http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/

Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification
Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from
organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8
percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively
making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in
the United States.

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020
wrote:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/

Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification
Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from
organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8
percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively
making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in
the United States.


Does that mean they are becoming athiests, or simply not identifying
with any organized religion.

Think hard before answering.

Then ponder the growing numbers of Independants...one assumes then that
they dont vote?

G

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

On 2009-10-23, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020
wrote:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/

Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification
Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from
organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8
percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively
making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in
the United States.


Does that mean they are becoming athiests, or simply not identifying
with any organized religion.

The report is he

http://livinginliminality.files.word...eport_2008.pdf

There are separate categories for being religious, but not belonging
to a given denomination, such as several "... unspecified" categories,
as well as "Other religions".

There is also a separate "No religion" category.

I think that if someone says "no religion", then that person is not
religious, pretty much by definition.

Think hard before answering.

Then ponder the growing numbers of Independants...one assumes then that
they dont vote?

The survey was not about voting, it was about religious
self-identification.

i

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:53:09 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote:
On 2009-10-23, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/

Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification
Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from
organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8
percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively
making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in
the United States.


Does that mean they are becoming athiests, or simply not identifying
with any organized religion.

The report is he

http://livinginliminality.files.word...eport_2008.pdf

There are separate categories for being religious, but not belonging
to a given denomination, such as several "... unspecified" categories,
as well as "Other religions".

There is also a separate "No religion" category.

I think that if someone says "no religion", then that person is not
religious, pretty much by definition.

Think hard before answering.

Then ponder the growing numbers of Independants...one assumes then that
they dont vote?

The survey was not about voting, it was about religious
self-identification.

http://www.votenoneoftheabove.us/

Cheers!
Rich

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:53:09 -0500, Ignoramus21020
wrote:

On 2009-10-23, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020
wrote:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/

Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification
Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from
organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8
percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively
making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in
the United States.


Does that mean they are becoming athiests, or simply not identifying
with any organized religion.

The report is he

http://livinginliminality.files.word...eport_2008.pdf

There are separate categories for being religious, but not belonging
to a given denomination, such as several "... unspecified" categories,
as well as "Other religions".

There is also a separate "No religion" category.

I think that if someone says "no religion", then that person is not
religious, pretty much by definition.

Think hard before answering.

Then ponder the growing numbers of Independants...one assumes then that
they dont vote?

The survey was not about voting, it was about religious
self-identification.

i
Sense of humor out at the cleaners?

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

On 2009-10-23, Gunner Asch wrote:
Then ponder the growing numbers of Independants...one assumes then that
they dont vote?

The survey was not about voting, it was about religious
self-identification.

i
Sense of humor out at the cleaners?


My sense of humor momentarily prolapsed.

i

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:45:08 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:53:09 -0500, Ignoramus21020
wrote:

On 2009-10-23, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020
wrote:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/

Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification
Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from
organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8
percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively
making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in
the United States.


Does that mean they are becoming athiests, or simply not identifying
with any organized religion.

The report is he

http://livinginliminality.files.word...eport_2008.pdf

There are separate categories for being religious, but not belonging
to a given denomination, such as several "... unspecified" categories,
as well as "Other religions".

There is also a separate "No religion" category.

I think that if someone says "no religion", then that person is not
religious, pretty much by definition.

Think hard before answering.

Then ponder the growing numbers of Independants...one assumes then that
they dont vote?

The survey was not about voting, it was about religious
self-identification.

i
Sense of humor out at the cleaners?

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""


"No religion" is not athiest. More likely agnostic.
Atheism IS a religion - they believe very strongly there is no "god"
or higher power of any description. An Agnostic doesn't know if there
is a "God" or higher power of any description, and really doesn't
care. A Panthiest believes there is "a god" within every ( at least
living) thing. A Polytheist believes in a plethora of "gods"

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:45:08 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:53:09 -0500, Ignoramus21020
wrote:

On 2009-10-23, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020
wrote:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/

Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification
Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from
organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8
percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively
making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in
the United States.


Does that mean they are becoming athiests, or simply not identifying
with any organized religion.

The report is he


http://livinginliminality.files.word...eport_2008.pdf

There are separate categories for being religious, but not belonging
to a given denomination, such as several "... unspecified" categories,
as well as "Other religions".

There is also a separate "No religion" category.

I think that if someone says "no religion", then that person is not
religious, pretty much by definition.

Think hard before answering.

