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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Republican losing streak continues
On Mar 22, 5:03*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:40:05 -0500, Ignoramus7894 wrote: My own opinion, which is worth what you pay for it, it that this legislative victory is also a political victory for Democrats, for two reasons. 1. This is a more minor reason, but passage of this law removes the factor of annoyance about uncertainty in the minds of voters and also shows that Democrats are capable of accomplishing a large legislative change. Just because the uncertainty is over, causes some relief in the minds of voters and that is a favorable factor. More briefly, now we cannot say that "Obama administration accomplished nothing". 2. There is a large constituency of people, like parents of young adults lacking coverage, people with substandard health insurance policies, and so on, who would eventually realize the benefits of this change. When they do, they will, presumably, support its sponsors. Also, people like me, who have health insurance, but realize that they would likely lose it when they *really* need it, would also be favorably inclined towards it. 3. The people negatively affected are those young healthy well paid people who have to shoulder some of the costs. While some of them might realize that one day they may become old and unhealthy and not so well paid, even if they do not, extra taxes will be a drop in the bucket and not a hot button issue like gun control. The healthcare reform has every potential of becoming a sacred political cow, like Medicare, and create a pro-Democrat constituency where none previously existed. Aside from elections, here's one more point that I want to make. 4. As Warren Buffett pointed out, our health care costs are 14-16% of GDP and are much higher than for other industrialized nations, which badly affects our competitive standing. The healthcare law has some chances of reducing that percentage. i Oh hell yes. And then those that are forced to buy insurance will simply kill Leftwing Extremists that have been unconstitutionaly driven to force others *to pay for someone elses insurance. But hey...Leftwingers are going to be killed in hummm about 2 yrs, give or take a little bit..so its a moot issue. "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." *Grey Ghost- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Are you saying that President Obama is going to be killed within 2 years? Have you presented your evidence to the Secret Service? They would be very interested in knowing that you have guns too. TMT |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Republican losing streak continues
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message ... On Mar 22, 5:03 pm, Gunner Asch wrote: On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:40:05 -0500, Ignoramus7894 wrote: My own opinion, which is worth what you pay for it, it that this legislative victory is also a political victory for Democrats, for two reasons. 1. This is a more minor reason, but passage of this law removes the factor of annoyance about uncertainty in the minds of voters and also shows that Democrats are capable of accomplishing a large legislative change. Just because the uncertainty is over, causes some relief in the minds of voters and that is a favorable factor. More briefly, now we cannot say that "Obama administration accomplished nothing". 2. There is a large constituency of people, like parents of young adults lacking coverage, people with substandard health insurance policies, and so on, who would eventually realize the benefits of this change. When they do, they will, presumably, support its sponsors. Also, people like me, who have health insurance, but realize that they would likely lose it when they *really* need it, would also be favorably inclined towards it. 3. The people negatively affected are those young healthy well paid people who have to shoulder some of the costs. While some of them might realize that one day they may become old and unhealthy and not so well paid, even if they do not, extra taxes will be a drop in the bucket and not a hot button issue like gun control. The healthcare reform has every potential of becoming a sacred political cow, like Medicare, and create a pro-Democrat constituency where none previously existed. Aside from elections, here's one more point that I want to make. 4. As Warren Buffett pointed out, our health care costs are 14-16% of GDP and are much higher than for other industrialized nations, which badly affects our competitive standing. The healthcare law has some chances of reducing that percentage. i Oh hell yes. And then those that are forced to buy insurance will simply kill Leftwing Extremists that have been unconstitutionaly driven to force others to pay for someone elses insurance. But hey...Leftwingers are going to be killed in hummm about 2 yrs, give or take a little bit..so its a moot issue. "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - / /Are you saying that President Obama is going to be killed within 2 /years? / /Have you presented your evidence to the Secret Service? / /They would be very interested in knowing that you have guns too. / /TMT I was hoping he would be assassinated before signing the Planned Parenthood health care abortion bill. But according to the good book, liberals would prevail, check, homosexuality would be rampant, check, and in the end God will come back and put them all in their place, hell, though his arms are open and willing to accept whoever repents and comes to him. RogerN |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Republican losing streak continues
I was hoping he would be assassinated before signing the Planned Parenthood health care abortion bill. But according to the good book, liberals would prevail, check, homosexuality would be rampant, check, and in the end God will come back and put them all in their place, hell, though his arms are open and willing to accept whoever repents and comes to him. RogerN Funny, I hear the exact same thing from the Muslims. According to them you're an infidel. If I was you I'd repent and go to Allah unless you want to burn in hell for eternity. Lucky for me I don't have to worry. I think both Christians and Muslims are full of ****. Hawke |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Republican losing streak continues
