I have never been able to get fishscale looking welds with mig or
stick. Ny technique is to basically point the gun or stick at the
joint, anddo counterclockwise circles repeatedly.

Also, I have a terrible time getting 7018 started and runnign right. I
have alot better time with 6011. ANy advice?

stryped wrote:
I have never been able to get fishscale looking welds with mig or
stick. Ny technique is to basically point the gun or stick at the
joint, anddo counterclockwise circles repeatedly.

Also, I have a terrible time getting 7018 started and runnign right. I
have alot better time with 6011. ANy advice?

Hire a real weldor .

--
Snag
"90 FLHTCU "Strider"
'39 WLDD "PopCycle"
BS 132/SENS/DOF

On Jun 14, 10:51*am, "Snag" wrote:
stryped wrote:
I have never been able to get fishscale looking welds with mig or
stick. Ny technique is to basically point the gun or stick at the
joint, anddo counterclockwise circles repeatedly.

Also, I have a terrible time getting 7018 started and runnign right. I
have alot better time with 6011. ANy advice?

Hire a real weldor .

--
Snag
"90 FLHTCU "Strider"
'39 WLDD "PopCycle"
BS 132/SENS/DOF

I am trying to learn to be a "real welder"

--Instead of circles make crescent arcs back and forth; that's what
I've been taught anyway. The trick is to avoid having the heat follow a path
that crosses where it's already been.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Didja see my stuff
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : at 2010 Maker Faire??
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

"stryped" wrote in message
...
I have never been able to get fishscale looking welds with mig or
stick. Ny technique is to basically point the gun or stick at the
joint, anddo counterclockwise circles repeatedly.

Also, I have a terrible time getting 7018 started and runnign right. I
have alot better time with 6011. ANy advice?

You have received some good advice here to find someone who knows how, and
can SHOW you in a short time. "Stacked dimes" welds are over rated. They
are pretty, but, as the rod has to be whipped in and out of the pool, fusion
and penetration suffers.

With each joint, there are many variables ...... horizontal, vertical,
angle, how strong does it have to be, how thick is the metal, lots of
variables so it is tough to give you a one size fits all answer.

With a lot of my MIG, I don't do a lot of movement on thin beads. I like to
push the wire, and have an angle that gives a larger puddle that I can push
along, and up on to both pieces. When butt welding some pieces, and doing
pieces that are going go be visible, I like to do a series of spot welds, so
it looks like TIG, and only has to be hit with an electric wire brush.

Most of the time, if you are doing a wide enough pass, it is good to use a
weave instead of a circular motion, pausing at the ends of the W's or C's to
melt the parent metal for good penetration and strength. Just don't stay
too long, or your puddle will fall, as with 7018. Or you will burn through.

Ah, 7018. As Iggy can attest, it is frustrating at first. The key to 7018
is a short arc, trying never to whip out of the puddle, as you can commonly
do with 6010 and 6011 and come right back to it. 7018 is almost a submerged
arc, as you want to keep the point of your rod under the slag cover. To get
started on 7018, get some thick steel, crank up the heat to the max stated
for the rod, and weld in the flat position. At first, just make straight
lines, with a slow STEADY forward movement and no side to side. Pause when
you first start to get a puddle, then slowly and steadily move in a straight
line, with the goal to keep the size of the puddle the same, and when it is
reached, to slowly move ahead in one steady nonstop fluid motion. No in and
out of the puddle. Steadiness is the key, as it is easy to break the arc,
and then you have to clean it off, start again ahead of the weld, and bring
your puddle back to the end of the previous one.

As stated, someone can show you all this in a session, whereas thousands of
words here might not convey the "aha" moments.

Good luck. If you can weld with 7018, you get to say you know how to weld.
When you can run it vertical uphill, you get to brag a little. g

Steve

Visit my site at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On Jun 14, 12:00*pm, stryped wrote:
...

