Well, the businessmen are at it again. It was reported today on
Moneytalk that business executives are slated to receive more money in
executive compensation than they are going to spend to fund employee
pensions. This includes executives from companies receiving bailout
money from the federal government. Many of these companies, especially
the financials, have made a lot of money this year since the stock
market hit its lows in March. As a result a lot of executives plan to
get huge bonuses, bigger in fact than they got last year. So as the
country sees jobs go bye bye, and average people got a lot poorer, big
shot executives are slated to rake in billions. Meanwhile, they are
putting less money than they are going to receive in bonuses into the
pension plans for the companies' employees. These pension plans are
already underfunded by 200 billion. So there you have it. You wonder why
things are screwed up in this country? Look at our businesses and look
at the top. You'll see why. They live like kings and make more money
than ever as the rank and file American suffers. You have to love
capitalism. At least if you're an executive... or a republican.


Hawke

Hawke wrote:
Well, the businessmen are at it again. It was reported today on
Moneytalk that business executives are slated to receive more money in
executive compensation than they are going to spend to fund employee
pensions. This includes executives from companies receiving bailout
money from the federal government. Many of these companies, especially
the financials, have made a lot of money this year since the stock
market hit its lows in March. As a result a lot of executives plan to
get huge bonuses, bigger in fact than they got last year. So as the
country sees jobs go bye bye, and average people got a lot poorer, big
shot executives are slated to rake in billions. Meanwhile, they are
putting less money than they are going to receive in bonuses into the
pension plans for the companies' employees. These pension plans are
already underfunded by 200 billion. So there you have it. You wonder why
things are screwed up in this country? Look at our businesses and look
at the top. You'll see why. They live like kings and make more money
than ever as the rank and file American suffers. You have to love
capitalism. At least if you're an executive... or a republican.


Hawke

"... only 11% of those questioned across 27 countries said that it
(capitalism) was working well."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/8347409.stm

"Beryl" wrote in message
net...
Hawke wrote:
Well, the businessmen are at it again. It was reported today on Moneytalk
that business executives are slated to receive more money in executive
compensation than they are going to spend to fund employee pensions. This
includes executives from companies receiving bailout money from the
federal government. Many of these companies, especially the financials,
have made a lot of money this year since the stock market hit its lows in
March. As a result a lot of executives plan to get huge bonuses, bigger
in fact than they got last year. So as the country sees jobs go bye bye,
and average people got a lot poorer, big shot executives are slated to
rake in billions. Meanwhile, they are putting less money than they are
going to receive in bonuses into the pension plans for the companies'
employees. These pension plans are already underfunded by 200 billion. So
there you have it. You wonder why things are screwed up in this country?
Look at our businesses and look at the top. You'll see why. They live
like kings and make more money than ever as the rank and file American
suffers. You have to love capitalism. At least if you're an executive...
or a republican.


Hawke

"... only 11% of those questioned across 27 countries said that it
(capitalism) was working well."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/8347409.stm


lol.
the revolution is comin'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Nj8RYEHkZ4

William Wixon wrote:
"Beryl" wrote in message
net...
Hawke wrote:
Well, the businessmen are at it again. It was reported today on Moneytalk
that business executives are slated to receive more money in executive
compensation than they are going to spend to fund employee pensions. This
includes executives from companies receiving bailout money from the
federal government. Many of these companies, especially the financials,
have made a lot of money this year since the stock market hit its lows in
March. As a result a lot of executives plan to get huge bonuses, bigger
in fact than they got last year. So as the country sees jobs go bye bye,
and average people got a lot poorer, big shot executives are slated to
rake in billions. Meanwhile, they are putting less money than they are
going to receive in bonuses into the pension plans for the companies'
employees. These pension plans are already underfunded by 200 billion. So
there you have it. You wonder why things are screwed up in this country?
Look at our businesses and look at the top. You'll see why. They live
like kings and make more money than ever as the rank and file American
suffers. You have to love capitalism. At least if you're an executive...
or a republican.