Then ponder the growing numbers of Independants...one assumes then that
they dont vote?

The survey was not about voting, it was about religious
self-identification.

i
Sense of humor out at the cleaners?

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""


"No religion" is not athiest. More likely agnostic.
Atheism IS a religion - they believe very strongly there is no "god"
or higher power of any description. An Agnostic doesn't know if there
is a "God" or higher power of any description, and really doesn't
care. A Panthiest believes there is "a god" within every ( at least
living) thing. A Polytheist believes in a plethora of "gods"

Not true, Clare.

Atheism means "without gods." The more common kind of atheist today,
sometimes called the scientific atheist, is one who doesn't believe in gods
because he doesn't think there is sufficient evidence in favor of gods. Only
the most extreme atheists, sometimes called the "strong" atheists, assert
that they have sufficient reason to believe that gods positively do not
exist.

Lots of people who think they're agnostics actually are atheists by any
sophisticated definition. They haven't seen evidence to believe in gods with
anything like assurance; they won't assert that there is a god or gods.
That's a variety of atheist -- someone who is "without gods."

An agnostic -- a term revived and re-defined by T.H. Huxley over a century
ago -- is one who believes that the existence of gods is unknowable. Not
"unknown," but unknowable, as a point of ontological philosophy. Huxley and
the others who re-coined the term were interested in the ontological proofs
of the existence or non-existence of things. Very few people who think of
themselves as "agnostics" even know what the term really means. They think
is just means "I don't know."

If you don't know, you just don't know. You're neither an agnostic nor an
atheist. You just...don't know. g

But calling atheism a religion is actually kind of dumb. Most modern
atheists make their claims based on evidentiary principles -- the version of
"science" they learned in school. They haven't seen the evidence, so they
are "without gods." What we call religion usually is the practice of theism,
and theism is a belief that doesn't require scientific evidence. You may
find a few atheists who are faith-based, like theists, but by no means does
the typical "scientific" theist think that way. They're more like scientists
who don't believe in ghosts or life after death, because they haven't seen
any evidence that they really exist.

--
Ed Huntress

Let the Record show that on or about Fri, 23 Oct
2009 17:36:17 -0400 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:45:08 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:53:09 -0500, Ignoramus21020
wrote:

On 2009-10-23, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020
wrote:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/

Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification
Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from
organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8
percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively
making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in
the United States.


Does that mean they are becoming athiests, or simply not identifying
with any organized religion.

The report is he

http://livinginliminality.files.word...eport_2008.pdf

There are separate categories for being religious, but not belonging
to a given denomination, such as several "... unspecified" categories,
as well as "Other religions".

There is also a separate "No religion" category.

I think that if someone says "no religion", then that person is not
religious, pretty much by definition.

Think hard before answering.

Then ponder the growing numbers of Independants...one assumes then that
they dont vote?

The survey was not about voting, it was about religious
self-identification.

i
Sense of humor out at the cleaners?

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""


"No religion" is not athiest. More likely agnostic.
Atheism IS a religion - they believe very strongly there is no "god"
or higher power of any description. An Agnostic doesn't know if there
is a "God" or higher power of any description, and really doesn't
care. A Panthiest believes there is "a god" within every ( at least
living) thing. A Polytheist believes in a plethora of "gods"

And not all those who believe there is one god, believe in the
same god.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Ignoramus21020 wrote:

The survey was not about voting, it was about religious
self-identification.

I self identify as "agnostic pantheist", I don't see an option for
"all or none of the above,"

David

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:32:51 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/

Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification
Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from
organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8
percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively
making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in
the United States.

Does that mean they are becoming athiests, or simply not identifying
with any organized religion.

Think hard before answering.

Then ponder the growing numbers of Independants...one assumes then that
they dont vote?

Well, when your only options are a communist or a nazi, that's like
asking, "would you rather be skinned alive or boiled in oil?"

Thanks,
Rich

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:12:06 -0700, Rich Grise
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:32:51 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/

Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification
Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from
organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8
percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively
making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in
the United States.

Does that mean they are becoming athiests, or simply not identifying
with any organized religion.

Think hard before answering.

Then ponder the growing numbers of Independants...one assumes then that
they dont vote?

Well, when your only options are a communist or a nazi, that's like
asking, "would you rather be skinned alive or boiled in oil?"

Thanks,
Rich

True indeed. The last election of course was between a Communist and a
Progressive. Same side of the issue, just differences in degrees.

