to leave that much room on the input panel for later. The outs
are connected and the solenoids all click, Here's a note listing:

relay green tape power panel - coolant
110- SOL 3R Key lock (Right)
110- SOL 7 Shift H
110- SOL 8 Shift L
110- SOL 11R Drum Revolution CW(Right)
110 SOL 12R Drum Revolution CCW (Right)
110 SOL 13R Drum Revolution Rapid (Right)
110 SOL 14R Drum Pin Out (Right)
110 SOL 9 Oil Mist
110 SOL 10 4 axis clamp
110 SOL 1R Arm Forward (Right)
110 SOL 2R Arm Down (Right)
110 SOL 4R Arm Swing (Right)
110 SOL 5R Unclamp (R )
Keylock (L) SOL 3 (L) 110
Drum Revolution CW ( L) SOL 11L 110
Drum Revolution CCW ( L) SOL 12L 110
Drum Revolution Rapid (L) SOL 13L 110*
Arm Forward (L) SOL 1L 110
Arm Down (L Sol 2L 110
Arm Swing (L) Sol 4L 110
Unclamp (L) SOL 5L 110
hydraulic pump
Spindle Brake 110 volt Or Z axis clamp

Look to the bottom of the IO panel. Its the Opto with all 24 red wires
connected. I'm OUT OF OUTPUTS! The 72 inputs look to all be spoken
for also.

I'm working on a trick to get 16 more outs from the two galil boards
at the very bottom of the IO panel. Don Foreman did the design work on
my last CNC mill when I ran short on that one. Generation 2 will be a
slight improvement. Right now, I'm only a couple short that I know of
- oil cooler and air blast, but there will be more.

Karl

Ok, some of those connections look like they have nothing to do with the
ATC, such as the 4th axis clamp output, shift H/L outputs and the
hydraulic pump output (since hydraulics needed for spindle
counterbalance also).

I see this machine actually has two separate ATCs. The obvious answer
there is to just use one initially and ignore the other, cutting your
I/O needs in half. You're not doing production stuff, right, so I can't
see where you would ever really have a use for the second spindle and
ATC.

Presumably "drum" is referring to the tool carousel. Since you're not
doing production, you can probably dispense with both the CCW rotation
and rapid rotation outputs, and simply use one CW rotation output. This
of course would be slower to select the correct tool than bi-directional
rapid searches for the correct pocket, but for non-production use, does
the extra 45 seconds to index fully around vs. reverse one pocket
matter?

Looks like that gets you down to around 8 outputs or so:

1 ATC rotate
2 ATC arm swing
3 ATC arm up/down
4 ATC arm forward/back
5 Spindle unclamp
6 Oil mist (spindle blow I think, this could share an output with
spindle unclamp)

7 Drum pin out (ATC carousel lock?)
8 Keylock (possibly for spindle orient?)

I would expect around 8 inputs as well:

1 ATC carousel home
2 ATC carousel index
3 ATC arm at ATC
4 ATC arm at spindle
5 ATC arm up
6 ATC arm down
7 ATC arm forward
8 ATC arm back

Karl Townsend wrote:

Existing ATC has WAY more I/O than that. About 18 outs and 24 - 30
ins. I could reduce ins considerably with two encoders. But, that's
next year's problem.

Good grief, are you sure? Looking at it I can't see where they could be
using that many I/Os.

I've only spent a few minutes with the ins going to the ATC. Just
enough to know there's no need to wire now. But I did count 30 and
have to leave that much room on the input panel for later. The outs
are connected and the solenoids all click, Here's a note listing:

relay green tape power panel - coolant
110- SOL 3R Key lock (Right)
110- SOL 7 Shift H
110- SOL 8 Shift L
110- SOL 11R Drum Revolution CW(Right)
110 SOL 12R Drum Revolution CCW (Right)
110 SOL 13R Drum Revolution Rapid (Right)
110 SOL 14R Drum Pin Out (Right)
110 SOL 9 Oil Mist
110 SOL 10 4 axis clamp
110 SOL 1R Arm Forward (Right)
110 SOL 2R Arm Down (Right)
110 SOL 4R Arm Swing (Right)
110 SOL 5R Unclamp (R )
Keylock (L) SOL 3 (L) 110
Drum Revolution CW ( L) SOL 11L 110
Drum Revolution CCW ( L) SOL 12L 110
Drum Revolution Rapid (L) SOL 13L 110*
Arm Forward (L) SOL 1L 110
Arm Down (L Sol 2L 110
Arm Swing (L) Sol 4L 110
Unclamp (L) SOL 5L 110
hydraulic pump
Spindle Brake 110 volt Or Z axis clamp


Look to the bottom of the IO panel. Its the Opto with all 24 red wires
connected. I'm OUT OF OUTPUTS! The 72 inputs look to all be spoken
for also.

I'm working on a trick to get 16 more outs from the two galil boards
at the very bottom of the IO panel. Don Foreman did the design work on
my last CNC mill when I ran short on that one. Generation 2 will be a
slight improvement. Right now, I'm only a couple short that I know of
- oil cooler and air blast, but there will be more.

Karl


You could use a couple of the outputs and run them through a binary to
decimal converter. Two outputs would change to four outputs, four
outputs would control sixteen outputs.

John