OK guys.. Hopefully someone can help me out here..

We have these 4140 plates for a customer. On the print they call out for
..007 - .009 thick chrome on one face finished. So we try to get the
plater to put .004-.005 over so we can grind them flat. We tried having
them only putting .001-.002 over, but that never worked out well.
The plater we use is having a really hard time getting a consistent
buildup all over the plates.. And recently we are seeing a crap load of
bubbles, and some of the plates are actually flaking on the edges. So,
here is two questions to the more knowledgeable than I.

1) Is there any other type of coating that is comparable or better than
chrome, that we could suggest to our customer, that would save the time
and anguish of us grinding, finding out the chrome is bad, and sending
the plates back to get more added?

2) If it's the chrome plater that is actually at fault, does anyone know
of a good plater that is in Florida, preferably near central, but not
required.. We can UPS the plates. I'll even send them out of state if
need be.. Anything is better than the situation that we are in now.

"tnik" wrote in message
...
OK guys.. Hopefully someone can help me out here..

We have these 4140 plates for a customer. On the print they call out for
.007 - .009 thick chrome on one face finished. So we try to get the plater
to put .004-.005 over so we can grind them flat. We tried having them only
putting .001-.002 over, but that never worked out well.
The plater we use is having a really hard time getting a consistent
buildup all over the plates.. And recently we are seeing a crap load of
bubbles, and some of the plates are actually flaking on the edges. So,
here is two questions to the more knowledgeable than I.

1) Is there any other type of coating that is comparable or better than
chrome, that we could suggest to our customer, that would save the time
and anguish of us grinding, finding out the chrome is bad, and sending the
plates back to get more added?

2) If it's the chrome plater that is actually at fault, does anyone know
of a good plater that is in Florida, preferably near central, but not
required.. We can UPS the plates. I'll even send them out of state if need
be.. Anything is better than the situation that we are in now.

Are you sure your customer is not missing a zero? Hard chrome coatings are
typically 1/10 that thickness. As plating gets thicker internal stresses
buiuld up and can cause it to delaminate. Although, I am searching the web
and see that there is a process called "hard chrome build up" where some
vendors advertise up to 1000 microns (.039")

You might want to try lapping instead of grinding. It is much easier to
control on very thin coatings. Also makes flatter and finer finishes than
grinding.

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 16:43:21 -0400, tnik
wrote:

OK guys.. Hopefully someone can help me out here..

We have these 4140 plates for a customer. On the print they call out for
.007 - .009 thick chrome on one face finished. So we try to get the
plater to put .004-.005 over so we can grind them flat. We tried having
them only putting .001-.002 over, but that never worked out well.
The plater we use is having a really hard time getting a consistent
buildup all over the plates.. And recently we are seeing a crap load of
bubbles, and some of the plates are actually flaking on the edges. So,
here is two questions to the more knowledgeable than I.

1) Is there any other type of coating that is comparable or better than
chrome, that we could suggest to our customer, that would save the time
and anguish of us grinding, finding out the chrome is bad, and sending
the plates back to get more added?

2) If it's the chrome plater that is actually at fault, does anyone know
of a good plater that is in Florida, preferably near central, but not
required.. We can UPS the plates. I'll even send them out of state if
need be.. Anything is better than the situation that we are in now.
==========
What is the function of the chrome plate? Depending on the
function, you might consider TiN coating. Very wear
resistant and you should not need to grind at all.

for general info see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_nitride

for some suppliers at random see
http://www.brycoat.com/
http://brycoat.com/pvd-tin.html
http://www.swiss-tekcoatings.com/tin...-coatings.html
http://www.ionic-tech.com/?gclid=CJP...Fc9N5QodFCf7ZQ

many more on web.
-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On Aug 18, 2:43*pm, tnik wrote:
OK guys.. Hopefully someone can help me out here..

We have these 4140 plates for a customer. On the print they call out for
.007 - .009 thick chrome on one face finished. So we try to get the
plater to put .004-.005 over so we can grind them flat. We tried having
them only putting .001-.002 over, but that never worked out well.
The plater we use is having a really hard time getting a consistent
buildup all over the plates.. And recently we are seeing a crap load of
bubbles, and some of the plates are actually flaking on the edges. So,
here is two questions to the more knowledgeable than I.

1) Is there any other type of coating that is comparable or better than
chrome, that we could suggest to our customer, that would save the time
and anguish of us grinding, finding out the chrome is bad, and sending
the plates back to get more added?

2) If it's the chrome plater that is actually at fault, does anyone know
of a good plater that is in Florida, preferably near central, but not
required.. We can UPS the plates. I'll even send them out of state if
need be.. Anything is better than the situation that we are in now.

Sounds like bad design. Electroplating will be hard to get even
coating at that thickness, field strength at corners causes extra
build up. It's waaay too thick, like the other poster said, hard
chrome is used in THIN applications. If the customer needs a hard
face, how about one of the flame-sprayed coatings, or TiN? Bubbles in
plating is a process control problem and chrome doesn't stick very
well to steel without an intermediate layer or two, usually copper and
nickel. Electroless nickel would stick well, if it's just a
decorative thing. It all comes down to what the hard chrome is
supposed to do.

Stan

On 8/19/2010 8:51 AM, wrote:
On Aug 18, 2:43 pm, wrote:
OK guys.. Hopefully someone can help me out here..

We have these 4140 plates for a customer. On the print they call out for
.007 - .009 thick chrome on one face finished. So we try to get the
plater to put .004-.005 over so we can grind them flat. We tried having
them only putting .001-.002 over, but that never worked out well.
The plater we use is having a really hard time getting a consistent
buildup all over the plates.. And recently we are seeing a crap load of
bubbles, and some of the plates are actually flaking on the edges. So,
here is two questions to the more knowledgeable than I.

1) Is there any other type of coating that is comparable or better than
chrome, that we could suggest to our customer, that would save the time
and anguish of us grinding, finding out the chrome is bad, and sending
the plates back to get more added?

2) If it's the chrome plater that is actually at fault, does anyone know
of a good plater that is in Florida, preferably near central, but not
required.. We can UPS the plates. I'll even send them out of state if
need be.. Anything is better than the situation that we are in now.

Sounds like bad design. Electroplating will be hard to get even
coating at that thickness, field strength at corners causes extra
build up. It's waaay too thick, like the other poster said, hard
chrome is used in THIN applications. If the customer needs a hard
face, how about one of the flame-sprayed coatings, or TiN? Bubbles in
plating is a process control problem and chrome doesn't stick very
well to steel without an intermediate layer or two, usually copper and
nickel. Electroless nickel would stick well, if it's just a
decorative thing. It all comes down to what the hard chrome is
supposed to do.

Stan

The chrome is there for wearing against wood in a big mulcher. I've
talked to a couple of people today, and with your guys suggestions I
have a small arsenal that I can go to the customer and try to do
something different.

On Aug 19, 9:04*am, tnik wrote:
On 8/19/2010 8:51 AM, wrote:





On Aug 18, 2:43 pm, *wrote:
OK guys.. Hopefully someone can help me out here..

We have these 4140 plates for a customer. On the print they call out for
.007 - .009 thick chrome on one face finished. So we try to get the
plater to put .004-.005 over so we can grind them flat. We tried having
them only putting .001-.002 over, but that never worked out well.
The plater we use is having a really hard time getting a consistent
buildup all over the plates.. And recently we are seeing a crap load of
bubbles, and some of the plates are actually flaking on the edges. So,
here is two questions to the more knowledgeable than I.

1) Is there any other type of coating that is comparable or better than
chrome, that we could suggest to our customer, that would save the time
and anguish of us grinding, finding out the chrome is bad, and sending
the plates back to get more added?

2) If it's the chrome plater that is actually at fault, does anyone know
of a good plater that is in Florida, preferably near central, but not
required.. We can UPS the plates. I'll even send them out of state if
need be.. Anything is better than the situation that we are in now.

Sounds like bad design. *Electroplating will be hard to get even
coating at that thickness, field strength at corners causes extra
build up. *It's waaay too thick, like the other poster said, hard
chrome is used in THIN applications. *If the customer needs a hard
face, how about one of the flame-sprayed coatings, or TiN? *Bubbles in
plating is a process control problem and chrome doesn't stick very
well to steel without an intermediate layer or two, usually copper and
nickel. *Electroless nickel would stick well, if it's just a
decorative thing. *It all comes down to what the hard chrome is
supposed to do.

Stan

The chrome is there for wearing against wood in a big mulcher. I've
talked to a couple of people today, and with your guys suggestions I
have a small arsenal that I can go to the customer and try to do
something different.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hardening the 4140 isn't enough? Wear plates should be readily
changeable, anyway. Might be a more abrasion resistant alloy would
work better(and cheaper). Plating these days isn't cheap.

