With the original Bosch drives, my 145v motors, etc, the mill was
capable of 200 IPM rapids. Right now I have a 70v power supply with
30A8 drives and the top speed is 60-70 IPM.

My question is how much am I losing, in reality, but having faster top
speed. My feeling is not much, but I want to know.

This is not an entirely idle question, as I could install drives that
match motor voltage (30A20AC or 25A20AC or some such). They would use
120 VAC as power source.

So, would I see any improvement in anything valuable with higher top
speed or no?

i

On 2010-08-20, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus11290 wrote:
With the original Bosch drives, my 145v motors, etc, the mill was
capable of 200 IPM rapids. Right now I have a 70v power supply with
30A8 drives and the top speed is 60-70 IPM.

My question is how much am I losing, in reality, but having faster top
speed. My feeling is not much, but I want to know.

I have artificially limited the speed of my machine to 72 IPM (60 IPM
plus a little leeway) to avoid expensive oopses! The machine and servo
drives will do 120 IPM, but I had a few accidents in the early days with
it, and thought it might be best to "slow down and save lives" so to speak.
This is not an entirely idle question, as I could install drives that
match motor voltage (30A20AC or 25A20AC or some such). They would use
120 VAC as power source.

So, would I see any improvement in anything valuable with higher top
speed or no?
Probably not. All you'd do is reduce non-cutting time by a few seconds.
Unless you are making long traverses across the machine's working cube,
it just won't buy much. Increasing acceleration makes it possible to
make sharper corners, that is an actual advantage. But, you are highly
unlikely to ever cut anything above 60 IPM, so it could only make much
difference in production runs.

Jon, I think the same about it. A lot of safety is in my ability to
stop the mill quickly enough.

i

Ignoramus11290 wrote:
With the original Bosch drives, my 145v motors, etc, the mill was
capable of 200 IPM rapids. Right now I have a 70v power supply with
30A8 drives and the top speed is 60-70 IPM.

My question is how much am I losing, in reality, but having faster top
speed. My feeling is not much, but I want to know.

I have artificially limited the speed of my machine to 72 IPM (60 IPM
plus a little leeway) to avoid expensive oopses! The machine and servo
drives will do 120 IPM, but I had a few accidents in the early days with
it, and thought it might be best to "slow down and save lives" so to speak.
This is not an entirely idle question, as I could install drives that
match motor voltage (30A20AC or 25A20AC or some such). They would use
120 VAC as power source.

So, would I see any improvement in anything valuable with higher top
speed or no?
Probably not. All you'd do is reduce non-cutting time by a few seconds.
Unless you are making long traverses across the machine's working cube,
it just won't buy much. Increasing acceleration makes it possible to
make sharper corners, that is an actual advantage. But, you are highly
unlikely to ever cut anything above 60 IPM, so it could only make much
difference in production runs.

Jon

On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 17:31:29 -0500, Ignoramus11290
wrote:

On 2010-08-20, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus11290 wrote:
With the original Bosch drives, my 145v motors, etc, the mill was
capable of 200 IPM rapids. Right now I have a 70v power supply with
30A8 drives and the top speed is 60-70 IPM.

My question is how much am I losing, in reality, but having faster top
speed. My feeling is not much, but I want to know.

I have artificially limited the speed of my machine to 72 IPM (60 IPM
plus a little leeway) to avoid expensive oopses! The machine and servo
drives will do 120 IPM, but I had a few accidents in the early days with
it, and thought it might be best to "slow down and save lives" so to speak.
This is not an entirely idle question, as I could install drives that
match motor voltage (30A20AC or 25A20AC or some such). They would use
120 VAC as power source.

So, would I see any improvement in anything valuable with higher top
speed or no?
Probably not. All you'd do is reduce non-cutting time by a few seconds.
Unless you are making long traverses across the machine's working cube,
it just won't buy much. Increasing acceleration makes it possible to
make sharper corners, that is an actual advantage. But, you are highly
unlikely to ever cut anything above 60 IPM, so it could only make much
difference in production runs.

Jon, I think the same about it. A lot of safety is in my ability to
stop the mill quickly enough.

i

FWIW, I set mine at 75 ipm max. so it takes 20 seconds to move the
table end to end.

Karl

Ignoramus11290 wrote:

With the original Bosch drives, my 145v motors, etc, the mill was
capable of 200 IPM rapids. Right now I have a 70v power supply with
30A8 drives and the top speed is 60-70 IPM.

My question is how much am I losing, in reality, but having faster top
speed. My feeling is not much, but I want to know.

This is not an entirely idle question, as I could install drives that
match motor voltage (30A20AC or 25A20AC or some such). They would use
120 VAC as power source.

So, would I see any improvement in anything valuable with higher top
speed or no?