Hawke
"... only 11% of those questioned across 27 countries said that it
(capitalism) was working well."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/8347409.stm


lol.
the revolution is comin'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Nj8RYEHkZ4



Ya'll keep saying that - it's coming, it's coming.

But I got news for you.
The revolution was is 1969.
It already came and went.

You missed it.

"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
"Beryl" wrote in message
net...
Hawke wrote:
Well, the businessmen are at it again. It was reported today on
Moneytalk that business executives are slated to receive more money in
executive compensation than they are going to spend to fund employee
pensions. This includes executives from companies receiving bailout
money from the federal government. Many of these companies, especially
the financials, have made a lot of money this year since the stock
market hit its lows in March. As a result a lot of executives plan to
get huge bonuses, bigger in fact than they got last year. So as the
country sees jobs go bye bye, and average people got a lot poorer, big
shot executives are slated to rake in billions. Meanwhile, they are
putting less money than they are going to receive in bonuses into the
pension plans for the companies' employees. These pension plans are
already underfunded by 200 billion. So there you have it. You wonder
why things are screwed up in this country? Look at our businesses and
look at the top. You'll see why. They live like kings and make more
money than ever as the rank and file American suffers. You have to love
capitalism. At least if you're an executive... or a republican.


Hawke
"... only 11% of those questioned across 27 countries said that it
(capitalism) was working well."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/8347409.stm


lol.
the revolution is comin'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Nj8RYEHkZ4

Ya'll keep saying that - it's coming, it's coming.

But I got news for you.
The revolution was is 1969.
It already came and went.

You missed it.



:-) you know i was just pulling (your?) leg. just trolling.
anyhow, i was 10 in '69.

b.w.

On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 00:48:05 -0600, cavelamb wrote:
William Wixon wrote:
"Beryl" wrote in message
net...
Hawke wrote:
Well, the businessmen are at it again. It was reported today on
Moneytalk that business executives are slated to receive more money in
executive compensation than they are going to spend to fund employee
pensions. This includes executives from companies receiving bailout
money from the federal government. Many of these companies, especially
the financials, have made a lot of money this year since the stock
market hit its lows in March. As a result a lot of executives plan to
get huge bonuses, bigger in fact than they got last year. So as the
country sees jobs go bye bye, and average people got a lot poorer, big
shot executives are slated to rake in billions. Meanwhile, they are
putting less money than they are going to receive in bonuses into the
pension plans for the companies' employees. These pension plans are
already underfunded by 200 billion. So there you have it. You wonder
why things are screwed up in this country? Look at our businesses and
look at the top. You'll see why. They live like kings and make more
money than ever as the rank and file American suffers. You have to
love capitalism. At least if you're an executive... or a republican.

"... only 11% of those questioned across 27 countries said that it
(capitalism) was working well."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/8347409.stm

lol.
the revolution is comin'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Nj8RYEHkZ4

Ya'll keep saying that - it's coming, it's coming.

But I got news for you.
The revolution was is 1969.
It already came and went.

You missed it.

If you remember the '60s, you weren't really participating. ;-P

Cheers!
Rich

On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 00:11:30 -0600, "William Wixon"
wrote:


"Beryl" wrote in message
tnet...
Hawke wrote:
Well, the businessmen are at it again. It was reported today on Moneytalk
that business executives are slated to receive more money in executive
compensation than they are going to spend to fund employee pensions. This
includes executives from companies receiving bailout money from the
federal government. Many of these companies, especially the financials,
have made a lot of money this year since the stock market hit its lows in
March. As a result a lot of executives plan to get huge bonuses, bigger
in fact than they got last year. So as the country sees jobs go bye bye,
and average people got a lot poorer, big shot executives are slated to
rake in billions. Meanwhile, they are putting less money than they are
going to receive in bonuses into the pension plans for the companies'
employees. These pension plans are already underfunded by 200 billion. So
there you have it. You wonder why things are screwed up in this country?
Look at our businesses and look at the top. You'll see why. They live
like kings and make more money than ever as the rank and file American
suffers. You have to love capitalism. At least if you're an executive...
or a republican.


Hawke

"... only 11% of those questioned across 27 countries said that it
(capitalism) was working well."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/8347409.stm


lol.
the revolution is comin'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Nj8RYEHkZ4


Indeed...it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKFKG...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrWPN...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_9nv...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkBPY6vYiMs&NR=1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id5SRf6z4Ts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKbcwO4IrtY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdyfD...eature=related


Obama Yout

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLUR3...eature=related


"IMHO, some people here give Jeff far more attention than he deserves,
but obviously craves. The most appropriate response, and perhaps the
cruelest, IMO, is to simply killfile and ignore him. An alternative, if
you must, would be to post the same standard reply to his every post,
listing the manifold reasons why he ought to be ignored. Just my $0.02
worth."

"Hawke" wrote in message
...
Well, the businessmen are at it again. It was reported today on Moneytalk
that business executives are slated to receive more money in executive
compensation than they are going to spend to fund employee pensions. This
includes executives from companies receiving bailout money from the
federal government. Many of these companies, especially the financials,
have made a lot of money this year since the stock market hit its lows in
March. As a result a lot of executives plan to get huge bonuses, bigger in
fact than they got last year. So as the country sees jobs go bye bye, and
average people got a lot poorer, big shot executives are slated to rake in
billions. Meanwhile, they are putting less money than they are going to
receive in bonuses into the pension plans for the companies' employees.
These pension plans are already underfunded by 200 billion. So there you
have it. You wonder why things are screwed up in this country? Look at our
businesses and look at the top. You'll see why. They live like kings and
make more money than ever as the rank and file American suffers. You have
to love capitalism. At least if you're an executive... or a republican.


Hawke

No companies should have been bailed out. The fed has no right to alter
salaries of any company that it doesn't have a stake in. Why do pension
plans deserve unearned money?

On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 00:11:39 -0500, "Buerste"
wrote:


"Hawke" wrote in message
...
Well, the businessmen are at it again. It was reported today on Moneytalk
that business executives are slated to receive more money in executive
compensation than they are going to spend to fund employee pensions. This
includes executives from companies receiving bailout money from the
federal government. Many of these companies, especially the financials,
have made a lot of money this year since the stock market hit its lows in
March. As a result a lot of executives plan to get huge bonuses, bigger in
fact than they got last year. So as the country sees jobs go bye bye, and
average people got a lot poorer, big shot executives are slated to rake in
billions. Meanwhile, they are putting less money than they are going to
receive in bonuses into the pension plans for the companies' employees.
These pension plans are already underfunded by 200 billion. So there you
have it. You wonder why things are screwed up in this country? Look at our
businesses and look at the top. You'll see why. They live like kings and
make more money than ever as the rank and file American suffers. You have
to love capitalism. At least if you're an executive... or a republican.


Hawke

No companies should have been bailed out. The fed has no right to alter
salaries of any company that it doesn't have a stake in. Why do pension
plans deserve unearned money?

Deserve? Earned? A pension plan is a promise made by management to
employees to recruit and retain their services. When management
cavalierly breaks promises and takes bonuses while outsourcing jobs
and cutting wage-earners loose, grassroots support of more socialist
government is inevitable. Duh!

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 00:11:39 -0500, "Buerste"
wrote:


"Hawke" wrote in message
...
Well, the businessmen are at it again. It was reported today on
Moneytalk
that business executives are slated to receive more money in executive
compensation than they are going to spend to fund employee pensions.
This
includes executives from companies receiving bailout money from the
federal government. Many of these companies, especially the financials,
have made a lot of money this year since the stock market hit its lows
in
March. As a result a lot of executives plan to get huge bonuses, bigger
in
fact than they got last year. So as the country sees jobs go bye bye,
and
average people got a lot poorer, big shot executives are slated to rake
in
billions. Meanwhile, they are putting less money than they are going to
receive in bonuses into the pension plans for the companies' employees.
These pension plans are already underfunded by 200 billion. So there you
have it. You wonder why things are screwed up in this country? Look at
our
businesses and look at the top. You'll see why. They live like kings and
make more money than ever as the rank and file American suffers. You
have
to love capitalism. At least if you're an executive... or a republican.


Hawke

No companies should have been bailed out. The fed has no right to alter
salaries of any company that it doesn't have a stake in. Why do pension
plans deserve unearned money?

Deserve? Earned? A pension plan is a promise made by management to
employees to recruit and retain their services. When management
cavalierly breaks promises and takes bonuses while outsourcing jobs
and cutting wage-earners loose, grassroots support of more socialist
government is inevitable. Duh!


No company has a right to raid a pension fund. But, mandatory contributions
to pension funds over and above what is contracted, just because management
gets bonuses? I have a problem with that.

"Buerste" wrote in message
...
snip----

Why do pension plans deserve unearned money?

Change that to why does *ANYONE* deserve unearned money and you'll be on the
right track.

Harold

"Hawke" wrote in message
...
Well, the businessmen are at it again. It was reported today on Moneytalk
that business executives are slated to receive more money in executive
compensation than they are going to spend to fund employee pensions. This
includes executives from companies receiving bailout money from the
federal government. Many of these companies, especially the financials,
have made a lot of money this year since the stock market hit its lows in
March. As a result a lot of executives plan to get huge bonuses, bigger in
fact than they got last year. So as the country sees jobs go bye bye, and
average people got a lot poorer, big shot executives are slated to rake in
billions. Meanwhile, they are putting less money than they are going to
receive in bonuses into the pension plans for the companies' employees.
These pension plans are already underfunded by 200 billion. So there you
have it. You wonder why things are screwed up in this country? Look at our
businesses and look at the top. You'll see why. They live like kings and
make more money than ever as the rank and file American suffers. You have
to love capitalism. At least if you're an executive... or a republican.


Hawke

How come Obama and his administration is cooperating?

"Hawke" wrote in message
...
Well, the businessmen are at it again. It was reported today on Moneytalk
that business executives are slated to receive more money in executive
compensation than they are going to spend to fund employee pensions. This
includes executives from companies receiving bailout money from the
federal government. Many of these companies, especially the financials,
have made a lot of money this year since the stock market hit its lows in
March. As a result a lot of executives plan to get huge bonuses, bigger in
fact than they got last year. So as the country sees jobs go bye bye, and
average people got a lot poorer, big shot executives are slated to rake in
billions. Meanwhile, they are putting less money than they are going to
receive in bonuses into the pension plans for the companies' employees.
These pension plans are already underfunded by 200 billion. So there you
have it. You wonder why things are screwed up in this country? Look at our
businesses and look at the top. You'll see why. They live like kings and
make more money than ever as the rank and file American suffers. You have
to love capitalism. At least if you're an executive... or a republican.


Hawke

I see you failed to mention all the raises for Congress critters. And
Michele's entourage of 21 personal assistants who are paid $100k to $200k
plus lifelong bennies. Hillary created a **** storm when she had three.
Most first ladies have had one.

It would have been a good thing for average people to have gotten those
jobs, but they were doled out to friends, family, and political
acquaintences.

No common people allowed.

Steve

Steve Ackman wrote:
In , on Sun, 8 Nov 2009 22:59:27 -0700,
SteveB, wrote:
And
Michele's entourage of 21 personal assistants who are paid $100k to $200k
plus lifelong bennies. Hillary created a **** storm when she had three.
Most first ladies have had one.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/firstlady.asp
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/michelle-obamas-staff/

SteveB sorta generously doubled their salaries too.

Beryl wrote:
Steve Ackman wrote:
In , on Sun, 8 Nov 2009 22:59:27
-0700, SteveB, wrote:
And Michele's entourage of 21 personal assistants who are paid $100k
to $200k plus lifelong bennies. Hillary created a **** storm when
she had three. Most first ladies have had one.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/firstlady.asp
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/michelle-obamas-staff/

SteveB sorta generously doubled their salaries too.



He probably got his information from Rush or Hannity or some other right
wing outlet, and we all know how inaccurate those sources are. Like I
have said before, those people have only one goal and that is getting
back in power. They have no scruples and they will do or say anything to
try to tear down whoever is in office regardless of their party. The sad
part is that they are able to deceive so many Americans.

Hawke

"Hawke" wrote in message
...
Beryl wrote:
Steve Ackman wrote:
In , on Sun, 8 Nov 2009
22:59:27 -0700, SteveB, wrote:
And Michele's entourage of 21 personal assistants who are paid $100k to
$200k plus lifelong bennies. Hillary created a **** storm when she had
three. Most first ladies have had one.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/firstlady.asp
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/michelle-obamas-staff/

SteveB sorta generously doubled their salaries too.



He probably got his information from Rush or Hannity or some other right
wing outlet, and we all know how inaccurate those sources are. Like I have
said before, those people have only one goal and that is getting back in
power. They have no scruples and they will do or say anything to try to
tear down whoever is in office regardless of their party. The sad part is
that they are able to deceive so many Americans.

Hawke

I heard her lowest paid aide was still at about $43k.

On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 23:39:14 -0700, Steve Ackman
wrote:

In , on Sun, 8 Nov 2009 22:59:27 -0700,
SteveB, wrote:

And
Michele's entourage of 21 personal assistants who are paid $100k to $200k
plus lifelong bennies. Hillary created a **** storm when she had three.
Most first ladies have had one.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/firstlady.asp
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/michelle-obamas-staff/


Looks like its true, based on the two links above.


Gunner

"IMHO, some people here give Jeff far more attention than he deserves,
but obviously craves. The most appropriate response, and perhaps the
cruelest, IMO, is to simply killfile and ignore him. An alternative, if
you must, would be to post the same standard reply to his every post,
listing the manifold reasons why he ought to be ignored. Just my $0.02
worth."

On Nov 9, 3:54*am, Hawke wrote:
Well, the businessmen are at it again.

Many of these companies, especially
the financials, have made a lot of money this year since the stock
market hit its lows in March. As a result a lot of executives plan to
get huge bonuses, bigger in fact than they got last year.
Hawke


What I love is that the government required that the bonuses be
smaller. So the Banks issued rights to buy stock instead of cash.
And now the execs are going to get more money than if they had been
paid in cash because the stocks have gone up.

One more case of the government trying to do something , and having it
not work out as planned.

Dan

Pensions were underfunded for decades, due to improper assumptions
about future returns. There was a tacit understanding between unions
and corporations, whereby pensions would go underfunded, and pension
promises were over-promised. The hope was that the management could
avoid war with the union, and the workers would later get paid anyway
due to government pension benefits guarantees. In the mean time,
higher assumptions about future returns greatly boosted the bottom
line of those companies, leading to great management bonuses.

This is well described in a book that I have, _While America Aged_ or
some such. It reads well and is very insightful.

As to whether management should or should not be paid more than the
contribution to workers pensions, this is not an easy question and
deserves more than a stupid knee-jerk reaction.

In the ideal world, I think, corporations would be best without
defined benefit pensions at all and with the workers accumilating
their private savings, in addition to Social Security. The pension
accounting is rife with hard to fix problems.

i

Ignoramus12778 wrote:
Pensions were underfunded for decades, due to improper assumptions
about future returns. There was a tacit understanding between unions
and corporations, whereby pensions would go underfunded, and pension
promises were over-promised. The hope was that the management could
avoid war with the union, and the workers would later get paid anyway
due to government pension benefits guarantees. In the mean time,
higher assumptions about future returns greatly boosted the bottom
line of those companies, leading to great management bonuses.

