I have been bouncing around an idea for a specialty screw less vise. I've
got the shape and design figured out, and I think I have the machine
processes to make it figured out. I'm still struggling with the exact best
way to drill the pin holes, but that's not my hold up. I'm trying to
decided what material to make it out of. The cheap steel that the Harbor
freight vises are cast from machines nicely, but I don't know what it is,
and I'm not sure it would be rigid enough. I could do it with aluminum
easily enough, but I really don't think that would work very well. If the
design works I can see myself using this vise for many many years, and even
custom designing it for other machines. It doesn't have to withstand tons
of holding force, but it should be able to handle upto 100 lbs of holding
force with minimal distortion. I know, make it heavy, but the idea is
really geared towards mini machines, so heavy really is not an option. I
suspect a 75 lb vise would cause or contribute to motor stalling on some of
these machines.

Bob La Londe wrote:

I have been bouncing around an idea for a specialty screw less vise. I've
got the shape and design figured out, and I think I have the machine
processes to make it figured out. I'm still struggling with the exact best
way to drill the pin holes, but that's not my hold up. I'm trying to
decided what material to make it out of. The cheap steel that the Harbor
freight vises are cast from machines nicely, but I don't know what it is,
and I'm not sure it would be rigid enough. I could do it with aluminum
easily enough, but I really don't think that would work very well. If the
design works I can see myself using this vise for many many years, and even
custom designing it for other machines. It doesn't have to withstand tons
of holding force, but it should be able to handle upto 100 lbs of holding
force with minimal distortion. I know, make it heavy, but the idea is
really geared towards mini machines, so heavy really is not an option. I
suspect a 75 lb vise would cause or contribute to motor stalling on some of
these machines.


7075-T6 AL perhaps?

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

I have been bouncing around an idea for a specialty screw less vise.
I've
got the shape and design figured out, and I think I have the machine
processes to make it figured out. I'm still struggling with the exact
best
way to drill the pin holes, but that's not my hold up. I'm trying to
decided what material to make it out of. The cheap steel that the Harbor
freight vises are cast from machines nicely, but I don't know what it is,
and I'm not sure it would be rigid enough. I could do it with aluminum
easily enough, but I really don't think that would work very well. If
the
design works I can see myself using this vise for many many years, and
even
custom designing it for other machines. It doesn't have to withstand
tons
of holding force, but it should be able to handle upto 100 lbs of holding
force with minimal distortion. I know, make it heavy, but the idea is
really geared towards mini machines, so heavy really is not an option. I
suspect a 75 lb vise would cause or contribute to motor stalling on some
of
these machines.


7075-T6 AL perhaps?

I thought about 7075, but was thinking a little harder than T6. You think
T6 would do the trick?

I know they use 7075 for stabilizer links and all kinds of stuff on serious
off road jeeps and rock crawlers. Its strong and machines well I have
heard, but what about elasticity? Isn't the flex part of what makes it so
strong for those applications?

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

I have been bouncing around an idea for a specialty screw less vise.
I've
got the shape and design figured out, and I think I have the machine
processes to make it figured out. I'm still struggling with the exact
best
way to drill the pin holes, but that's not my hold up. I'm trying to
decided what material to make it out of. The cheap steel that the Harbor
freight vises are cast from machines nicely, but I don't know what it is,
and I'm not sure it would be rigid enough. I could do it with aluminum
easily enough, but I really don't think that would work very well. If
the
design works I can see myself using this vise for many many years, and
even
custom designing it for other machines. It doesn't have to withstand
tons
of holding force, but it should be able to handle upto 100 lbs of holding
force with minimal distortion. I know, make it heavy, but the idea is
really geared towards mini machines, so heavy really is not an option. I
suspect a 75 lb vise would cause or contribute to motor stalling on some
of
these machines.


7075-T6 AL perhaps?

I thought about 7075, but was thinking a little harder than T6. You think
T6 would do the trick?

I know they use 7075 for stabilizer links and all kinds of stuff on serious
off road jeeps and rock crawlers. Its strong and machines well I have
heard, but what about elasticity? Isn't the flex part of what makes it so
strong for those applications?


You might have flex in a foot long piece under 1,000# loads, but I don't
think you will have any measurable flex in a small 100# load vise
application.

