I was digging around looking for a cheaper 12 volt linear actuator
(for remote steering outboard motor) and came across this site..

https://www.surpluscenter.com/home.asp

http://www.surpluscenter.com/prodIndex.asp#LL

enjoy!

--

Richard Lamb

On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 23:22:09 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

I was digging around looking for a cheaper 12 volt linear actuator
(for remote steering outboard motor) and came across this site..

https://www.surpluscenter.com/home.asp

http://www.surpluscenter.com/prodIndex.asp#LL

enjoy!

Great company. been getting stuff from them for years. Buy from them
and you'll get sale catalogs

karl

http://www.surpluscenter.com/prodIndex.asp#LL

Whole buncha toggle clamps.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/prodIndex.asp#LL

Whole buncha toggle clamps.

On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 23:22:09 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

I was digging around looking for a cheaper 12 volt linear actuator
(for remote steering outboard motor) and came across this site..

https://www.surpluscenter.com/home.asp

http://www.surpluscenter.com/prodIndex.asp#LL

enjoy!

Sounds like an interesting project.

Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 23:22:09 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

I was digging around looking for a cheaper 12 volt linear actuator
(for remote steering outboard motor) and came across this site..

https://www.surpluscenter.com/home.asp

http://www.surpluscenter.com/prodIndex.asp#LL

enjoy!

Sounds like an interesting project.

Interesting - as in "may you live in interesting times"?
Or maybe more to the point...
"Necessity is the mother of some really strange kids"?


I suspect most of us here have some control freak in our nature.
Therefore, I suspect most of us expect a machine to be controllable (well Duh!).
So a 6000 pound boat that ISN'T under control is pretty scary.
Especially in really tight quarters, surrounded by a bunch of way more expensive
other-people's boats! With people watching every move!

My motor is mounted on the transom (or what there is of a transom) about 3 feet
port of the centerline of the boat.

The transom itself is a "walk-through" type (aka Sugar Scoop) and has a cute
flip-over boarding ladder in the center. There is 2 or 3 inches clearance
between the motor and ladder.

Add to all that, the motor is turned just a bit so that it compensates for the
off-center thrust at cruise. (vectored thrust compensation) It works
beautifully - at cruise.

So the motor's thrust, being offset to port, tends to make the boat turn to
starboard.

In smaller sailboats the motor can be steered just like a fishing boat. But
larger sailboats, for some traditional reason unknown to modern man, usually
have he motor locked down and use remote controls for gear shift and throttle.

So, just like her diesel powered sisters, she tends to go where she wants to go
rather than where I want her to go. Left to her own wiles, she will _not_ back
to starboard (period), and getting going from a dead stop will usually involve
some amount of turning to starboard.

Newton trumps Einstein!

So...
Did I mention that there is no tiller on a remote-throttle motor???

It doesn't matter, because all outboard motors have the tiller mounted on the
port side (way out of reach if the motor is hung on the port side!).

Anyway...
I've removed the lock pin from the motor so that it can be rotated.

My one-man Keystone Cops routine consists of stepping out on the boarding deck,
laying both hands on the motor cowl and turning the motor to point as needed,
then putting it in gear and slowly (EVER SO SLOWLY!) backing out. (The rudder
rotates 360 degrees on this boat, so it can help some, but no way the rudder can
overpower the motor). It doesn't look too bad from the pier (neighbors have
commented on the apparent smooth control of the boat when undocking. But they
are not aboard doing this funky Texas Two-step)

Once 3/4 clear of the pier, select neutral, step back out on the back porch and
twist the motor the other way, back to the controls in the cockpit to shift into
forward, stop the turn, back out back again to straighten up the motor...

And woe be unto anyone in the cockpit who accidentally gets in the way!

There are several possible obvious solutions here.

One might be to install a normal outboard "thru-the-tilt-tube" steering system.
But the catch there is that all of those systems stick out ot the tilt-tube a
foot or more(!) and foul the boarding ladder.