Gunner


"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

Let the Record show that Gunner Asch on
or about Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:32:51 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020
wrote:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/

Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification
Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from
organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8
percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively
making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in
the United States.


Does that mean they are becoming athiests, or simply not identifying
with any organized religion.

Or are not identified with any recognized religion. The tale is
that Bishop Pollycarp was told to "adjure the atheists" - so he did.
He waved at the assembled crowds and said "away with the atheists!"
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:30:11 -0700, the infamous pyotr filipivich
scrawled the following:

Let the Record show that Gunner Asch on
or about Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:32:51 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020
wrote:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/

Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification
Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from
organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8
percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively
making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in
the United States.


Does that mean they are becoming athiests, or simply not identifying
with any organized religion.

Or are not identified with any recognized religion.

Many forms nowadays have a new checkbox: spiritual but not religious.
Thank Crom for that.


The tale is
that Bishop Pollycarp was told to "adjure the atheists" - so he did.
He waved at the assembled crowds and said "away with the atheists!"

He's that lovely gent who was stabbed when they failed to burn him at
the stake, huh? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycarp

--
The only reason I would take up exercising is
so that I could hear heavy breathing again.

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/

Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification
Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from
organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8
percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively
making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in
the United States.

There's a HELL of a lot of difference between "no religion" and the
religion of atheism.

Cheers!
Rich

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:07:00 -0700, Rich Grise
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/

Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification
Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from
organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8
percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively
making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in
the United States.

There's a HELL of a lot of difference between "no religion" and the
religion of atheism.

Cheers!
Rich

VERY true indeed!


"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:07:00 -0700, Rich Grise
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/

Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification
Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from
organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8
percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively
making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in
the United States.

There's a HELL of a lot of difference between "no religion" and the
religion of atheism.

Cheers!
Rich

VERY true indeed!


"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

Did the survey show how the Jedi faith is doing in your neck of the woods?

Steve wrote:

Did the survey show how the Jedi faith is doing in your neck of the woods?

May the Schwartz be with you.

David

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:07:00 -0700, Rich Grise
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/

Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification
Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from
organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8
percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively
making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in
the United States.
There's a HELL of a lot of difference between "no religion" and the
religion of atheism.

Cheers!
Rich

VERY true indeed!


You have to be a dumb**** to think that atheism is a religion. Simply
not believing in a god or gods is nothing like being a member of an
organized religion. Opting out of religion isn't a religion. But then
when all you are doing is repeating some line of crap you heard someone
else say you can't expect it to be wisdom. Dumb yes, but wisdom no.

Hawke

The only religious precept I feel I need to know and follow: Treat
others as you would want to be treated.

As far as I'm concerned, 99% of the religious thinking mankind has
dreamed up is hogwash. Designed to oppress and subjugate groups within
the religion, and de-humanize groups outside of it. Belive as I do or
be damned!

Religion exists as a crutch, a tool, and a weapon. Unbelivers can be
subjected to any punishment the religious care to mete out, for any
reason. After all, since I believe in a supreme being and you don't or
you call him/her/it by the wrong name, you're going to hell and I won't.

Am I an Athiest? Perhaps. Agnostic may be closer. Uncharitable
towards "Sunday-morning Christians?" You bet! Nothing kills me like
seening self-proclaimed Christians being hipocritical and not feeling
any contrition about it. Their church is just another reason to skip
work and have social gatherings.

I usually try not to associate with people who feel that their religion
gives them the right to strip unbelievers of their rights. When you get
down to it, this country was founded on the idea of freedom from
religious oppression, and freedom of religion. What is a religion? A
system of beliefs that guides you in your moral and ethical transactions
with the world around you. Not all transactions are easy and clear cut.
Most religions want cookie-cutter solutions to problems. One size fits
all. This has got to be the most incredibly asinine thing I have ever
heard of!

--
Tin Lizzie
"Elephant: A mouse built to government specifications."-Lazarus Long

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:45:43 -0700, TinLizziedl
wrote:

The only religious precept I feel I need to know and follow: Treat
others as you would want to be treated.

As far as I'm concerned, 99% of the religious thinking mankind has
dreamed up is hogwash. Designed to oppress and subjugate groups within
the religion, and de-humanize groups outside of it. Belive as I do or
be damned!

Religion exists as a crutch, a tool, and a weapon. Unbelivers can be
subjected to any punishment the religious care to mete out, for any
reason. After all, since I believe in a supreme being and you don't or
you call him/her/it by the wrong name, you're going to hell and I won't.