On Sep 5, 2:13*pm, "Bob La Londe" wrote:
I have been bouncing around an idea for a specialty screw less vise. *

The Harbor Freight vises are made of cast iron. Not as rigid as
steel. Look at Youngs modulus.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/yo...lus-d_773.html

Steel is about three times more rigid than aluminum. Cast iron is a
bit more rigid than aluminum, but less than half as rigid as steel.

Dan

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

I have been bouncing around an idea for a specialty screw less vise.
I've
got the shape and design figured out, and I think I have the machine
processes to make it figured out. I'm still struggling with the exact
best
way to drill the pin holes, but that's not my hold up. I'm trying to
decided what material to make it out of. The cheap steel that the
Harbor
freight vises are cast from machines nicely, but I don't know what it
is,
and I'm not sure it would be rigid enough. I could do it with
aluminum
easily enough, but I really don't think that would work very well. If
the
design works I can see myself using this vise for many many years, and
even
custom designing it for other machines. It doesn't have to withstand
tons
of holding force, but it should be able to handle upto 100 lbs of
holding
force with minimal distortion. I know, make it heavy, but the idea is
really geared towards mini machines, so heavy really is not an option.
I
suspect a 75 lb vise would cause or contribute to motor stalling on
some
of
these machines.


7075-T6 AL perhaps?

I thought about 7075, but was thinking a little harder than T6. You
think
T6 would do the trick?

I know they use 7075 for stabilizer links and all kinds of stuff on
serious
off road jeeps and rock crawlers. Its strong and machines well I have
heard, but what about elasticity? Isn't the flex part of what makes it
so
strong for those applications?


You might have flex in a foot long piece under 1,000# loads, but I don't
think you will have any measurable flex in a small 100# load vise
application.

Ok... I'll start shopping around for some suitable pieces of 7075 for this
project then.

wrote in message
...
On Sep 5, 2:13 pm, "Bob La Londe" wrote:
I have been bouncing around an idea for a specialty screw less vise.

The Harbor Freight vises are made of cast iron. Not as rigid as
steel. Look at Youngs modulus.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/yo...lus-d_773.html

Steel is about three times more rigid than aluminum. Cast iron is a
bit more rigid than aluminum, but less than half as rigid as steel.


Puzzled!
Why do they make lathes out of cast iron? When I was in the market for a
wood lathe I was definitely advised to avoid steel construction and look for
cast iron body because of better rigidity.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

Michael Koblic wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sep 5, 2:13 pm, "Bob La Londe" wrote:
I have been bouncing around an idea for a specialty screw less vise.

The Harbor Freight vises are made of cast iron. Not as rigid as
steel. Look at Youngs modulus.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/yo...lus-d_773.html

Steel is about three times more rigid than aluminum. Cast iron is a
bit more rigid than aluminum, but less than half as rigid as steel.


Puzzled!
Why do they make lathes out of cast iron? When I was in the market
for a wood lathe I was definitely advised to avoid steel construction
and look for cast iron body because of better rigidity.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

My understanding is that it's not the regidity but the vibration-damping
properties of CI that make it more desirable for lathe and other machinery
beds/frames .

--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

On Sep 5, 4:39*pm, "Michael Koblic" wrote:
...
Why do they make lathes out of cast iron? When I was in the market for a
wood lathe I was definitely advised to avoid steel construction and look for
cast iron body because of better rigidity.

--
Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

How much steel vs how much cast iron?

jsw

"Michael Koblic" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Sep 5, 2:13 pm, "Bob La Londe" wrote:
I have been bouncing around an idea for a specialty screw less vise.

The Harbor Freight vises are made of cast iron. Not as rigid as
steel. Look at Youngs modulus.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/yo...lus-d_773.html

Steel is about three times more rigid than aluminum. Cast iron is a
bit more rigid than aluminum, but less than half as rigid as steel.


Puzzled!
Why do they make lathes out of cast iron? When I was in the market for a
wood lathe I was definitely advised to avoid steel construction and look
for cast iron body because of better rigidity.

Cast iron is, or was, a lot cheaper than steel and lends itself to casting.
Steel is a bugger to cast in detailed shapes.