Or

Adapt a steering tiller to the starboard side?!? (very possible)
(a bent bracket bolted to the motor and a hickory stick - pretty simple)

Or

Move the motor to the starboard side (and replace the old mount with a new
swing-up mount - oh yes, and swap the back stay to port (where it should have
been in the first place!) And, relocate the throttle control to the starboard
side of the cockpit...

Or

Figure out a more compact steering mechanism. There are several electric
systems on the market (Panther for instance) but ALL mount off-center of the
motor. Won't work here. Bummer

So, noticing a 12 volt _POWERED_ scissor jack on a new car (WTF?!?!?!), I
wondered if such a drive might be available to solve my silly problems..
A couple of bent steel brackets and a 12 inch actuator?.
Hmmm....


In the end, I'll probably wind up moving the motor to starboard this winter.

But electric steering??? Way cool!

Next thing I'll probably want wireless remote control too!

(Honey! Where's the remote???)

--

Richard Lamb

CaveLamb wrote:

But electric steering??? Way cool!

Next thing I'll probably want wireless remote control too!

(Honey! Where's the remote???)



Just for reference...

http://www.vermontficks.org/seatalk_..._remote.d.html

--

Richard Lamb

On Fri, 10 Sep 2010 13:51:38 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 23:22:09 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

I was digging around looking for a cheaper 12 volt linear actuator
(for remote steering outboard motor) and came across this site..

https://www.surpluscenter.com/home.asp

http://www.surpluscenter.com/prodIndex.asp#LL

enjoy!

Sounds like an interesting project.

Interesting - as in "may you live in interesting times"?
Or maybe more to the point...
"Necessity is the mother of some really strange kids"?


I suspect most of us here have some control freak in our nature.
Therefore, I suspect most of us expect a machine to be controllable (well Duh!).
So a 6000 pound boat that ISN'T under control is pretty scary.
Especially in really tight quarters, surrounded by a bunch of way more expensive
other-people's boats! With people watching every move!

My motor is mounted on the transom (or what there is of a transom) about 3 feet
port of the centerline of the boat.

The transom itself is a "walk-through" type (aka Sugar Scoop) and has a cute
flip-over boarding ladder in the center. There is 2 or 3 inches clearance
between the motor and ladder.

Add to all that, the motor is turned just a bit so that it compensates for the
off-center thrust at cruise. (vectored thrust compensation) It works
beautifully - at cruise.

So the motor's thrust, being offset to port, tends to make the boat turn to
starboard.

In smaller sailboats the motor can be steered just like a fishing boat. But
larger sailboats, for some traditional reason unknown to modern man, usually
have he motor locked down and use remote controls for gear shift and throttle.

So, just like her diesel powered sisters, she tends to go where she wants to go
rather than where I want her to go. Left to her own wiles, she will _not_ back
to starboard (period), and getting going from a dead stop will usually involve
some amount of turning to starboard.

Newton trumps Einstein!

So...
Did I mention that there is no tiller on a remote-throttle motor???

It doesn't matter, because all outboard motors have the tiller mounted on the
port side (way out of reach if the motor is hung on the port side!).

Anyway...
I've removed the lock pin from the motor so that it can be rotated.

My one-man Keystone Cops routine consists of stepping out on the boarding deck,
laying both hands on the motor cowl and turning the motor to point as needed,
then putting it in gear and slowly (EVER SO SLOWLY!) backing out. (The rudder
rotates 360 degrees on this boat, so it can help some, but no way the rudder can
overpower the motor). It doesn't look too bad from the pier (neighbors have
commented on the apparent smooth control of the boat when undocking. But they
are not aboard doing this funky Texas Two-step)

Once 3/4 clear of the pier, select neutral, step back out on the back porch and
twist the motor the other way, back to the controls in the cockpit to shift into
forward, stop the turn, back out back again to straighten up the motor...

And woe be unto anyone in the cockpit who accidentally gets in the way!

There are several possible obvious solutions here.

One might be to install a normal outboard "thru-the-tilt-tube" steering system.
But the catch there is that all of those systems stick out ot the tilt-tube a
foot or more(!) and foul the boarding ladder.

