"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
:

Got a clue? The NEC was created by large insurance companies, soon
after the electrification of the United States started. There was
little
information, and no testing of hardware, or methods. The NFPA set
the
first fire safety standards. The NEC soon followed. The NFPA
publishes
the NEC.

If your wiring doesn't meet their requirements, the insurance
doesn't
pay off. Local code can be tighter than the NEC, but not ignore any
aspect of it. If a town has lower standards, there is no insurance
available. That means no one will loan money to buy, build or
remodel
existing buildings. Soon, the town is dead, because businesses
can't
afford to stay in business without insurance.


http://www.nec2k.com/electrical_code.html
http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/pdf...sStandards.pdf



Mike, it's not true that the NEC has been universally adopted. Just as
is the case with life safety/fire codes, there are at least two major
electrical standards, and neither is legally binding. They are
guidelines which _most_ authorities adopt, either explicitly or by
reference into local ordinances. But not all states or municipalities
follow them. Some states and cities have written their own codes from
scratch. They may cover the same subject matter as NEC, but don't
depend upon it.

Also, there's no legal basis for "local codes can be tighter than NEC,
but not ignore any aspect of it." The NEC and it's similar "sister"
standards are not laws.

If your building passes local and/or state code requirements, and you
are issued a CO on the basis of passing those inspections, you can
insure a structure.

LLoyd



So, Lloyd, tell me how these are different from the NEC, other that
the way the rules are sorted. please show any that allow lowere
standards than the NEC, so everyone can do lower grade work. I never
said the NEC was law. I said they are CODES.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
:

I never
said the NEC was law. I said they are CODES.

You also said local code "could not ignore any aspect of it", as if
to say they were bound by it. They are not.

If you ever study the NEC, you'll notice there's a LOT of gobbledygoop
in there about standards so high that MOST local codes ignore those
things for residential construction.

I'll hold. IF the structure was wired under permit, and passed the
inspection, the insurance companies CANNOT legally refuse to pay on
that basis. They might do it, but the homeowner would have recourse.

Your comment about the barn was non-sequitor. Almost all Ag buildings
are treated differently than residences for insurance purposes. If
your residence is on the same property as the barn, for instance, you
might be able to cover it for household contents (as in, "stored in
the barn"), but you'll almost certainly need a separate policy just
for the barn, if you wish to insure its whole value.

This part, I know well. I have an 8000sq.ft. barn on the same 20
acres on which I live. It's "A1" (ag) property. For yet another
$1200 per year, I can insure the barn. Elsewise, it's worth $8,000,
according to the insurance folks.

LLoyd

In article , "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
:

I never
said the NEC was law. I said they are CODES.

You also said local code "could not ignore any aspect of it", as if
to say they were bound by it. They are not.

If you ever study the NEC, you'll notice there's a LOT of gobbledygoop
in there about standards so high that MOST local codes ignore those
things for residential construction.

The Code itself also specifically says that the local authority may waive
provisions of the Code. [Article 90-4]

I'll hold. IF the structure was wired under permit, and passed the
inspection, the insurance companies CANNOT legally refuse to pay on
that basis. They might do it, but the homeowner would have recourse.

And if the law didn't require a permit, a license, an inspection, or Code
compliance, the insurance company can't deny the claim based on any of those
factors either.

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:18:28 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
:

Got a clue? The NEC was created by large insurance companies, soon
after the electrification of the United States started. There was
little
information, and no testing of hardware, or methods. The NFPA set
the
first fire safety standards. The NEC soon followed. The NFPA
publishes
the NEC.

If your wiring doesn't meet their requirements, the insurance
doesn't
pay off. Local code can be tighter than the NEC, but not ignore any
aspect of it. If a town has lower standards, there is no insurance
available. That means no one will loan money to buy, build or
remodel
existing buildings. Soon, the town is dead, because businesses
can't
afford to stay in business without insurance.


http://www.nec2k.com/electrical_code.html
http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/pdf...sStandards.pdf



Mike, it's not true that the NEC has been universally adopted. Just as
is the case with life safety/fire codes, there are at least two major
electrical standards, and neither is legally binding. They are
guidelines which _most_ authorities adopt, either explicitly or by
reference into local ordinances. But not all states or municipalities
follow them. Some states and cities have written their own codes from
scratch. They may cover the same subject matter as NEC, but don't
depend upon it.

Also, there's no legal basis for "local codes can be tighter than NEC,
but not ignore any aspect of it." The NEC and it's similar "sister"
standards are not laws.

If your building passes local and/or state code requirements, and you
are issued a CO on the basis of passing those inspections, you can
insure a structure.

LLoyd



So, Lloyd, tell me how these are different from the NEC, other that
the way the rules are sorted. please show any that allow lowere
standards than the NEC, so everyone can do lower grade work. I never
said the NEC was law. I said they are CODES.

And the codes are adopted by laws. If a LAW says a CODE must be
followed, the CODE has the "strength" of LAW

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 12:23:51 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
:

I never
said the NEC was law. I said they are CODES.

You also said local code "could not ignore any aspect of it", as if
to say they were bound by it. They are not.

If you ever study the NEC, you'll notice there's a LOT of gobbledygoop
in there about standards so high that MOST local codes ignore those
things for residential construction.

I'll hold. IF the structure was wired under permit, and passed the
inspection, the insurance companies CANNOT legally refuse to pay on
that basis. They might do it, but the homeowner would have recourse.

The insurance company can refuse to write business in certain areas -
and they DO.
They also can and do refuse to insure certain classes of buildings, or
buildings used for certain uses, or residences left vacant - etc.

And if they insure something based on a lie, they can revoke coverage
if they find out about it ( ie - the house is left unoccupied for 6
months)

Your comment about the barn was non-sequitor. Almost all Ag buildings
are treated differently than residences for insurance purposes. If
your residence is on the same property as the barn, for instance, you
might be able to cover it for household contents (as in, "stored in
the barn"), but you'll almost certainly need a separate policy just
for the barn, if you wish to insure its whole value.

This part, I know well. I have an 8000sq.ft. barn on the same 20
acres on which I live. It's "A1" (ag) property. For yet another
$1200 per year, I can insure the barn. Elsewise, it's worth $8,000,
according to the insurance folks.

LLoyd

On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:22:19 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" fired this volley in
:

I never
said the NEC was law. I said they are CODES.

You also said local code "could not ignore any aspect of it", as if
to say they were bound by it. They are not.

If you ever study the NEC, you'll notice there's a LOT of gobbledygoop
in there about standards so high that MOST local codes ignore those
things for residential construction.

The Code itself also specifically says that the local authority may waive
provisions of the Code. [Article 90-4]

I'll hold. IF the structure was wired under permit, and passed the
inspection, the insurance companies CANNOT legally refuse to pay on
that basis. They might do it, but the homeowner would have recourse.

And if the law didn't require a permit, a license, an inspection, or Code
compliance, the insurance company can't deny the claim based on any of those
factors either.


Again - they CAN refuse to insure it.
Once insured they MAY have trouble getting out of paying UNLESS the
coverage was aquired by fraudulent means (lied about meeting code when
asked)

In article , wrote:

And the codes are adopted by laws. If a LAW says a CODE must be
followed, the CODE has the "strength" of LAW

And if the Code has not been adopted as law -- as is the case in a number of
places -- it has no legal force.