On Mar 24, 6:46*am, "RogerN" wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message ... On Mar 22, 5:03 pm, Gunner Asch wrote: On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:40:05 -0500, Ignoramus7894 wrote: My own opinion, which is worth what you pay for it, it that this legislative victory is also a political victory for Democrats, for two reasons. 1. This is a more minor reason, but passage of this law removes the factor of annoyance about uncertainty in the minds of voters and also shows that Democrats are capable of accomplishing a large legislative change. Just because the uncertainty is over, causes some relief in the minds of voters and that is a favorable factor. More briefly, now we cannot say that "Obama administration accomplished nothing". 2. There is a large constituency of people, like parents of young adults lacking coverage, people with substandard health insurance policies, and so on, who would eventually realize the benefits of this change. When they do, they will, presumably, support its sponsors. Also, people like me, who have health insurance, but realize that they would likely lose it when they *really* need it, would also be favorably inclined towards it. 3. The people negatively affected are those young healthy well paid people who have to shoulder some of the costs. While some of them might realize that one day they may become old and unhealthy and not so well paid, even if they do not, extra taxes will be a drop in the bucket and not a hot button issue like gun control. The healthcare reform has every potential of becoming a sacred political cow, like Medicare, and create a pro-Democrat constituency where none previously existed. Aside from elections, here's one more point that I want to make. 4. As Warren Buffett pointed out, our health care costs are 14-16% of GDP and are much higher than for other industrialized nations, which badly affects our competitive standing. The healthcare law has some chances of reducing that percentage. i Oh hell yes. And then those that are forced to buy insurance will simply kill Leftwing Extremists that have been unconstitutionaly driven to force others to pay for someone elses insurance. But hey...Leftwingers are going to be killed in hummm about 2 yrs, give or take a little bit..so its a moot issue. "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - / /Are you saying that President Obama is going to be killed within 2 /years? / /Have you presented your evidence to the Secret Service? / /They would be very interested in knowing that you have guns too. / /TMT I was hoping he would be assassinated before signing the Planned Parenthood health care abortion bill. *But according to the good book, liberals would prevail, check, homosexuality would be rampant, check, and in the end God will come back and put them all in their place, hell, though his arms are open and willing to accept whoever repents and comes to him. RogerN Still waiting for you to point out the exact wording in the bill that funds abortions. |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Republican losing streak continues
"rangerssuck" wrote in message ... On Mar 24, 6:46 am, "RogerN" wrote: "Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message ... On Mar 22, 5:03 pm, Gunner Asch wrote: On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:40:05 -0500, Ignoramus7894 wrote: My own opinion, which is worth what you pay for it, it that this legislative victory is also a political victory for Democrats, for two reasons. 1. This is a more minor reason, but passage of this law removes the factor of annoyance about uncertainty in the minds of voters and also shows that Democrats are capable of accomplishing a large legislative change. Just because the uncertainty is over, causes some relief in the minds of voters and that is a favorable factor. More briefly, now we cannot say that "Obama administration accomplished nothing". 2. There is a large constituency of people, like parents of young adults lacking coverage, people with substandard health insurance policies, and so on, who would eventually realize the benefits of this change. When they do, they will, presumably, support its sponsors. Also, people like me, who have health insurance, but realize that they would likely lose it when they *really* need it, would also be favorably inclined towards it. 3. The people negatively affected are those young healthy well paid people who have to shoulder some of the costs. While some of them might realize that one day they may become old and unhealthy and not so well paid, even if they do not, extra taxes will be a drop in the bucket and not a hot button issue like gun control. The healthcare reform has every potential of becoming a sacred political cow, like Medicare, and create a pro-Democrat constituency where none previously existed. Aside from elections, here's one more point that I want to make. 4. As Warren Buffett pointed out, our health care costs are 14-16% of GDP and are much higher than for other industrialized nations, which badly affects our competitive standing. The healthcare law has some chances of reducing that percentage. i Oh hell yes. And then those that are forced to buy insurance will simply kill Leftwing Extremists that have been unconstitutionaly driven to force others to pay for someone elses insurance. But hey...Leftwingers are going to be killed in hummm about 2 yrs, give or take a little bit..so its a moot issue. "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - / /Are you saying that President Obama is going to be killed within 2 /years? / /Have you presented your evidence to the Secret Service? / /They would be very interested in knowing that you have guns too. / /TMT I was hoping he would be assassinated before signing the Planned Parenthood health care abortion bill. But according to the good book, liberals would prevail, check, homosexuality would be rampant, check, and in the end God will come back and put them all in their place, hell, though his arms are open and willing to accept whoever repents and comes to him. RogerN / /Still waiting for you to point out the exact wording in the bill that /funds abortions. If you want the exact wording feel free to read the ~3000 page bill yourself, I got my info from lawyers and both Republicans and Democrats. Why do you suppose it is that pro-life Democrats opposed this bill until Obama bought their votes? Taxpayers will be required to pay for healthcare insurance. The healthcare insurance will include reproductive coverage. Reproductive coverage will include abortions. "The individual mandate - forcing Americans to purchase health insurance under penalty of law - violates the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution. Most Americans do not want this plan. That includes millions of pro-life Americans who don't want to be forced to purchase a health care package that funds abortion." http://www.aclj.org/media/pdf/Health...ortionMemo.pdf Pro-life Democrats didn't want to sign the bill because of the abortion coverage. Stupak wanted language included that excluded taxpayer dollars to be used for abortions, Planned Parenthood said it was unacceptable. Stupak didn't get his amendment included. Planned Parenthood posted on their website "Victory" because the healthcare bill got passed and didn't exclude funding abortions with taxpayer money. RogerN |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Republican losing streak continues