Stan

On Aug 19, 11:50*am, wrote:
On Aug 19, 9:04*am, tnik wrote:





On 8/19/2010 8:51 AM, wrote:

On Aug 18, 2:43 pm, *wrote:
OK guys.. Hopefully someone can help me out here..

We have these 4140 plates for a customer. On the print they call out for
.007 - .009 thick chrome on one face finished. So we try to get the
plater to put .004-.005 over so we can grind them flat. We tried having
them only putting .001-.002 over, but that never worked out well.
The plater we use is having a really hard time getting a consistent
buildup all over the plates.. And recently we are seeing a crap load of
bubbles, and some of the plates are actually flaking on the edges. So,
here is two questions to the more knowledgeable than I.

1) Is there any other type of coating that is comparable or better than
chrome, that we could suggest to our customer, that would save the time
and anguish of us grinding, finding out the chrome is bad, and sending
the plates back to get more added?

2) If it's the chrome plater that is actually at fault, does anyone know
of a good plater that is in Florida, preferably near central, but not
required.. We can UPS the plates. I'll even send them out of state if
need be.. Anything is better than the situation that we are in now.

Sounds like bad design. *Electroplating will be hard to get even
coating at that thickness, field strength at corners causes extra
build up. *It's waaay too thick, like the other poster said, hard
chrome is used in THIN applications. *If the customer needs a hard
face, how about one of the flame-sprayed coatings, or TiN? *Bubbles in
plating is a process control problem and chrome doesn't stick very
well to steel without an intermediate layer or two, usually copper and
nickel. *Electroless nickel would stick well, if it's just a
decorative thing. *It all comes down to what the hard chrome is
supposed to do.

Stan

The chrome is there for wearing against wood in a big mulcher. I've
talked to a couple of people today, and with your guys suggestions I
have a small arsenal that I can go to the customer and try to do
something different.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hardening the 4140 isn't enough? *Wear plates should be readily
changeable, anyway. *Might be a more abrasion resistant alloy would
work better(and cheaper). *Plating these days isn't cheap.

Stan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just thought of another thing, with regard to bubbles. Are these
plates getting any sort of post-process heat treatment to remove
hydrogen? If not, that's a BIG problem. Look up "hydrogen
embrittlement". The thicker the plating, the more problems you get
with it, too. All those freed protons in the plating bath go
somewhere and mostly right into the workpiece.

Stan

On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 10:50:32 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Aug 19, 9:04*am, tnik wrote:
On 8/19/2010 8:51 AM, wrote:





On Aug 18, 2:43 pm, *wrote:
OK guys.. Hopefully someone can help me out here..

We have these 4140 plates for a customer. On the print they call out for
.007 - .009 thick chrome on one face finished. So we try to get the
plater to put .004-.005 over so we can grind them flat. We tried having
them only putting .001-.002 over, but that never worked out well.
The plater we use is having a really hard time getting a consistent
buildup all over the plates.. And recently we are seeing a crap load of
bubbles, and some of the plates are actually flaking on the edges. So,
here is two questions to the more knowledgeable than I.

1) Is there any other type of coating that is comparable or better than
chrome, that we could suggest to our customer, that would save the time
and anguish of us grinding, finding out the chrome is bad, and sending
the plates back to get more added?

2) If it's the chrome plater that is actually at fault, does anyone know
of a good plater that is in Florida, preferably near central, but not
required.. We can UPS the plates. I'll even send them out of state if
need be.. Anything is better than the situation that we are in now.

Sounds like bad design. *Electroplating will be hard to get even
coating at that thickness, field strength at corners causes extra
build up. *It's waaay too thick, like the other poster said, hard
chrome is used in THIN applications. *If the customer needs a hard
face, how about one of the flame-sprayed coatings, or TiN? *Bubbles in
plating is a process control problem and chrome doesn't stick very
well to steel without an intermediate layer or two, usually copper and
nickel. *Electroless nickel would stick well, if it's just a
decorative thing. *It all comes down to what the hard chrome is
supposed to do.

Stan

The chrome is there for wearing against wood in a big mulcher. I've
talked to a couple of people today, and with your guys suggestions I
have a small arsenal that I can go to the customer and try to do
something different.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hardening the 4140 isn't enough? Wear plates should be readily
changeable, anyway. Might be a more abrasion resistant alloy would
work better(and cheaper). Plating these days isn't cheap.

Stan

If you guys need Wear Plates...get a hold of Martin Fishburn here on RCM
and see what he can get T1 and other armor steel for.

Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost