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Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/
Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
On 2009-10-23, Bob Roberts wrote:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. Claiming "no religion" isn't the same as being an atheist. The claim in your subject field is incorrect. I agree. Some people do not believe in god, but do not consider themselves atheists. However, they still do not believe in god. i |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020
wrote: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. Does that mean they are becoming athiests, or simply not identifying with any organized religion. Think hard before answering. Then ponder the growing numbers of Independants...one assumes then that they dont vote? G Gunner "Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every quality that morons esteem in their heroes."" |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
On 2009-10-23, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. Does that mean they are becoming athiests, or simply not identifying with any organized religion. The report is he http://livinginliminality.files.word...eport_2008.pdf There are separate categories for being religious, but not belonging to a given denomination, such as several "... unspecified" categories, as well as "Other religions". There is also a separate "No religion" category. I think that if someone says "no religion", then that person is not religious, pretty much by definition. Think hard before answering. Then ponder the growing numbers of Independants...one assumes then that they dont vote? The survey was not about voting, it was about religious self-identification. i |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
"Ignoramus21020" wrote in message ... On 2009-10-23, Bob Roberts wrote: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. Claiming "no religion" isn't the same as being an atheist. The claim in your subject field is incorrect. I agree. Some people do not believe in god, but do not consider themselves atheists. However, they still do not believe in god. i And, how many answered truthfully? I would not give any information about religion to strangers. Polls are less than meaningless and often have an agenda. |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
On 2009-10-23, Buerste wrote:
"Ignoramus21020" wrote in message ... On 2009-10-23, Bob Roberts wrote: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. Claiming "no religion" isn't the same as being an atheist. The claim in your subject field is incorrect. I agree. Some people do not believe in god, but do not consider themselves atheists. However, they still do not believe in god. i And, how many answered truthfully? I would not give any information about religion to strangers. Polls are less than meaningless and often have an agenda. Well, if you do not give an answer, then they probably will not count you. i |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote:
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. There's a HELL of a lot of difference between "no religion" and the religion of atheism. Cheers! Rich |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:45:00 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote:
On 2009-10-23, Bob Roberts wrote: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. Claiming "no religion" isn't the same as being an atheist. The claim in your subject field is incorrect. I agree. Some people do not believe in god, but do not consider themselves atheists. However, they still do not believe in god. Then again, there are those of us who "believe in god" who don't subscribe to any particular religion. And there are agnostics, which simply means "I do not know." I guess I'd call myself a Neodruid. ;-) Cheers! Rich |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:25:35 -0400, Buerste wrote:
"Ignoramus21020" wrote in message On 2009-10-23, Bob Roberts wrote: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. Claiming "no religion" isn't the same as being an atheist. The claim in your subject field is incorrect. I agree. Some people do not believe in god, but do not consider themselves atheists. However, they still do not believe in god. And, how many answered truthfully? I would not give any information about religion to strangers. Polls are less than meaningless and often have an agenda. And they usually ask the wrong questions. There's never a "D - none of the above" or an "Other - please explain below" option. Thanks, Rich |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:32:51 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. Does that mean they are becoming athiests, or simply not identifying with any organized religion. Think hard before answering. Then ponder the growing numbers of Independants...one assumes then that they dont vote? Well, when your only options are a communist or a nazi, that's like asking, "would you rather be skinned alive or boiled in oil?" Thanks, Rich |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:53:09 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote:
On 2009-10-23, Gunner Asch wrote: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. Does that mean they are becoming athiests, or simply not identifying with any organized religion. The report is he http://livinginliminality.files.word...eport_2008.pdf There are separate categories for being religious, but not belonging to a given denomination, such as several "... unspecified" categories, as well as "Other religions". There is also a separate "No religion" category. I think that if someone says "no religion", then that person is not religious, pretty much by definition. Think hard before answering. Then ponder the growing numbers of Independants...one assumes then that they dont vote? The survey was not about voting, it was about religious self-identification. http://www.votenoneoftheabove.us/ Cheers! Rich |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
Ignoramus21020 wrote: On 2009-10-23, Buerste wrote: "Ignoramus21020" wrote in message ... On 2009-10-23, Bob Roberts wrote: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. Claiming "no religion" isn't the same as being an atheist. The claim in your subject field is incorrect. I agree. Some people do not believe in god, but do not consider themselves atheists. However, they still do not believe in god. i And, how many answered truthfully? I would not give any information about religion to strangers. Polls are less than meaningless and often have an agenda. Well, if you do not give an answer, then they probably will not count you. i That's a laugh. They will record whatever they want. Who else would know? If they turn in too many surveys with no anser, they get fired. -- The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary! |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:53:09 -0500, Ignoramus21020
wrote: On 2009-10-23, Gunner Asch wrote: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. Does that mean they are becoming athiests, or simply not identifying with any organized religion. The report is he http://livinginliminality.files.word...eport_2008.pdf There are separate categories for being religious, but not belonging to a given denomination, such as several "... unspecified" categories, as well as "Other religions". There is also a separate "No religion" category. I think that if someone says "no religion", then that person is not religious, pretty much by definition. Think hard before answering. Then ponder the growing numbers of Independants...one assumes then that they dont vote? The survey was not about voting, it was about religious self-identification. i Sense of humor out at the cleaners? Gunner "Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every quality that morons esteem in their heroes."" |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:12:06 -0700, Rich Grise
wrote: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:32:51 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. Does that mean they are becoming athiests, or simply not identifying with any organized religion. Think hard before answering. Then ponder the growing numbers of Independants...one assumes then that they dont vote? Well, when your only options are a communist or a nazi, that's like asking, "would you rather be skinned alive or boiled in oil?" Thanks, Rich True indeed. The last election of course was between a Communist and a Progressive. Same side of the issue, just differences in degrees. Gunner "Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every quality that morons esteem in their heroes."" |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:07:00 -0700, Rich Grise
wrote: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. There's a HELL of a lot of difference between "no religion" and the religion of atheism. Cheers! Rich VERY true indeed! "Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every quality that morons esteem in their heroes."" |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message m... Ignoramus21020 wrote: On 2009-10-23, Buerste wrote: "Ignoramus21020" wrote in message ... On 2009-10-23, Bob Roberts wrote: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. Claiming "no religion" isn't the same as being an atheist. The claim in your subject field is incorrect. I agree. Some people do not believe in god, but do not consider themselves atheists. However, they still do not believe in god. i And, how many answered truthfully? I would not give any information about religion to strangers. Polls are less than meaningless and often have an agenda. Well, if you do not give an answer, then they probably will not count you. i That's a laugh. They will record whatever they want. Who else would know? If they turn in too many surveys with no anser, they get fired. -- The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary! "I"'s not as jaded by things as we are, he still believes. With age come wisdom. |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
On 2009-10-23, Rich Grise wrote:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:45:00 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote: On 2009-10-23, Bob Roberts wrote: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. Claiming "no religion" isn't the same as being an atheist. The claim in your subject field is incorrect. I agree. Some people do not believe in god, but do not consider themselves atheists. However, they still do not believe in god. Then again, there are those of us who "believe in god" who don't subscribe to any particular religion. And there are agnostics, which simply means "I do not know." I guess I'd call myself a Neodruid. ;-) The survey had a different category for those who believe in god, but do not want to belong to any particular denomination. i |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
On 2009-10-23, Gunner Asch wrote:
Then ponder the growing numbers of Independants...one assumes then that they dont vote? The survey was not about voting, it was about religious self-identification. i Sense of humor out at the cleaners? My sense of humor momentarily prolapsed. i |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
Ignoramus21020 wrote:
The survey was not about voting, it was about religious self-identification. I self identify as "agnostic pantheist", I don't see an option for "all or none of the above," David |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:45:08 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:53:09 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote: On 2009-10-23, Gunner Asch wrote: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. Does that mean they are becoming athiests, or simply not identifying with any organized religion. The report is he http://livinginliminality.files.word...eport_2008.pdf There are separate categories for being religious, but not belonging to a given denomination, such as several "... unspecified" categories, as well as "Other religions". There is also a separate "No religion" category. I think that if someone says "no religion", then that person is not religious, pretty much by definition. Think hard before answering. Then ponder the growing numbers of Independants...one assumes then that they dont vote? The survey was not about voting, it was about religious self-identification. i Sense of humor out at the cleaners? Gunner "Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every quality that morons esteem in their heroes."" "No religion" is not athiest. More likely agnostic. Atheism IS a religion - they believe very strongly there is no "god" or higher power of any description. An Agnostic doesn't know if there is a "God" or higher power of any description, and really doesn't care. A Panthiest believes there is "a god" within every ( at least living) thing. A Polytheist believes in a plethora of "gods" |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message ... On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:07:00 -0700, Rich Grise wrote: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. There's a HELL of a lot of difference between "no religion" and the religion of atheism. Cheers! Rich VERY true indeed! "Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every quality that morons esteem in their heroes."" Did the survey show how the Jedi faith is doing in your neck of the woods? |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
wrote in message ... On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:45:08 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:53:09 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote: On 2009-10-23, Gunner Asch wrote: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. Does that mean they are becoming athiests, or simply not identifying with any organized religion. The report is he http://livinginliminality.files.word...eport_2008.pdf There are separate categories for being religious, but not belonging to a given denomination, such as several "... unspecified" categories, as well as "Other religions". There is also a separate "No religion" category. I think that if someone says "no religion", then that person is not religious, pretty much by definition. Think hard before answering. Then ponder the growing numbers of Independants...one assumes then that they dont vote? The survey was not about voting, it was about religious self-identification. i Sense of humor out at the cleaners? Gunner "Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every quality that morons esteem in their heroes."" "No religion" is not athiest. More likely agnostic. Atheism IS a religion - they believe very strongly there is no "god" or higher power of any description. An Agnostic doesn't know if there is a "God" or higher power of any description, and really doesn't care. A Panthiest believes there is "a god" within every ( at least living) thing. A Polytheist believes in a plethora of "gods" Not true, Clare. Atheism means "without gods." The more common kind of atheist today, sometimes called the scientific atheist, is one who doesn't believe in gods because he doesn't think there is sufficient evidence in favor of gods. Only the most extreme atheists, sometimes called the "strong" atheists, assert that they have sufficient reason to believe that gods positively do not exist. Lots of people who think they're agnostics actually are atheists by any sophisticated definition. They haven't seen evidence to believe in gods with anything like assurance; they won't assert that there is a god or gods. That's a variety of atheist -- someone who is "without gods." An agnostic -- a term revived and re-defined by T.H. Huxley over a century ago -- is one who believes that the existence of gods is unknowable. Not "unknown," but unknowable, as a point of ontological philosophy. Huxley and the others who re-coined the term were interested in the ontological proofs of the existence or non-existence of things. Very few people who think of themselves as "agnostics" even know what the term really means. They think is just means "I don't know." If you don't know, you just don't know. You're neither an agnostic nor an atheist. You just...don't know. g But calling atheism a religion is actually kind of dumb. Most modern atheists make their claims based on evidentiary principles -- the version of "science" they learned in school. They haven't seen the evidence, so they are "without gods." What we call religion usually is the practice of theism, and theism is a belief that doesn't require scientific evidence. You may find a few atheists who are faith-based, like theists, but by no means does the typical "scientific" theist think that way. They're more like scientists who don't believe in ghosts or life after death, because they haven't seen any evidence that they really exist. -- Ed Huntress |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
Fastest growing. Whazzat mean
If I have a coffee shop and next month I open a second, I'm growing at 100% a month. If Starbucks has a sixteen thousand stores and opens another 160, well, their "growth" is only 1%. But which chain is larger - pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
The only religious precept I feel I need to know and follow: Treat
others as you would want to be treated. As far as I'm concerned, 99% of the religious thinking mankind has dreamed up is hogwash. Designed to oppress and subjugate groups within the religion, and de-humanize groups outside of it. Belive as I do or be damned! Religion exists as a crutch, a tool, and a weapon. Unbelivers can be subjected to any punishment the religious care to mete out, for any reason. After all, since I believe in a supreme being and you don't or you call him/her/it by the wrong name, you're going to hell and I won't. Am I an Athiest? Perhaps. Agnostic may be closer. Uncharitable towards "Sunday-morning Christians?" You bet! Nothing kills me like seening self-proclaimed Christians being hipocritical and not feeling any contrition about it. Their church is just another reason to skip work and have social gatherings. I usually try not to associate with people who feel that their religion gives them the right to strip unbelievers of their rights. When you get down to it, this country was founded on the idea of freedom from religious oppression, and freedom of religion. What is a religion? A system of beliefs that guides you in your moral and ethical transactions with the world around you. Not all transactions are easy and clear cut. Most religions want cookie-cutter solutions to problems. One size fits all. This has got to be the most incredibly asinine thing I have ever heard of! -- Tin Lizzie "Elephant: A mouse built to government specifications."-Lazarus Long |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:45:43 -0700, TinLizziedl
wrote: The only religious precept I feel I need to know and follow: Treat others as you would want to be treated. As far as I'm concerned, 99% of the religious thinking mankind has dreamed up is hogwash. Designed to oppress and subjugate groups within the religion, and de-humanize groups outside of it. Belive as I do or be damned! Religion exists as a crutch, a tool, and a weapon. Unbelivers can be subjected to any punishment the religious care to mete out, for any reason. After all, since I believe in a supreme being and you don't or you call him/her/it by the wrong name, you're going to hell and I won't. Am I an Athiest? Perhaps. Agnostic may be closer. Uncharitable towards "Sunday-morning Christians?" You bet! Nothing kills me like seening self-proclaimed Christians being hipocritical and not feeling any contrition about it. Their church is just another reason to skip work and have social gatherings. I usually try not to associate with people who feel that their religion gives them the right to strip unbelievers of their rights. When you get down to it, this country was founded on the idea of freedom from religious oppression, and freedom of religion. What is a religion? A system of beliefs that guides you in your moral and ethical transactions with the world around you. Not all transactions are easy and clear cut. Most religions want cookie-cutter solutions to problems. One size fits all. This has got to be the most incredibly asinine thing I have ever heard of! Very very very well said!! Kudos!! Gunner "Upon Roosevelt's death in 1945, H. L. Mencken predicted in his diary that Roosevelt would be remembered as a great president, "maybe even alongside Washington and Lincoln," opining that Roosevelt "had every quality that morons esteem in their heroes."" |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:43:07 -0700, Bob Roberts
wrote: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:45:00 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote: On 2009-10-23, Bob Roberts wrote: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. Claiming "no religion" isn't the same as being an atheist. The claim in your subject field is incorrect. I agree. Some people do not believe in god, but do not consider themselves atheists. However, they still do not believe in god. Again, you miss the mark. A person can have a belief in a god and still not be a member of a religion, they still believe but they have not identified with an established religion. They are NOT an atheist. If one does not believe in a god they are an atheist, even if they don't claim that status, it is what it is. Being an atheist is not a matter of your choice but it is a condition of your belief system. Religion is a matter of choice. A difference between not believing in god and believing there is no god. Only the latter is truly atheist. |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... snip Atheism means "without gods." The more common kind of atheist today, sometimes called the scientific atheist, is one who doesn't believe in gods because he doesn't think there is sufficient evidence in favor of gods. Only the most extreme atheists, sometimes called the "strong" atheists, assert that they have sufficient reason to believe that gods positively do not exist. Lots of people who think they're agnostics actually are atheists by any sophisticated definition. They haven't seen evidence to believe in gods with anything like assurance; they won't assert that there is a god or gods. That's a variety of atheist -- someone who is "without gods." An agnostic -- a term revived and re-defined by T.H. Huxley over a century ago -- is one who believes that the existence of gods is unknowable. Not "unknown," but unknowable, as a point of ontological philosophy. Huxley and the others who re-coined the term were interested in the ontological proofs of the existence or non-existence of things. Very few people who think of themselves as "agnostics" even know what the term really means. They think is just means "I don't know." If you don't know, you just don't know. You're neither an agnostic nor an atheist. You just...don't know. g But calling atheism a religion is actually kind of dumb. Most modern atheists make their claims based on evidentiary principles -- the version of "science" they learned in school. They haven't seen the evidence, so they are "without gods." What we call religion usually is the practice of theism, and theism is a belief that doesn't require scientific evidence. You may find a few atheists who are faith-based, like theists, but by no means does the typical "scientific" theist think that way. They're more like scientists who don't believe in ghosts or life after death, because they haven't seen any evidence that they really exist. -- Ed Huntress You are completely leaving out antitheists. They take the view that theism is dangerous and destructive. Their hatred of religion is proactive, often organized, often violent and craving power. THIS is the fastest growing group of non-religious and in many ways can be considered a "religion". Think of them as radical secularists bordering on fanatical terrorists. |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
"TinLizziedl" wrote in message k.net... The only religious precept I feel I need to know and follow: Treat others as you would want to be treated. As far as I'm concerned, 99% of the religious thinking mankind has dreamed up is hogwash. Designed to oppress and subjugate groups within the religion, and de-humanize groups outside of it. Belive as I do or be damned! Religion exists as a crutch, a tool, and a weapon. Unbelivers can be subjected to any punishment the religious care to mete out, for any reason. After all, since I believe in a supreme being and you don't or you call him/her/it by the wrong name, you're going to hell and I won't. Am I an Athiest? Perhaps. Agnostic may be closer. Uncharitable towards "Sunday-morning Christians?" You bet! Nothing kills me like seening self-proclaimed Christians being hipocritical and not feeling any contrition about it. Their church is just another reason to skip work and have social gatherings. I usually try not to associate with people who feel that their religion gives them the right to strip unbelievers of their rights. When you get down to it, this country was founded on the idea of freedom from religious oppression, and freedom of religion. What is a religion? A system of beliefs that guides you in your moral and ethical transactions with the world around you. Not all transactions are easy and clear cut. Most religions want cookie-cutter solutions to problems. One size fits all. This has got to be the most incredibly asinine thing I have ever heard of! -- Tin Lizzie "Elephant: A mouse built to government specifications."-Lazarus Long You are not an atheist, you are an antitheist. Atheists don't carry the hate baggage. |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
"Buerste" wrote in message ... "Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... snip Atheism means "without gods." The more common kind of atheist today, sometimes called the scientific atheist, is one who doesn't believe in gods because he doesn't think there is sufficient evidence in favor of gods. Only the most extreme atheists, sometimes called the "strong" atheists, assert that they have sufficient reason to believe that gods positively do not exist. Lots of people who think they're agnostics actually are atheists by any sophisticated definition. They haven't seen evidence to believe in gods with anything like assurance; they won't assert that there is a god or gods. That's a variety of atheist -- someone who is "without gods." An agnostic -- a term revived and re-defined by T.H. Huxley over a century ago -- is one who believes that the existence of gods is unknowable. Not "unknown," but unknowable, as a point of ontological philosophy. Huxley and the others who re-coined the term were interested in the ontological proofs of the existence or non-existence of things. Very few people who think of themselves as "agnostics" even know what the term really means. They think is just means "I don't know." If you don't know, you just don't know. You're neither an agnostic nor an atheist. You just...don't know. g But calling atheism a religion is actually kind of dumb. Most modern atheists make their claims based on evidentiary principles -- the version of "science" they learned in school. They haven't seen the evidence, so they are "without gods." What we call religion usually is the practice of theism, and theism is a belief that doesn't require scientific evidence. You may find a few atheists who are faith-based, like theists, but by no means does the typical "scientific" theist think that way. They're more like scientists who don't believe in ghosts or life after death, because they haven't seen any evidence that they really exist. -- Ed Huntress You are completely leaving out antitheists. Not to mention a dozen or so other flavors of belief, some of which are sub-categories of the big ones, and some of which -- such as gnostics -- who are off on their own. They take the view that theism is dangerous and destructive. Their hatred of religion is proactive, often organized, often violent and craving power. THIS is the fastest growing group of non-religious and in many ways can be considered a "religion". Think of them as radical secularists bordering on fanatical terrorists. I know of no evidence that vehement anti-theists are the fasted growing group of non-religious. In my experience, the fastest growing group is of formerly religious people who just gave it all up as superstition. Where did you get the information that the group growing the fastest is anti-theists, "often violent and craving power"? -- Ed Huntress |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
Ignoramus21020 wrote:
On 2009-10-23, Buerste wrote: "Ignoramus21020" wrote in message ... On 2009-10-23, Bob Roberts wrote: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. Claiming "no religion" isn't the same as being an atheist. The claim in your subject field is incorrect. I agree. Some people do not believe in god, but do not consider themselves atheists. However, they still do not believe in god. i And, how many answered truthfully? I would not give any information about religion to strangers. Polls are less than meaningless and often have an agenda. Well, if you do not give an answer, then they probably will not count you. i His point is a common one. It's incorrect but still very common. People who have no training in statistics, polling, or social science research, often have the belief that the results obtained from polls are not valid. That can be true but when done correctly polling is extremely accurate. I don't know the methodology of this particular research but I've heard similar results before. As more and more people get higher educations they believe less and less in the teachings of the various religions. Faith is becoming less and less important these days. Thinking people would rather have facts and you don't get them from religion. Hawke |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
Let the Record show that "Buerste" on or about
Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:35:03 -0400 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: You are completely leaving out antitheists. They take the view that theism is dangerous and destructive. Their hatred of religion is proactive, often organized, often violent and craving power. THIS is the fastest growing group of non-religious and in many ways can be considered a "religion". Think of them as radical secularists bordering on fanatical terrorists. Muslim Jihadists, but without the holidays, or rewards. - pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
Let the Record show that TinLizziedl on or about
Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:45:43 -0700 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: The only religious precept I feel I need to know and follow: Treat others as you would want to be treated. As far as I'm concerned, 99% of the religious thinking mankind has dreamed up is hogwash. Designed to oppress and subjugate groups within the religion, and de-humanize groups outside of it. Belive as I do or be damned! Religion exists as a crutch, a tool, and a weapon. Unbelivers can be subjected to any punishment the religious care to mete out, for any reason. After all, since I believe in a supreme being and you don't or you call him/her/it by the wrong name, you're going to hell and I won't. Some faiths do. Some don't. I can tell you where I am certain God is to be found, but in all honesty, I can't really say where God is not. Who am I to tell Him where He can go or not go? "Get the spirit of peace, and you will save thousands." Am I an Athiest? Perhaps. Agnostic may be closer. Uncharitable towards "Sunday-morning Christians?" You bet! Nothing kills me like seening self-proclaimed Christians being hipocritical and not feeling any contrition about it. Their church is just another reason to skip work and have social gatherings. Welcome to the club! I have... well, not so much 'hatred' as 'sorrow'. "Damnyour eyes! you give Christianity a bad name!" I usually try not to associate with people who feel that their religion gives them the right to strip unbelievers of their rights. When you get down to it, this country was founded on the idea of freedom from religious oppression, and freedom of religion. The US was founded by religious nuts with guns. The Boston bay area was settled by those who wanted their own religious interpretation to reign supreme. Maryland was founded by English Roman Catholics, and Virginia by English "Catholics" (Anglicans), and of course, Philadelphia was founded by them oddballs, the Quakers. What is a religion? A system of beliefs that guides you in your moral and ethical transactions with the world around you. Not all transactions are easy and clear cut. Most religions want cookie-cutter solutions to problems. I would counter that it seems most religious want simplistic answers. Any religion worth its salt, may give a "simple" answer, but recognizes that what they've done is just pointed in the direction to go. (I recall the tale of the notorious thief who was told "Do not lie" and he would enter paradise. You can see the problems, and life changing choices he suddenly was going to have to make.) One size fits all. This has got to be the most incredibly asinine thing I have ever heard of! - pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
Let the Record show that Gunner Asch on
or about Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:32:51 -0700 did write/type or cause to appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. Does that mean they are becoming athiests, or simply not identifying with any organized religion. Or are not identified with any recognized religion. The tale is that Bishop Pollycarp was told to "adjure the atheists" - so he did. He waved at the assembled crowds and said "away with the atheists!" - pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough! |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:07:00 -0700, Rich Grise wrote: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:53:22 -0500, Ignoramus21020 wrote: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/US/10/21...rk.subway.ads/ Rafferty and De Dora cite the American Religious Identification Survey, released earlier this year, as evidence of a shift away from organized religion. Those checking "none" for religion rose from 8 percent of the population in 1990 to 15 percent in 2008, effectively making "no religion" the fastest growing religious identification in the United States. There's a HELL of a lot of difference between "no religion" and the religion of atheism. Cheers! Rich VERY true indeed! You have to be a dumb**** to think that atheism is a religion. Simply not believing in a god or gods is nothing like being a member of an organized religion. Opting out of religion isn't a religion. But then when all you are doing is repeating some line of crap you heard someone else say you can't expect it to be wisdom. Dumb yes, but wisdom no. Hawke |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
Buerste wrote:
"TinLizziedl" wrote in message k.net... The only religious precept I feel I need to know and follow: Treat others as you would want to be treated. As far as I'm concerned, 99% of the religious thinking mankind has dreamed up is hogwash. Designed to oppress and subjugate groups within the religion, and de-humanize groups outside of it. Belive as I do or be damned! Religion exists as a crutch, a tool, and a weapon. Unbelivers can be subjected to any punishment the religious care to mete out, for any reason. After all, since I believe in a supreme being and you don't or you call him/her/it by the wrong name, you're going to hell and I won't. Am I an Athiest? Perhaps. Agnostic may be closer. Uncharitable towards "Sunday-morning Christians?" You bet! Nothing kills me like seening self-proclaimed Christians being hipocritical and not feeling any contrition about it. Their church is just another reason to skip work and have social gatherings. I usually try not to associate with people who feel that their religion gives them the right to strip unbelievers of their rights. When you get down to it, this country was founded on the idea of freedom from religious oppression, and freedom of religion. What is a religion? A system of beliefs that guides you in your moral and ethical transactions with the world around you. Not all transactions are easy and clear cut. Most religions want cookie-cutter solutions to problems. One size fits all. This has got to be the most incredibly asinine thing I have ever heard of! -- Tin Lizzie "Elephant: A mouse built to government specifications."-Lazarus Long You are not an atheist, you are an antitheist. Atheists don't carry the hate baggage. Thanks for the clarification. Now I know I am an atheist and an antitheist. I don't believe in gods either singular or plural. In addition, I am vehemently anti religion. But only because I see religion as one of the primary reasons for man's inhumanity to man. Other than the military I see no organization more responsible for the deaths of so many innocent people than organized religion. I hope the survey is correct and the trend of more people believing like me continues. The world will be a much safer place and better if they do. Hawke |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... "Buerste" wrote in message ... "Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... snip Atheism means "without gods." The more common kind of atheist today, sometimes called the scientific atheist, is one who doesn't believe in gods because he doesn't think there is sufficient evidence in favor of gods. Only the most extreme atheists, sometimes called the "strong" atheists, assert that they have sufficient reason to believe that gods positively do not exist. Lots of people who think they're agnostics actually are atheists by any sophisticated definition. They haven't seen evidence to believe in gods with anything like assurance; they won't assert that there is a god or gods. That's a variety of atheist -- someone who is "without gods." An agnostic -- a term revived and re-defined by T.H. Huxley over a century ago -- is one who believes that the existence of gods is unknowable. Not "unknown," but unknowable, as a point of ontological philosophy. Huxley and the others who re-coined the term were interested in the ontological proofs of the existence or non-existence of things. Very few people who think of themselves as "agnostics" even know what the term really means. They think is just means "I don't know." If you don't know, you just don't know. You're neither an agnostic nor an atheist. You just...don't know. g But calling atheism a religion is actually kind of dumb. Most modern atheists make their claims based on evidentiary principles -- the version of "science" they learned in school. They haven't seen the evidence, so they are "without gods." What we call religion usually is the practice of theism, and theism is a belief that doesn't require scientific evidence. You may find a few atheists who are faith-based, like theists, but by no means does the typical "scientific" theist think that way. They're more like scientists who don't believe in ghosts or life after death, because they haven't seen any evidence that they really exist. -- Ed Huntress You are completely leaving out antitheists. Not to mention a dozen or so other flavors of belief, some of which are sub-categories of the big ones, and some of which -- such as gnostics -- who are off on their own. They take the view that theism is dangerous and destructive. Their hatred of religion is proactive, often organized, often violent and craving power. THIS is the fastest growing group of non-religious and in many ways can be considered a "religion". Think of them as radical secularists bordering on fanatical terrorists. I know of no evidence that vehement anti-theists are the fasted growing group of non-religious. In my experience, the fastest growing group is of formerly religious people who just gave it all up as superstition. Where did you get the information that the group growing the fastest is anti-theists, "often violent and craving power"? -- Ed Huntress You've GOT to be kidding! |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
"Hawke" wrote in message ... Buerste wrote: "TinLizziedl" wrote in message k.net... The only religious precept I feel I need to know and follow: Treat others as you would want to be treated. As far as I'm concerned, 99% of the religious thinking mankind has dreamed up is hogwash. Designed to oppress and subjugate groups within the religion, and de-humanize groups outside of it. Belive as I do or be damned! Religion exists as a crutch, a tool, and a weapon. Unbelivers can be subjected to any punishment the religious care to mete out, for any reason. After all, since I believe in a supreme being and you don't or you call him/her/it by the wrong name, you're going to hell and I won't. Am I an Athiest? Perhaps. Agnostic may be closer. Uncharitable towards "Sunday-morning Christians?" You bet! Nothing kills me like seening self-proclaimed Christians being hipocritical and not feeling any contrition about it. Their church is just another reason to skip work and have social gatherings. I usually try not to associate with people who feel that their religion gives them the right to strip unbelievers of their rights. When you get down to it, this country was founded on the idea of freedom from religious oppression, and freedom of religion. What is a religion? A system of beliefs that guides you in your moral and ethical transactions with the world around you. Not all transactions are easy and clear cut. Most religions want cookie-cutter solutions to problems. One size fits all. This has got to be the most incredibly asinine thing I have ever heard of! -- Tin Lizzie "Elephant: A mouse built to government specifications."-Lazarus Long You are not an atheist, you are an antitheist. Atheists don't carry the hate baggage. Thanks for the clarification. Now I know I am an atheist and an antitheist. I don't believe in gods either singular or plural. In addition, I am vehemently anti religion. But only because I see religion as one of the primary reasons for man's inhumanity to man. Other than the military I see no organization more responsible for the deaths of so many innocent people than organized religion. I hope the survey is correct and the trend of more people believing like me continues. The world will be a much safer place and better if they do. Hawke What's the difference between somebody forcing their beliefs in a (G)god(s) on others or you guys forcing your anti-belief on others? Same thing, except of course you are "Right" in your belief and everyone in disagreement is wrong. |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
"Buerste" wrote in message ... "Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... "Buerste" wrote in message ... "Ed Huntress" wrote in message ... snip Atheism means "without gods." The more common kind of atheist today, sometimes called the scientific atheist, is one who doesn't believe in gods because he doesn't think there is sufficient evidence in favor of gods. Only the most extreme atheists, sometimes called the "strong" atheists, assert that they have sufficient reason to believe that gods positively do not exist. Lots of people who think they're agnostics actually are atheists by any sophisticated definition. They haven't seen evidence to believe in gods with anything like assurance; they won't assert that there is a god or gods. That's a variety of atheist -- someone who is "without gods." An agnostic -- a term revived and re-defined by T.H. Huxley over a century ago -- is one who believes that the existence of gods is unknowable. Not "unknown," but unknowable, as a point of ontological philosophy. Huxley and the others who re-coined the term were interested in the ontological proofs of the existence or non-existence of things. Very few people who think of themselves as "agnostics" even know what the term really means. They think is just means "I don't know." If you don't know, you just don't know. You're neither an agnostic nor an atheist. You just...don't know. g But calling atheism a religion is actually kind of dumb. Most modern atheists make their claims based on evidentiary principles -- the version of "science" they learned in school. They haven't seen the evidence, so they are "without gods." What we call religion usually is the practice of theism, and theism is a belief that doesn't require scientific evidence. You may find a few atheists who are faith-based, like theists, but by no means does the typical "scientific" theist think that way. They're more like scientists who don't believe in ghosts or life after death, because they haven't seen any evidence that they really exist. -- Ed Huntress You are completely leaving out antitheists. Not to mention a dozen or so other flavors of belief, some of which are sub-categories of the big ones, and some of which -- such as gnostics -- who are off on their own. They take the view that theism is dangerous and destructive. Their hatred of religion is proactive, often organized, often violent and craving power. THIS is the fastest growing group of non-religious and in many ways can be considered a "religion". Think of them as radical secularists bordering on fanatical terrorists. I know of no evidence that vehement anti-theists are the fasted growing group of non-religious. In my experience, the fastest growing group is of formerly religious people who just gave it all up as superstition. Where did you get the information that the group growing the fastest is anti-theists, "often violent and craving power"? -- Ed Huntress You've GOT to be kidding! I rarely joke without letting you know that I'm joking. This is not a joke. If you have some evidence to support what you're saying, let's hear it. One would think that violent anti-theists, if they were the "fastest growing group" of the non-religious, would be noticeable among a group that's grown in numbers by 20,000,000 people over the last 18 years. -- Ed Huntress |
Atheism the fastest growing religious identification
"Hawke" wrote in message ... Faith is becoming less and less important these days. Thinking people would rather have facts and you don't get them from religion. Hawke Of course not. There are no facts to get. Religion is faith based, certainly contrived by man to dominate his fellow man. Follow the money and it's real obvious why religion exists. Harold (the agnostic) |
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