On Mar 24, 7:26*pm, "RogerN" wrote:
"rangerssuck" wrote in message ... On Mar 24, 6:46 am, "RogerN" wrote: "Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message .... On Mar 22, 5:03 pm, Gunner Asch wrote: On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:40:05 -0500, Ignoramus7894 wrote: My own opinion, which is worth what you pay for it, it that this legislative victory is also a political victory for Democrats, for two reasons. 1. This is a more minor reason, but passage of this law removes the factor of annoyance about uncertainty in the minds of voters and also shows that Democrats are capable of accomplishing a large legislative change. Just because the uncertainty is over, causes some relief in the minds of voters and that is a favorable factor. More briefly, now we cannot say that "Obama administration accomplished nothing". 2. There is a large constituency of people, like parents of young adults lacking coverage, people with substandard health insurance policies, and so on, who would eventually realize the benefits of this change. When they do, they will, presumably, support its sponsors. Also, people like me, who have health insurance, but realize that they would likely lose it when they *really* need it, would also be favorably inclined towards it. 3. The people negatively affected are those young healthy well paid people who have to shoulder some of the costs. While some of them might realize that one day they may become old and unhealthy and not so well paid, even if they do not, extra taxes will be a drop in the bucket and not a hot button issue like gun control. The healthcare reform has every potential of becoming a sacred political cow, like Medicare, and create a pro-Democrat constituency where none previously existed. Aside from elections, here's one more point that I want to make. 4. As Warren Buffett pointed out, our health care costs are 14-16% of GDP and are much higher than for other industrialized nations, which badly affects our competitive standing. The healthcare law has some chances of reducing that percentage. i Oh hell yes. And then those that are forced to buy insurance will simply kill Leftwing Extremists that have been unconstitutionaly driven to force others to pay for someone elses insurance. But hey...Leftwingers are going to be killed in hummm about 2 yrs, give or take a little bit..so its a moot issue. "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - / /Are you saying that President Obama is going to be killed within 2 /years? / /Have you presented your evidence to the Secret Service? / /They would be very interested in knowing that you have guns too. / /TMT I was hoping he would be assassinated before signing the Planned Parenthood health care abortion bill. But according to the good book, liberals would prevail, check, homosexuality would be rampant, check, and in the end God will come back and put them all in their place, hell, though his arms are open and willing to accept whoever repents and comes to him. RogerN / /Still waiting for you to point out the exact wording in the bill that /funds abortions. If you want the exact wording feel free to read the ~3000 page bill yourself, I got my info from lawyers and both Republicans and Democrats. Why do you suppose it is that pro-life Democrats opposed this bill until Obama bought their votes? Taxpayers will be required to pay for healthcare insurance. *The healthcare insurance will include reproductive coverage. *Reproductive coverage will include abortions. "The individual mandate - forcing Americans to purchase health insurance under penalty of law - violates the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution. *Most Americans do not want this plan. *That includes millions of pro-life Americans who don't want to be forced to purchase a health care package that funds abortion." http://www.aclj.org/media/pdf/Health...ortionMemo.pdf Pro-life Democrats didn't want to sign the bill because of the abortion coverage. *Stupak wanted language included that excluded taxpayer dollars to be used for abortions, Planned Parenthood said it was unacceptable. *Stupak didn't get his amendment included. *Planned Parenthood posted on their website "Victory" because the healthcare bill got passed and didn't exclude funding abortions with taxpayer money. RogerN So, all you can do is cite someone else's rhetoric about the bill, but you are unable to point to a single paragraph, sentence, phrase or even a single word in the bill that justifies your hateful thoughts. Thank goodness you're such a free thinker. |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Republican losing streak continues
"rangerssuck" wrote in message ... On Mar 24, 7:26 pm, "RogerN" wrote: "rangerssuck" wrote in message ... On Mar 24, 6:46 am, "RogerN" wrote: "Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message ... On Mar 22, 5:03 pm, Gunner Asch wrote: On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:40:05 -0500, Ignoramus7894 wrote: My own opinion, which is worth what you pay for it, it that this legislative victory is also a political victory for Democrats, for two reasons. 1. This is a more minor reason, but passage of this law removes the factor of annoyance about uncertainty in the minds of voters and also shows that Democrats are capable of accomplishing a large legislative change. Just because the uncertainty is over, causes some relief in the minds of voters and that is a favorable factor. More briefly, now we cannot say that "Obama administration accomplished nothing". 