I'm kinda thinking of making a model airplane muffler or two. These
days the things are generally cast in one piece -- but that isn't going
to work for a one-off.

These things have a header that comes off of the engine, then goes into
a tube-shaped expansion chamber. See some examples he
http://www.mecoa.com/kb/aero/aircraft.htm

I'm thinking that I can fabricate one of these with a machined header,
machined ends, and a section of tube. But it'll all be aluminum, so how
to join the pieces?

I'm assuming that JB weld won't take the heat and will just fall off.
But I'm ready to be corrected.

I don't have a TIG welder, or I'd just select TIGable materials and be
happy.

I do have an oxy-acetylene set, and I certainly know how to solder.

So -- will aluminum brazing work on this? What sort of selection do I
have as far as difficulty vs. results goes? Brands to look for? Avoid?
Places to get stuff? I'd like something that's going to be as strong
(or nearly so) as the parent material and that can be done on a welding
bench with a torch and a vise.

TIA.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On 2010-09-13, Tim Wescott wrote:
I'm kinda thinking of making a model airplane muffler or two. These
days the things are generally cast in one piece -- but that isn't going
to work for a one-off.

These things have a header that comes off of the engine, then goes into
a tube-shaped expansion chamber. See some examples he
http://www.mecoa.com/kb/aero/aircraft.htm

I'm thinking that I can fabricate one of these with a machined header,
machined ends, and a section of tube. But it'll all be aluminum, so how
to join the pieces?

I'm assuming that JB weld won't take the heat and will just fall off.
But I'm ready to be corrected.

I don't have a TIG welder, or I'd just select TIGable materials and be
happy.

I do have an oxy-acetylene set, and I certainly know how to solder.

So -- will aluminum brazing work on this? What sort of selection do I
have as far as difficulty vs. results goes? Brands to look for? Avoid?
Places to get stuff? I'd like something that's going to be as strong
(or nearly so) as the parent material and that can be done on a welding
bench with a torch and a vise.

TIA.


You can weld aluminum with O/A.

i

On Sep 12, 8:13*pm, Tim Wescott wrote:

These things have a header that comes off of the engine, then goes into
a tube-shaped expansion chamber. *See some examples hehttp://www.mecoa.com/kb/aero/aircraft.htm

I'm thinking that I can fabricate one of these with a machined header,
machined ends, and a section of tube. *But it'll all be aluminum, so how
to join the pieces?



Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Serviceshttp://www.wescottdesign.com


Could you use machine screws to hold the header to the front machined
end? And then run a threaded rod through the tube to hold the
machined ends.

Or use lost wax casting to make it as one piece.

Dan

wrote:
On Sep 12, 8:13 pm, Tim Wescott wrote:

These things have a header that comes off of the engine, then goes
into
a tube-shaped expansion chamber. See some examples
hehttp://www.mecoa.com/kb/aero/aircraft.htm

I'm thinking that I can fabricate one of these with a machined
header,
machined ends, and a section of tube. But it'll all be aluminum, so
how
to join the pieces?



Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Serviceshttp://www.wescottdesign.com


Could you use machine screws to hold the header to the front machined
end? And then run a threaded rod through the tube to hold the
machined ends.

Or use lost wax casting to make it as one piece.

Dan

That could be cast with a simple core . For that matter , if it's one that
has the inlet port at 90° to the main muffler , cast it as a solid , machine
the interior , cap the front with a threaded dome . Built an R/C boat once
upon a time . While I was saving up for the radio gear it "got broke" . Long
story ...

--
Snag
Hobby Caster

On 09/12/2010 05:57 PM, Snag wrote:
wrote:
On Sep 12, 8:13 pm, Tim wrote:

These things have a header that comes off of the engine, then goes
into
a tube-shaped expansion chamber. See some examples
hehttp://www.mecoa.com/kb/aero/aircraft.htm

I'm thinking that I can fabricate one of these with a machined
header,
machined ends, and a section of tube. But it'll all be aluminum, so
how
to join the pieces?



Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Serviceshttp://www.wescottdesign.com


Could you use machine screws to hold the header to the front machined
end? And then run a threaded rod through the tube to hold the
machined ends.

Or use lost wax casting to make it as one piece.

Dan

That could be cast with a simple core . For that matter , if it's one that
has the inlet port at 90° to the main muffler , cast it as a solid , machine
the interior , cap the front with a threaded dome . Built an R/C boat once
upon a time . While I was saving up for the radio gear it "got broke" . Long
story ...