Am I an Athiest? Perhaps. Agnostic may be closer. Uncharitable
towards "Sunday-morning Christians?" You bet! Nothing kills me like
seening self-proclaimed Christians being hipocritical and not feeling
any contrition about it. Their church is just another reason to skip
work and have social gatherings.

I usually try not to associate with people who feel that their religion
gives them the right to strip unbelievers of their rights. When you get
down to it, this country was founded on the idea of freedom from
religious oppression, and freedom of religion. What is a religion? A
system of beliefs that guides you in your moral and ethical transactions
with the world around you. Not all transactions are easy and clear cut.
Most religions want cookie-cutter solutions to problems. One size fits
all. This has got to be the most incredibly asinine thing I have ever
heard of!


Very very very well said!! Kudos!!

Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

"TinLizziedl" wrote in message
k.net...
The only religious precept I feel I need to know and follow: Treat
others as you would want to be treated.

As far as I'm concerned, 99% of the religious thinking mankind has
dreamed up is hogwash. Designed to oppress and subjugate groups within
the religion, and de-humanize groups outside of it. Belive as I do or
be damned!

Religion exists as a crutch, a tool, and a weapon. Unbelivers can be
subjected to any punishment the religious care to mete out, for any
reason. After all, since I believe in a supreme being and you don't or
you call him/her/it by the wrong name, you're going to hell and I won't.

Am I an Athiest? Perhaps. Agnostic may be closer. Uncharitable
towards "Sunday-morning Christians?" You bet! Nothing kills me like
seening self-proclaimed Christians being hipocritical and not feeling
any contrition about it. Their church is just another reason to skip
work and have social gatherings.

I usually try not to associate with people who feel that their religion
gives them the right to strip unbelievers of their rights. When you get
down to it, this country was founded on the idea of freedom from
religious oppression, and freedom of religion. What is a religion? A
system of beliefs that guides you in your moral and ethical transactions
with the world around you. Not all transactions are easy and clear cut.
Most religions want cookie-cutter solutions to problems. One size fits
all. This has got to be the most incredibly asinine thing I have ever
heard of!

--
Tin Lizzie
"Elephant: A mouse built to government specifications."-Lazarus Long

You are not an atheist, you are an antitheist. Atheists don't carry the
hate baggage.

Buerste wrote:
"TinLizziedl" wrote in message
k.net...
The only religious precept I feel I need to know and follow: Treat
others as you would want to be treated.

As far as I'm concerned, 99% of the religious thinking mankind has
dreamed up is hogwash. Designed to oppress and subjugate groups within
the religion, and de-humanize groups outside of it. Belive as I do or
be damned!

Religion exists as a crutch, a tool, and a weapon. Unbelivers can be
subjected to any punishment the religious care to mete out, for any
reason. After all, since I believe in a supreme being and you don't or
you call him/her/it by the wrong name, you're going to hell and I won't.

Am I an Athiest? Perhaps. Agnostic may be closer. Uncharitable
towards "Sunday-morning Christians?" You bet! Nothing kills me like
seening self-proclaimed Christians being hipocritical and not feeling
any contrition about it. Their church is just another reason to skip
work and have social gatherings.

I usually try not to associate with people who feel that their religion
gives them the right to strip unbelievers of their rights. When you get
down to it, this country was founded on the idea of freedom from
religious oppression, and freedom of religion. What is a religion? A
system of beliefs that guides you in your moral and ethical transactions
with the world around you. Not all transactions are easy and clear cut.
Most religions want cookie-cutter solutions to problems. One size fits
all. This has got to be the most incredibly asinine thing I have ever
heard of!

--
Tin Lizzie
"Elephant: A mouse built to government specifications."-Lazarus Long

You are not an atheist, you are an antitheist. Atheists don't carry the
hate baggage.


Thanks for the clarification. Now I know I am an atheist and an
antitheist. I don't believe in gods either singular or plural. In
addition, I am vehemently anti religion. But only because I see religion
as one of the primary reasons for man's inhumanity to man. Other than
the military I see no organization more responsible for the deaths of so
many innocent people than organized religion. I hope the survey is
correct and the trend of more people believing like me continues. The
world will be a much safer place and better if they do.

Hawke

"Hawke" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
"TinLizziedl" wrote in message
k.net...
The only religious precept I feel I need to know and follow: Treat
others as you would want to be treated.

As far as I'm concerned, 99% of the religious thinking mankind has
dreamed up is hogwash. Designed to oppress and subjugate groups within
the religion, and de-humanize groups outside of it. Belive as I do or
be damned!

Religion exists as a crutch, a tool, and a weapon. Unbelivers can be
subjected to any punishment the religious care to mete out, for any
reason. After all, since I believe in a supreme being and you don't or
you call him/her/it by the wrong name, you're going to hell and I won't.

Am I an Athiest? Perhaps. Agnostic may be closer. Uncharitable
towards "Sunday-morning Christians?" You bet! Nothing kills me like
seening self-proclaimed Christians being hipocritical and not feeling
any contrition about it. Their church is just another reason to skip
work and have social gatherings.

I usually try not to associate with people who feel that their religion
gives them the right to strip unbelievers of their rights. When you get
down to it, this country was founded on the idea of freedom from
religious oppression, and freedom of religion. What is a religion? A
system of beliefs that guides you in your moral and ethical transactions
with the world around you. Not all transactions are easy and clear cut.
Most religions want cookie-cutter solutions to problems. One size fits
all. This has got to be the most incredibly asinine thing I have ever
heard of!

--
Tin Lizzie
"Elephant: A mouse built to government specifications."-Lazarus Long

You are not an atheist, you are an antitheist. Atheists don't carry the
hate baggage.


Thanks for the clarification. Now I know I am an atheist and an
antitheist. I don't believe in gods either singular or plural. In
addition, I am vehemently anti religion. But only because I see religion
as one of the primary reasons for man's inhumanity to man. Other than the
military I see no organization more responsible for the deaths of so many
innocent people than organized religion. I hope the survey is correct and
the trend of more people believing like me continues. The world will be a
much safer place and better if they do.

Hawke

What's the difference between somebody forcing their beliefs in a (G)god(s)
on others or you guys forcing your anti-belief on others? Same thing,
except of course you are "Right" in your belief and everyone in disagreement
is wrong.

Bu
Thanks for the clarification. Now I know I am an atheist and an
antitheist. I don't believe in gods either singular or plural. In
addition, I am vehemently anti religion. But only because I see religion
as one of the primary reasons for man's inhumanity to man. Other than the
military I see no organization more responsible for the deaths of so many
innocent people than organized religion. I hope the survey is correct and
the trend of more people believing like me continues. The world will be a
much safer place and better if they do.

Hawke

What's the difference between somebody forcing their beliefs in a (G)god(s)
on others or you guys forcing your anti-belief on others? Same thing,
except of course you are "Right" in your belief and everyone in disagreement
is wrong.



There wouldn't be a difference if that is what both groups were doing.
But they are not. Atheists simply choose not to believe in something
there is no proof of. That can't be construed as forcing anything on
anybody. Religion, not quite the same. We have the historical records of
people being burned at the stake by religious people for not agreeing
with them. Now that's what I call forcing. Being right is a different
issue. If you believe in something that is factually incorrect, well,
you can't be right then, can you?

Hawke

Bu
Thanks for the clarification. Now I know I am an atheist and an
antitheist. I don't believe in gods either singular or plural. In
addition, I am vehemently anti religion. But only because I see religion
as one of the primary reasons for man's inhumanity to man. Other than the
military I see no organization more responsible for the deaths of so many
innocent people than organized religion. I hope the survey is correct and
the trend of more people believing like me continues. The world will be a
much safer place and better if they do.

Hawke

What's the difference between somebody forcing their beliefs in a (G)god(s)
on others or you guys forcing your anti-belief on others? Same thing,
except of course you are "Right" in your belief and everyone in disagreement
is wrong.



There wouldn't be a difference if that is what both groups were doing.
But they are not. Atheists simply choose not to believe in something
there is no proof of. That can't be construed as forcing anything on
anybody. Religion, not quite the same. We have the historical records of
people being burned at the stake by religious people for not agreeing
with them. Now that's what I call forcing. Being right is a different
issue. If you believe in something that is factually incorrect, well,
you can't be right then, can you?

Hawke

"Hawke" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
"TinLizziedl" wrote in message
k.net...
The only religious precept I feel I need to know and follow: Treat
others as you would want to be treated.

As far as I'm concerned, 99% of the religious thinking mankind has
dreamed up is hogwash. Designed to oppress and subjugate groups within
the religion, and de-humanize groups outside of it. Belive as I do or
be damned!

Religion exists as a crutch, a tool, and a weapon. Unbelivers can be
subjected to any punishment the religious care to mete out, for any
reason. After all, since I believe in a supreme being and you don't or
you call him/her/it by the wrong name, you're going to hell and I won't.

Am I an Athiest? Perhaps. Agnostic may be closer. Uncharitable
towards "Sunday-morning Christians?" You bet! Nothing kills me like
seening self-proclaimed Christians being hipocritical and not feeling
any contrition about it. Their church is just another reason to skip
work and have social gatherings.

I usually try not to associate with people who feel that their religion
gives them the right to strip unbelievers of their rights. When you get
down to it, this country was founded on the idea of freedom from
religious oppression, and freedom of religion. What is a religion? A
system of beliefs that guides you in your moral and ethical transactions
with the world around you. Not all transactions are easy and clear cut.
Most religions want cookie-cutter solutions to problems. One size fits
all. This has got to be the most incredibly asinine thing I have ever
heard of!

--
Tin Lizzie
"Elephant: A mouse built to government specifications."-Lazarus Long

You are not an atheist, you are an antitheist. Atheists don't carry the
hate baggage.


Thanks for the clarification. Now I know I am an atheist and an
antitheist. I don't believe in gods either singular or plural. In
addition, I am vehemently anti religion. But only because I see religion
as one of the primary reasons for man's inhumanity to man. Other than the
military I see no organization more responsible for the deaths of so many
innocent people than organized religion. I hope the survey is correct and
the trend of more people believing like me continues. The world will be a
much safer place and better if they do.

Hawke

Hitler's killing was based on atheism, to try to help evolution. Many other
"man's inhumanity to man" are atheism based.

RogerN

On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 09:41:53 -0500, "RogerN" wrote:


"Hawke" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
"TinLizziedl" wrote in message
k.net...
The only religious precept I feel I need to know and follow: Treat
others as you would want to be treated.

As far as I'm concerned, 99% of the religious thinking mankind has
dreamed up is hogwash. Designed to oppress and subjugate groups within
the religion, and de-humanize groups outside of it. Belive as I do or
be damned!

Religion exists as a crutch, a tool, and a weapon. Unbelivers can be
subjected to any punishment the religious care to mete out, for any
reason. After all, since I believe in a supreme being and you don't or
you call him/her/it by the wrong name, you're going to hell and I won't.

Am I an Athiest? Perhaps. Agnostic may be closer. Uncharitable
towards "Sunday-morning Christians?" You bet! Nothing kills me like
seening self-proclaimed Christians being hipocritical and not feeling
any contrition about it. Their church is just another reason to skip
work and have social gatherings.

I usually try not to associate with people who feel that their religion
gives them the right to strip unbelievers of their rights. When you get
down to it, this country was founded on the idea of freedom from
religious oppression, and freedom of religion. What is a religion? A
system of beliefs that guides you in your moral and ethical transactions
with the world around you. Not all transactions are easy and clear cut.
Most religions want cookie-cutter solutions to problems. One size fits
all. This has got to be the most incredibly asinine thing I have ever
heard of!

--
Tin Lizzie
"Elephant: A mouse built to government specifications."-Lazarus Long

You are not an atheist, you are an antitheist. Atheists don't carry the
hate baggage.


Thanks for the clarification. Now I know I am an atheist and an
antitheist. I don't believe in gods either singular or plural. In
addition, I am vehemently anti religion. But only because I see religion
as one of the primary reasons for man's inhumanity to man. Other than the
military I see no organization more responsible for the deaths of so many
innocent people than organized religion. I hope the survey is correct and
the trend of more people believing like me continues. The world will be a
much safer place and better if they do.

Hawke

Hitler's killing was based on atheism, to try to help evolution. Many other
"man's inhumanity to man" are atheism based.

RogerN

Hitler and his flunkies were not athiests.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_H...igious_beliefs

http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/back/hitler.html

Etc etc


Gunner

"Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary
that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even
alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every
quality that morons esteem in their heroes.""

RogerN wrote:
"Hawke" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
"TinLizziedl" wrote in message
k.net...
The only religious precept I feel I need to know and follow: Treat
others as you would want to be treated.

As far as I'm concerned, 99% of the religious thinking mankind has
dreamed up is hogwash. Designed to oppress and subjugate groups within
the religion, and de-humanize groups outside of it. Belive as I do or
be damned!