2. There is a large constituency of people, like parents of young adults lacking coverage, people with substandard health insurance policies, and so on, who would eventually realize the benefits of this change. When they do, they will, presumably, support its sponsors. Also, people like me, who have health insurance, but realize that they would likely lose it when they *really* need it, would also be favorably inclined towards it. 3. The people negatively affected are those young healthy well paid people who have to shoulder some of the costs. While some of them might realize that one day they may become old and unhealthy and not so well paid, even if they do not, extra taxes will be a drop in the bucket and not a hot button issue like gun control. The healthcare reform has every potential of becoming a sacred political cow, like Medicare, and create a pro-Democrat constituency where none previously existed. Aside from elections, here's one more point that I want to make. 4. As Warren Buffett pointed out, our health care costs are 14-16% of GDP and are much higher than for other industrialized nations, which badly affects our competitive standing. The healthcare law has some chances of reducing that percentage. i Oh hell yes. And then those that are forced to buy insurance will simply kill Leftwing Extremists that have been unconstitutionaly driven to force others to pay for someone elses insurance. But hey...Leftwingers are going to be killed in hummm about 2 yrs, give or take a little bit..so its a moot issue. "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - / /Are you saying that President Obama is going to be killed within 2 /years? / /Have you presented your evidence to the Secret Service? / /They would be very interested in knowing that you have guns too. / /TMT I was hoping he would be assassinated before signing the Planned Parenthood health care abortion bill. But according to the good book, liberals would prevail, check, homosexuality would be rampant, check, and in the end God will come back and put them all in their place, hell, though his arms are open and willing to accept whoever repents and comes to him. RogerN / /Still waiting for you to point out the exact wording in the bill that /funds abortions. If you want the exact wording feel free to read the ~3000 page bill yourself, I got my info from lawyers and both Republicans and Democrats. Why do you suppose it is that pro-life Democrats opposed this bill until Obama bought their votes? Taxpayers will be required to pay for healthcare insurance. The healthcare insurance will include reproductive coverage. Reproductive coverage will include abortions. "The individual mandate - forcing Americans to purchase health insurance under penalty of law - violates the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution. Most Americans do not want this plan. That includes millions of pro-life Americans who don't want to be forced to purchase a health care package that funds abortion." http://www.aclj.org/media/pdf/Health...ortionMemo.pdf Pro-life Democrats didn't want to sign the bill because of the abortion coverage. Stupak wanted language included that excluded taxpayer dollars to be used for abortions, Planned Parenthood said it was unacceptable. Stupak didn't get his amendment included. Planned Parenthood posted on their website "Victory" because the healthcare bill got passed and didn't exclude funding abortions with taxpayer money. RogerN \ \So, all you can do is cite someone else's rhetoric about the bill, but \you are unable to point to a single paragraph, sentence, phrase or \even a single word in the bill that justifies your hateful thoughts. \ \Thank goodness you're such a free thinker. I guess I missed my chance to review it during the 5 days Obama promised it would be on his desk before he signed it, and is seems like only yesterday. If I understand correctly, the senate passed the senate version, the house passed the house version, and Obama signed the Senate version. Actually searching tonight I can't find a single paragraph, sentence, phrase, or even a single word from whatever version Obama signed. RogerN |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Republican losing streak continues
"rangerssuck" wrote in message ... On Mar 24, 6:46 am, "RogerN" wrote: "Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message ... On Mar 22, 5:03 pm, Gunner Asch wrote: On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:40:05 -0500, Ignoramus7894 wrote: My own opinion, which is worth what you pay for it, it that this legislative victory is also a political victory for Democrats, for two reasons. 1. This is a more minor reason, but passage of this law removes the factor of annoyance about uncertainty in the minds of voters and also shows that Democrats are capable of accomplishing a large legislative change. Just because the uncertainty is over, causes some relief in the minds of voters and that is a favorable factor. More briefly, now we cannot say that "Obama administration accomplished nothing". 2. There is a large constituency of people, like parents of young adults lacking coverage, people with substandard health insurance policies, and so on, who would eventually realize the benefits of this change. When they do, they will, presumably, support its sponsors. Also, people like me, who have health insurance, but realize that they would likely lose it when they *really* need it, would also be favorably inclined towards it. 3. The people negatively affected are those young healthy well paid people who have to shoulder some of the costs. While some of them might realize that one day they may become old and unhealthy and not so well paid, even if they do not, extra taxes will be a drop in the bucket and not a hot button issue like gun control. The healthcare reform has every potential of becoming a sacred political cow, like Medicare, and create a pro-Democrat constituency where none previously existed. Aside from elections, here's one more point that I want to make. 4. As Warren Buffett pointed out, our health care costs are 14-16% of GDP and are much higher than for other industrialized nations, which badly affects our competitive standing. The healthcare law has some chances of reducing that percentage. i Oh hell yes. And then those that are forced to buy insurance will simply kill Leftwing Extremists that have been unconstitutionaly driven to force others to pay for someone elses insurance. But hey...Leftwingers are going to be killed in hummm about 2 yrs, give or take a little bit..so its a moot issue. "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - / /Are you saying that President Obama is going to be killed within 2 /years? / /Have you presented your evidence to the Secret Service? / /They would be very interested in knowing that you have guns too. / /TMT I was hoping he would be assassinated before signing the Planned Parenthood health care abortion bill. But according to the good book, liberals would prevail, check, homosexuality would be rampant, check, and in the end God will come back and put them all in their place, hell, though his arms are open and willing to accept whoever repents and comes to him. RogerN \ \Still waiting for you to point out the exact wording in the bill that \funds abortions. \ I don't have the bill but here's something from a eMail I got from Planned Parenthood and it confirms what I have heard from ACLJ.ORG . I sent a "Thank you" letter to my Democrat representative from the Planned Parenthood link except I changed the content of my letter :-) "Dear Roger, Thank you for sending a message to your representative. This truly is a historic moment for the American people. Thanks to supporters like you, Congress passed a health care reform bill that will extend coverage to tens of millions of women and families, and we were able to keep the Stupak abortion ban out of the final legislation! .... Sincerely, Cecile Richards, President Planned Parenthood Federation of America" |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Republican losing streak continues