Cast iron damps vibration -- the cheaper and weaker the cast iron, the
better it damps. Steel rings like a bell.

Cast iron is easier to scrape.

Cast iron makes better bearing surfaces with simple lubrication.

It's true that steel is around 20% - 50% more rigid for a given section, but
that's easily overcome with cast iron machine tool construction by the use
of ribs, fillets, varying section thicknesses, etc.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Michael Koblic" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Sep 5, 2:13 pm, "Bob La Londe" wrote:
I have been bouncing around an idea for a specialty screw less vise.

The Harbor Freight vises are made of cast iron. Not as rigid as
steel. Look at Youngs modulus.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/yo...lus-d_773.html

Steel is about three times more rigid than aluminum. Cast iron is a
bit more rigid than aluminum, but less than half as rigid as steel.


Puzzled!
Why do they make lathes out of cast iron? When I was in the market for a
wood lathe I was definitely advised to avoid steel construction and look
for cast iron body because of better rigidity.

Cast iron is, or was, a lot cheaper than steel and lends itself to
casting. Steel is a bugger to cast in detailed shapes.

Cast iron damps vibration -- the cheaper and weaker the cast iron, the
better it damps. Steel rings like a bell.

Cast iron is easier to scrape.

Cast iron makes better bearing surfaces with simple lubrication.

It's true that steel is around 20% - 50% more rigid for a given section,
but that's easily overcome with cast iron machine tool construction by the
use of ribs, fillets, varying section thicknesses, etc.

--

I learn something every day, thanks.

On 2010-09-05, Michael Koblic wrote:

wrote in message
...

[ ... ]

Steel is about three times more rigid than aluminum. Cast iron is a
bit more rigid than aluminum, but less than half as rigid as steel.


Puzzled!
Why do they make lathes out of cast iron? When I was in the market for a
wood lathe I was definitely advised to avoid steel construction and look for
cast iron body because of better rigidity.

Steel rings.

Cast iron damps vibration.

When you're turning, you don't want the vibration building up to
chatter.

If they used steel, they probably used less metal as well (steel
costs more than cast iron, and steel would likely be built up rather
than cast to near final shape and just the bearing surfaces and such
machined smooth.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Good answer, Don. There is no specific superiority between steel and CI any more than there is
between other metals. Each has its place within complex and highly variable sets of design
parameters. In terms of evolution, CI became the dominant material of choice for machine tools at
the dawn of the Industrial age. Now, composites of iron, steel and others are economically feasible
but CI is still the machine tool choice considering all factors.

Bob Swinney
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2010-09-05, Michael Koblic wrote:

wrote in message
...

[ ... ]

Steel is about three times more rigid than aluminum. Cast iron is a
bit more rigid than aluminum, but less than half as rigid as steel.


Puzzled!
Why do they make lathes out of cast iron? When I was in the market for a
wood lathe I was definitely advised to avoid steel construction and look for
cast iron body because of better rigidity.

Steel rings.

Cast iron damps vibration.

When you're turning, you don't want the vibration building up to
chatter.

If they used steel, they probably used less metal as well (steel
costs more than cast iron, and steel would likely be built up rather
than cast to near final shape and just the bearing surfaces and such
machined smooth.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Sep 6, 10:26*am, "Robert Swinney" wrote:
Good answer, Don. *There is no specific superiority between steel and CI any more than there is
between other metals. *Each has its place within complex and highly variable sets of design
parameters. *In terms of evolution, CI became the dominant material of choice for machine tools at
the dawn of the Industrial age. *Now, composites of iron, steel and others are economically feasible
but CI is still the machine tool choice considering all factors.

In the 70's I assembled custom machinery for the auto industry. When
they needed a difficult shape like a large rotating table they had it
cast in aluminum, but I never saw any iron castings. All framework was
welded from steel with any linear bearings bolted on, ie Thompson rod.
It wasn't for lack of foundries either, NH had Hitchiner, Pine Tree
Castings and plenty of small specialty ones.

jsw

On Sun, 05 Sep 2010 11:13:04 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote:

I have been bouncing around an idea for a specialty screw less vise. I've
got the shape and design figured out, and I think I have the machine
processes to make it figured out. I'm still struggling with the exact best
way to drill the pin holes, but that's not my hold up. I'm trying to
decided what material to make it out of. The cheap steel that the Harbor
freight vises are cast from machines nicely, but I don't know what it is,
and I'm not sure it would be rigid enough. I could do it with aluminum
easily enough, but I really don't think that would work very well. If the
design works I can see myself using this vise for many many years, and even
custom designing it for other machines. It doesn't have to withstand tons
of holding force, but it should be able to handle upto 100 lbs of holding
force with minimal distortion. I know, make it heavy, but the idea is
really geared towards mini machines, so heavy really is not an option. I
suspect a 75 lb vise would cause or contribute to motor stalling on some of
these machines.