Or

Adapt a steering tiller to the starboard side?!? (very possible)
(a bent bracket bolted to the motor and a hickory stick - pretty simple)

Or

Move the motor to the starboard side (and replace the old mount with a new
swing-up mount - oh yes, and swap the back stay to port (where it should have
been in the first place!) And, relocate the throttle control to the starboard
side of the cockpit...

Or

Figure out a more compact steering mechanism. There are several electric
systems on the market (Panther for instance) but ALL mount off-center of the
motor. Won't work here. Bummer

So, noticing a 12 volt _POWERED_ scissor jack on a new car (WTF?!?!?!), I
wondered if such a drive might be available to solve my silly problems..
A couple of bent steel brackets and a 12 inch actuator?.
Hmmm....


In the end, I'll probably wind up moving the motor to starboard this winter.

But electric steering??? Way cool!

Next thing I'll probably want wireless remote control too!

(Honey! Where's the remote???)

Keep us posted!

Don Foreman wrote:
On Fri, 10 Sep 2010 13:51:38 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 23:22:09 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

I was digging around looking for a cheaper 12 volt linear actuator
(for remote steering outboard motor) and came across this site..

https://www.surpluscenter.com/home.asp

http://www.surpluscenter.com/prodIndex.asp#LL

enjoy!
Sounds like an interesting project.
Interesting - as in "may you live in interesting times"?
Or maybe more to the point...
"Necessity is the mother of some really strange kids"?

mega-snip

(Honey! Where's the remote???)

Keep us posted!

Thanks Don, but I'll not pursue that one.

I'm a charter member of the "keep is simple and stupid" fan club.
(Ed Heinemann was my favorite hero - "Simplicate and add lightness!)

Sailing is not always blue blazers and white duck trousers.

All the things we do on the boat have to be "do-able" in 30+
knots wind, with the boat pitching and rolling, green water
washing over the deck, in pitch dark, while trying to do something
else at the same time.

So my boat systems tend to be simple, manually powered where possible,
and take as little training to operate as I can arrange.

We have GPS and an autopilot. But they don't get used very much.

This winter, when I pull the boat (gads! in a month or so???).
We'll pull the motor off and move it to the starboard side (and
swap the back stay to port - where it should have been in the
first place).

We have a slight list to port because all the heavy stuff is installed
on the port side. So moving the motor over will make a big difference.

That puts the motor's tiller side where it can be reached from the cockpit,
and a hickory stick about 2-1/2 feet long will solve all my silly problems -
as far as steering the motor goes, anyway.
It's pretty hard to get any simpler than that.

I'd like to do away with the swing up motor mount as well. It's an extra
step required to deploy the motor and it can't be done from the cockpit.
(BEsides, the girls simply can't do it. (or won't - not that there's much
difference)





There are two pics of the mount I'd like to find at the bottom of the
page...
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~capri26/motor.htm

But it seems like nobody makes that simple mount any more (not even China).

I think it would be pretty simple for a real metal smith to make.
Heavy stainless steel sheet, cut, bent, welded.

If anybody knows where to find one, I'll email your favorite libation
for a link!

Or, if anybody would be interested in making one, I'd pay gladly for it!

--

Richard Lamb

On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 00:28:54 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:


There are two pics of the mount I'd like to find at the bottom of the
page...
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~capri26/motor.htm

But it seems like nobody makes that simple mount any more (not even China).

I think it would be pretty simple for a real metal smith to make.
Heavy stainless steel sheet, cut, bent, welded.

Your thought is correct. That would indeed be an easy peasy job if
all the details were known.

If anybody knows where to find one, I'll email your favorite libation
for a link!

Or, if anybody would be interested in making one, I'd pay gladly for it!

Since you don't have a dimensioned and detailed drawing and
specification that a metalworker could "build to print", you'll need
a local artisan who can look at the job, discuss it with you until all
of your wants and preferences are defined and understood, and then
design and make what you want.

Perhaps you'd prefer a metalworker that has some experience with
handling a rolling, pitching sailboat in 30+ knot winds in pitch dark
with green water washing over the decks while trying to do something
else. That might narrow the field a bit.