On Mar 25, 1:23*am, "RogerN" wrote:
"rangerssuck" wrote in message ... On Mar 24, 6:46 am, "RogerN" wrote: "Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message .... On Mar 22, 5:03 pm, Gunner Asch wrote: On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:40:05 -0500, Ignoramus7894 wrote: My own opinion, which is worth what you pay for it, it that this legislative victory is also a political victory for Democrats, for two reasons. 1. This is a more minor reason, but passage of this law removes the factor of annoyance about uncertainty in the minds of voters and also shows that Democrats are capable of accomplishing a large legislative change. Just because the uncertainty is over, causes some relief in the minds of voters and that is a favorable factor. More briefly, now we cannot say that "Obama administration accomplished nothing". 2. There is a large constituency of people, like parents of young adults lacking coverage, people with substandard health insurance policies, and so on, who would eventually realize the benefits of this change. When they do, they will, presumably, support its sponsors. Also, people like me, who have health insurance, but realize that they would likely lose it when they *really* need it, would also be favorably inclined towards it. 3. The people negatively affected are those young healthy well paid people who have to shoulder some of the costs. While some of them might realize that one day they may become old and unhealthy and not so well paid, even if they do not, extra taxes will be a drop in the bucket and not a hot button issue like gun control. The healthcare reform has every potential of becoming a sacred political cow, like Medicare, and create a pro-Democrat constituency where none previously existed. Aside from elections, here's one more point that I want to make. 4. As Warren Buffett pointed out, our health care costs are 14-16% of GDP and are much higher than for other industrialized nations, which badly affects our competitive standing. The healthcare law has some chances of reducing that percentage. i Oh hell yes. And then those that are forced to buy insurance will simply kill Leftwing Extremists that have been unconstitutionaly driven to force others to pay for someone elses insurance. But hey...Leftwingers are going to be killed in hummm about 2 yrs, give or take a little bit..so its a moot issue. "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - / /Are you saying that President Obama is going to be killed within 2 /years? / /Have you presented your evidence to the Secret Service? / /They would be very interested in knowing that you have guns too. / /TMT I was hoping he would be assassinated before signing the Planned Parenthood health care abortion bill. But according to the good book, liberals would prevail, check, homosexuality would be rampant, check, and in the end God will come back and put them all in their place, hell, though his arms are open and willing to accept whoever repents and comes to him. RogerN \ \Still waiting for you to point out the exact wording in the bill that \funds abortions. \ I don't have the bill but here's something from a eMail I got from Planned Parenthood and it confirms what I have heard from ACLJ.ORG . *I sent a "Thank you" letter to my Democrat representative from the Planned Parenthood link except I changed the content of my letter :-) "Dear Roger, Thank you for sending a message to your representative. This truly is a historic moment for the American people. Thanks to supporters like you, Congress passed a health care reform bill that will extend coverage to tens of millions of women and families, and we were able to keep the Stupak abortion ban out of the final legislation! ... Sincerely, Cecile Richards, President Planned Parenthood Federation of America" And still, all you have is hearsay. Yes, the "Stupack abortion ban" was kept out of the bill, but only because there was absolutely no need for it in the first place, as this bill does not fund abortions. But you already knew that. You've been duped by the right wingers, who have taken your religious beliefs and played them against your sense of right and wrong. |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Republican losing streak continues
"rangerssuck" wrote in message ... On Mar 25, 1:23 am, "RogerN" wrote: "rangerssuck" wrote in message ... On Mar 24, 6:46 am, "RogerN" wrote: "Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message ... On Mar 22, 5:03 pm, Gunner Asch wrote: On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:40:05 -0500, Ignoramus7894 wrote: My own opinion, which is worth what you pay for it, it that this legislative victory is also a political victory for Democrats, for two reasons. 1. This is a more minor reason, but passage of this law removes the factor of annoyance about uncertainty in the minds of voters and also shows that Democrats are capable of accomplishing a large legislative change. Just because the uncertainty is over, causes some relief in the minds of voters and that is a favorable factor. More briefly, now we cannot say that "Obama administration accomplished nothing". 