I am trying to learn to be a "real welder"

I took night classes at the voc-tech. Welding is a very hands-on skill
probably best learned from an expert who can correct your mistakes.

jsw

On 06/14/2010 09:00 AM, stryped wrote:
On Jun 14, 10:51 am, wrote:
stryped wrote:
I have never been able to get fishscale looking welds with mig or
stick. Ny technique is to basically point the gun or stick at the
joint, anddo counterclockwise circles repeatedly.

Also, I have a terrible time getting 7018 started and runnign right. I
have alot better time with 6011. ANy advice?

Hire a real weldor .

--
Snag
"90 FLHTCU "Strider"
'39 WLDD "PopCycle"
BS 132/SENS/DOF

I am trying to learn to be a "real welder"

Take some real welding classes, then, or find a real welder to tutor
you. There's a lot of welding that you can learn by doing, but there's
a lot more that you learn by watching an expert, or doing while the
expert looks over your shoulder and comments.

If you have a community college system where you live, take advantage of
it. You won't be sorry, except for the desire for better equipment at home.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

stryped wrote:
I have never been able to get fishscale looking welds with mig or
stick. Ny technique is to basically point the gun or stick at the
joint, anddo counterclockwise circles repeatedly.

Also, I have a terrible time getting 7018 started and runnign right. I
have alot better time with 6011. ANy advice?

Get some 6013 electrode; it is one of the easiest rods to run. I still
can't run 6011 worth beans, but I can sometimes make a tolerable weld with
the 6013. If you really want to use 7018, get the Lincoln 7018AC rod, it is
a little easier to start/restart that regular 7018.

This all assumes you have a halfway decent welder, AKA not one that runs off
of 120VAC.

Jon

On Jun 14, 5:21*pm, Jim Wilkins wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:

If you have a community college system where you live, take advantage
of
it. *You won't be sorry, except for the desire for better equipment at
home.

HA!
I brought my own machines to class. Theirs were much better but mine
still worked.

On Jun 14, 1:00*pm, "SteveB" wrote:

You have received some good advice here to find someone who knows how, and
can SHOW you in a short time. *"Stacked dimes" welds are over rated. *They
are pretty, but, as the rod has to be whipped in and out of the pool, fusion
and penetration suffers.

After learning how to weld them I tried it with solder, on the RF
filter cans for a satellite terminal. There wasn't much difference in
technique and results, though I could cheat and lift the iron out of
the pool. Maybe solder is a good reuseable substitute to practiced on.

...

Ah, 7018. *As Iggy can attest, it is frustrating at first. *...
As stated, someone can show you all this in a session, whereas thousands of
words here might not convey the "aha" moments....
Steve

I learned 7018 from an expert, and it went well right from the start.
The highly stressed and oil-tight tubular support frame for my
hydraulic bucket loader was the first project.

jsw

One thing I noticed.....

My dad just bought a new gooseneck trailer. Looking at the welds, they
were uggly! No fishscales and irregular welds everywhere. I guess a
weld does nto need to be pretty to be strong.

One thing I wanted to ask. Your comment on moisture and 7018 got me
thinking. I dont have an oven to put my electrodes in. They are in one
of those screw on tubes you buy from the store. Could I by a cheap
toaster oven. ( I think that is what they are called). nd bake them in
that? It would take up a minimal amount of room. Can you make them
more than once?

"stryped" wrote One thing I noticed.....

My dad just bought a new gooseneck trailer. Looking at the welds, they
were uggly! No fishscales and irregular welds everywhere. I guess a
weld does nto need to be pretty to be strong.

One thing I wanted to ask. Your comment on moisture and 7018 got me
thinking. I dont have an oven to put my electrodes in. They are in one
of those screw on tubes you buy from the store. Could I by a cheap
toaster oven. ( I think that is what they are called). nd bake them in
that? It would take up a minimal amount of room. Can you make them
more than once?

I went to buy a small 10 x 12 trailer, and had to look at a dozen before I
found one that had acceptable welding. And it had two missing welds. The
production shops of today just push them out, but I don't understand it. A
good weld takes just as long as a bad one. I think that when anyone gets to
welding good, they leave a production shop and get a better job.