Iggy, you are not running tested production programs making large lots of parts.

Speaking as a guy that has put all too many wrecks (crashes, also known as 'bumps' by the
green button pushers) I can say that going faster in rapid is counter productive
considering your level of learning (not a slam) and your applications.

I'm not a big fan of blink of an eye crashes. We have engineers that have pushed machines
to the edge but when it takes days or longer to get parts and then more time to repair the
machine, how much did was really gained out if this? Seconds mean nothing in this
context. Not to mention accelerated wear.

The pay dirt is reducing cutting time and tooling cost. There is where the real
productivity increases lay.

JMHO,

Wes

"Ignoramus11290" wrote in message
...
With the original Bosch drives, my 145v motors, etc, the mill was
capable of 200 IPM rapids. Right now I have a 70v power supply with
30A8 drives and the top speed is 60-70 IPM.

My question is how much am I losing, in reality, but having faster top
speed. My feeling is not much, but I want to know.

This is not an entirely idle question, as I could install drives that
match motor voltage (30A20AC or 25A20AC or some such). They would use
120 VAC as power source.

So, would I see any improvement in anything valuable with higher top
speed or no?


I guess it depends on what you are doing. I suspect probably not. That
being said, if you are doing some really long programs ( I just did one that
took almost 2 days) rapid speed can make a difference of several hours. If
most of your jobs are only a few hours probably not at all. Not enough
savings to risk crashes as others have said.

HOWEVER, if you are making fifty of something with a small cutter out of
aluminum you might be cutting at that speed or higher... once you get your
high speed spindle all figured out. I was just doing some speeds and feeds
calculations today that were giving me (wishful thinking) suggested feed
rates of over 100 IPM using a max spindle speed for the calculation of 21000
RPM.

Seriously though 60 IPM is pretty darn fast for most of us. I can get that
speed on my Taig with the Gecko controller, but I backed it off to 52
(mathematical speed based on kernel speed that works really well with my PC)
and cut at 30 or less and I am thrilled with the performance.

On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 18:05:40 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Ignoramus11290" wrote in message
...
With the original Bosch drives, my 145v motors, etc, the mill was
capable of 200 IPM rapids. Right now I have a 70v power supply with
30A8 drives and the top speed is 60-70 IPM.

My question is how much am I losing, in reality, but having faster top
speed. My feeling is not much, but I want to know.

This is not an entirely idle question, as I could install drives that
match motor voltage (30A20AC or 25A20AC or some such). They would use
120 VAC as power source.

So, would I see any improvement in anything valuable with higher top
speed or no?


I guess it depends on what you are doing. I suspect probably not. That
being said, if you are doing some really long programs ( I just did one that
took almost 2 days) rapid speed can make a difference of several hours. If
most of your jobs are only a few hours probably not at all. Not enough
savings to risk crashes as others have said.

HOWEVER, if you are making fifty of something with a small cutter out of
aluminum you might be cutting at that speed or higher... once you get your
high speed spindle all figured out. I was just doing some speeds and feeds
calculations today that were giving me (wishful thinking) suggested feed
rates of over 100 IPM using a max spindle speed for the calculation of 21000
RPM.

Seriously though 60 IPM is pretty darn fast for most of us. I can get that
speed on my Taig with the Gecko controller, but I backed it off to 52
(mathematical speed based on kernel speed that works really well with my PC)
and cut at 30 or less and I am thrilled with the performance.

My OmniTurn lathes will cut at 300 ipm, but few materials allow that at
4000 rpm


Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On 2010-08-21, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 18:05:40 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

[ ... ]

Seriously though 60 IPM is pretty darn fast for most of us. I can get that
speed on my Taig with the Gecko controller, but I backed it off to 52
(mathematical speed based on kernel speed that works really well with my PC)
and cut at 30 or less and I am thrilled with the performance.

My OmniTurn lathes will cut at 300 ipm, but few materials allow that at
4000 rpm

Hmm ... that works out to 0.075" per revolution. Perhaps
cutting machinable wax -- if it won't blow up at 4000 RPM?

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 21 Aug 2010 04:40:38 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2010-08-21, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 18:05:40 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

[ ... ]

Seriously though 60 IPM is pretty darn fast for most of us. I can get that
speed on my Taig with the Gecko controller, but I backed it off to 52
(mathematical speed based on kernel speed that works really well with my PC)
and cut at 30 or less and I am thrilled with the performance.

My OmniTurn lathes will cut at 300 ipm, but few materials allow that at
4000 rpm

Hmm ... that works out to 0.075" per revolution. Perhaps
cutting machinable wax -- if it won't blow up at 4000 RPM?

Enjoy,
DoN.

Actually..Ive seen it done with cyrolac and delrin and I think...filled
nylon.

The boys were using a nice .50 half round Microcentric carbide cutter.