This is well described in a book that I have, _While America Aged_ or
some such. It reads well and is very insightful.

As to whether management should or should not be paid more than the
contribution to workers pensions, this is not an easy question and
deserves more than a stupid knee-jerk reaction.

In the ideal world, I think, corporations would be best without
defined benefit pensions at all and with the workers accumilating
their private savings, in addition to Social Security. The pension
accounting is rife with hard to fix problems.

i


Whether the pension plans are designed well or are fair is one thing.
The larger issue is about how much money some people are getting paid in
the midst of an economic downturn that has millions of people actually
suffering. So millions suffer while thousands still live like kings.
Back in the days when real kings did the same thing the masses were not
happy about it. The disparity of a country's wealth in the days of
monarchy led directly to the end of that system. Today we are seeing
economic monarchism. More people than ever are seeing the obscene levels
of pay for the privileged few as morally and inherently wrong. Maybe now
something will finally be done to change a system that unfairly enriches
a lucky few while the majority lives on "cake". The people did something
about the unfairness of monarchies; they abolished them. Let's see if
they are willing to do the same thing today.

Hawke

On 2009-11-09, Hawke wrote:
Ignoramus12778 wrote:
Pensions were underfunded for decades, due to improper assumptions
about future returns. There was a tacit understanding between unions
and corporations, whereby pensions would go underfunded, and pension
promises were over-promised. The hope was that the management could
avoid war with the union, and the workers would later get paid anyway
due to government pension benefits guarantees. In the mean time,
higher assumptions about future returns greatly boosted the bottom
line of those companies, leading to great management bonuses.

This is well described in a book that I have, _While America Aged_ or
some such. It reads well and is very insightful.

As to whether management should or should not be paid more than the
contribution to workers pensions, this is not an easy question and
deserves more than a stupid knee-jerk reaction.

In the ideal world, I think, corporations would be best without
defined benefit pensions at all and with the workers accumilating
their private savings, in addition to Social Security. The pension
accounting is rife with hard to fix problems.

i


Whether the pension plans are designed well or are fair is one thing.
The larger issue is about how much money some people are getting paid in
the midst of an economic downturn that has millions of people actually
suffering. So millions suffer while thousands still live like kings.

Income disparity is nothing new and is not unfair as such.

Back in the days when real kings did the same thing the masses were not
happy about it. The disparity of a country's wealth in the days of
monarchy led directly to the end of that system.

This is completely false, as almost all revolutions that ended
monarchies, did not end up with any large income redistributions.

Today we are seeing economic monarchism. More people than ever are
seeing the obscene levels of pay for the privileged few as morally
and inherently wrong. Maybe now something will finally be done to
change a system that unfairly enriches a lucky few while the
majority lives on "cake". The people did something about the
unfairness of monarchies; they abolished them. Let's see if they are
willing to do the same thing today.

The estate tax serves this purpose and, in the long run, ends those
economic dynasties. I believe it to be one of the great tools that
maintain some semblance of equality in the society.

I hope that estate tax is reinstated, and I also hope to die rich
enough to be affected by estate tax.

i

"Ignoramus12778" wrote in message
...
On 2009-11-09, Hawke wrote:
Ignoramus12778 wrote:
Pensions were underfunded for decades, due to improper assumptions
about future returns. There was a tacit understanding between unions
and corporations, whereby pensions would go underfunded, and pension
promises were over-promised. The hope was that the management could
avoid war with the union, and the workers would later get paid anyway
due to government pension benefits guarantees. In the mean time,
higher assumptions about future returns greatly boosted the bottom
line of those companies, leading to great management bonuses.

This is well described in a book that I have, _While America Aged_ or
some such. It reads well and is very insightful.

As to whether management should or should not be paid more than the
contribution to workers pensions, this is not an easy question and
deserves more than a stupid knee-jerk reaction.