Make yourself a rod oven. One of those dead little tiny dorm fridges, about
20" cubical is good. Something that seals good. Gut it except for the
insulation. Put a light bulb in it for heat. It's all you need. Other
things can be utilized, or you can buy a $1,000 rod oven, but you can find a
derelict tiny fridge, and have enough left over for a used shop fridge, some
beer, and a few months of cable from one of those tittie channels.

Steve

Visit my site at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

All errors, brain farts, misspelled words intentional because this computer
is set to Spelchek French, and I can't get it to do any different.

Rod ovens are not that expensive if you look for used ones. I bought
my first oven (10 lbs) for $20. It served me well, but could not hold
enough rod. I recently bought a 50 lbs Keen KT-50 rod oven for just
$75, brand new.

i

On Jun 15, 10:14*am, "SteveB" wrote:
"stryped" wrote One thing I noticed.....

My dad just bought a new gooseneck trailer. Looking at the welds, they
were uggly! No fishscales and irregular welds everywhere. I guess a
weld does nto need to be pretty to be strong.

One thing I wanted to ask. Your comment on moisture and 7018 got me
thinking. I dont have an oven to put my electrodes in. They are in one
of those screw on tubes you buy from the store. Could I by a cheap
toaster oven. ( I think that is what they are called). nd bake them in
that? It would take up a minimal amount of room. Can you make them
more than once?

I went to buy a small 10 x 12 trailer, and had to look at a dozen before I
found one that had acceptable welding. *And it had two missing welds. *The
production shops of today just push them out, but I don't understand it. *A
good weld takes just as long as a bad one. *I think that when anyone gets to
welding good, they leave a production shop and get a better job.

Make yourself a rod oven. *One of those dead little tiny dorm fridges, about
20" cubical is good. *Something that seals good. *Gut it except for the
insulation. *Put a light bulb in it for heat. *It's all you need. *Other
things can be utilized, or you can buy a $1,000 rod oven, but you can find a
derelict tiny fridge, and have enough left over for a used shop fridge, some
beer, and a few months of cable from one of those tittie channels.

Steve

Visit my site athttp://cabgbypasssurgery.com

All errors, brain farts, misspelled words intentional because this computer
is set to Spelchek French, and I can't get it to do any different.

Is that safe to leave unattended in a detached building?

Also this will not "fix" a rod with moisture will it? I thought the
temp had to get to 500 degrees or so?

On Jun 15, 11:21*am, Ignoramus3037
wrote:
Rod ovens are not that expensive if you look for used ones. I bought
my first oven (10 lbs) for $20. It served me well, but could not hold
enough rod. I recently bought a 50 lbs Keen KT-50 rod oven for just
$75, brand new.

i

Do these draw alot of power? WIll it fix rods with mositure in them?
If I may ask where did you get it?

On Jun 15, 12:54*pm, stryped wrote:
On Jun 15, 11:21*am, Ignoramus3037
wrote:

Rod ovens are not that expensive if you look for used ones. I bought
my first oven (10 lbs) for $20. It served me well, but could not hold
enough rod. I recently bought a 50 lbs Keen KT-50 rod oven for just
$75, brand new.

i

Do these draw alot of power? WIll it fix rods with mositure in them?
If I may ask where did you get it?

Lincoln Electric's website has a great page regarding drying various
types of Stick Electrode.

The URL is:
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowl...nt/storing.asp

7018 rod required well above the temperatures found in most rod
storage ovens.

_kevin

On Jun 15, 2:31*pm, karchiba wrote:
On Jun 15, 12:54*pm, stryped wrote:

On Jun 15, 11:21*am, Ignoramus3037
wrote:

Rod ovens are not that expensive if you look for used ones. I bought
my first oven (10 lbs) for $20. It served me well, but could not hold
enough rod. I recently bought a 50 lbs Keen KT-50 rod oven for just
$75, brand new.

i

Do these draw alot of power? WIll it fix rods with mositure in them?
If I may ask where did you get it?

Lincoln Electric's website has a great page regarding drying various
types of Stick Electrode.

The URL is:http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowl...nt/storing.asp

7018 rod required well above the temperatures found in most rod
storage ovens.

_kevin

Well, is this to say old 7018 is usless if you have no way to reheat
it? Cant use for a trailer build?

On Jun 15, 2:36*pm, stryped wrote:
On Jun 15, 2:31*pm, karchiba wrote:





On Jun 15, 12:54*pm, stryped wrote:

On Jun 15, 11:21*am, Ignoramus3037
wrote:

Rod ovens are not that expensive if you look for used ones. I bought
my first oven (10 lbs) for $20. It served me well, but could not hold
enough rod. I recently bought a 50 lbs Keen KT-50 rod oven for just
$75, brand new.

i

Do these draw alot of power? WIll it fix rods with mositure in them?
If I may ask where did you get it?

Lincoln Electric's website has a great page regarding drying various
types of Stick Electrode.

The URL is:http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowl...nt/storing.asp

7018 rod required well above the temperatures found in most rod
storage ovens.

_kevin

Well, is this to say old 7018 is usless if you have no way to reheat
it? Cant use for a trailer build?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your best bet is to light one up on a piece of scrap steel...if you
get porosity/cracks then you're going to need to dry them before use.

Do you have an old propane grill sitting around? That might be a good
source of heat for drying them. You will either need a thermometer or
a tempilaq stick to better judge the heat of the drying rod.

"stryped" wrote

Well, is this to say old 7018 is usless if you have no way to reheat
it? Cant use for a trailer build?

reply: The problem comes from just as strong concrete weakens with
freeze/thaw cycles, 7018 deteriorates from wet/dry and freeze/thaw cycles.
If you find some old 7018, you will probably see discoloration on it, or
white powder. Or even flux coming off. This is what causes the weld not to
be 100%. On some critical jobs, rod that is not directly from a sealed can,
or been transferred immediately upon opening the container to an oven and
kept at a certain temperature may not be used. It is a good idea to keep
all rod in containers. Even MIG wire will rust from room humidity.

Steve

Visit my site at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

All errors, brain farts, misspelled words intentional because this computer
is set to Spelchek French, and I can't get it to do any different.

"stryped" wrote in message
...
On Jun 15, 10:14 am, "SteveB" wrote:
"stryped" wrote One thing I noticed.....

My dad just bought a new gooseneck trailer. Looking at the welds, they
were uggly! No fishscales and irregular welds everywhere. I guess a
weld does nto need to be pretty to be strong.

One thing I wanted to ask. Your comment on moisture and 7018 got me
thinking. I dont have an oven to put my electrodes in. They are in one
of those screw on tubes you buy from the store. Could I by a cheap
toaster oven. ( I think that is what they are called). nd bake them in
that? It would take up a minimal amount of room. Can you make them
more than once?

I went to buy a small 10 x 12 trailer, and had to look at a dozen before I
found one that had acceptable welding. And it had two missing welds. The
production shops of today just push them out, but I don't understand it. A
good weld takes just as long as a bad one. I think that when anyone gets
to
welding good, they leave a production shop and get a better job.

Make yourself a rod oven. One of those dead little tiny dorm fridges,
about
20" cubical is good. Something that seals good. Gut it except for the
insulation. Put a light bulb in it for heat. It's all you need. Other
things can be utilized, or you can buy a $1,000 rod oven, but you can find
a
derelict tiny fridge, and have enough left over for a used shop fridge,
some
beer, and a few months of cable from one of those tittie channels.

Steve

Visit my site athttp://cabgbypasssurgery.com

All errors, brain farts, misspelled words intentional because this
computer
is set to Spelchek French, and I can't get it to do any different.

Is that safe to leave unattended in a detached building?

Also this will not "fix" a rod with moisture will it? I thought the
temp had to get to 500 degrees or so?

reply: It depends a lot on where you live. If you live in a dry climate,
like I do in Southern Utah, or Las Vegas, humidity is not a problem, and the
rods will rarely soak up enough from the air for it ever to be a problem. I
doubt that a 100w heat lamp would create much of a safety problem.

I really have no knowledge of how to "fix" rods. It would seem that there
would be a danger of cracking or other failures of the flux by raising moist
rod to that temperature. I would think that keeping them sealed, or at
least in a minimally heated environment would be light years better than
vascillating conditions of wet/dry and hot/cold.

Any welder who uses a volume of rods where moisture content and rod
condition is critical uses proper industry techniques to take care of costly
welding rod. What we're talking about here for anything less than a
professional rod oven is just a poorboy handyman solution.

But it will work. Thousands of pounds of wet old rods have been
successfully burned. The first rods were bare with no coatings.

Steve

Visit my site at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

All errors, brain farts, misspelled words intentional because this computer
is set to Spelchek French, and I can't get it to do any different.

On Jun 16, 12:24*am, "SteveB" wrote:
"stryped" wrote in message

...
On Jun 15, 10:14 am, "SteveB" wrote:





"stryped" wrote One thing I noticed.....

My dad just bought a new gooseneck trailer. Looking at the welds, they
were uggly! No fishscales and irregular welds everywhere. I guess a
weld does nto need to be pretty to be strong.

One thing I wanted to ask. Your comment on moisture and 7018 got me
thinking. I dont have an oven to put my electrodes in. They are in one
of those screw on tubes you buy from the store. Could I by a cheap
toaster oven. ( I think that is what they are called). nd bake them in
that? It would take up a minimal amount of room. Can you make them
more than once?

I went to buy a small 10 x 12 trailer, and had to look at a dozen before I
found one that had acceptable welding. And it had two missing welds. The
production shops of today just push them out, but I don't understand it.. A
good weld takes just as long as a bad one. I think that when anyone gets
to
welding good, they leave a production shop and get a better job.

Make yourself a rod oven. One of those dead little tiny dorm fridges,
about
20" cubical is good. Something that seals good. Gut it except for the
insulation. Put a light bulb in it for heat. It's all you need. Other
things can be utilized, or you can buy a $1,000 rod oven, but you can find
a
derelict tiny fridge, and have enough left over for a used shop fridge,
some
beer, and a few months of cable from one of those tittie channels.

Steve

Visit my site athttp://cabgbypasssurgery.com

All errors, brain farts, misspelled words intentional because this
computer
is set to Spelchek French, and I can't get it to do any different.

Is that safe to leave unattended in a detached building?

Also this will not "fix" a rod with moisture will it? I thought the
temp had to get to 500 degrees or so?

reply: *It depends a lot on where you live. *If you live in a dry climate,
like I do in Southern Utah, or Las Vegas, humidity is not a problem, and the
rods will rarely soak up enough from the air for it ever to be a problem. *I
doubt that a 100w heat lamp would create much of a safety problem.

I really have no knowledge of how to "fix" rods. *It would seem that there
would be a danger of cracking or other failures of the flux by raising moist
rod to that temperature. *I would think that keeping them sealed, or at
least in a minimally heated environment would be light years better than
vascillating conditions of wet/dry and hot/cold.

Any welder who uses a volume of rods where moisture content and rod
condition is critical uses proper industry techniques to take care of costly
welding rod. *What we're talking about here for anything less than a
professional rod oven is just a poorboy handyman solution.

But it will work. *Thousands of pounds of wet old rods have been
successfully burned. *The first rods were bare with no coatings.

Steve

Visit my site athttp://cabgbypasssurgery.com

All errors, brain farts, misspelled words intentional because this computer
is set to Spelchek French, and I can't get it to do any different.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I liv ein the south with high humidity. My rods are in those screw
canisters. Actually, one canister is inside th ehouse and one in the
garage.

I bought some 7018 at Lowes several years ago with a gift card and
only needed a few rods at that time. The rest I put in the screw on
canister.

I was just wondering if I built a trailer or somethign important, if
it would be better to use 6011 or somethign less moisture "sensitive"?

Which leads me to another question: what is the tensile stregth of
mild steel you buy at the local metal supply store such as angle,
square tube, etc? If it is less than 70,0000 psi, why would you even
want to use a 70 series rod? (If the metal surrounding the weld is
weaker than the weld itself?