Wierdest thing Ive ever seen. BANG and the part was done. They claimed
that anything else..and tolerences went to **** because the parts tended
to spring. They were cutting pullies for rescue gear.

I nodded politey and backed out of the door, with my hand over my wallet
and the other one hovering above my backup......

Gunner



--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 17:08:52 -0500, Ignoramus11290
wrote:

With the original Bosch drives, my 145v motors, etc, the mill was
capable of 200 IPM rapids. Right now I have a 70v power supply with
30A8 drives and the top speed is 60-70 IPM.

My question is how much am I losing, in reality, but having faster top
speed. My feeling is not much, but I want to know.

This is not an entirely idle question, as I could install drives that
match motor voltage (30A20AC or 25A20AC or some such). They would use
120 VAC as power source.

So, would I see any improvement in anything valuable with higher top
speed or no?

I'm in beginners learning mode, too, but I see the factors as being

1) What are you cutting?
2) What tool are you using?
3) What precision do you need?
4) What finish are you looking for?
5) What quantity of product do you need, and in what time frame?
6) What is your machine capable of?

For a hobby machine, I'd think that 60-70ipm is a great top speed.
Some of the machines in the links folks have been posting are giving
20ipm cutting and 80ipm fast return rates.

--
We're all here because we're not all there.

On 2010-08-21, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 17:08:52 -0500, Ignoramus11290
wrote:

With the original Bosch drives, my 145v motors, etc, the mill was
capable of 200 IPM rapids. Right now I have a 70v power supply with
30A8 drives and the top speed is 60-70 IPM.

My question is how much am I losing, in reality, but having faster top
speed. My feeling is not much, but I want to know.

This is not an entirely idle question, as I could install drives that
match motor voltage (30A20AC or 25A20AC or some such). They would use
120 VAC as power source.

So, would I see any improvement in anything valuable with higher top
speed or no?

I'm in beginners learning mode, too, but I see the factors as being

1) What are you cutting?
2) What tool are you using?
3) What precision do you need?
4) What finish are you looking for?
5) What quantity of product do you need, and in what time frame?
6) What is your machine capable of?

For a hobby machine, I'd think that 60-70ipm is a great top speed.
Some of the machines in the links folks have been posting are giving
20ipm cutting and 80ipm fast return rates.


I am also learning, but I think that you are basically right. Those
top speeds are for guys making production runs.

i

"Ignoramus11290" wrote in message
...
With the original Bosch drives, my 145v motors, etc, the mill was
capable of 200 IPM rapids. Right now I have a 70v power supply with
30A8 drives and the top speed is 60-70 IPM.

My question is how much am I losing, in reality, but having faster top
speed. My feeling is not much, but I want to know.

This is not an entirely idle question, as I could install drives that
match motor voltage (30A20AC or 25A20AC or some such). They would use
120 VAC as power source.

So, would I see any improvement in anything valuable with higher top
speed or no?

It probably depends a lot on the type of job at hand, but for the stuff I do
the difference is pretty insignificant. I ran a tyical job through the
simulator on SprutCAM (my CAM program) which estimates run time and tried
rapid speeds of 65 ipm (my mill) and 400 ipm. The difference in run time
was less than 10%, AIR. If you have a sample design, I can run that through
the simulator and give you ballpark data.

"Ignoramus25139" wrote in message
...
On 2010-08-21, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 17:08:52 -0500, Ignoramus11290
wrote:

With the original Bosch drives, my 145v motors, etc, the mill was
capable of 200 IPM rapids. Right now I have a 70v power supply with
30A8 drives and the top speed is 60-70 IPM.

My question is how much am I losing, in reality, but having faster top
speed. My feeling is not much, but I want to know.

This is not an entirely idle question, as I could install drives that
match motor voltage (30A20AC or 25A20AC or some such). They would use
120 VAC as power source.

So, would I see any improvement in anything valuable with higher top
speed or no?

I'm in beginners learning mode, too, but I see the factors as being

1) What are you cutting?
2) What tool are you using?
3) What precision do you need?
4) What finish are you looking for?
5) What quantity of product do you need, and in what time frame?
6) What is your machine capable of?

For a hobby machine, I'd think that 60-70ipm is a great top speed.
Some of the machines in the links folks have been posting are giving
20ipm cutting and 80ipm fast return rates.


I am also learning, but I think that you are basically right. Those
top speeds are for guys making production runs.


And for mills with faster spindles and much higher spindle motor HP.
Download Bob Warfield's G-Wizard and check out how much HP is required for
various cuts. That can be pretty illuminating.

Mike

On 2010-08-21, Mike Henry wrote:

And for mills with faster spindles and much higher spindle motor HP.
Download Bob Warfield's G-Wizard and check out how much HP is required for
various cuts. That can be pretty illuminating.