2. There is a large constituency of people, like parents of young adults lacking coverage, people with substandard health insurance policies, and so on, who would eventually realize the benefits of this change. When they do, they will, presumably, support its sponsors. Also, people like me, who have health insurance, but realize that they would likely lose it when they *really* need it, would also be favorably inclined towards it. 3. The people negatively affected are those young healthy well paid people who have to shoulder some of the costs. While some of them might realize that one day they may become old and unhealthy and not so well paid, even if they do not, extra taxes will be a drop in the bucket and not a hot button issue like gun control. The healthcare reform has every potential of becoming a sacred political cow, like Medicare, and create a pro-Democrat constituency where none previously existed. Aside from elections, here's one more point that I want to make. 4. As Warren Buffett pointed out, our health care costs are 14-16% of GDP and are much higher than for other industrialized nations, which badly affects our competitive standing. The healthcare law has some chances of reducing that percentage. i Oh hell yes. And then those that are forced to buy insurance will simply kill Leftwing Extremists that have been unconstitutionaly driven to force others to pay for someone elses insurance. But hey...Leftwingers are going to be killed in hummm about 2 yrs, give or take a little bit..so its a moot issue. "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - / /Are you saying that President Obama is going to be killed within 2 /years? / /Have you presented your evidence to the Secret Service? / /They would be very interested in knowing that you have guns too. / /TMT I was hoping he would be assassinated before signing the Planned Parenthood health care abortion bill. But according to the good book, liberals would prevail, check, homosexuality would be rampant, check, and in the end God will come back and put them all in their place, hell, though his arms are open and willing to accept whoever repents and comes to him. RogerN \ \Still waiting for you to point out the exact wording in the bill that \funds abortions. \ I don't have the bill but here's something from a eMail I got from Planned Parenthood and it confirms what I have heard from ACLJ.ORG . I sent a "Thank you" letter to my Democrat representative from the Planned Parenthood link except I changed the content of my letter :-) "Dear Roger, Thank you for sending a message to your representative. This truly is a historic moment for the American people. Thanks to supporters like you, Congress passed a health care reform bill that will extend coverage to tens of millions of women and families, and we were able to keep the Stupak abortion ban out of the final legislation! ... Sincerely, Cecile Richards, President Planned Parenthood Federation of America" / /And still, all you have is hearsay. Yes, the "Stupack abortion ban" /was kept out of the bill, but only because there was absolutely no /need for it in the first place, as this bill does not fund abortions. /But you already knew that. / /You've been duped by the right wingers, who have taken your religious /beliefs and played them against your sense of right and wrong. Then why didn't they want the Stupak abortion ban, if, as you're claiming, it's already there, "no need for it". Did you believe Nancy Pelosi's lies? Why, when Stupak wanted anti-abortion in the bill, didn't he get what he wanted instead of Obama signing an executive order, that he can remove any time? I see your point and I thank you for being reasonable, but here's the facts. They (Pelosi for one) claim that abortion isn't covered by taxpayer money. Stupak, a Democrat, wants it in writing, just so there is no question. They refuse to give it to him in writing, why? Why does Planned Parenthood say it is a victory that it is without the Stupak abortion ban? Sorry to say but I'm afraid that your party had duped you. RogerN |
#11
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Republican losing streak continues
"RogerN" wrote in message m... "Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message ... On Mar 22, 5:03 pm, Gunner Asch wrote: On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:40:05 -0500, Ignoramus7894 wrote: My own opinion, which is worth what you pay for it, it that this legislative victory is also a political victory for Democrats, for two reasons. 1. This is a more minor reason, but passage of this law removes the factor of annoyance about uncertainty in the minds of voters and also shows that Democrats are capable of accomplishing a large legislative change. Just because the uncertainty is over, causes some relief in the minds of voters and that is a favorable factor. More briefly, now we cannot say that "Obama administration accomplished nothing". 2. There is a large constituency of people, like parents of young adults lacking coverage, people with substandard health insurance policies, and so on, who would eventually realize the benefits of this change. When they do, they will, presumably, support its sponsors. Also, people like me, who have health insurance, but realize that they would likely lose it when they *really* need it, would also be favorably inclined towards it. 3. The people negatively affected are those young healthy well paid people who have to shoulder some of the costs. While some of them might realize that one day they may become old and unhealthy and not so well paid, even if they do not, extra taxes will be a drop in the bucket and not a hot button issue like gun control. The healthcare reform has every potential of becoming a sacred political cow, like Medicare, and create a pro-Democrat constituency where none previously existed. Aside from elections, here's one more point that I want to make. 4. As Warren Buffett pointed out, our health care costs are 14-16% of GDP and are much higher than for other industrialized nations, which badly affects our competitive standing. The healthcare law has some chances of reducing that percentage. i Oh hell yes. And then those that are forced to buy insurance will simply kill Leftwing Extremists that have been unconstitutionaly driven to force others to pay for someone elses insurance. But hey...Leftwingers are going to be killed in hummm about 2 yrs, give or take a little bit..so its a moot issue. "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - / /Are you saying that President Obama is going to be killed within 2 /years? / /Have you presented your evidence to the Secret Service? / /They would be very interested in knowing that you have guns too. / /TMT I was hoping he would be assassinated before signing the Planned Parenthood health care abortion bill. Ah, there's those good ol' Christian values again, in full song. -- Ed Huntress |
#12
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Republican losing streak continues
I was hoping he would be assassinated before signing the Planned Parenthood health care abortion bill. Ah, there's those good ol' Christian values again, in full song. What do you expect? The truth is that virtually every heinous crime committed in the U.S. is done by a Christian. Atheists are actually very law abiding folks and god never tells them to do bad things like he does Christians. Hawke |
#13
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Republican losing streak continues