Religion exists as a crutch, a tool, and a weapon. Unbelivers can be
subjected to any punishment the religious care to mete out, for any
reason. After all, since I believe in a supreme being and you don't or
you call him/her/it by the wrong name, you're going to hell and I won't.

Am I an Athiest? Perhaps. Agnostic may be closer. Uncharitable
towards "Sunday-morning Christians?" You bet! Nothing kills me like
seening self-proclaimed Christians being hipocritical and not feeling
any contrition about it. Their church is just another reason to skip
work and have social gatherings.

I usually try not to associate with people who feel that their religion
gives them the right to strip unbelievers of their rights. When you get
down to it, this country was founded on the idea of freedom from
religious oppression, and freedom of religion. What is a religion? A
system of beliefs that guides you in your moral and ethical transactions
with the world around you. Not all transactions are easy and clear cut.
Most religions want cookie-cutter solutions to problems. One size fits
all. This has got to be the most incredibly asinine thing I have ever
heard of!

--
Tin Lizzie
"Elephant: A mouse built to government specifications."-Lazarus Long
You are not an atheist, you are an antitheist. Atheists don't carry the
hate baggage.

Thanks for the clarification. Now I know I am an atheist and an
antitheist. I don't believe in gods either singular or plural. In
addition, I am vehemently anti religion. But only because I see religion
as one of the primary reasons for man's inhumanity to man. Other than the
military I see no organization more responsible for the deaths of so many
innocent people than organized religion. I hope the survey is correct and
the trend of more people believing like me continues. The world will be a
much safer place and better if they do.

Hawke

Hitler's killing was based on atheism, to try to help evolution. Many other
"man's inhumanity to man" are atheism based.

RogerN




He sure did get a lot of Christians to go along with his atheist based
killing. In fact Germany was a Christian nation. So the fact that it's
leader wasn't had nothing to do with all those Christians going on a
blood thirsty killing spree. Like they have ever since they got
organized into a religion. So the question is who is worse, the
Christians or the Muslims. Looks a lot like a tie to me.

Hawke

In article , RogerN
wrote:

Hitler's killing was based on atheism, to try to help evolution. Many other
"man's inhumanity to man" are atheism based.

Godwin's law notwithstanding, I have a German infantry soldier's belt
buckle brought back from Belgium in 1945 by my father. It is factory
inscribed, "Gott Mit Uns." Want to tell me how that is "based on
atheism?"

There is more than enough other contemporary evidence to make your
claim simply ludicrous. My suggestion is that you get an education.

-Frank

--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com

"Buerste" wrote in message
...
snip---

You are not an atheist, you are an antitheist. Atheists don't carry the
hate baggage.

That's not hate baggage----it's wisdom.

Harold

Let the Record show that "Harold and Susan Vordos" on
or about Sat, 24 Oct 2009 08:12:31 GMT did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

"Buerste" wrote in message
...
snip---

You are not an atheist, you are an antitheist. Atheists don't carry the
hate baggage.

That's not hate baggage----it's wisdom.

Hate is not wisdom.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"Buerste" wrote in message
...
snip---

You are not an atheist, you are an antitheist. Atheists don't carry the
hate baggage.

That's not hate baggage----it's wisdom.

Harold

Off Off Topic:

Harold, did you ever get anywhere with the CNC machine you were considering?

RogerN

"RogerN" wrote in message
m...

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"Buerste" wrote in message
...
snip---

You are not an atheist, you are an antitheist. Atheists don't carry the
hate baggage.

That's not hate baggage----it's wisdom.

Harold

Off Off Topic:

Harold, did you ever get anywhere with the CNC machine you were
considering?

RogerN



Got the CNC. It's sitting in the RV storage portion of my shop, but I'm not
anywhere near ready to start learning. I'll move it to the shop and set it
up permanently when I finish building our house, which should be sometime
around the middle of some year! :-)

Thanks for asking.

By the way, it's a HAAS TM-1, built in 2004.

Harold

Let the Record show that TinLizziedl on or about
Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:45:43 -0700 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
The only religious precept I feel I need to know and follow: Treat
others as you would want to be treated.

As far as I'm concerned, 99% of the religious thinking mankind has
dreamed up is hogwash. Designed to oppress and subjugate groups within
the religion, and de-humanize groups outside of it. Belive as I do or
be damned!

Religion exists as a crutch, a tool, and a weapon. Unbelivers can be
subjected to any punishment the religious care to mete out, for any
reason. After all, since I believe in a supreme being and you don't or
you call him/her/it by the wrong name, you're going to hell and I won't.

Some faiths do. Some don't. I can tell you where I am certain
God is to be found, but in all honesty, I can't really say where God
is not. Who am I to tell Him where He can go or not go? "Get the
spirit of peace, and you will save thousands."

Am I an Athiest? Perhaps. Agnostic may be closer. Uncharitable
towards "Sunday-morning Christians?" You bet! Nothing kills me like
seening self-proclaimed Christians being hipocritical and not feeling
any contrition about it. Their church is just another reason to skip
work and have social gatherings.

Welcome to the club! I have... well, not so much 'hatred' as
'sorrow'. "Damnyour eyes! you give Christianity a bad name!"

I usually try not to associate with people who feel that their religion
gives them the right to strip unbelievers of their rights. When you get
down to it, this country was founded on the idea of freedom from
religious oppression, and freedom of religion.

The US was founded by religious nuts with guns. The Boston bay
area was settled by those who wanted their own religious
interpretation to reign supreme. Maryland was founded by English
Roman Catholics, and Virginia by English "Catholics" (Anglicans), and
of course, Philadelphia was founded by them oddballs, the Quakers.

What is a religion? A
system of beliefs that guides you in your moral and ethical transactions
with the world around you. Not all transactions are easy and clear cut.
Most religions want cookie-cutter solutions to problems.

I would counter that it seems most religious want simplistic
answers. Any religion worth its salt, may give a "simple" answer, but
recognizes that what they've done is just pointed in the direction to
go. (I recall the tale of the notorious thief who was told "Do not
lie" and he would enter paradise. You can see the problems, and life
changing choices he suddenly was going to have to make.)

One size fits all. This has got to be the most incredibly asinine thing I have ever
heard of!




-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

In article t,
TinLizziedl wrote:

The only religious precept I feel I need to know and follow: Treat
others as you would want to be treated.

That is not a religious precept. It is a social one.

-Frank

--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com

"Frank J Warner" wrote in message
news:241020091851032865%warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon .net...
In article t,
TinLizziedl wrote:

The only religious precept I feel I need to know and follow: Treat
others as you would want to be treated.

That is not a religious precept. It is a social one.

-Frank

Yes, it is, and it's more than adequate for all circumstances. The Golden
Rule.

The problem is trying to get folks to reciprocate in kind. Ain't likely
to happen, eh? Seems like most folks consider anything that is to their
benefit a good thing, regardless of how it may harm others.

Harold

In article ,
says...

"Frank J Warner" wrote in message
news:241020091851032865%warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon .net...
In article t,
TinLizziedl wrote:

The only religious precept I feel I need to know and follow: Treat
others as you would want to be treated.

That is not a religious precept. It is a social one.

-Frank

Yes, it is, and it's more than adequate for all circumstances. The Golden
Rule.

The problem is trying to get folks to reciprocate in kind. Ain't likely
to happen, eh? Seems like most folks consider anything that is to their
benefit a good thing, regardless of how it may harm others.

Harold


Unfortunately true. It often is easier and more effective to appeal to
someone's self-interest than to any sence of altruism or morality they
might have.

Humanity is not altruistic by nature.
--
Tin Lizzie
"Elephant: A mouse built to government specifications."-Lazarus Long

"TinLizziedl" wrote in message
.net...
In article ,
says...

"Frank J Warner" wrote in message
news:241020091851032865%warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon .net...
In article t,
TinLizziedl wrote:

The only religious precept I feel I need to know and follow: Treat
others as you would want to be treated.

That is not a religious precept. It is a social one.

-Frank

Yes, it is, and it's more than adequate for all circumstances. The
Golden
Rule.

The problem is trying to get folks to reciprocate in kind. Ain't
likely
to happen, eh? Seems like most folks consider anything that is to
their
benefit a good thing, regardless of how it may harm others.

Harold


Unfortunately true. It often is easier and more effective to appeal to
someone's self-interest than to any sence of altruism or morality they
might have.

Humanity is not altruistic by nature.

I would assume that's a result of the survival instinct (on steroids,
perhaps?)

Harold

On 2009-10-23, Bob Roberts wrote:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020
wrote:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/

Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification
Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from
organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8
percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively
making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in
the United States.

Claiming "no religion" isn't the same as being an atheist.
The claim in your subject field is incorrect.

I agree. Some people do not believe in god, but do not consider
themselves atheists. However, they still do not believe in god.

i