You would have to suggest that. And here I have a Vibration & Stratton
engine that's just crying out to be broken into bits and recycled as all
sorts of nifty stuff.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 22:19:57 -0700, Tim Wescott
wrote:

You would have to suggest that. And here I have a Vibration & Stratton
engine that's just crying out to be broken into bits and recycled as all
sorts of nifty stuff.

You meant to say "Briggs and ScrapEm" engine, right?

--
Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins
when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
-- Peter Minard

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
I'm kinda thinking of making a model airplane muffler or two. These
days the things are generally cast in one piece -- but that isn't going
to work for a one-off.

These things have a header that comes off of the engine, then goes into
a tube-shaped expansion chamber. See some examples he
http://www.mecoa.com/kb/aero/aircraft.htm

I'm thinking that I can fabricate one of these with a machined header,
machined ends, and a section of tube. But it'll all be aluminum, so how
to join the pieces?

I'm assuming that JB weld won't take the heat and will just fall off.
But I'm ready to be corrected.

I don't have a TIG welder, or I'd just select TIGable materials and be
happy.

I do have an oxy-acetylene set, and I certainly know how to solder.

So -- will aluminum brazing work on this? What sort of selection do I
have as far as difficulty vs. results goes? Brands to look for? Avoid?
Places to get stuff? I'd like something that's going to be as strong
(or nearly so) as the parent material and that can be done on a welding
bench with a torch and a vise.

TIA.


I've used aluminum solder with success. The hard part is to keep the
base aluminum from forming an oxide coating before the solder flows.
I don't know what the solder metal is but my file tells me it is harder
than aluminum. I bought the rods at ace HW which were similar to
these.
http://www.plumbersurplus.com/Prod/B...u=313530363035
Art

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
I'm kinda thinking of making a model airplane muffler or two. These days
the things are generally cast in one piece -- but that isn't going to work
for a one-off.

These things have a header that comes off of the engine, then goes into a
tube-shaped expansion chamber. See some examples he
http://www.mecoa.com/kb/aero/aircraft.htm

I'm thinking that I can fabricate one of these with a machined header,
machined ends, and a section of tube. But it'll all be aluminum, so how
to join the pieces?

I'm assuming that JB weld won't take the heat and will just fall off. But
I'm ready to be corrected.

I don't have a TIG welder, or I'd just select TIGable materials and be
happy.

I do have an oxy-acetylene set, and I certainly know how to solder.

So -- will aluminum brazing work on this? What sort of selection do I
have as far as difficulty vs. results goes? Brands to look for? Avoid?
Places to get stuff? I'd like something that's going to be as strong (or
nearly so) as the parent material and that can be done on a welding bench
with a torch and a vise.

TIA.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

I have done just a little aluminum brazing. The tricky thing is that it
does not flow into gaps (unless there is a technique using flux I do not
know about). You scrape the surface with the rod and it will stick where
scraped. You can also deposit a blob and then spread it as you scrape with a
screwdriver or wire brush. You can tin both sides before assembling and
then press together while melting. Be very careful about melting the parts
themselves. The braze melting point is only slightly lower than the
aluminum.

--FWIW try making a model engine muffler using wood and epoxy; I've
seen it done and the accoustics are ...interesting.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Beauty times brains
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : is a constant..
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

On Sep 12, 5:13*pm, Tim Wescott wrote:
I'm kinda thinking of making a model airplane muffler or two. *These
days the things are generally cast in one piece -- but that isn't going
to work for a one-off.

These things have a header that comes off of the engine, then goes into
a tube-shaped expansion chamber. *See some examples hehttp://www.mecoa.com/kb/aero/aircraft.htm

I'm thinking that I can fabricate one of these with a machined header,
machined ends, and a section of tube. *But it'll all be aluminum, so how
to join the pieces?

I'm assuming that JB weld won't take the heat and will just fall off.
But I'm ready to be corrected.

I don't have a TIG welder, or I'd just select TIGable materials and be
happy.

I do have an oxy-acetylene set, and I certainly know how to solder.

So -- will aluminum brazing work on this? *What sort of selection do I
have as far as difficulty vs. results goes? *Brands to look for? *Avoid?
* Places to get stuff? *I'd like something that's going to be as strong
(or nearly so) as the parent material and that can be done on a welding
bench with a torch and a vise.