Don Foreman wrote:
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 00:28:54 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:


There are two pics of the mount I'd like to find at the bottom of the
page...
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~capri26/motor.htm

But it seems like nobody makes that simple mount any more (not even China).

I think it would be pretty simple for a real metal smith to make.
Heavy stainless steel sheet, cut, bent, welded.

Your thought is correct. That would indeed be an easy peasy job if
all the details were known.
If anybody knows where to find one, I'll email your favorite libation
for a link!

Or, if anybody would be interested in making one, I'd pay gladly for it!

Since you don't have a dimensioned and detailed drawing and
specification that a metalworker could "build to print", you'll need
a local artisan who can look at the job, discuss it with you until all
of your wants and preferences are defined and understood, and then
design and make what you want.

Perhaps you'd prefer a metalworker that has some experience with
handling a rolling, pitching sailboat in 30+ knot winds in pitch dark
with green water washing over the decks while trying to do something
else. That might narrow the field a bit.



Might narrow the field a tad TOO much.

Besides, I doubt the equipment would fit through the hatch...
And would probably sink the boat with the weight anyway.
If not it would for sure rust up a mill right quick!

I can draw the thing.
Detailed and dimensioned.
I can do engineering drawings pretty well.

(I'd just need to get the dimensions and details from one of the
guys who has one. There are several in our fleet)

But cutting, welding, and passivating stainless is a bit beyond
my garage shop skills.

Start the bidding at $200?

--

Richard Lamb

On Sep 12, 3:41*am, CaveLamb wrote:


I can draw the thing.
Detailed and dimensioned.
I can do engineering drawings pretty well.

(I'd just need to get the dimensions and details from one of the
guys who has one. *There are several in our fleet)

But cutting, welding, and passivating stainless is a bit beyond
my garage shop skills.

Start the bidding at $200?

--

Richard Lamb

After you get the drawing made, post it over in
sci.engr.joining.welding. Ernie does things like that including the
passivating.

Dan

On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 17:20:54 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sep 12, 3:41*am, CaveLamb wrote:


I can draw the thing.
Detailed and dimensioned.
I can do engineering drawings pretty well.

(I'd just need to get the dimensions and details from one of the
guys who has one. *There are several in our fleet)

But cutting, welding, and passivating stainless is a bit beyond
my garage shop skills.

Start the bidding at $200?

--

Richard Lamb

After you get the drawing made, post it over in
sci.engr.joining.welding. Ernie does things like that including the
passivating.

Dan

Good suggestion, Dan. Passivation of SS is (or at least used to be)
done with nitric acid, not easy for amateurs to get these days but
those in the biz should have no trouble. I have a gallon of fuming
nitric from back in the day but I'm hoarding it. Maybe it's done
with citric acid now. I've no idea where I'd get a jug of citric acid.

All passivation really does is dispose of surface Fe molecules that
might oxidize and stain. A non-passivated SS object won't rust away
and lose structural integrity like mild steel, it just won't stay as
polished pretty for the white ducks and blue blazer set.

Wonder why aluminum wouldn't suffice here. It's easier to weld because
it doesn't require backing gas. Might need to be thicker stock, so
what?

I am not picking on you, Richard, honest I'm not. I'm just cautious,
having been a consulting engineer as a side job for several decades.
People think they specify what they want and then are disappointed
when what they specified doesn't work as they expected. I purely hate
disappointing customers and I also hate doing any job twice. I don't
need a job. I'm retired.

I make stuff like this for my friends and neighbors all the time, it's
part of what I do in my retirement. I do it freely, knowing they're
there to help me out if and when I need a hand. They would be anyway
so I do what I can whenever I can.

