On 5/25/2010 10:47 PM, Califbill wrote:
On 5/25/2010 5:56 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"Ed wrote in message news:...

wrote in message
...
Don't blame the Obamanation - blame the Unions and the States!

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/Texas-business-states-CEO/2010/05/24/id/359954?s=al&promo_code=9F17-1


Newsmax
Texas No. 1 on 'Best-for-Business' State List for CEOs
Monday, May 24, 2010 12:59 PM
By: Dan Weil

Texas ranked as the No. 1 state for business in a recent survey of CEOs
published in "Chief Executive" magazine.

Closely following in the poll of 651 CEOs were North Carolina,
Tennessee,
Virginia, and Nevada. Rounding out the top 10 were Florida, Georgia,
Colorado, Utah, and South Carolina.

As for the bottom of the barrel, California led the way, followed by
New
York, Michigan, New Jersey, and Massachusetts.

"Texas is pro-business with reasonable regulations, while California is
anti-business with anti-business regulations," one CEO told the
magazine.

The CEOs ranked states in three main categories: taxes and regulation,
skill of the workforce, and quality of living.

Perhaps not coincidentally, nine of the top 10 - Colorado is the
exception
- are among the 22 right-to-work states in the country, meaning that
state
law forbids forcing employees to join a union to be able to work.
Meanwhile, all five of the states the CEOs ranked on the bottom do not
have
such laws.

What it means is that the "top" states squeeze incomes to the bottom
levels in the country. Texas'd household income is $4,000 below the
national median; North Carolina is $7,000 below; Tennessee is $10,000
below; Virginia is 'way over the median because of all of those
government
jobs in the northernmost part of the state.

If you don't have unions, you can pay **** wages. And you don't have to
pay many benefits.The CEOs, of course, love that.

--
Ed Huntress

I should have given the source for that data:

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/incom...atemhi2_08.xls


The problem is the unions require excessive payment for crap jobs. We
have priced the US out of the market in most manufacturing jobs. 30
years ago, a good blue collar salary was $16-18k. Now $23k, a 30 year
ago, engineering salary is poverty level. We used to pay about 3x a 3rd
world country pay scale. Now it is 20x+ or so. Buy a Kia that is the
same quality as a Detroit build auto for 1/2 the price. Those UAW union
members making $60k plus fantastic benefits can not compete. the only
unions that are having any power are the "public service" (government
worker) unions that are making 150% plus of the same job in private
industry. Why are we importing so much manufactured goods? cost of labor
is a lot lower. You will argue that we can not live on 3rd world wages.
Better get used to it, as we can not all be high paid service industry
people.


So I guess Americans had better start getting used to being a former
rich and powerful nation and are going to be just another rather poor
and unsuccessful competitor in the world market. The lowest pay for
labor is what everyone in the world can expect in the new world order.
It was nice being a rich country but nothing lasts forever. Now we're
doomed to mediocrity because our workers have to work for whatever a
Korean or Chinese will work for. Or an illegal alien. It's going to be a
tough adjustment.

Hawke

On 5/26/2010 1:05 PM, Hawke wrote:
On 5/25/2010 10:47 PM, Califbill wrote:
On 5/25/2010 5:56 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"Ed wrote in message news:...

wrote in message
...
Don't blame the Obamanation - blame the Unions and the States!

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/Texas-business-states-CEO/2010/05/24/id/359954?s=al&promo_code=9F17-1



Newsmax
Texas No. 1 on 'Best-for-Business' State List for CEOs
Monday, May 24, 2010 12:59 PM
By: Dan Weil

Texas ranked as the No. 1 state for business in a recent survey of
CEOs
published in "Chief Executive" magazine.

Closely following in the poll of 651 CEOs were North Carolina,
Tennessee,
Virginia, and Nevada. Rounding out the top 10 were Florida, Georgia,
Colorado, Utah, and South Carolina.

As for the bottom of the barrel, California led the way, followed by
New
York, Michigan, New Jersey, and Massachusetts.

"Texas is pro-business with reasonable regulations, while
California is
anti-business with anti-business regulations," one CEO told the
magazine.

The CEOs ranked states in three main categories: taxes and regulation,
skill of the workforce, and quality of living.

Perhaps not coincidentally, nine of the top 10 - Colorado is the
exception
- are among the 22 right-to-work states in the country, meaning that
state
law forbids forcing employees to join a union to be able to work.
Meanwhile, all five of the states the CEOs ranked on the bottom do not
have
such laws.

What it means is that the "top" states squeeze incomes to the bottom
levels in the country. Texas'd household income is $4,000 below the
national median; North Carolina is $7,000 below; Tennessee is $10,000
below; Virginia is 'way over the median because of all of those
government
jobs in the northernmost part of the state.

If you don't have unions, you can pay **** wages. And you don't have to
pay many benefits.The CEOs, of course, love that.

--
Ed Huntress

I should have given the source for that data:

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/incom...atemhi2_08.xls


The problem is the unions require excessive payment for crap jobs. We
have priced the US out of the market in most manufacturing jobs. 30
years ago, a good blue collar salary was $16-18k. Now $23k, a 30 year
ago, engineering salary is poverty level. We used to pay about 3x a 3rd
world country pay scale. Now it is 20x+ or so. Buy a Kia that is the
same quality as a Detroit build auto for 1/2 the price. Those UAW union
members making $60k plus fantastic benefits can not compete. the only
unions that are having any power are the "public service" (government
worker) unions that are making 150% plus of the same job in private
industry. Why are we importing so much manufactured goods? cost of labor
is a lot lower. You will argue that we can not live on 3rd world wages.
Better get used to it, as we can not all be high paid service industry
people.


So I guess Americans had better start getting used to being a former
rich and powerful nation and are going to be just another rather poor
and unsuccessful competitor in the world market. The lowest pay for
labor is what everyone in the world can expect in the new world order.
It was nice being a rich country but nothing lasts forever. Now we're
doomed to mediocrity because our workers have to work for whatever a
Korean or Chinese will work for. Or an illegal alien. It's going to be a
tough adjustment.

Hawke
Yup, is most likely more truth than you want to admit. We can send
steel to China, have it remelted, made into beams and deck for the
Oakland Bay bridge cheaper than we can do it here. With all the
shipping costs included. If you were not paying some steel mill worker
$50 an hour and had upgraded the furnaces, we could probably compete.
If we paid ~$20 and hour, which is what the job should pay, we could
compete.

On May 26, 4:05*pm, Hawke wrote:

So I guess Americans had better start getting used to being a former
rich and powerful nation and are going to be just another rather poor
and unsuccessful competitor in the world market. The lowest pay for
labor is what everyone in the world can expect in the new world order.
It was nice being a rich country but nothing lasts forever. Now we're
doomed to mediocrity because our workers have to work for whatever a
Korean or Chinese will work for. Or an illegal alien. It's going to be a
tough adjustment.

Hawke

More like we are doomed to mediocrity because the jobs that require
little education are going away. And our school system is not as good
as the Korean schools. Korea ranks no 1 in math at the 4th grade
level.

http://social.jrank.org/pages/944/Ho...mparisons.html

Our workers will not only have to settle for what a Korean will work
for, they will have to settle for less, because they will not be as
educated. Korea also has faster internet speeds than the U.S.


Dan

On 5/26/2010 6:13 PM, wrote:
On May 26, 4:05 pm, wrote:

So I guess Americans had better start getting used to being a former
rich and powerful nation and are going to be just another rather poor
and unsuccessful competitor in the world market. The lowest pay for
labor is what everyone in the world can expect in the new world order.
It was nice being a rich country but nothing lasts forever. Now we're
doomed to mediocrity because our workers have to work for whatever a
Korean or Chinese will work for. Or an illegal alien. It's going to be a
tough adjustment.

Hawke

More like we are doomed to mediocrity because the jobs that require
little education are going away. And our school system is not as good
as the Korean schools. Korea ranks no 1 in math at the 4th grade
level.

http://social.jrank.org/pages/944/Ho...mparisons.html

Our workers will not only have to settle for what a Korean will work
for, they will have to settle for less, because they will not be as
educated. Korea also has faster internet speeds than the U.S.


Dan



Maybe it's time we stopped with the we're so ****ing great stuff all the
time. And the "we're number one, we're number one, routine. Because from
what I see the only thing we're number one in anymore is obesity.

Hawke