TIA.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Serviceshttp://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details athttp://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Hi, Tim.

JB Weld will easily take 650 degree F. Will change color, though.

Paul

Tim Wescott wrote:
I'm kinda thinking of making a model airplane muffler or two. These
days the things are generally cast in one piece -- but that isn't going
to work for a one-off.

These things have a header that comes off of the engine, then goes into
a tube-shaped expansion chamber. See some examples he
http://www.mecoa.com/kb/aero/aircraft.htm

I'm thinking that I can fabricate one of these with a machined header,
machined ends, and a section of tube. But it'll all be aluminum, so how
to join the pieces?

I'm assuming that JB weld won't take the heat and will just fall off.
But I'm ready to be corrected.

I don't have a TIG welder, or I'd just select TIGable materials and be
happy.

I do have an oxy-acetylene set, and I certainly know how to solder.

So -- will aluminum brazing work on this? What sort of selection do I
have as far as difficulty vs. results goes? Brands to look for? Avoid?
Places to get stuff? I'd like something that's going to be as strong
(or nearly so) as the parent material and that can be done on a welding
bench with a torch and a vise.

TIA.


I have welded a LOT of aluminum with O/A. Just need to use the same
allow for filler as you have for sheet stock. O/A was the preferred
method for joining a lot of aluminum items for years. Once you get it
down as a skill it's a LOT of fun. Plus with the O/A you can easily
remove stresses in the finished product.


--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On 09/12/2010 08:05 PM, Steve W. wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
I'm kinda thinking of making a model airplane muffler or two. These
days the things are generally cast in one piece -- but that isn't going
to work for a one-off.

These things have a header that comes off of the engine, then goes into
a tube-shaped expansion chamber. See some examples he
http://www.mecoa.com/kb/aero/aircraft.htm

I'm thinking that I can fabricate one of these with a machined header,
machined ends, and a section of tube. But it'll all be aluminum, so how
to join the pieces?

I'm assuming that JB weld won't take the heat and will just fall off.
But I'm ready to be corrected.

I don't have a TIG welder, or I'd just select TIGable materials and be
happy.

I do have an oxy-acetylene set, and I certainly know how to solder.

So -- will aluminum brazing work on this? What sort of selection do I
have as far as difficulty vs. results goes? Brands to look for? Avoid?
Places to get stuff? I'd like something that's going to be as strong
(or nearly so) as the parent material and that can be done on a welding
bench with a torch and a vise.

TIA.


I have welded a LOT of aluminum with O/A. Just need to use the same
allow for filler as you have for sheet stock. O/A was the preferred
method for joining a lot of aluminum items for years. Once you get it
down as a skill it's a LOT of fun. Plus with the O/A you can easily
remove stresses in the finished product.

Part of the reason I want to braze is because I have a lot of odds and
ends that aren't necessarily going to be easy-to-weld alloys, no matter
how nice they are to machine.

But I'll leave your suggestion in the back of my mind -- it's a good
one, and if there are such I can just stock up on alloys that are easy
to both weld and machine.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On 09/12/2010 05:13 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
I'm kinda thinking of making a model airplane muffler or two. These
days the things are generally cast in one piece -- but that isn't going
to work for a one-off.

These things have a header that comes off of the engine, then goes into
a tube-shaped expansion chamber. See some examples he
http://www.mecoa.com/kb/aero/aircraft.htm

I'm thinking that I can fabricate one of these with a machined header,
machined ends, and a section of tube. But it'll all be aluminum, so how
to join the pieces?

I'm assuming that JB weld won't take the heat and will just fall off.
But I'm ready to be corrected.

I don't have a TIG welder, or I'd just select TIGable materials and be
happy.

I do have an oxy-acetylene set, and I certainly know how to solder.

So -- will aluminum brazing work on this? What sort of selection do I
have as far as difficulty vs. results goes? Brands to look for? Avoid?
Places to get stuff? I'd like something that's going to be as strong (or
nearly so) as the parent material and that can be done on a welding
bench with a torch and a vise.

TIA.


Update: the local welding shop has an aluminum soldering kit and
aluminum brazing flux, but was out of aluminum brazing rod. They had
some zinc-alloy rod that may or may not have worked with the aluminum
brazing flux, in a size way bigger than my job.

So I got the soldering kit.