Mike, I downloaded it and it runs, however, it says that I am not
authorized to use it.

I would really much prefer to write my own feeds and speeds
calculator. Both as a perl module (for everyone to write their own
programs) and a website calculator.

I have already started (yesterday or so) a metalworking section on
algebra.com.

http://www.algebra.com/algebra/homew...g/Solvers.html

I want to do a real speeds and feeds calculator, however.

I have looked up various references and they seem to contradict each
other.

i

On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 10:21:54 -0500, "Mike Henry"
wrote:


"Ignoramus11290" wrote in message
...
With the original Bosch drives, my 145v motors, etc, the mill was
capable of 200 IPM rapids. Right now I have a 70v power supply with
30A8 drives and the top speed is 60-70 IPM.

My question is how much am I losing, in reality, but having faster top
speed. My feeling is not much, but I want to know.

This is not an entirely idle question, as I could install drives that
match motor voltage (30A20AC or 25A20AC or some such). They would use
120 VAC as power source.

So, would I see any improvement in anything valuable with higher top
speed or no?

It probably depends a lot on the type of job at hand, but for the stuff I do
the difference is pretty insignificant. I ran a tyical job through the
simulator on SprutCAM (my CAM program) which estimates run time and tried
rapid speeds of 65 ipm (my mill) and 400 ipm. The difference in run time
was less than 10%, AIR. If you have a sample design, I can run that through
the simulator and give you ballpark data.

Most..not all..but most of the speed differences is in moving the tools
around, not in the cutting. Now when you get up to high hp and decent
rpms....thats where it starts making a difference.

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

On 2010-08-21, Gunner Asch wrote:
On 21 Aug 2010 04:40:38 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2010-08-21, Gunner Asch wrote:

[ ... ]

My OmniTurn lathes will cut at 300 ipm, but few materials allow that at
4000 rpm

Hmm ... that works out to 0.075" per revolution. Perhaps
cutting machinable wax -- if it won't blow up at 4000 RPM?

Enjoy,
DoN.

Actually..Ive seen it done with cyrolac and delrin and I think...filled
nylon.

The boys were using a nice .50 half round Microcentric carbide cutter.

Wierdest thing Ive ever seen. BANG and the part was done. They claimed
that anything else..and tolerences went to **** because the parts tended
to spring. They were cutting pullies for rescue gear.

:-)

I've made a pair of Delrin pullies -- black, because I made them
to be used out exposed to the sun's UV full time -- but the tolerances
were not that critical. I happened to have an insert cutter with round
inserts on the lathe which worked out well. These were for the setup to
allow me to lay down the pole for my weather station from the ground
when I needed to change batteries (RF link to the station).

Everything is either Delrin or PVC except for a few setscrews so
there is not a path to make it attractive to lightning.

In the past week we got a rather extreme amount of rain. Take
a look at:

http://www.d-and-d.com/Weather/weather-report-classic.html

and scroll down to the bottom where the hourly rainfall shows up for the
past seven days. Actually got about 5.45" of rain in the middle of the
night (Perhaps around 3:00 AM or so -- maybe as late as 5:00 AM.
Totally overflowed the "test tube" gauges up a ways. I had to spend
some time playing with the scale factor before I could see how much rain
actually arrived. :-)

I nodded politey and backed out of the door, with my hand over my wallet
and the other one hovering above my backup......

Perhaps they would like to use the backup for putting the hole
through the pulleys? :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"Ignoramus25139" wrote in message
...
On 2010-08-21, Mike Henry wrote:

And for mills with faster spindles and much higher spindle motor HP.
Download Bob Warfield's G-Wizard and check out how much HP is required
for
various cuts. That can be pretty illuminating.


Mike, I downloaded it and it runs, however, it says that I am not
authorized to use it.

I would really much prefer to write my own feeds and speeds
calculator. Both as a perl module (for everyone to write their own
programs) and a website calculator.

I have already started (yesterday or so) a metalworking section on
algebra.com.

http://www.algebra.com/algebra/homew...g/Solvers.html

I want to do a real speeds and feeds calculator, however.

I have looked up various references and they seem to contradict each
other.

G-Wizard was free while in Beta; maybe it's released now and no longer free.
I think that there was also an email you had to answer (or click on a
contained link) to "authorize" it. There's also ME Consultant Professional,
which I use. The latter can have user entries for materials, feeds, and
speeds but G-Wizard probably does as well. ME Pro is Windows only, though.

It's a complex project if you try to do it right and as you say, different
sources have different data.

Gunner Asch wrote:

Cool. Here are some 10 meter/min feed rates.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gzjw...eature=related


NICE crash handling!!

Gunner


Would have liked seeing crash handling with something a bit harder than aluminum.

Wes