A36 steel for the fundamental structure, and hardened O1 for the jaw
inserts.

Have Fun!
Rich

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 05 Sep 2010 11:13:04 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote:

I have been bouncing around an idea for a specialty screw less vise.
I've
got the shape and design figured out, and I think I have the machine
processes to make it figured out. I'm still struggling with the exact
best
way to drill the pin holes, but that's not my hold up. I'm trying to
decided what material to make it out of. The cheap steel that the Harbor
freight vises are cast from machines nicely, but I don't know what it is,
and I'm not sure it would be rigid enough. I could do it with aluminum
easily enough, but I really don't think that would work very well. If
the
design works I can see myself using this vise for many many years, and
even
custom designing it for other machines. It doesn't have to withstand
tons
of holding force, but it should be able to handle upto 100 lbs of holding
force with minimal distortion. I know, make it heavy, but the idea is
really geared towards mini machines, so heavy really is not an option. I
suspect a 75 lb vise would cause or contribute to motor stalling on some
of
these machines.

A36 steel for the fundamental structure, and hardened O1 for the jaw
inserts.

Have Fun!
Rich

Hmmm... I thought various tool steels to begin with, but weight is a killer
on mini machines.

On Wed, 08 Sep 2010 21:04:35 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Rich Grise" wrote in message
On Sun, 05 Sep 2010 11:13:04 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote:

I have been bouncing around an idea for a specialty screw less vise.
I've
got the shape and design figured out, and I think I have the machine
processes to make it figured out. I'm still struggling with the exact
best
way to drill the pin holes, but that's not my hold up. I'm trying to
decided what material to make it out of. The cheap steel that the Harbor
freight vises are cast from machines nicely, but I don't know what it is,
and I'm not sure it would be rigid enough. I could do it with aluminum
easily enough, but I really don't think that would work very well. If
the
design works I can see myself using this vise for many many years, and
even
custom designing it for other machines. It doesn't have to withstand
tons
of holding force, but it should be able to handle upto 100 lbs of holding
force with minimal distortion. I know, make it heavy, but the idea is
really geared towards mini machines, so heavy really is not an option. I
suspect a 75 lb vise would cause or contribute to motor stalling on some
of
these machines.

A36 steel for the fundamental structure, and hardened O1 for the jaw
inserts.

Hmmm... I thought various tool steels to begin with, but weight is a killer
on mini machines.

Composite? ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 08 Sep 2010 21:04:35 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Rich Grise" wrote in message
On Sun, 05 Sep 2010 11:13:04 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote:

I have been bouncing around an idea for a specialty screw less vise.
I've
got the shape and design figured out, and I think I have the machine
processes to make it figured out. I'm still struggling with the exact
best
way to drill the pin holes, but that's not my hold up. I'm trying to
decided what material to make it out of. The cheap steel that the
Harbor
freight vises are cast from machines nicely, but I don't know what it
is,
and I'm not sure it would be rigid enough. I could do it with aluminum
easily enough, but I really don't think that would work very well. If
the
design works I can see myself using this vise for many many years, and
even
custom designing it for other machines. It doesn't have to withstand
tons
of holding force, but it should be able to handle upto 100 lbs of
holding
force with minimal distortion. I know, make it heavy, but the idea is
really geared towards mini machines, so heavy really is not an option.
I
suspect a 75 lb vise would cause or contribute to motor stalling on
some
of
these machines.

A36 steel for the fundamental structure, and hardened O1 for the jaw
inserts.

Hmmm... I thought various tool steels to begin with, but weight is a
killer
on mini machines.

Composite? ;-)

Titanium? ;^)