"Califbill" wrote in message
m...
On 5/25/2010 5:56 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"Ed wrote in message news:...

wrote in message
...
Don't blame the Obamanation - blame the Unions and the States!

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/Texas-business-states-CEO/2010/05/24/id/359954?s=al&promo_code=9F17-1

Newsmax
Texas No. 1 on 'Best-for-Business' State List for CEOs
Monday, May 24, 2010 12:59 PM
By: Dan Weil

Texas ranked as the No. 1 state for business in a recent survey of CEOs
published in "Chief Executive" magazine.

Closely following in the poll of 651 CEOs were North Carolina,
Tennessee,
Virginia, and Nevada. Rounding out the top 10 were Florida, Georgia,
Colorado, Utah, and South Carolina.

As for the bottom of the barrel, California led the way, followed by
New
York, Michigan, New Jersey, and Massachusetts.

"Texas is pro-business with reasonable regulations, while California is
anti-business with anti-business regulations," one CEO told the
magazine.

The CEOs ranked states in three main categories: taxes and regulation,
skill of the workforce, and quality of living.

Perhaps not coincidentally, nine of the top 10 - Colorado is the
exception
- are among the 22 right-to-work states in the country, meaning that
state
law forbids forcing employees to join a union to be able to work.
Meanwhile, all five of the states the CEOs ranked on the bottom do not
have
such laws.

What it means is that the "top" states squeeze incomes to the bottom
levels in the country. Texas'd household income is $4,000 below the
national median; North Carolina is $7,000 below; Tennessee is $10,000
below; Virginia is 'way over the median because of all of those
government
jobs in the northernmost part of the state.

If you don't have unions, you can pay **** wages. And you don't have to
pay many benefits.The CEOs, of course, love that.

--
Ed Huntress

I should have given the source for that data:

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/incom...atemhi2_08.xls


The problem is the unions require excessive payment for crap jobs. We
have priced the US out of the market in most manufacturing jobs.

Bill, you can't compete with 80 cents/hour wages. We didn't price ourselves
out of the market. Cheap labor in developing countries, combined with the
commoditization of manufacturing technology, priced us "out of the
market" -- for making cheap stuff.

But look at Germany. Their trade balance has been positive for years, yet
their labor costs are similar to ours. What do you suppose is the
difference?

30 years ago, a good blue collar salary was $16-18k.

That would be "priced out of the market" today, as well. Look at incomes in
China, southeast Asia, and even Mexico. How low do you want to go, in order
to compete with them?

Now $23k, a 30 year ago, engineering salary is poverty level. We used to
pay about 3x a 3rd world country pay scale. Now it is 20x+ or so. Buy a
Kia that is the same quality as a Detroit build auto for 1/2 the price.
Those UAW union members making $60k plus fantastic benefits can not
compete.

They couldn't compete if they were making $20,000 with no benefits.

the only unions that are having any power are the "public service"
(government worker) unions that are making 150% plus of the same job in
private industry. Why are we importing so much manufactured goods? cost
of labor is a lot lower. You will argue that we can not live on 3rd world
wages. Better get used to it, as we can not all be high paid service
industry people.

I wouldn't get used to 80 cents/hour. Neither would you. You're looking in
the wrong place for a solution.

If you want to race the Third World to the bottom, you'll have to go without
me.

--
Ed Huntress

(leaving soon for four days -- see you Sunday)

On 5/26/2010 3:15 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
m...
On 5/25/2010 5:56 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"Ed wrote in message news:...

wrote in message
...
Don't blame the Obamanation - blame the Unions and the States!

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/Texas-business-states-CEO/2010/05/24/id/359954?s=al&promo_code=9F17-1

Newsmax
Texas No. 1 on 'Best-for-Business' State List for CEOs
Monday, May 24, 2010 12:59 PM
By: Dan Weil

Texas ranked as the No. 1 state for business in a recent survey of CEOs
published in "Chief Executive" magazine.

Closely following in the poll of 651 CEOs were North Carolina,
Tennessee,
Virginia, and Nevada. Rounding out the top 10 were Florida, Georgia,
Colorado, Utah, and South Carolina.

As for the bottom of the barrel, California led the way, followed by
New
York, Michigan, New Jersey, and Massachusetts.

"Texas is pro-business with reasonable regulations, while California is
anti-business with anti-business regulations," one CEO told the
magazine.

The CEOs ranked states in three main categories: taxes and regulation,
skill of the workforce, and quality of living.

Perhaps not coincidentally, nine of the top 10 - Colorado is the
exception
- are among the 22 right-to-work states in the country, meaning that
state
law forbids forcing employees to join a union to be able to work.
Meanwhile, all five of the states the CEOs ranked on the bottom do not
have
such laws.

What it means is that the "top" states squeeze incomes to the bottom
levels in the country. Texas'd household income is $4,000 below the
national median; North Carolina is $7,000 below; Tennessee is $10,000
below; Virginia is 'way over the median because of all of those
government
jobs in the northernmost part of the state.

If you don't have unions, you can pay **** wages. And you don't have to
pay many benefits.The CEOs, of course, love that.

--
Ed Huntress

I should have given the source for that data:

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/incom...atemhi2_08.xls


The problem is the unions require excessive payment for crap jobs. We
have priced the US out of the market in most manufacturing jobs.

Bill, you can't compete with 80 cents/hour wages. We didn't price ourselves
out of the market. Cheap labor in developing countries, combined with the
commoditization of manufacturing technology, priced us "out of the
market" -- for making cheap stuff.

But look at Germany. Their trade balance has been positive for years, yet
their labor costs are similar to ours. What do you suppose is the
difference?

30 years ago, a good blue collar salary was $16-18k.

That would be "priced out of the market" today, as well. Look at incomes in
China, southeast Asia, and even Mexico. How low do you want to go, in order
to compete with them?

Now $23k, a 30 year ago, engineering salary is poverty level. We used to
pay about 3x a 3rd world country pay scale. Now it is 20x+ or so. Buy a
Kia that is the same quality as a Detroit build auto for 1/2 the price.
Those UAW union members making $60k plus fantastic benefits can not
compete.

They couldn't compete if they were making $20,000 with no benefits.

the only unions that are having any power are the "public service"
(government worker) unions that are making 150% plus of the same job in
private industry. Why are we importing so much manufactured goods? cost
of labor is a lot lower. You will argue that we can not live on 3rd world
wages. Better get used to it, as we can not all be high paid service
industry people.

I wouldn't get used to 80 cents/hour. Neither would you. You're looking in
the wrong place for a solution.

If you want to race the Third World to the bottom, you'll have to go without
me.

Yes we can and are priced out of the market. Our wages have escalated
astronomically over the last 30 years. We can compete at a 3-4x kicker
but not at a 10-20x kicker. Germany probably has a tariff on imports
that balances part of the offset. And Germany is also in financial
peril along with the rest of Europe because of their retirement
regulations and employment rules. You here someone incompetent and you
are going to pay them for 2 years even if you fire them the first month.

On May 26, 6:15*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:


If you want to race the Third World to the bottom, you'll have to go without
me.

--
Ed Huntress



The problem is that countries as Korea are not in a race to the
bottom. They are in a race to the top. They have the worlds fastest
internet speeds, their schools rank higher than the U.S. in math. And
their companies as Samsung, LG, and Hyundai are producing world class
products. They are not looking for a place at the bottom.

Dan