On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 01:21:06 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:


Good suggestion, Dan. Passivation of SS is (or at least used to be)
done with nitric acid, not easy for amateurs to get these days but
those in the biz should have no trouble. I have a gallon of fuming
nitric from back in the day but I'm hoarding it. Maybe it's done
with citric acid now. I've no idea where I'd get a jug of citric acid.

http://www.tradekey.com/product_view/id/59309.htm


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 11:35:32 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

J. D. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 11:24:27 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 02:41:10 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:

Don Foreman wrote:
On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 00:28:54 -0500, CaveLamb
wrote:


There are two pics of the mount I'd like to find at the bottom of the
page...
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~capri26/motor.htm

But it seems like nobody makes that simple mount any more (not even China).

I think it would be pretty simple for a real metal smith to make.
Heavy stainless steel sheet, cut, bent, welded.
Your thought is correct. That would indeed be an easy peasy job if
all the details were known.
If anybody knows where to find one, I'll email your favorite libation
for a link!

Or, if anybody would be interested in making one, I'd pay gladly for it!
Since you don't have a dimensioned and detailed drawing and
specification that a metalworker could "build to print", you'll need
a local artisan who can look at the job, discuss it with you until all
of your wants and preferences are defined and understood, and then
design and make what you want.

Perhaps you'd prefer a metalworker that has some experience with
handling a rolling, pitching sailboat in 30+ knot winds in pitch dark
with green water washing over the decks while trying to do something
else. That might narrow the field a bit.


Might narrow the field a tad TOO much.

Besides, I doubt the equipment would fit through the hatch...
And would probably sink the boat with the weight anyway.
If not it would for sure rust up a mill right quick!

I can draw the thing.
Detailed and dimensioned.
I can do engineering drawings pretty well.

(I'd just need to get the dimensions and details from one of the
guys who has one. There are several in our fleet)

But cutting, welding, and passivating stainless is a bit beyond
my garage shop skills.

Start the bidding at $200?
Shouldn't be hard to get responses once you have a print and a spec.

Passivation might be an issue. You might need to separate that -- have
one shop make the device and a metal treatment shop passivate it. Up
here I'd have Deburring, Inc in St. Paul do that.

On the other hand, if there is a marine artificer there (and I'd think
there'd have to be), your part would probably be easy for him.


The mount you show is pretty simple to make. I wouldn't try to bend
stainless - not that you can't do it but it would probably be easier
to cut four sides and weld them together.

If you get some flat stainless the correct thickness you can cut the
four sides in probably less then an hour with a 4" angle grinder and a
1 mm cutoff wheel. Once you get them cut finish grind them to size in
pairs (R & L sides, Front & back), drill any required holes and either
weld them yourself or have them welded. Passivation can be done with
Stainless Pickling gel (paint it on, wait a bit and wash with clean
water) or can be polished to a gloss.

I'd reckon that with a 4" angle grinder, a DC arc welder and a handful
of stainless electrodes and a bottle of pickling gel it can be
finished by supper time.

Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)


I have a steel cutting blade in my chop saw, so I'm actually a little
more advanced than a 4" angle grinder (a LITTLE bit any way).

There is that pesky break in the sides that gives it some lateral
stiffness. Other than that, not a bad suggestion.


I'm not sure about using a chop saw with stainless (I don't have one
anyway) The problem is that stainless work hardens very easily and
possible would using a saw.

I have an extremely slow connection but what you posted looked like a
four sided mount. If you want more lateral strength you can either
weld stiffeners to the sides, make it out of slightly thicker metal or
put a top and bottom on it with a large hole to allow access to
internal fasteners.

Buy seriously, if you have a welding machine and can weld a bit then
stainless is not at all difficult to arc weld. Use 3/32 rod, of even
smaller and grind between passes if necessary. Try a few test pieces
and you'll be surprised how easy it is.

You must passivate it though. I don't know about the U.S. but over
here every shop that stocks stainless rod also stocks the passivation
get/liquid. I've also used various acid containing cleaners - one tile
cleaner has 20% acid... but they don't work anywhere as well as the
real passivation stuff which contains, IIRC, both nitric and sulphuric
acid.

someone else's suggestion. I once built a clip on outboard mount
for a soft tail inflatable. Had it galvanized and then painted it with
two part paint. Lasted until I sold the boat. Powder coating might
also work.
Cheers,

John D. Slocomb
(jdslocombatgmail)