I'm going to see how well the soldering process works -- if it seems
almost but not quite strong enough then I'll try brazing, if it works a
charm I won't change.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 14:06:46 -0700, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On 09/12/2010 05:13 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
I'm kinda thinking of making a model airplane muffler or two. These
days the things are generally cast in one piece -- but that isn't going
to work for a one-off.

These things have a header that comes off of the engine, then goes into
a tube-shaped expansion chamber. See some examples he
http://www.mecoa.com/kb/aero/aircraft.htm

I'm thinking that I can fabricate one of these with a machined header,
machined ends, and a section of tube. But it'll all be aluminum, so how
to join the pieces?

I'm assuming that JB weld won't take the heat and will just fall off.
But I'm ready to be corrected.

I don't have a TIG welder, or I'd just select TIGable materials and be
happy.

I do have an oxy-acetylene set, and I certainly know how to solder.

So -- will aluminum brazing work on this? What sort of selection do I
have as far as difficulty vs. results goes? Brands to look for? Avoid?
Places to get stuff? I'd like something that's going to be as strong (or
nearly so) as the parent material and that can be done on a welding
bench with a torch and a vise.

TIA.


Update: the local welding shop has an aluminum soldering kit and
aluminum brazing flux, but was out of aluminum brazing rod. They had
some zinc-alloy rod that may or may not have worked with the aluminum
brazing flux, in a size way bigger than my job.

So I got the soldering kit.

I'm going to see how well the soldering process works -- if it seems
almost but not quite strong enough then I'll try brazing, if it works a
charm I won't change.
I've got about 3 lbs of AluSol sitting in the garage - flux cored
solder for aluminum.

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...


Update: the local welding shop has an aluminum soldering kit and
aluminum brazing flux, but was out of aluminum brazing rod. They had
some zinc-alloy rod that may or may not have worked with the aluminum
brazing flux, in a size way bigger than my job.

So I got the soldering kit.

I'm going to see how well the soldering process works -- if it seems
almost but not quite strong enough then I'll try brazing, if it works a
charm I won't change.

--

Tim Wescott

As you have an OA torch it seems to me that if you use a reducing
flame the aluminum will have less of an opportunity to form an oxide
coating and may solder easier. Expert opinion anyone?
Art

On 09/14/2010 06:08 PM, Artemus wrote:
"Tim wrote in message
...


Update: the local welding shop has an aluminum soldering kit and
aluminum brazing flux, but was out of aluminum brazing rod. They had
some zinc-alloy rod that may or may not have worked with the aluminum
brazing flux, in a size way bigger than my job.

So I got the soldering kit.

I'm going to see how well the soldering process works -- if it seems
almost but not quite strong enough then I'll try brazing, if it works a
charm I won't change.

--

Tim Wescott

As you have an OA torch it seems to me that if you use a reducing
flame the aluminum will have less of an opportunity to form an oxide
coating and may solder easier. Expert opinion anyone?

AFAIK that would only slow things down. Keep in mind that aluminum is
so electronegative that it'll reduce rust back to iron, and produce
enough heat in the process to melt the iron to steel (think "thermite
welding"). I don't know if it can reduce CO or CO2, but I wouldn't be
surprised.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
news

As you have an OA torch it seems to me that if you use a reducing
flame the aluminum will have less of an opportunity to form an oxide
coating and may solder easier. Expert opinion anyone?

AFAIK that would only slow things down. Keep in mind that aluminum is
so electronegative that it'll reduce rust back to iron, and produce
enough heat in the process to melt the iron to steel (think "thermite
welding"). I don't know if it can reduce CO or CO2, but I wouldn't be
surprised.

--

Tim Wescott

That's a good point. I don't know either but it would be easy and quick
to test.
Art

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 14:27:24 -0700, "Artemus"
wrote:


"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
news

As you have an OA torch it seems to me that if you use a reducing
flame the aluminum will have less of an opportunity to form an oxide
coating and may solder easier. Expert opinion anyone?

AFAIK that would only slow things down. Keep in mind that aluminum is
so electronegative that it'll reduce rust back to iron, and produce
enough heat in the process to melt the iron to steel (think "thermite
welding"). I don't know if it can reduce CO or CO2, but I wouldn't be
surprised.

--

Tim Wescott

That's a good point. I don't know either but it would be easy and quick
to test.
Art

The zinc type alubraze rods work pretty good - I've used "3.4.1
ideal rod" from amrelle Sales in Whitby Ontario to make canoe racks,
bicycle racks tor the back of my camper trailer and a bunch of other
stuff and have never had a joint failure.