"Hawke" wrote in message ... I was hoping he would be assassinated before signing the Planned Parenthood health care abortion bill. Ah, there's those good ol' Christian values again, in full song. What do you expect? The truth is that virtually every heinous crime committed in the U.S. is done by a Christian. Atheists are actually very law abiding folks and god never tells them to do bad things like he does Christians. Hawke Here's a response from a post similar to your statement showing how wrong you are. The response was to some atheist claiming Hitler was killing in the name of religion. "You mention Hitler as your prime example. That's interesting since Hiter said, as noted in the book "Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944, With an introductory essay on The Mind of Adolf Hitler by H.R. Trevor-Roper", that religion is an "...organized lie [that] must be smashed. The State must remain the absolute master. When I was younger, I thought it was necessary to set about [destroying religion] ...with dynamite. I've since realized there's room for a little subtlety... . The final state must be... in St. Peter's Chair, a senile officiant; facing him a few sinister old women... The young and healthy are on our side... it's impossible to eternally hold humanity in bondage and lies... . [It] was only between the sixth and eighth centuries that Christianity was imposed upon our peoples... . Our peoples had previously succeeded in living all right without this religion. I have six divisions of SS men absolutely indifferent in matters of religion. It doesn't prevent them from going to their death with serenity in their souls." Hitler was opposed to much of the Church. He felt their morality was an obsticle to their racist government policies and their eugenics programs. Hitler did kill more people than the murder happy Stalin, but... Mao murdered more than both Hitler and Stalin. Mao's self professed atheist Government was responsible for the most deaths. There was clearly more deaths committed by Mao's atheistic government. His attrocities account for 77 million or more (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=47616) The death count is higher for atheistic governments, than Hitler's reign alone: fact. There are over 4 Billion deaths due to atheistic governments in the 20th century (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat8.htm): fact. The numbers of this deathcount far overshadows Hitler's Anti-Jewish and and Anti-Christian attrocities (which were terrible). Hitler was terrible, but he disliked organized religion. Mao's atheistic government killed more than Hitler's government." |
#14
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Republican losing streak continues
On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 16:40:02 -0700, Hawke
wrote: I was hoping he would be assassinated before signing the Planned Parenthood health care abortion bill. Ah, there's those good ol' Christian values again, in full song. What do you expect? The truth is that virtually every heinous crime committed in the U.S. is done by a Christian. Atheists are actually very law abiding folks and god never tells them to do bad things like he does Christians. Hawke Rather like the argument that potato's are poison - after all everyone who ate potatoes in 1900 died. John B. |
#15
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Republican losing streak continues
"Hawke" wrote in message ... I was hoping he would be assassinated before signing the Planned Parenthood health care abortion bill. Ah, there's those good ol' Christian values again, in full song. What do you expect? The truth is that virtually every heinous crime committed in the U.S. is done by a Christian. Atheists are actually very law abiding folks and god never tells them to do bad things like he does Christians. Hawke Sometimes when in discussion with atheists or people resisting Christianity, or religion in general you will hear the claim that religion has been the cause of the most human suffering and death in the world. Typically, events like the Crusades, the so-called "witch hunts" and the Inquisition will be trotted out as proof. And many Christians will shrink back or will say something like, "Even so, Christianity as it was espoused by Christ is non-violent." Although it is true that Christianity as espoused by Christ was to be spread not by the sword (as Islam is designed), but by the Word, by mere preaching. But why should we allow the atheist to even use the Crusades and such as evidence in their claim that most human suffering and death has been caused by religion. It plainly is not true. What I want to do is offer a detailed listing of human death from the 18th century through the 20th century and see if the claim is true. Yes, we'll also look at the Crusades, the witch hunts and the Inquisition. DEATH TOLLS 18th Century Slave Trade a.. Atlantic slave trade: ca. 5,000,000 transported and 8,100,000 died. b.. Islamic slave trade: ca. 1,300,000 transported and 2,000,000 died. I mean, what else do you expect when according to many evolutionary theories, Africans are considered less than human, as if they are merely one rung up from the apes themselves. It must have been easy for fellow hairless apes to do this to other hairless apes. Seven Years War (1755-63) a.. 1 million, 300,000 French Revolution and Napoleonic Wars (1792-1802) a.. Estimated 3-4 million And these wars were supposed to be about bringing "freedom" to civilized men. War of the Spanish Succession (1701-13) a.. 1 million, 324,300 Yet another non-religious war As we leave the 1700s don't forget all of the many, many other events -- all non-religious where hairless apes killed other hairless apes. On to the 19th century... 19th Century Slave Trade a.. Atlantic slave trade: ca. 1.6M transported and 2.5M deaths. b.. Islamic slave trade: ca. 2M transported and 3M died. Venezuela, power struggles (1830-1903) a.. 1 million Taiping Rebellion (1850-64) a.. 20-30 million dead. Aren't Asians supposed to be some of the most advanced hairless apes according to evolution??? Colonial El Niño Famines (1876-1900) a.. 31-61 million American Civil War (1861-65) a.. Over 600,000 Just how "civil" was that war? Paraguay, War of the Triple Alliance (1864-70) a.. Over 1 million or more than 80% of its population Maybe it gets better when we get to the 20th century??? I mean, mankind becomes so much more advanced....well at least advanced at killing each other. a.. WWI (1914-18)= 15 million (half of that is non-military death) and this is a low estimate b.. Russian Civil War (1917-22) = 9 million c.. Soviet Union, Stalin's regime (1924-53) = 20-51 million (the Soviets were decidedly "atheistic", right?) d.. WWII (1937-45) = 55 million (yet another non-religious war) e.. Post-War Expulsion of Germans from East Europe (1945-47) = 2 million, 100,000 f.. Chinese Civil War (1945-49) = 2 million, 500,000 (another not so "civil" war) g.. People's Republic of China, Mao Zedong's regime (1949-1975) = 40 million (again an "atheist" thing) h.. Tibet (1950 et seq.) = 600,000 (China imposing "atheism" on others) i.. Korean War (1950-53) = 2 million, 800,000 j.. North Korea (1948 et seq.) = 1 million, 663,000 (not even warring, just imposing "atheism" on its own people) k.. Rwanda and Burundi (1959-95) = 1 million 350,000 l.. Second Indochina War [including Vietnam] (1960-75) = 3 million, 500,000 m.. Ethiopia (1962-92) = 1 million, 400,000 n.. Afghanistan (1979-2001) = 1 million, 800,000 (Soviets trying to impose "atheism" again) o.. Sudan (1983 et seq.) = 1 million, 900,000 (no more slave trade deaths, so they start killing each other??) p.. Kinshasa Congo (1998 et seq.) = 3 million 800,000 Shall I go on? Just to be fair, how about those "Crusades"??? (which in reality was less about Christianity and more about securing wealth) Certainly that had to be the biggest death toll, since according to atheists, most people have died due to "religions". Or how about the "Witch hunts" or the Inquisition? That should really push up the numbers eh? a.. Crusades (1095-1291) = 1-5 million b.. Witch Hunts (1400-1800) = est 20-100 thousand c.. Spanish Inquisition (1478-1834) = est 32 thousand Wow, I guess the hairless apes have Christians beat when it comes to killing. So you see, the claim that most human suffering has been caused by religion, is just plain false. Don't let anyone use this argument ever again. sources: http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wars18c.htm http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wars19c.htm http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat2.htm http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat0.htm |
#16
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Republican losing streak continues
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... "RogerN" wrote in message m... snip / /Are you saying that President Obama is going to be killed within 2 /years? / /Have you presented your evidence to the Secret Service? / /They would be very interested in knowing that you have guns too. / /TMT I was hoping he would be assassinated before signing the Planned Parenthood health care abortion bill. Ah, there's those good ol' Christian values again, in full song. -- Ed Huntress Shouldn't we love good and hate evil? Should America have a health care bill that the majority don't want, shoved down their throat for the political benefit of the President. Now we have more bad laws in this land just because Obama wants it. Obama made special bribe deals with Democrats to get the votes he wanted, he's buying votes with taxpayer money. I don't understand how you don't have a problem with this. But then again, a woman having an abortion isn't killing a person but someone killing a pregnant woman is charged with killing 2 people, and you buy into that. If it isn't a person it isn't in either case, if it is person, it is in both cases. The law has it both ways currently and they can't both be right. If it is a person, as it is if someone kills a pregnant woman, then all the abortions that have happened in this country is killing a person. RogerN |
#17
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Republican losing streak continues
"RogerN" wrote in message m... "Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... "RogerN" wrote in message m... snip / /Are you saying that President Obama is going to be killed within 2 /years? / /Have you presented your evidence to the Secret Service? / /They would be very interested in knowing that you have guns too. / /TMT I was hoping he would be assassinated before signing the Planned Parenthood health care abortion bill. Ah, there's those good ol' Christian values again, in full song. -- Ed Huntress Shouldn't we love good and hate evil? Sure. But you don't get to murder people because you've decided they're evil. In fact, there are plenty of people who think that people who fantasize about killing people they don't like are *themselves* evil. If you put your thoughts into action, and then apply the Roger rule, you die, too. Should America have a health care bill that the majority don't want, shoved down their throat for the political benefit of the President. You're 10 hours behind the times, Roger. A USA Today/Gallup poll today showed that 49% approved of the passage of the health care reform bill; 40% oppose it. 48% describe it as a "good first step." Only 31% thought it "makes the wrong type of changes." Of course, if you'd really paid attention to the poll details over the past few months, this would be no surprise. Substantial majorities have favored the individual elements of the bill for a long time now. Now that it's passed, they're giving their judgment on its passage. Now we have more bad laws in this land just because Obama wants it. That's nonsense. First, your judgment of what is good and bad is, at best, based on a flimsy knowledge of the industry and what affects this bill will have upon it. Mine is only a little better, having spent several years working in the industry from the business side. It's a big, tough job to figure it all out. Second, it isn't just because Obama wants it. Roughly half of the people in the country want it; many in the other half will, when they get more comfortable with it and understand it better. It's like the poll today; now that it's passed, it's no longer a big uncertainty. Now people can think about what it means rather than what a mess politics has made of it. Obama made special bribe deals with Democrats to get the votes he wanted, he's buying votes with taxpayer money. I don't understand how you don't have a problem with this. That's politics. It happens all the time. If the Republicans weren't being such pricks, playing the party-line game, and cared more about the people in this country than the freaking insurance industry, the back room deals would not have been necessary. But then again, a woman having an abortion isn't killing a person but someone killing a pregnant woman is charged with killing 2 people, and you buy into that. We've been over this before. I don't agree with your assessment or your judgment of it. If it isn't a person it isn't in either case, if it is person, it is in both cases. The law has it both ways currently and they can't both be right. If it is a person, as it is if someone kills a pregnant woman, then all the abortions that have happened in this country is killing a person. Nonsense. -- Ed Huntress |
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