In the ideal world, I think, corporations would be best without
defined benefit pensions at all and with the workers accumilating
their private savings, in addition to Social Security. The pension
accounting is rife with hard to fix problems.

i


Whether the pension plans are designed well or are fair is one thing.
The larger issue is about how much money some people are getting paid in
the midst of an economic downturn that has millions of people actually
suffering. So millions suffer while thousands still live like kings.

Income disparity is nothing new and is not unfair as such.

Back in the days when real kings did the same thing the masses were not
happy about it. The disparity of a country's wealth in the days of
monarchy led directly to the end of that system.

This is completely false, as almost all revolutions that ended
monarchies, did not end up with any large income redistributions.

Today we are seeing economic monarchism. More people than ever are
seeing the obscene levels of pay for the privileged few as morally
and inherently wrong. Maybe now something will finally be done to
change a system that unfairly enriches a lucky few while the
majority lives on "cake". The people did something about the
unfairness of monarchies; they abolished them. Let's see if they are
willing to do the same thing today.

The estate tax serves this purpose and, in the long run, ends those
economic dynasties. I believe it to be one of the great tools that
maintain some semblance of equality in the society.

I hope that estate tax is reinstated, and I also hope to die rich
enough to be affected by estate tax.

i

I found out there's no tax credit for inherited debt, it should work both
ways.

On 2009-11-11, Buerste wrote:

"Ignoramus12778" wrote in message
...
On 2009-11-09, Hawke wrote:
Ignoramus12778 wrote:
Pensions were underfunded for decades, due to improper assumptions
about future returns. There was a tacit understanding between unions
and corporations, whereby pensions would go underfunded, and pension
promises were over-promised. The hope was that the management could
avoid war with the union, and the workers would later get paid anyway
due to government pension benefits guarantees. In the mean time,
higher assumptions about future returns greatly boosted the bottom
line of those companies, leading to great management bonuses.

This is well described in a book that I have, _While America Aged_ or
some such. It reads well and is very insightful.

As to whether management should or should not be paid more than the
contribution to workers pensions, this is not an easy question and
deserves more than a stupid knee-jerk reaction.

In the ideal world, I think, corporations would be best without
defined benefit pensions at all and with the workers accumilating
their private savings, in addition to Social Security. The pension
accounting is rife with hard to fix problems.

i


Whether the pension plans are designed well or are fair is one thing.
The larger issue is about how much money some people are getting paid in
the midst of an economic downturn that has millions of people actually
suffering. So millions suffer while thousands still live like kings.

Income disparity is nothing new and is not unfair as such.

Back in the days when real kings did the same thing the masses were not
happy about it. The disparity of a country's wealth in the days of
monarchy led directly to the end of that system.

This is completely false, as almost all revolutions that ended
monarchies, did not end up with any large income redistributions.

Today we are seeing economic monarchism. More people than ever are
seeing the obscene levels of pay for the privileged few as morally
and inherently wrong. Maybe now something will finally be done to
change a system that unfairly enriches a lucky few while the
majority lives on "cake". The people did something about the
unfairness of monarchies; they abolished them. Let's see if they are
willing to do the same thing today.

The estate tax serves this purpose and, in the long run, ends those
economic dynasties. I believe it to be one of the great tools that
maintain some semblance of equality in the society.

I hope that estate tax is reinstated, and I also hope to die rich
enough to be affected by estate tax.

i

I found out there's no tax credit for inherited debt, it should work both
ways.


Except that you do not inherit personal debt.

i

Hawke wrote:

Well, the businessmen are at it again. It was reported today on
Moneytalk that business executives are slated to receive more money in
executive compensation than they are going to spend to fund employee
pensions. This includes executives from companies receiving bailout
money from the federal government.


The flip side of this is NYC is hurting because they can't collect the taxes the city is
used to. This conservative is all for capping the pay of the tarp fund bailout execs.

Expecially since it cutts off the blood supply to the other leaches.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller