Anybody here play with this kind of cutter? What kind of water pressures
does it take? How is the nozzle shaped internally? What kind of thickness
can you cut? What kind of volume of water does it move?

Bob La Londe wrote:
Anybody here play with this kind of cutter? What kind of water pressures
does it take? How is the nozzle shaped internally? What kind of thickness
can you cut? What kind of volume of water does it move?



Typical units use about 40,000 to 50,000 PSI, and maybe half a
gallon/minute. The water is loaded with garnet grit to do the actual
cutting. I watched a demo of cutting 1/2" diameter holes through a 4"
block of Inconel, which was really quite impressive. It took maybe 2
minutes for each hole.

Jon

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Bob La Londe wrote:
Anybody here play with this kind of cutter? What kind of water pressures
does it take? How is the nozzle shaped internally? What kind of
thickness can you cut? What kind of volume of water does it move?



Typical units use about 40,000 to 50,000 PSI, and maybe half a
gallon/minute. The water is loaded with garnet grit to do the actual
cutting. I watched a demo of cutting 1/2" diameter holes through a 4"
block of Inconel, which was really quite impressive. It took maybe 2
minutes for each hole.

Yeah, that's the kind of pressure I am seeing too. Looks like there is no
poor man's DIY setup for that either.

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Bob La Londe wrote:
Anybody here play with this kind of cutter? What kind of water pressures
does it take? How is the nozzle shaped internally? What kind of
thickness can you cut? What kind of volume of water does it move?



Typical units use about 40,000 to 50,000 PSI, and maybe half a
gallon/minute. The water is loaded with garnet grit to do the actual
cutting. I watched a demo of cutting 1/2" diameter holes through a 4"
block of Inconel, which was really quite impressive. It took maybe 2
minutes for each hole.

Yeah, that's the kind of pressure I am seeing too. Looks like there is no
poor man's DIY setup for that either.

You can use a normal pressure washer pump (1,500-5,000 PSI) to make a
poor man's non abrasive water jet cutter... just like they use for
cutting cakes and similar in some bakery facilities. I'm not sure how
much use there is for a home CNC water jet cake cutter however.

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

Bob La Londe wrote:

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Bob La Londe wrote:
Anybody here play with this kind of cutter? What kind of water
pressures
does it take? How is the nozzle shaped internally? What kind of
thickness can you cut? What kind of volume of water does it move?



Typical units use about 40,000 to 50,000 PSI, and maybe half a
gallon/minute. The water is loaded with garnet grit to do the actual
cutting. I watched a demo of cutting 1/2" diameter holes through a 4"
block of Inconel, which was really quite impressive. It took maybe 2
minutes for each hole.

Yeah, that's the kind of pressure I am seeing too. Looks like there is
no
poor man's DIY setup for that either.

You can use a normal pressure washer pump (1,500-5,000 PSI) to make a
poor man's non abrasive water jet cutter... just like they use for
cutting cakes and similar in some bakery facilities. I'm not sure how
much use there is for a home CNC water jet cake cutter however.

It looks like more effort than it would be worth. I covered non-traditional
machining for _American Machinist_ a few decades ago and I remember the cake
slicers that would also cut metal. Amazing.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

It looks like more effort than it would be worth. I covered non-traditional
machining for _American Machinist_ a few decades ago and I remember the cake
slicers that would also cut metal. Amazing.

I know Sara Lee uses waterjet to cut some of their offerings.

Wes

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Bob La Londe wrote:
Anybody here play with this kind of cutter? What kind of water
pressures does it take? How is the nozzle shaped internally? What kind
of thickness can you cut? What kind of volume of water does it move?



Typical units use about 40,000 to 50,000 PSI, and maybe half a
gallon/minute. The water is loaded with garnet grit to do the actual
cutting. I watched a demo of cutting 1/2" diameter holes through a 4"
block of Inconel, which was really quite impressive. It took maybe 2
minutes for each hole.

Yeah, that's the kind of pressure I am seeing too. Looks like there is no
poor man's DIY setup for that either.

I have worked around a number of water jet machines, for both cutting and
blasting, nothing about them are cheap in any way. Maintenance on those 50k
PSI pumps can be brutal and filtration of the waste water expensive. IIRC,
our machines had to use deionized water.

"Tim" wrote:

IIRC,
our machines had to use deionized water.

I heard a horror story where a facility put in a reverse osmosis system to take all
impurites out of the feed water. Then they started having even more problems. Really
pure water attacks the alloying elements in the plumbing.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Tim" wrote:

IIRC,
our machines had to use deionized water.

I heard a horror story where a facility put in a reverse osmosis system to
take all
impurites out of the feed water. Then they started having even more
problems. Really
pure water attacks the alloying elements in the plumbing.

It may have been taking out the iimpurities, or it may have been a pH effect
from the process. Some kinds of "distilled" water are slightly acid.

So is rainwater. I understand that the latter is the result of picking up
carbon dioxide from the atmosphere on the way down, and forming a very weak
solution of carbonic acid. But I got that second-hand.

--
Ed Huntress

I find the pure water - attacks ? I don't think so.

Chlorine and such will. H2O is stable. If they have
electric current flowing in the pipes - possible - it can
break down H2O into hydrogen gas and oxygen gas.
The hydrogen will attack steel. The oxygen will attack
almost anything.

I bet they had a mixed iron and copper system and did themselves
in without using current breaks - plastic joints.

Martin

Wes wrote:
"Tim" wrote:

IIRC,
our machines had to use deionized water.

I heard a horror story where a facility put in a reverse osmosis system to take all
impurites out of the feed water. Then they started having even more problems. Really
pure water attacks the alloying elements in the plumbing.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Bob La Londe wrote:
Anybody here play with this kind of cutter? What kind of water pressures
does it take? How is the nozzle shaped internally? What kind of
thickness can you cut? What kind of volume of water does it move?



Typical units use about 40,000 to 50,000 PSI, and maybe half a
gallon/minute. The water is loaded with garnet grit to do the actual
cutting. I watched a demo of cutting 1/2" diameter holes through a 4"
block of Inconel, which was really quite impressive. It took maybe 2
minutes for each hole.

Jon

Today's commercial WJCs use garnet, but it's interesting to note that the
early experiments, and some of the early commercial units, could do some
amazing cutting with water alone. In fact, I remember one company that I
reported on that sold the same model to a company that was slicing Sarah Lee
chocolate cakes and, in the building next door, to one that cut
cement-reinforced slag-fiber ("rock wool") insulation panels.

You can cut steel with plain water, but it's very slow. I haven't kept up
but I think that all of the commercial units designed for cutting metal now
use abrasive grit. Still, the ability to cut with plain water is a read
head-shaker, IMO.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Bob La Londe wrote:
Anybody here play with this kind of cutter? What kind of water
pressures does it take? How is the nozzle shaped internally? What kind
of thickness can you cut? What kind of volume of water does it move?



Typical units use about 40,000 to 50,000 PSI, and maybe half a
gallon/minute. The water is loaded with garnet grit to do the actual
cutting. I watched a demo of cutting 1/2" diameter holes through a 4"
block of Inconel, which was really quite impressive. It took maybe 2
minutes for each hole.

Jon

Today's commercial WJCs use garnet, but it's interesting to note that the
early experiments, and some of the early commercial units, could do some
amazing cutting with water alone. In fact, I remember one company that I
reported on that sold the same model to a company that was slicing Sarah
Lee chocolate cakes and, in the building next door, to one that cut
cement-reinforced slag-fiber ("rock wool") insulation panels.

You can cut steel with plain water, but it's very slow. I haven't kept up
but I think that all of the commercial units designed for cutting metal
now use abrasive grit. Still, the ability to cut with plain water is a
read head-shaker, IMO.

I was actually thinking of stone. Specifically granite, for a non
traditional idea, but it looks impractical to DIY and its way to expensive
to have done. Granite is cheap. Cut granite is very expensive. I was
hoping to be able to make cuts up to 3-4 feet thick. Looks like I either
need a $50K machine or to spend the rest of my life on one project. Neither
is palatable so this idea will have to pass for now.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Bob La Londe wrote:
Anybody here play with this kind of cutter? What kind of water
pressures does it take? How is the nozzle shaped internally? What
kind of thickness can you cut? What kind of volume of water does it
move?



Typical units use about 40,000 to 50,000 PSI, and maybe half a
gallon/minute. The water is loaded with garnet grit to do the actual
cutting. I watched a demo of cutting 1/2" diameter holes through a 4"
block of Inconel, which was really quite impressive. It took maybe 2
minutes for each hole.

Jon

Today's commercial WJCs use garnet, but it's interesting to note that the
early experiments, and some of the early commercial units, could do some
amazing cutting with water alone. In fact, I remember one company that I
reported on that sold the same model to a company that was slicing Sarah
Lee chocolate cakes and, in the building next door, to one that cut
cement-reinforced slag-fiber ("rock wool") insulation panels.

You can cut steel with plain water, but it's very slow. I haven't kept up
but I think that all of the commercial units designed for cutting metal
now use abrasive grit. Still, the ability to cut with plain water is a
read head-shaker, IMO.

I was actually thinking of stone. Specifically granite, for a non
traditional idea, but it looks impractical to DIY and its way to expensive
to have done. Granite is cheap. Cut granite is very expensive. I was
hoping to be able to make cuts up to 3-4 feet thick. Looks like I either
need a $50K machine or to spend the rest of my life on one project.
Neither is palatable so this idea will have to pass for now.

(rough cuts would have been satisfactory. This is not for a counter top or
something like that. Think bigger. A lot bigger.)

On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:04:10 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...

I was actually thinking of stone. Specifically granite, for a non
traditional idea, but it looks impractical to DIY and its way to expensive
to have done. Granite is cheap. Cut granite is very expensive. I was
hoping to be able to make cuts up to 3-4 feet thick. Looks like I either
need a $50K machine or to spend the rest of my life on one project.
Neither is palatable so this idea will have to pass for now.

(rough cuts would have been satisfactory. This is not for a counter top or
something like that. Think bigger. A lot bigger.)

Menhirs?

Joe

Bob La Londe wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Bob La Londe wrote:
Anybody here play with this kind of cutter? What kind of water
pressures does it take? How is the nozzle shaped internally? What
kind of thickness can you cut? What kind of volume of water does
it move?



Typical units use about 40,000 to 50,000 PSI, and maybe half a
gallon/minute. The water is loaded with garnet grit to do the
actual cutting. I watched a demo of cutting 1/2" diameter holes
through a 4" block of Inconel, which was really quite impressive.
It took maybe 2 minutes for each hole.

Jon

Today's commercial WJCs use garnet, but it's interesting to note that
the early experiments, and some of the early commercial units, could
do some amazing cutting with water alone. In fact, I remember one
company that I reported on that sold the same model to a company that
was slicing Sarah Lee chocolate cakes and, in the building next door,
to one that cut cement-reinforced slag-fiber ("rock wool") insulation
panels.

You can cut steel with plain water, but it's very slow. I haven't
kept up but I think that all of the commercial units designed for
cutting metal now use abrasive grit. Still, the ability to cut with
plain water is a read head-shaker, IMO.

I was actually thinking of stone. Specifically granite, for a non
traditional idea, but it looks impractical to DIY and its way to
expensive to have done. Granite is cheap. Cut granite is very
expensive. I was hoping to be able to make cuts up to 3-4 feet
thick. Looks like I either need a $50K machine or to spend the rest
of my life on one project. Neither is palatable so this idea will
have to pass for now.
Can you not use a wire saw something like used commercially. IIRC the
old ones, before diamond coated blades, used a soft metal wire, like
copper, and grit was fed into the cut and embedded into the soft blade
like a lap to cut the harder material. The blade is often a continuous
loop like a bandsaw. A program I saw showed that the Egyptians used the
process but the saw was a hand powered reciprocating saw.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...


I was actually thinking of stone. Specifically granite, for a non
traditional idea, but it looks impractical to DIY and its way to expensive
to have done. Granite is cheap. Cut granite is very expensive. I was
hoping to be able to make cuts up to 3-4 feet thick. Looks like I either
need a $50K machine or to spend the rest of my life on one project.
Neither is palatable so this idea will have to pass for now.

to cut stone all you need is steel wire, some pulleys, something to move it,
and some grit - take your time

Bob La Londe wrote:

I was actually thinking of stone. Specifically granite, for a non
traditional idea, but it looks impractical to DIY and its way to
expensive to have done. Granite is cheap. Cut granite is very
expensive. I was hoping to be able to make cuts up to 3-4 feet thick.
Looks like I either need a $50K machine or to spend the rest of my life
on one project. Neither is palatable so this idea will have to pass for
now.

You can drill a starter hole with a diamond core drill, although 3-4
FEET is going to be slow going. Once through, you can use aircraft
cable (braid) with oil or water and diamond grit to saw it. I think
that's what the pros use.

Jon

On Aug 28, 10:33*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Jon Elson" wrote in message

...

Bob La Londe wrote:
Anybody here play with this kind of cutter? *What kind of water pressures
does it take? *How is the nozzle shaped internally? *What kind of
thickness can you cut? *What kind of volume of water does it move?

Typical units use about 40,000 to 50,000 PSI, and maybe half a
gallon/minute. *The water is loaded with garnet grit to do the actual
cutting. *I watched a demo of cutting 1/2" diameter holes through a 4"
block of Inconel, which was really quite impressive. *It took maybe 2
minutes for each hole.

Jon

Today's commercial WJCs use garnet, but it's interesting to note that the
early experiments, and some of the early commercial units, could do some
amazing cutting with water alone. In fact, I remember one company that I
reported on that sold the same model to a company that was slicing Sarah Lee
chocolate cakes and, in the building next door, to one that cut
cement-reinforced slag-fiber ("rock wool") insulation panels.

You can cut steel with plain water, but it's very slow. I haven't kept up
but I think that all of the commercial units designed for cutting metal now
use abrasive grit. Still, the ability to cut with plain water is a read
head-shaker, IMO.

--
Ed Huntress

Several years ago I was doing some research for investment purposes
into a company that was using high pressure LIQUID Nitrogen for jet
cutting. Electronic circuit boards and meat cutting were some of the
uses they were investigating at that time. I filled up my flash drive
where I was storing all that information and put it away. I probably
should dig through it again and see what kind of progress they have
made.

I think it was the University of Nevada Las Vegas that was leading the
research into this along with one of the Idaho Universities. The Idaho
team was experimenting with it for cutting metals IIRC.

I can think of some interesting possibilites.
DL

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

In fact, I remember one company that I
reported on that sold the same model to a company that was slicing Sarah Lee
chocolate cakes and, in the building next door, to one that cut
cement-reinforced slag-fiber ("rock wool") insulation panels.

Should have read all the thread before I responded to your earlier post. Was the company
Ingersol-Rand?

You can cut steel with plain water, but it's very slow. I haven't kept up
but I think that all of the commercial units designed for cutting metal now
use abrasive grit. Still, the ability to cut with plain water is a read
head-shaker, IMO.

Well there is that Grand Canyon

Seriously, One of the apps I had was profiling low density fiberglass headliner shells.
The waterjet nexts needed periodic repair (welding), cut the same outline 50,000 times,
you will cut though the deflectors in places.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

In fact, I remember one company that I
reported on that sold the same model to a company that was slicing Sarah
Lee
chocolate cakes and, in the building next door, to one that cut
cement-reinforced slag-fiber ("rock wool") insulation panels.

Should have read all the thread before I responded to your earlier post.
Was the company
Ingersol-Rand?

It may have been; that sounds familiar. But it was too long ago for me to
remember.


You can cut steel with plain water, but it's very slow. I haven't kept up
but I think that all of the commercial units designed for cutting metal
now
use abrasive grit. Still, the ability to cut with plain water is a read
head-shaker, IMO.

Well there is that Grand Canyon

Seriously, One of the apps I had was profiling low density fiberglass
headliner shells.
The waterjet nexts needed periodic repair (welding), cut the same outline
50,000 times,
you will cut though the deflectors in places.

Wes

I'm not sure I followed that last paragraph. 'You want to read it again and
see if it's you or it's me?

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

I'm not sure I followed that last paragraph. 'You want to read it again and
see if it's you or it's me?

nexts = nests. My bad on spelling. The nest fit the show side of headliner and used
vacuum to hold the part to it, the cut lines had SS blast deflectors to protect the rest
of the nest.

The portions of the profile that I had to dwell on to get a sharp corner tended to have
their blast deflectors wear though soonest. At first we made new ones, later we just
welded them up, quicker and easier.

Wes

"Bob La Londe" writes:

Anybody here play with this kind of cutter? What kind of water pressures
does it take? How is the nozzle shaped internally? What kind of thickness
can you cut? What kind of volume of water does it move?

I knew of one used to cut a building apart, piece by piece. Slab,
pillar, I-beam, rebar, pipe.... no problem.

I'm not aware they used any grit, just lots of water.







--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

"Bob La Londe" wrote:

Anybody here play with this kind of cutter? What kind of water pressures
does it take? How is the nozzle shaped internally? What kind of thickness
can you cut? What kind of volume of water does it move?


I worked with non abrasive waterjet for a number of years, uses the same type of
intensifier and those things are very expensive. My stuff operated at the 50-55,000 psi
range.

I was using diamond or saphire (cheap) nozzles with a 0.005" - 0.007" orifice.

Plumbing uses special connectors where the pipe is threaded for a left hand ferrule that
is compressed by a right hand nut, the end is coned at ~45 degrees and the connectors have
a mating cone about a degree different to cause cause an interferance fit. Plumbing tends
to be 304 or 316 depending.

http://www.autoclave.com/ To see fittings.

http://www.highpressure.com/valves_index.asp?ID=3 They were less expensive than Autoclave
back in the late 90's.

Intensifier piston rod is solid carbide on an Ingersol streamline and check valves have a
short life. The best swivel is a coil of tubing. They make swivels but they tend to go
for a grand+ or so and eventually fail.

Oh, there is no such thing as a minor leak in a waterjet system. The biggest issue I had
with production is they liked to keep running when ever a leak started, that water cuts
everything, you got to be on top of repairs or it will cost you even more.

Most of my comments apply to abrasive jet, that has a system to introduce garnet iirc into
the water after it exits the orifice.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller